- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Questions on MEW and HLaM:
Can Hazou use MEW while underground via HLaM?
Additionally, can he HLaM through MEWs he's created, whether chakra material or not?
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Suggestion for Technique Hacking:
When rolling Technique Hacking, you may roll either half the technique level of a technique you are adjusting (if you are modifying one) or Technique Hacking, whichever is higher. This allows Mari to make her own genjutsu, while not really allowing Noburi to easily create new medical techniques as easily.
Can Hazou use MEW while underground via HLaM?
Additionally, can he HLaM through MEWs he's created, whether chakra material or not?
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Suggestion for Technique Hacking:
When rolling Technique Hacking, you may roll either half the technique level of a technique you are adjusting (if you are modifying one) or Technique Hacking, whichever is higher. This allows Mari to make her own genjutsu, while not really allowing Noburi to easily create new medical techniques as easily.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
And bounded by the Technique Hacking prereqs.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Added to the last Infodump:
For practical (and meta) reasons, a ninja can only learn one such technique, because you don't have time to evaluate a situation and select from the ninjutsu you know -- it has to be drilled into reflex so there's no possibility of conscious choice as to which one to use. It also needs to be learned right from the start to maximize your survivability. At that point in their development ninja typically have low chakra reserves, so fast-cast techniques like this typically are not among the most powerful. Fortunately, Noburi picked a good choice in Water Whip.
Ninjutsu specialists who want to survive geninhood pick a rapid-cast technique and train to activate it reflexively. This is what happened with Noburi and Hazō overreacting to the civilian child, for example.Player QuINOA Doc said:
For practical (and meta) reasons, a ninja can only learn one such technique, because you don't have time to evaluate a situation and select from the ninjutsu you know -- it has to be drilled into reflex so there's no possibility of conscious choice as to which one to use. It also needs to be learned right from the start to maximize your survivability. At that point in their development ninja typically have low chakra reserves, so fast-cast techniques like this typically are not among the most powerful. Fortunately, Noburi picked a good choice in Water Whip.
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- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
I disagree with this build. Addressing it point by point:
MEW - unlocking additional levels of it is essentially worthless aside from the benefit to reducing the cost of other jutsu. We aren't going to roll MEW against anyone in combat successfully with 10 levels, and the extra levels in it don't unlock any opportunities. It feels like we're leveling it just because it's effectively on sale.
Living Roots - This I'm pretty ok with, because it might help us in odd situations, or as information gathering if/when we make domes to protect ourselves from opponents, or if we need to gather information on stuff in a building that we can stand near. That said, it's not viable to use it all the time to stop stealthy people from ambushing us due to chakra constraints, and I don't think it will be good enough to help us with much actual reconissance - we'd need to be within 3 meters to catch a stealthly genin with it. If we're going to level it, I feel like more levels are better.
Hiding Like a Mole - to my knowledge, we don't have specifics on what this does yet, but regardless, if we wind up needing to roll it against something (e.g. opponent awareness), then taking additional levels in it is not very helpful, as we would lose to even our own shoddy awareness stat. I am unsure how useful it will or will not be, and would rather spend XP on something I know we will need to roll like Tac Move or Awareness.
Ultimately, I think living roots leveling may be worth it, but am hesitant to support spending XP on either of the other two jutus. My preferred build for Hazou is closer to:
[X] Training Hazou: Run Hazou Run
Tac Move -> 27 [78/102]
To get an effective 30 Tac Move dice, since that adds 3 dice to initiative and our most important combat stat which we cannot avoid rolling. Or,
[X] Training Hazou: Alertness
Resolve 5 [10/102]
Wits 8 [26/102]
Awareness 23 [92/102]
Since that adds 3 dice to initiative and helps cover our gaping weakness to stealth speced teams. Aim from here to put levels into Awareness and Tac Move, maybe Living Roots. If you want to spec it differently, then perhaps
[X] Training Hazou: Special Alertness
Control 4 [14/102]
Living Roots 12 [91/102]
Which gets us an extra 2 dice for living roots rolls and avoids wasting XP on MEW or Hiding Like a Mole.
Ultimately, we figure we've probably got about two weeks of training, which will likely get us an additional 14 days * 3 XP/day = 42 XP to play with.
So, we should be building Hazou to the point where he has the greatest chance of surviving and winning the Chunnin Exams with 144 more XP spent than he has right now. Spending XP on Living Roots will give us an additional avenue of approach which is nice, but neither MEW nor HLAM are likely to give us much of anything by putting additional points into them. On the other hand, Tac Move and Awareness are definitely going to be rolled - they're rolled every combat for initiative (hugely important), and let us not auto-lose to stealth specced teams, and let us make combat be at the range we want it (hugely important for our main combat stat). In fact, we already have all the attributes to level Tac Move a fair amount. To that extent, I want a final build of something like:
Tac Move 29 [135/144]
Living Roots 4 [144/144]
Which, assuming average human awareness is ~6 dice (reasonable from where we started), would grant us reasonable human awareness out to ~ 10 meters through buildings - sufficient for basic scouting, insufficient for finding ninja, but spending more isn't going to get us that either with the points available to us. It also more critically gives us an additional 5 dice to roll for initiative, running away, and closing range - all of which are checks I expect us to need to make.
Alternatively, spend 86 points increasing the stat cap for Taijutsu, letting us roll an extra 5 taijutsu dice with our seal boxes - push our taijutsu advantage even harder, ensuring we'll be able to win in close quarters fights (if we can get there by sealcraft), then the remaining 58 points on other stuff, probably picking up an extra 2 Tac Move dice.
I really don't think spreading ourselves thin on a bunch of jutsu is the right move here mechanically. Leveling MEW up to 6 was a mistake - it has granted us no return on investment that MEW 1 would not have provided. Let's not keep leveling it "because it costs a little less," and let's not commit to leveling something we don't even know what it does yet - especially something which looks like it will also have little point to leveling higher. Instead, lets put levels in the things which will grant us additional avenues of action (Living Roots) or dice on rolls we cannot avoid (Tac Move & Awareness). Wasting XP on HLAM and MEW just isn't worth it.
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
It's not on sale, though? Getting it to 10 would put other things on sale, but Hazō doesn't have 10 in any jutsu iirc.
zap lunch
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- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
The cost of leveling Living Roots to 10 on its own is 68. The cost of leveling MEW to 10 in addition (but doing it first) is 75. The cost of leveling MEW to 10 after leveling Living Roots to 10 is 85. By leveling MEW before Living Roots we save 10 XP. That said, I don't think the 10 XP discount is worth it.
edit: This is because Hazou currently has 6 levels in MEW, but 1 level in his other jutsu.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
MEW can potentially be used for Tac Move boosts:
But it costs a combat action. Why not just invest in TM directly?
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
Given that @OliWhail told us earlier today that it cannot be used for Tac Move boosts, I wouldn't count on that. Especially not in time for the chunnin exams. I think we're better off just leveling Tac Move instead of MEW, especially since MEW costs chakra and Tac Move has other uses like initiative and dodging aside from just straight up fast pursuit. Additionally, this sort of movement buff doesn't seem to work with skywalkers, so it doesn't seem viable in the long-term. So, ultimately, it seems like it's attempting to go for a buff that doesn't exist, knowing that if it did exist we wouldn't have enough levels or practice to use it effectively in the chunnin exams, and that by the time we got levels and practice for it, we'd be using skywalkers, so would have already made the buff obsolete. I'd prefer not to spend XP doing that. Even if we effectively get a 10 XP discount by doing it now instead of later.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
It also has uses in keeping an enemy with superior tacmove pinned so they can't approach Keiko, as well as in escaping conflict. It is the effective equivalent of Vacuum Step.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
- Location
- Yes.
IIRC they said we could do retroactive training once we got our jutsus.
No spending yet has three votes versus five for the top contender, two voters of which has voted for both.
And why spend XP prematurely at this point when we can gather more info by training with other genins who can then tell us which weakness we most need to plug urgently?
And why spend XP prematurely at this point when we can gather more info by training with other genins who can then tell us which weakness we most need to plug urgently?
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
[X] Training Hazō: No Spending Just Yet