Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Vecht
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- Snarksville, Snarkland
[blatant trolling]
Those can be so hard to spot, though. How are we supposed to know that's happened?
Do you have any other advice on picking up on hints from QMs?[/blatant trolling]
Pairing? Seems to be the wrong word if we're aiming for a triad.
At least.
Ideally we should aim for our polycule to encompass one member of every major clan (the more clan heirs the better).
No, not every Leaf clan.
Every clan.
How else shall we bring peace to the world?
- Location
- Potato land
Well, if the find ourselves in the worst harem timeline, at least we'll always have nukes.
Huh? It's going to take around 1.5 updates to get through it, it seems like. That's more than usual, but no cause for immediate alarm. The plan is relatively focused as well, it just has us doing lots of preparation for the event.
Huh? It's going to take around 1.5 updates to get through it, it seems like. That's more than usual, but no cause for immediate alarm. The plan is relatively focused as well, it just has us doing lots of preparation for the event.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This next update will be the third one to touch this plan.
- Location
- Yes.
- Location
- Potato land
I don't know how things are on your end in terms of figuring out what the results of our actions are and how much time that takes, but I wasn't counting the CfG update in my tally.
Are we being too overbearing with our plans? If it's consistently a problem for you guys, please let us know what we can do to make it better. I'm pretty sure we could've cut out a lot of detail from the current winning plan, if the sheer amount of text is a problem. Cutting down on the actions would've been more difficult for this particular plan, but I'm sure we would've managed it as well.
There's a certain tension between whether you all* want this to be run as a play-by-post RPG or as a more generic Quest. A play-by-post RPG is just what is says; run very much like a tabletop roleplaying game where players are expected to make a lot of detailed choices and by explicit about what they want to do. Play-by-posts tend to be incredibly time-consuming as the GMs have to constantly stop the action and consult the players as to what they want to do next.
Many quests are run as much different beasts. There the QM(s) will take control of the character for extended periods of time, generally following either very light guidance or no guidance at all from the players until they get to a decision point they find interesting.
If the QMs want shorter plans, my advice is to put a word limit on plans. That will force use to include only the most important high points and leave the rest up to QM interpretation. Maybe also pair it with a demand to plan for a certain period as in, "What do you want to do between now and the beginning of the Event?"
*You all being both players and QMs.
Many quests are run as much different beasts. There the QM(s) will take control of the character for extended periods of time, generally following either very light guidance or no guidance at all from the players until they get to a decision point they find interesting.
If the QMs want shorter plans, my advice is to put a word limit on plans. That will force use to include only the most important high points and leave the rest up to QM interpretation. Maybe also pair it with a demand to plan for a certain period as in, "What do you want to do between now and the beginning of the Event?"
*You all being both players and QMs.
- Location
- Potato land
Part of the tension is that we are awarded more XP for good plans. And a good plan is detailed, and often includes contingencies for the most likely failure modes. It doesn't just describe what to do and in what order, but how to do it well and how to adjust if things go off the rails. You know this, given that you've written most of our plans since the quest restarted; they've all been pretty big and they have served us very well, and have been complimented by the QMs more than once. I also recall there being an experiment in short plans around the second half of the Minami arc that the players were dissatisfied with.
Maybe we should try to self-limit to, say, 1k words, and see how it goes? For reference, our current plan is nearly 4k words long.
I don't think anyone necessarily wants a play-by-post RPG, and the decision-density of the Chuunin Exam is abnormal for this quest; for most of its running, plans would cover much larger timeframes than the exam's apparent average of 1-2 days. I expect our next plan to cover the majority, if not all of the event.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oops, you guys are right. I was thinking that @Velorien 's most recent update was part of this plan but it was not. Okay, only 1.5 updates.
I'm fine with the way things are going, for the record.
I'm fine with the way things are going, for the record.
@OliWhail went over them today and they should be very close to finished. I think they just need final check at this point.
zap lunch
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- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Been thinking about how Mist might survive/win any upcoming wars and pretty sure I've stumbled on to a scenario that is very bad for us.
Each member of the Kurosawa clan has the ability to draw any seal blank they see. Potentially every day that has passed since Ren obtained the hat she could have had every member of the clan producing the most powerful seals that can be produced in mist. The sealmasters they are producing designs from probably aren't quite on Jiraiya's level but they are probably close. So instead of facing a Mist force off balance due to the huge losses they've taken, we are facing incredibly heavily equipped seal tech equipped super soldiers. Every day that mist has to recuperate they could be producing 1000's of seals
Each member of the Kurosawa clan has the ability to draw any seal blank they see. Potentially every day that has passed since Ren obtained the hat she could have had every member of the clan producing the most powerful seals that can be produced in mist. The sealmasters they are producing designs from probably aren't quite on Jiraiya's level but they are probably close. So instead of facing a Mist force off balance due to the huge losses they've taken, we are facing incredibly heavily equipped seal tech equipped super soldiers. Every day that mist has to recuperate they could be producing 1000's of seals
- Location
- USA
That goes against the majority within the Kurosawa clan who view drawing seals as a waste of time that could be better put to use on the front line of battle. It would put a lot of tension within the clan that could lead to more instability within the Leadership of Mist. Speculations on the stability of Mist would also hurt so unless our Aunt could get every single person to agree with changing to seal production without even a little bit of grumbling we would not see this sort of tactic from Mist.
The best indicator for such a tactic would be to view the paper and ink markets within the region. Which I would imagine has already been put into place a long time ago at the start of the invention of sealing. Much like how major countries within our world view the production and sales of strategic resources used in the manufacturing process of weapons such as bombs.
The best indicator for such a tactic would be to view the paper and ink markets within the region. Which I would imagine has already been put into place a long time ago at the start of the invention of sealing. Much like how major countries within our world view the production and sales of strategic resources used in the manufacturing process of weapons such as bombs.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Ideologies are tricky like that. Even when you realize that what you're doing is clearly inefficient and suboptimal, you are heavily disinclined to toss it aside if you have any other option (or, at least, if you believe you have any other option). Largely, this stems from the way people try to reach the absolute optimal outcome, which involves getting everything they want without trading away anything major.
For the Kurosawa in particular, they are enamored with the idea of, as they put it, holding the line. If you were in a rules-lawyering mood you could argue to them that they can 'hold the line' better by supporting the village through seals, but the Kurosawa aren't taking 'hold the line' as a rule to be followed but an attempt to convey a concept that they already intuitively understand, which appears to be something along the lines of 'we punch out our enemies and keep everyone safe with our awesome Taijutsu'. In absence of rules-lawyering, dropping the secret and turning the clan to seal production would be in no uncertain terms the abandonment of the ideal they hold so dear.
Sure, Mist is in a very sticky situation, but they aren't so desperate as to become convinced that there is no way to have Mist come out ahead without abandoning the line. Maybe that's stupid of them since they'd be in a better position by throwing away their ideals, but it's stupid in a way that means even a reasonable and competent person like Ren being in charge doesn't just wipe away the intense desire to not abandon the ideals they hold so dear.
For the Kurosawa in particular, they are enamored with the idea of, as they put it, holding the line. If you were in a rules-lawyering mood you could argue to them that they can 'hold the line' better by supporting the village through seals, but the Kurosawa aren't taking 'hold the line' as a rule to be followed but an attempt to convey a concept that they already intuitively understand, which appears to be something along the lines of 'we punch out our enemies and keep everyone safe with our awesome Taijutsu'. In absence of rules-lawyering, dropping the secret and turning the clan to seal production would be in no uncertain terms the abandonment of the ideal they hold so dear.
Sure, Mist is in a very sticky situation, but they aren't so desperate as to become convinced that there is no way to have Mist come out ahead without abandoning the line. Maybe that's stupid of them since they'd be in a better position by throwing away their ideals, but it's stupid in a way that means even a reasonable and competent person like Ren being in charge doesn't just wipe away the intense desire to not abandon the ideals they hold so dear.
- Location
- Yes.
And Leaf especially would be checking this now that they know the Kurosawa Clan are all potential sealmasters.
Why would he be the most famous one in the world? I guess being the apprentice of the guy who invented Skywalkers is pretty prestigious, but still.
EDIT: Putting all operational security questions aside, think about how it would sound if Hazou ever tries going around and telling people, "Oh yeah, Skywalkers were totally my idea. My sealing sensei just made it work is all." What a punk he'd sound like! Who would take that seriously?
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Co-inventor.
He could never claim any degree of credit and have it be taken seriously. See my edit above. He still can't even infuse a Skywalker seal, and he's going to claim to be co-inventor?
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- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Maybe getting all of our information about the Kurosawa clan ideology from one 12 year old who has virtually no interaction with any clan members in good standing might not be the safest idea to base our clans military positioning on.
He came up with a useful and specific implementation schematic/idea/etc that allows skywalking even though the possibility was staring people right in the face. So, yes, he's a co-inventor.
This is not the same thing as merely having an 'idea', which is almost worthless.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Yeah, the Skywalkers doesn't really reflect on Hazou's skill as a sealmaster, especially since he can't even infuse them despite having Kagome's research notes and Kagome's guidance. His idea did have a lot of value in that it brought the problem from a prohibitively difficult challenge to a couple months of Kagome's research, which while not trivial was distinctly possible.
Hazou didn't make Skywalkers, couldn't without Kagome, but by the same token Kagome couldn't have made Skywlakers without Hazou's idea. I don't think it's really appropriate to describe it as X% Hazou's and Y% Kagome's, because then we'd also need to credit whoever taught Kagome (or else he wouldn't be able to make them), the people who made those centuries of seal theory (or else no one could), and so on and so forth. Many things needed to happen for Skywalkers to happen, and just as Kagome's actually designing them was necessary and can't be discarded Hazou's idea was necessary for Kagome to make them and thus can't be discarded either. Condensing it into 'one person is exclusively responsible for this invention and no one else can claim any of the credit' doesn't really match reality in this case.
He can believe whatever he wants in his heart of hearts, but I don't see him getting a lot of public credit here. Admittedly I take a lot of perverse pleasure in the idea that Hazou will get robbed out of credit for work done. Yeah, that's right, suffer. Feel the indignity of having your contribution ignored. Boil in resentment, my little genin. Ah-hahhahahaha!
I don't care what's actually true. I'm talking about public credit and fame, and I see Hazou getting ignored more than a woman researcher in a group of tenured male professors. You're damn right it doesn't match reality... but no one will care. He'll never be anything more than a footnote in history, at least as far as Skywalkers are concerned.
Jiraiya and Nara's treatment of Hazō suggested otherwise, and I doubt Kagome would be happy to claim all the credit for the work.