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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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faflec said:
[multiple solid examples proving that misterators do not block LOS, presented in a calm, reasonable, and non-accusatory tone for which this QM is grateful]
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Well, crap. Somehow I had it in mind that it blocked LOS for about a minute. Don't know where I got that from. Blerg, let me talk with the others.

Sentient Tree said:
Could Hazou, Noburi, or Keiko realize that Jiraiya is likely to be getting a headache from all of this?
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Seems reasonable to me, but it's @Velorien's update. Could be a funny scene to have Keiko meet with Jiraiya on the Seventh Path (assuming she does that instead of just sending a written report) and say "Here, sir, you should probably drink this before hearing my report."



In other news, I am unilaterally and without talking to the other QMs declaring a test policy for my next update. This does not apply to the voting cycle that closes tomorrow Wednesday, it applies to the one that closes on Saturday:

In addition to whatever XP the plan is worth, I will award bonus XP based on the plan length. Specifically:

max(0, 5 - floor(plan length in words / 200))​

This means if the plan is 0-199 words then you get +5 XP, 200-399 you get +4, etc.

Word count will be determined based on Google Docs opinion.

This will be a one-time experiment to see if this produces results that are better from both player and QM side. It might or might not get repeated and if it is then it might or might not be based on the same formula. All details are in flux.

The idea is to give players control over the plan but incentivize brevity. Y'all can decide what the appropriate tradeoff is between the extra XP and the need for detail in order to prevent undesirable outcomes.

Please offer feedback on this idea. If there is serious hate for it among the playerbase then I will rescind the test.
 
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Sentient Tree said:
So, we were caused by a retrocausal sealing failure? The explosion was actually the result of a failed infusion (because we foolishly didn't put enough XP into sealing), which caused a large explosion AND created us in the past?

Hmmm... perhaps in the original timeline Hazou caused the sealing failure after he got back from the exams, and we were originally trying to sabotage the exams so that he wouldn't cause the sealing failure?
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eaglejarl said:
Well, crap. Somehow I had it in mind that it blocked LOS for about a minute. Don't know where I got that from. Blerg, let me talk with the others.


Seems reasonable to me, but it's @Velorien's update. Could be a funny scene to have Keiko meet with Jiraiya on the Seventh Path (assuming she does that instead of just sending a written report) and say "Here, sir, you should probably drink this before hearing my report."



In other news, I am unilaterally and without talking to the other QMs declaring a test policy for my next update. This does not apply to the voting cycle that closes tomorrow, it applies to the one that closes on Saturday:

In addition to whatever XP the plan is worth, I will award bonus XP based on the plan length. Specifically:

5 - floor(plan length in words / 200)​

This means if the plan is 0-199 words then you get +5 XP, 200-399 you get +4, etc.

Word count will be determined based on Google Docs opinion.

This will be a one-time experiment to see if this produces results that are better from both player and QM side. It might or might not get repeated and if it is then it might or might not be based on the same formula. All details are in flux.

The idea is to give players control over the plan but incentivize brevity. Y'all can decide what the appropriate tradeoff is between the extra XP and the need for detail in order to prevent undesirable outcomes.

Please offer feedback on this idea. If there is serious hate for it among the playerbase then I will rescind the test.
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This seems like a tentative good idea.

EDIT: Go away TeX.
 
eaglejarl said:
Well, crap. Somehow I had it in mind that it blocked LOS for about a minute. Don't know where I got that from. Blerg, let me talk with the others.


Seems reasonable to me, but it's @Velorien's update. Could be a funny scene to have Keiko meet with Jiraiya on the Seventh Path (assuming she does that instead of just sending a written report) and say "Here, sir, you should probably drink this before hearing my report."



In other news, I am unilaterally and without talking to the other QMs declaring a test policy for my next update. This does not apply to the voting cycle that closes tomorrow, it applies to the one that closes on Saturday:

In addition to whatever XP the plan is worth, I will award bonus XP based on the plan length. Specifically:

5 - floor(plan length in words / 200)​

This means if the plan is 0-199 words then you get +5 XP, 200-399 you get +4, etc.

Word count will be determined based on Google Docs opinion.

This will be a one-time experiment to see if this produces results that are better from both player and QM side. It might or might not get repeated and if it is then it might or might not be based on the same formula. All details are in flux.

The idea is to give players control over the plan but incentivize brevity. Y'all can decide what the appropriate tradeoff is between the extra XP and the need for detail in order to prevent undesirable outcomes.

Please offer feedback on this idea. If there is serious hate for it among the playerbase then I will rescind the test.
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I like it.

Regarding tea, we could also have her leave the tea with a written debriefing, possibly inside a storage scroll to keep it warm (the tea, not the debriefing).
 
Velorien said:
Honestly, the same thing had occurred to me, but I think I'd miss him as a player too much.
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You know, I would still be pretty active as a QM, given that I still care about these characters and would still be screaming in Kagome. If anything it'd be even worse since I wouldn't always be allowed to say why I was screaming in Kagome.

Still, if the QMs want me as a player and also helping them, I could just act as a living Wiki. Give me drafts and/or ask me random questions about the upcoming update, and I can confirm stuff; that shouldn't give me too much information regarding my player activity while also helping with QM spoons.
eaglejarl said:
Word count will be determined based on Google Docs opinion.
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Hivemind: *typing* Google. Docs. Display. Negative. Word. Count.
 
eaglejarl said:
In other news, I am unilaterally and without talking to the other QMs declaring a test policy for my next update. This does not apply to the voting cycle that closes tomorrow, it applies to the one that closes on Saturday:

In addition to whatever XP the plan is worth, I will award bonus XP based on the plan length. Specifically:

5 - floor(plan length in words / 200)​
This means if the plan is 0-199 words then you get +5 XP, 200-399 you get +4, etc.

Word count will be determined based on Google Docs opinion.

This will be a one-time experiment to see if this produces results that are better from both player and QM side. It might or might not get repeated and if it is then it might or might not be based on the same formula. All details are in flux.

The idea is to give players control over the plan but incentivize brevity. Y'all can decide what the appropriate tradeoff is between the extra XP and the need for detail in order to prevent undesirable outcomes.

Please offer feedback on this idea. If there is serious hate for it among the playerbase then I will rescind the test.
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YES.gif

To provide bi-directional incentives, I will do my best to get punching voted in for every update of yours using this system.
 
faflec said:
You know, I would still be pretty active as a QM, given that I still care about these characters and would still be screaming in Kagome. If anything it'd be even worse since I wouldn't always be allowed to say why I was screaming in Kagome.

Still, if the QMs want me as a player and also helping them, I could just act as a living Wiki. Give me drafts and/or ask me random questions about the upcoming update, and I can confirm stuff; that shouldn't give me too much information regarding my player activity while also helping with QM spoons.
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This does seem like the best of both worlds.
 
Using XP to incentivize short plans sounds tentatively like a good idea to me, though a potential of 5 bonus XP per update has the potential to seriously Itachi us. If we average three updates per day and eek out 199 word plans to optimize XP gains, we're sitting somewhere between 15 and 20 XP per day. Timeskips, of course, also become discouraged under this model, which may create perverse incentives in planmaking.

A potential solution to the timeskip topic can be modeling the bonus XP as an XP-per-day thing. Something like ">1000 = +0XP per day, 500-999 = +1 XP per day, <500 = +2 XP per day". The first topic is just a matter of balancing numbers.
 
eaglejarl said:
Please offer feedback on this idea. If there is serious hate for it among the playerbase then I will rescind the test.
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I think that in general, seeking to change the incentive landscape as a mechanism to alter player behavior to make the quest more friendly/enjoyable for both players and QMs alike, is sound, practical, easy to implement, and also likely to have positive effects if well thought out.

I have reservations about using experience bonuses as such a mechanism, mostly because this more tightly couples player OOC action to things that will (if only cumulatively and over time) have an impact on the narrative.

I understand though that you don't really have many other knobs to tweak, so to speak. Ideally such a mechanism would have been baked into the quest structure at the start. I have actually given this a lot of thought myself for a quest I've been working on for the past year, and would be willing to share specifics of ideas in pm if you'd like.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Using XP to incentivize short plans sounds tentatively like a good idea to me, though a potential of 5 bonus XP per update has the potential to seriously Itachi us. If we average three updates per day and eek out 199 word plans to optimize XP gains, we're sitting somewhere between 15 and 20 XP per day. Timeskips, of course, also become discouraged under this model, which may create perverse incentives in planmaking.

A potential solution to the timeskip topic can be modeling the bonus XP as an XP-per-day thing. Something like ">1000 = +0XP per day, 500-999 = +1 XP per day, <500 = +2 XP per day". The first topic is just a matter of balancing numbers.
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XP is already modeled as per day thing.
 
faflec said:
You know, I would still be pretty active as a QM, given that I still care about these characters and would still be screaming in Kagome. If anything it'd be even worse since I wouldn't always be allowed to say why I was screaming in Kagome.

Still, if the QMs want me as a player and also helping them, I could just act as a living Wiki. Give me drafts and/or ask me random questions about the upcoming update, and I can confirm stuff; that shouldn't give me too much information regarding my player activity while also helping with QM spoons
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That is a very kind offer. Scheduling permitting, we might take you up on it.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Yes, but the bonus XP is presented as a per-update thing. If we get three updates of 5 bonus XP in one day, that's 15 XP and then our daily regular XP for a total somewhere around 18-19.
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Shikamaru: HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU THIS STRONG YOU WERE NOT THIS GOOD IN THE LAST EVENT

Team Uplift: We realized that –

Shikamaru: ???

Team Uplift: – in order to become stronger –

Shikamaru: whatthefuck.jpg

Team Uplift: –forget it, it wouldn't make sense to you anyway.
 
faflec said:
Shikamaru: HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU THIS STRONG YOU WERE NOT THIS GOOD IN THE LAST EVENT

Team Uplift: We realized that –

Shikamaru: ???

Team Uplift: – in order to become stronger –

Shikamaru: whatthefuck.jpg

Team Uplift: –forget it, it wouldn't make sense to you anyway.
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HAZOU: One hundred press ups, one hundred sit ups, and a ten mile run every day. But it will make you bald.
 
Heleor said:
Google docs allows embedding of images. Paste an image of the full plan!
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Attempts to cheat the test will result in negative XP awards. :p Play fair, people.

Inferno Vulpix said:
Using XP to incentivize short plans sounds tentatively like a good idea to me, though a potential of 5 bonus XP per update has the potential to seriously Itachi us. If we average three updates per day and eek out 199 word plans to optimize XP gains, we're sitting somewhere between 15 and 20 XP per day. Timeskips, of course, also become discouraged under this model, which may create perverse incentives in planmaking.

A potential solution to the timeskip topic can be modeling the bonus XP as an XP-per-day thing. Something like ">1000 = +0XP per day, 500-999 = +1 XP per day, <500 = +2 XP per day". The first topic is just a matter of balancing numbers.
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Good point. Okay, that's definitely something to consider if we keep doing this going forward. Thanks for pointing it out.

Vecht said:
I have actually given this a lot of thought myself for a quest I've been working on for the past year, and would be willing to share specifics of ideas in pm if you'd like.
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That would be great, thanks.

Vecht said:
fwiw I thought this was intentional
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For the first run I want it to be a purely positive-or-neutral. For later iterations, going negative might be an option.
 
Velorien said:
That is a very kind offer. Scheduling permitting, we might take you up on it.
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Meta: Could we do something like a two-step plan selection, where we vote on the best plan, voting closes, QMs read the plan and point out first impressions of consequences that the thread have missed (modulo HDK) / things that seem unclear, or just restate the goals of the plan as they understand them, and we have 24h to clarify/fix up? I don't know if it would have helped with the last updates, but perhaps there would be less post-update controversy?

ETA: I think that could work because AFAICT the way planning works is we make some plans, people vote as we iterate over the plans, and usually it's clear >24h before the update which plan is going to win. Having a cut-off of 'ok now just answer these questions' could help focus on that one plan.

Also, thread-wise: can we move away from the 'Shika/Keiko are 'real' geniuses, not like Hazou' narrative? Hazou is a genius; he/we have blindspots, but we know Keiko couldn't do what we do, and I doubt Nara could. We don't see Nara fail much, but that's in part because he sticks to low-stakes, safe strategies... and has a much more supportive background.
 
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