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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Hm... what if during the first round we took the other blue teams' intel, and offered it to their red teams in exchange for their half-words; if they don't attack us the following round, they get their half-words back.
 
Cariyaga said:
Hm... what if during the first round we took the other blue teams' intel, and offered it to their red teams in exchange for their half-words; if they don't attack us the following round, they get their half-words back.
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Then you're betting on the word halves ending up being worth more than the 75-185 points they'll gain from turning the documents in. Too risky, not enough information.

All that would do is keep the blue teams from attacking us. Which is moderately concerning but not THAT concerning. I think it's better just to deny them the 75 to 185 points they'd get from taking the documents and then beat them up and take their word halves in the second round.
 
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eaglejarl said:
You have superstrong pangolins on your team. If you don't care about accuracy, have one of them do it. For that matter, Keiko can throw them high enough that they won't affect anyone at ground level.
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Hmm, maybe I am a bit miscalibrated on ninja throwing strength then.

Let me double-check my intuitions:
  • Energy Content
    • Charcoal/Coal: 29.3 MJ/kg (source)
      • Effectively wood with the non-volatile elements removed, meaning no energy wasted on heating water and other non-flammable components of wood.
    • Hardwood (total): 14.9 MJ/kg (source)
    • Hardwood (macerated): 12 MJ/kg
      • My assumption is that it is significantly easier to extract energy from very finely powdered wood than logs. Most of the saved energy would come from not having to heat the water and other byproducts as much to propagate the combustion.
      • There's a decent chance this would be higher than the Hardwood total number, since we would skip over much of the non-volatile elements of the wood. I am, however, choosing to be conservative.
    • Hardwood (extractable): 10.4 MJ/kg (source)
    • TNT: 4.184 MJ/kg (source)
      • TNT holds its own oxygen and is optimized for stability as well as explosive power. Our energy content for the other fuel numbers above assumes that the fuel is burned with exposure to air and the oxygen in it, which the macerator will provide.
  • Macerator Storage Size: 100 kg
  • In Megatons of TNT per Macerator:
    • Megatons/Macerator = (x :: MJ/kg of substance) * (100 :: kg of substance/Macerator) * (1 / 4.184 :: kg of TNT/MJ) * (10-9​ :: Megatons / kg of TNT) = x * 2.4 * 10-8​
    • Coal: 7 * 10-7 ​Megatons/Macerator
    • Hardwood (total): 3.56 * 10-7 ​Megatons/Macerator
    • Hardwood (macerated): 2.86 * 10-7 ​Megatons/Macerator
    • Hardwood (extractable): 2.48 * 10-7 ​Megatons/Macerator
  • ~2 lbs per kg
  • Fema chart (source page 4-11):
    • Now that chart is meant for damage given buildings, glass and the like, but it's a good first pass?
Basically we are aiming for around 400-600 ft directly above the enemy team, while staying about 500-800 ft away from the enemy's location on the ground. This will fuck the enemy up without destroying the building or risking deadly injuries.

@eaglejarl: Does this sound reasonable for Keiko or the pangolin without a rod, atlatl, or the like?
 
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eaglejarl said:
Y'all have not yet noticed the *extremely important* negative thing. You really want to.
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I feel like this has to be related to the -1000 point penalty, given earlier comments that a mere 75 point different would not count as 'extremely important'.

One thought along that vein I had that I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned - in the defending round, we have to properly simulate a T&I facility or get the -1000 penalty. If we all bail from our facility to beat up other teams, can we really be said to be 'simulating a T&I facility', given that Mist proctors (who all hate us) will be making that judgement?
 
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Cariyaga said:
Hm... what if during the first round we took the other blue teams' intel, and offered it to their red teams in exchange for their half-words; if they don't attack us the following round, they get their half-words back.
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The problem is that this isn't an environment that allows for negotiations. Nobody can be trusted to stop fighting and negotiate in good faith except maybe Team Asuma, and for all we know they're teamed up with people who won't cooperate.


Also, this notion of only attacking blue teams is madness. We need to take down as many others as possible. And we can't guarantee that red teams won't attack us while we're attacking blue teams.

It's us versus pretty much everyone.
 
Epicrandom said:
I feel like this has to be related to the -1000 point penalty, given earlier comments that a mere 75 point different would not count as 'extremely important'.

One thought along that vein I had that I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned - in the defending round, we have to properly simulate a T&I facility or get the -1000 penalty. If we all bail from our facility to beat up other teams, can we really be said to be 'simulating a T&I facility', given that Mist proctors (who all hate us) will be making that judgement?
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The plan was never to bail from the facility wholesale. Thats not possible. We would need to leave a squad of 3-6 to guard it to prevent ninja fuckery
 
MMKII said:
So Shin has our word half?

Guess we'll have to get it back, can't get DQed from the exam for failing Event 1 afterall
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Word halves are extremely difficult to fake. If memory serves, they're written on special paper with special glittery green ink. If we had the means to replicate someone's word half, we would have been doing that since the exams started.
 
Epicrandom said:
I feel like this has to be related to the -1000 point penalty, given earlier comments that a mere 75 point different would not count as 'extremely important'.

One thought along that vein I had that I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned - in the defending round, we have to properly simulate a T&I facility or get the -1000 penalty. If we all bail from our facility to beat up other teams, can we really be said to be 'simulating a T&I facility', given that Mist proctors (who all hate us) will be making that judgement?
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I will also note there is already precedent for this - remember the team that got booted for locking up their proctor and going out to assassinate other proctors in the third event?
 
Enjou said:
The problem is that this isn't an environment that allows for negotiations. Nobody can be trusted to stop fighting and negotiate in good faith except maybe Team Asuma, and for all we know they're teamed up with people who won't cooperate.


Also, this notion of only attacking blue teams is madness. We need to take down as many others as possible. And we can't guarantee that red teams won't attack us while we're attacking blue teams.

It's us versus pretty much everyone.
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Attacking red teams in round one makes it likely we'll have to work with the people we hurt once we get to the second round, which fucks our chance of passing the second round. I'm not saying we absolutely shouldn't attack red teams in round one, but destroying the documents of other blue teams denies other red teams the chance to get ANY positive points
 
MMKII said:
The plan was never to bail from the facility wholesale. Thats not possible. We would need to leave a squad of 3-6 to guard it to prevent ninja fuckery
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That's somewhat reassuring - but even if only some of our members go off to beat up other teams, it may still be hard to justify their actions as 'simulating a T&I' facility.

I can imagine the proctor now - "one genius team failed to simulate a T&I facility by sending away half their squad on an irrelevant and entirely separate mission".
 
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Inferno Vulpix said:
Word halves are extremely difficult to fake. If memory serves, they're written on special paper with special glittery green ink. If we had the means to replicate someone's word half, we would have been doing that since the exams started.
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They're kept in a one use storage scroll. From 156.3

OliWhail said:
She took it, placed it into a cloth sack along with the remainder of his paperwork, and withdrew a seal from one of her jacket pockets. "This is a modified storage seal," she said, "made to only store and unstore once before ceasing its function. It will be unstored at the final verification of your success in the first task." A moment later, the bag was gone.
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Inferno Vulpix said:
Word halves are extremely difficult to fake. If memory serves, they're written on special paper with special glittery green ink. If we had the means to replicate someone's word half, we would have been doing that since the exams started.
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Oh, if thats the case then then we probably have it. I was thinking he could do some Iron Nerve bullshit but nevermind then.

18scsc said:
Attacking red teams in round one makes it likely we'll have to work with the people we hurt once we get to the second round, which fucks our chance of passing the second round. I'm not saying we absolutely shouldn't attack red teams in round one, but destroying the documents of other blue teams denies other red teams the chance to get ANY positive points
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I think this is unavoidable tbh.

We can guarantee this Round that no one from our Team gets negative points with our strat.

We can potentially guarantee that our team next round gets the same deal.

Now, attacking Blue as Blue might be very fucking difficult. It might be better to get our teammates from Round 1 to defect to aid our defense, in the name of Greater Fuck Those Guys camaraderie.


Epicrandom said:
That's somewhat reassuring - but even if only some of our members go off to beat up other teams, it may still be hard to justify their actions as 'simulating a T&I' facility.
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Ugh. My head. I hope this isnt the case. That would be quite difficult to deal with.

18scsc said:
They're kept in a one use storage scroll. From 156.3

"She took it, placed it into a cloth sack along with the remainder of his paperwork, and withdrew a seal from one of her jacket pockets. "This is a modified storage seal," she said, "made to only store and "unstore once before ceasing its function. It will be unstored at the final verification of your success in the first task." A moment later, the bag was gone.
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Thats the proctor's half, not ours.
 
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Epicrandom said:
I feel like this has to be related to the -1000 point penalty, given earlier comments that a mere 75 point different would not count as 'extremely important'.

One thought along that vein I had that I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned - in the defending round, we have to properly simulate a T&I facility or get the -1000 penalty. If we all bail from our facility to beat up other teams, can we really be said to be 'simulating a T&I facility', given that Mist proctors (who all hate us) will be making that judgement?
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But the proctors would have to be on site to make the judgment call first.

In any case, I am less worried about that particular situation because it can only occur when we are the Blue Team. If we request an update break after Day 1, we should be able to react to any issues Blue Teams had with ruling - either from information gained while roaming around in Day 1 as Red Team or during the Day 2 break where we can exchange information with Team Asuma.

So lets focus on stuff on that can screw us right now on Day 1 as Red Team. Having reread the rules again, it seems that the -1k penalty only affects Blue Teams but I also note that nowhere does the proctor say that Blue Teams have to stay inside the building at all. We had assumed that the Blue Team is part of T&I itself, i.e. people who work there instead of assigned guards, implying they would have to stay in there to fit the simulation. But that does not seem to be the case.

eaglejarl said:
"The intention of the event is to simulate an attack on an actual T&I facility. As such, the blue team must act consistently with that simulation—they must leave the documents reasonably accessible and the building sufficiently easy to move around in that it would be usable for a daily office routine. Therefore, blue team is not allowed to completely fill the corridors with traps, barricade any rooms, destroy the key to the lockbox, take the documents out of the lockbox, take either one out of the building, or in any other way violate the normal functionality of a T&I facility."

"Along the lines of 'properly simulating a T&I facility'," he continued, "you may not inter the documents or the lockbox in massive slabs of rock, bury them in the ground, or otherwise render them inaccessible to ninja who would be working in the facility. You can move the lockbox to some random part of the building, create decoys, add traps to the lockbox, and/or have one member of the team carry the key on their person. Failure to abide by these rules costs you all your positive points for the round and a one thousand point penalty. Proctors will decide if you have abided by the rules.
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So how would our plans change if every Red and Blue Team is able to roam around with one person on the Blue Team having the key on his person?
 
MMKII said:
Now, attacking Blue as Blue might be very fucking difficult. It might be better to get our teammates from Round 1 to defect to aid our defense, in the name of Greater Fuck Those Guys camaraderie.
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I don't disagree but another thing they can do, if they've basically given up any chance of getting into the tournament, is to just destroy their own team's documents in round two.
 
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Hmm, what if our opponent blue team has Team Asuma on it? What do we do then? Hell how do we deal with Team Asuma in general?

There is also the fact that our plan falls apart super rapidly if we get hurt at all.
 
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eaglejarl said:
Any action intended to cause another team to inflict collateral damage will be treated as your team causing a fatality: disqualification for all teams from your village, forfeiture of your village's bond, and ejection from the Land of Water.
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...I mean...I guess this is part of the collateral damage rules and wasn't specified as being kept...
 
Obviously, another issue which is probably more important than ~200 points is if Velorien has agreed to write a Lore Update, which is always optional, or if he's instead going to write plot.

That said, that would basically be QMs purposefully trying to make us lose with how hard EJ's been pushing us to wait until the Sunday update to do punching, so it's probably not that.
 
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