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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Sampatrick said:
We will have no proof and by saying this we also reveal one of our major clan secrets.
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Mist cares about it way way way more than we do. And either way, we have to be willing to go through with it or the threat is meaningless.

e:

Lailoken said:
I still think that the plan should be some variant of, "Throw lots of boom in direction of Waka, move into area cleared by boom, repeat". The first Waka would be Noburi, who would be warned to duck underwater before the boom hit. If we can figure out a signal we might spare a moment to tell Akane to burn the fog off the entire field. We need to get out of this soup now and take out the enemy making it not long after. We have stacks of explosives. We can afford to use them as a general prophylactic for each step.
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I feel like you and a few others are underestimating how much time this would take to do in the context of combat. We can throw at most a single weapon a round, and that prevents us from attacking anyone we find that round.

Once we take out Aiko, the mist is to our advantage, and Noburi is seeking out Aiko currently, and is at our 2 o'clock position requesting help.
 
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Sampatrick said:
So what happens if we use blatantly lethal weapons and end up killing somebody in this fight and then none of the Mist, Cloud, or Rock people do the same? So far, we don't actually know for sure that any of the enemy ninja are using lethal force, we just have conjecture that they are probably intending to kill us.
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Cariyaga said:
We can get away with killing Mist nin, for what it's worth. We have "Your nin used mist drain on us, if you make an issue of what our ninja did, one of your major clan secrets is out"
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Remember our dead team leader? If they aren't planning to leave witnesses they may not care about whether we know about mist drain.
 
I'll point out that the secret is pretty much already out - plenty of witnesses on the Leaf side, and Shikamaru figured it out pretty quickly. Others will likely figure it out too. If Neji knows then the Hyuuga clan will know at the very least.

But it's still a secret valuable to Nobori, so he'd be disadvantaged if the secret got beyond Leaf too. That would make it not quite as good of a card to play, especially since Leaf clans will have no motivation to keep the secret after he dies (of causes natural or ninja) anyways. IMO the only thing we could possibly extort from it is the knowledge of how to do all the procedures that are necessary to make the Wakahisa bloodline fully functional, so that Noburi can pass his bloodline in full and ensure the Goketsu clan has the bloodline - that would mean that while some Leaf clans might know about mist draining, they'd still be inclined to keep it to themselves since they'd be protecting a Leaf clan's secrets rather than just a Mist clan's one.
 
Enjou said:
I'll point out that the secret is pretty much already out - plenty of witnesses on the Leaf side, and Shikamaru figured it out pretty quickly. Others will likely figure it out too. If Neji knows then the Hyuuga clan will know at the very least.

But it's still a secret valuable to Nobori, so he'd be disadvantaged if the secret got beyond Leaf too. That would make it not quite as good of a card to play, especially since Leaf clans will have no motivation to keep the secret after he dies (of causes natural or ninja) anyways. IMO the only thing we could possibly extort from it is the knowledge of how to do all the procedures that are necessary to make the Wakahisa bloodline fully functional, so that Noburi can pass his bloodline in full and ensure the Goketsu clan has the bloodline - that would mean that while some Leaf clans might know about mist draining, they'd still be inclined to keep it to themselves since they'd be protecting a Leaf clan's secrets rather than just a Mist clan's one.
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I object to the notion that there is no law allowing the hokage to disallow dissemination of politically-advantageous information. It might require the go-ahead of his jounin commander (and wouldn't you know that that was Shikaku Nara?), or something, but to me it seems utterly ridiculous that there would be no way for a kage to keep information quiet that could lead to massive advantage.
 
@eaglejarl @OliWhail @Velorien

I haven't read through most of the comments, but I notice I am also confused. I don't have a lot of time, so I'm going to be rude and ping the ops without reading the whole conversation.

We got to pick the ground our fort was on, so we should have been able to set up sightlines and use Noburu as an additional sensor. We also have access to some excellent sensors. I am surprised they managed to sneak up on us so effectively that we didn't have time to communicate a plan. Do you roll for that? Are they just closing really fast? Did we just pick really poor terrain to build our defenses on? Did we really need to spell out "find high-ground with clear sight-lines" in the plan? I kind of thought it was implies by "build a fort".

I am also surprised that the chakra costs to build the fort weren't dealt with, since we had like 4 teams worth of chakra regen available to us. Noburu being able to redistribute chakra by touch isn't a secret, as far as I know. It's common knowledge that his clan can do that. I don't really understand how we were tapped for chakra with the number of warm bodies we had available to us.

I'm also a bit surprised it ended up being so ineffectual, but it was clear there was a mis-communication there. I suspect if you took a second look at building the fort, and the presumptions you put into it, you'd find that it would be easy to build a fort that's a lot more useful than the one that ended up getting implemented. I suppose that's the problem with not over-specifying plans. I also feel like as soon as we don't over-specify the default state of everyone gets set to incompetent, and that's unfortunate because it creates a lot of work.

So let me ask you this, if you were going to create the plan for that fort, how would you do it? I'm not expecting a lot of effort, just a few seconds on what kind of qualities you'd expect the fort to have.
 
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faflec said:
Alright, that brings me to a complicated question:

I'm writing an Action Plan right now and I want Hazou to run (to Noburi's position), wait for him to activate his Banshee Slayers, and then activate his Earbusters. If what you're saying is true, Hazou will have to wait until Noburi has taken his turn (and activated his Banshee Slayers), and then move to Noburi (to see him activating his Banshee Slayers)? But then Hazou wouldn't be able to see Noburi activating his Banshees since he has to move in order to get to Noburi to see him activate them...?

Would Hazou just magically arrive as Noburi's fighting and sees him activate his Banshee Slayers?
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Let me talk to the others about this and get back to you.

Langevin said:
Thanks, @eaglejarl! Could you give us a sense as to how far away Noburi's voice was, relative to the Lightning AoE that just happened and the location that Hazou thinks the enemy Wakahisa's at? (since all appear to be in the same general direction, 2 o'clock to "forward and right" to 12 o'clock)
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He's not far away -- close enough that you could sprint there on your Move action next round and still attack. Probably something like 20m?

The lightning attack you're less sure of. It doesn't make *that* much noise when it appears and the fog tends to muffle and confuse things. Probably a little east of him?


faflec said:
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Shit I forgot another question: If Noburi spends his Combat Action on Vampiric Dew (also, does Vampiric Dew count as a Combat Action?), does he still give MC combat bonus for Hazou with Water Whip (assuming it's active)?
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I think Noburi would continue to contribute at his WW value. I'd need to check with the others though.

Cariyaga said:
So, here's what I'm thinking: Hazou doesn't chakra boost his Taijutsu (well, at least not fully), instead relying on Macerators and Roki.

Kei doesn't boost weapons, relying on explosives (use her judgement as to what level to use) which target Tac Move. If she had the chance to before engaging, go ahead and have Echolocation active for the first round.

Noburi goes full boost, uses Syrup Trap to slow enemies and calls out their location for Keiko (in code) to hit with A-rank explosives, which Hazou follows up.
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faflec said:
A Short Note on Chakra Usage:
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Note that you cannot directly control the others. If you link up with Noburi you can make this suggestion to him, but Keiko isn't with you.

faflec said:
Yell out: "Banshee on Longfish prepare!" as we approach.
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NB: Noburi's callsign is just 'Fish'.



traverseda said:
@eaglejarl @OliWhail @Velorien

I haven't read through most of the comments, but I notice I am also confused. I don't have a lot of time, so I'm going to be rude and ping the ops without reading the whole conversation.

We got to pick the ground our fort was on, so we should have been able to set up sightlines and use Noburu as an additional sensor. We also have access to some excellent sensors. I am surprised they managed to sneak up on us so effectively that we didn't have time to communicate a plan. Do you roll for that? Are they just closing really fast? Did we just pick really poor terrain to build our defenses on? Did we really need to spell out "find high-ground with clear sight-lines" in the plan? I kind of thought it was implies by "build a fort".

I am also surprised that the chakra costs to build the fort weren't dealt with, since we had like 4 teams worth of chakra regen available to us. Noburu being able to redistribute chakra by touch isn't a secret, as far as I know. It's common knowledge that his clan can do that. I don't really understand how we were tapped for chakra with the number of warm bodies we had available to us.

I'm also a bit surprised it ended up being so ineffectual, but it was clear there was a mis-communication there. I suspect if you took a second look at building the fort, and the presumptions you put into it, you'd find that it would be easy to build a fort that's a lot more useful than the one that ended up getting implemented. I suppose that's the problem with not over-specifying plans. I also feel like as soon as we don't over-specify the default state of everyone gets set to incompetent, and that's unfortunate because it creates a lot of work.

So let me ask you this, if you were going to create the plan for that fort, how would you do it? I'm not expecting a lot of effort, just a few seconds on what kind of qualities you'd expect the fort to have.
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First off, you're in a swamp so everything is pretty flat; there's no "high ground" to have, and not a lot of 'ground' in any case. Second, the only reason that I can see to build a fort in this situation is to keep the chakra beasts off, which is what I assumed you were going for. Forts are essentially useless against ninja unless they are way bigger and more complicated than anything you would have the chakra or time to build. Remember, ninja can walk across moats and straight up walls. The only use a fort of practical size for this situation has against ninja is that it breaks line of sight and thereby prevents genjutsu and targeted long-range attacks.

As to Noburi providing chakra rebalancing, he did. I made that clear. Note, however, that you built the fort before linking up with anyone else, meaning their chakra reserves were not available to you for building it, nor was there any certainty that you would have access to their regeneration so as to top off Noburi. Those two things restrict the amount of chakra that you could safely throw at the construction, since you couldn't be confident of recovering it. Even when the other teams did show up, they are unlikely to willingly donate major fractions of their chakra to projects that you didn't even talk to them about.


Since this point keeps coming up and my more measured responses have failed to settle it, I'll be more direct:

Many of the players apparently feel that we have somehow mistreated them by not taking the sole directive "build a fort" and magically turning it into an uber-defense that would prevent the enemy from intelligently using long-range abilities such as mist drain and lightning geysers. Those players are wrong. The fort was useful in that it let you sleep safe against chakra beasts, but that is all it was useful for. Furthermore, if the fort has / does not have characteristics that you do or don't like, that's on you. You gave us no direction on what you were building, why, or how. You did not check that it was even feasible, but you're upset that we did not take vague direction and do all the heavy lifting to turn it into something optimal. That's not the QMs' job. If you want a fort that is useful against ninja, then you need to figure out what that looks like and specify it for us. It doesn't need to be an actual drawn-out floorplan, but it does need to have more detail than "build a fort". It also needs to have some trivial math behind it to make sure that it's possible for you to build that. The math I did in my earlier post took me about thirty seconds and demonstrated that building anything more than the absolute minimum was impractical.
 
Real talk, though. Noburi can drain 72-120CP per round (3-5s), and Aiko is supposed to be better...whatever plan we do has to involve a) removing mist (explosives); and b) getting out of the water (MEW)

@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Are there any nearby trees, shrubs, or other solid objects out of the water we can stand on? I understand that we're under mist (and thus can't see very far) but we should have been able to get a general idea of what the location looked like from before.
 
eaglejarl said:
A faint breeze carried the scent of thunderstorms to Hazō's nose. Ahead and to his right, somewhere off in the fog, what was almost certainly another of the lightning pillars crackled into existence. A second later, a hopefully-unrelated scream came from behind him and to his left, only to be cut off in the middle.
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We could throw some AoE seal behind us, apparently one of the other two teams tried to enter the fort or if we are lucky both (Other mist team + stone) did. Maybe throw a banshee fucker behind us and hope we fuck up a whole team?
 
faflec said:
With the risk that it could hit one of our allies, which would be bad.
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I mean specifically towards the fortress, none of our allies should be near the place anymore. Granted it's possible that some of the others were slow and are behind us, but I assumed it's one of our enemies who ran into a trap. But I also forgot that we don't know where Akane and her team is...so could be them , fair point.
 
ContextBot said:
I mean specifically towards the fortress, none of our allies should be near the place anymore. Granted it's possible that some of the others were slow and are behind us, but I assumed it's one of our enemies who ran into a trap. But I also forgot that we don't know where Akane and her team is...so could be them , fair point.
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Into the fortress itself? I'd imagine that the teams would all know that nobody's in the fortress. Rock team probably has Living Roots so know nobody's there; Mist teams have Wakahisa or other ways to sense in mist; Cloud team is really accurate with those artillery shots so should have the ability to know nobody's there...
 
@eaglejarl

- Which code words did we establish with our allies (either in Leaf or during the time in the fort)?
- Did we share any seals?
- What did Haru and Sakura say when asked about their combat abilities (the non-secret ones people presumably share if they want to work together as a team)?
 
eaglejarl said:
but it does need to have more detail than "build a fort"
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For future references, spending half our budget on solid floors instead of using hammocks or shelve-floors was probably a bad move. We also don't need a ceiling. We need high walls for our ranged defenders, and choke-points/cover for our melee defenders. We need multiple entrances/exits.
 
Tomorrow's the deadline and we only have one action plan with one vote, which I considered too rigid for a confrontation that is largely unknown.
 
Yeah, it sucks, but we can't really do flexible plans without too much work, or people making dumb decisions. So I don't really see any way to do better, even in theory. At least for this class of problems.
 
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faflec said:
Real talk, though. Noburi can drain 72-120CP per round (3-5s), and Aiko is supposed to be better...whatever plan we do has to involve a) removing mist (explosives); and b) getting out of the water (MEW)
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Or it could involve knocking her out. I prefer that plan.
e:

faflec said:
Oh really? Damn.

Still, 24CP per round is nothing to sneeze at.
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Also, I'm pretty sure that 24 can only target one person, or is otherwise spread out between the targets.
 
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Kiba said:
Tomorrow's the deadline and we only have one action plan with one vote, which I considered too rigid for a confrontation that is largely unknown.
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I might put one up together, but still missing somewhat crucial info from the QMs to do so.
 
faflec said:
Here's a shitty Action Plan.

[X] Action Plan: War of the Blind

Part the First: Saving Noburi (Again)
This part ends when we have successfully incapacitated all active hostiles engaging Noburi.

Yell out: "Banshee on Longfish prepare!" as we approach.
  • We are basically saying: I'm activating an Earbuster on Noburi's (Longfish's) position, if you're there prep Banshee Slayers right now.
Round 1:
  • Move Action: Get to where we heard Noburi.
    • When we see Noburi, check to make sure he's not an imposter under Henge (read: is there a barrel/remains of one present?).
  • Quick Actions:
    • Activate personal Banshee Slayers.
  • Combat Action: Taijutsu punch whoever's giving Noburi trouble.
    • Focus on whatever enemy is closest to Noburi. Work together (KO one enemy before moving on to others).
Round 2-6 (?):
  • (Round 2 only) Quick Action: Activate an Earbuster seal.
  • Move and Combat Action: Get to and KO a nearby foe.
    • Combine Taijutsu and Water Whip.
    • Focus on any [capacitated] enemies within range, then TacMove to active hostiles farther away. Work together.
    • If unable to fight (due to having nobody in range):
      • Noburi: Vampiric Dew.
          • Active hostiles.
          • Hostiles engaged by allies.
          • Hostiles doing other stuff (e.g., Lighting Pillar Person).
      • Hazou: Throw an Earbuster-tagged kunai at a nearby foe.
    • Quick Actions:
      • Hazou: Only if he cannot Taijutsu punch a target this round.
        • Withdraw an Earbuster-tagged kunai.
        • Activate the [time-delayed] Earbuster.
      • Noburi: Maintain Water Whip.
Part the Second: Stupid Wakahisa (get RFP'd)
This part ends when we have successfully incapacitated Wakahisa Aiko and any active hostiles in her vicinity.

Yell out: "Banshee on bad Longfisher prepare!" as we approach.
  • We are basically saying: I'm activating an Earbuster on Aiko's (enemy Wakahisa's) position, if you're there prep Banshee Slayers right now.
Round 1:
  • Move Action: Get to Aiko. Use Noburi's Vampiric Dew as a guide.
  • Quick Actions:
    • Maintain jutsus (Water Whip).
  • Combat Action: KO Aiko.
    • Combine Taijutsu and Water Whip. Work together.
    • If unable to KO her (due to not being in range):
      • Noburi: Vampiric Dew.
          • Active hostiles.
          • Hostiles engaged by allies.
          • Hostiles doing other stuff (e.g., Lighting Pillar Person).
      • Hazou: Throw an Earbuster-tagged kunai at a nearby foe.
Round 2-6 (?):
  • (Round 2 only) Quick Action: Activate Earbuster seal.
  • Move and Combat Action: Get to and KO a nearby foe.
    • Combine Taijutsu and Water Whip.
        • Aiko.
        • Kani clan member.
        • Most competent active hostiles.
    • Focus on any [capacitated] enemies within range, then TacMove to active hostiles farther away. Work together.
    • If unable to fight (due to having nobody in range):
      • Noburi: Vampiric Dew.
          • Active hostiles.
          • Hostiles engaged by allies.
          • Hostiles doing other stuff (e.g., Lighting Pillar Person).
      • Hazou: Throw an Earbuster-tagged kunai at a nearby foe.
  • Quick Actions:
    • Hazou: Only if he cannot Taijutsu punch a target this round.
      • Withdraw an Earbuster-tagged kunai.
      • Activate the [time-delayed] Earbuster.
    • Noburi: Maintain Water Whip.
Part the Third: Regrouping (and Roflstomping)
This part ends when we have successfully incapacitated or otherwise routed all enemies.

Round 1:
  • Move Action: Get to our ally.
    • Priority onto whichever nearby ally is under the most pressure from hostiles.
    • If all nearby allies have grouped with us take down long-ranged artillery (e.g., Lightning Pillar Person).
  • Quick Actions:
    • Maintain jutsus (Water Whip).
  • Combat Action: KO enemies.
    • Prioritize the most competent active hostiles in the fight.
    • Combine our combat skills. Work together.
Round 2-6 (?):
  • Move and Combat Action: Get to and KO a nearby foe.
    • Prioritize the most competent active hostiles in the fight.
      • If Move Action fails use Combat Action on whatever enemy is in Close (Noburi: also Medium) with us.
    • Work together, in tandem with Noburi. Focus a target and take them down, then repeat.
    • Noburi can use Vampiric Dew if he's not in range of an enemy to KO.
Note: Once nearby enemies are defeated, return to Round 1 of this Part and repeat with other allies.

A Short Note on Chakra Usage:
  • Noburi is free to 100% chakra boost everything, since his bloodline allows him to replenish his chakra reserves without issue.
  • Hazou and other allies ought to:
    • Moderately boost TacMove (50% max chakra boost) during every round.
    • Fully boost combat (100% max chakra boost) IFF:
      • They are in range to actually use those combat die.
      • They are fighting a priority target (e.g., Aiko).
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So, something I've noticed is that you're ignoring macerators. Is this intentional? They give a +6 to dice when in melee range, but require a minor action to use, and allow Hazou to get away with using less chakra.
 
IMO, general battle plan:

1. Toss some explosives towards where we think Aiko is first thing, to keep her off balance and disperse the mist some more.
2. Head over to get to support Noburi. Punch the shit out of whoever is attacking him, if they're close enough for that. Otherwise, toss explosives.
3. Work together with Noburi and any other allies to take down Aiko if the explosives didn't get her. Preferably with more explosives.

Also, try not to stay too bunched up so as to avoid another lightning attack.

Just keep it simple, and don't overcomplicate things.
 
Enjou said:
IMO, general battle plan:

1. Toss some explosives towards where we think Aiko is first thing, to keep her off balance and disperse the mist some more.
2. Head over to get to support Noburi. Punch the shit out of whoever is attacking him, if they're close enough for that. Otherwise, toss explosives.
3. Work together with Noburi and any other allies to take down Aiko if the explosives didn't get her. Preferably with more explosives.

Also, try not to stay too bunched up so as to avoid another lightning attack.

Just keep it simple, and don't overcomplicate things.
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1 does not allow for 2: They are both combat actions.

e:

Here's how I think it should go:

Round 1:

Move: Move in to Noburi
Combat: Punch enemy in range
Quick: With macerators, and no/little boost
Quick: Activate one banshee slayer.

Round 2:
(Noburi/Kei activate banshee slayers somewhere in between last turn and this turn)
Move: Move in close to enemy that Noburi points out
Quick: Activate other banshee slayer
Quick: Activate Banshee
Combat: Punch enemy.
 
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