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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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We need a better subplan for Keiko than just asking questions. I only had three questions to ask the Pangolins.

I am also worried about overwhelming the QMs with questions there too.
 
I am thinking about cutting away the team discussion and city to visit section in the merchant subplan, and just have Mari-sensei do the research.
 
Kiba said:
Is researching any of the Jiraiya seals given to Hazō going to be straight forward affair since you should have the TN for each seal, or is that going to lead to higher CPU usage again?
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I predict those will be pretty straightforward from a number crunching perspective.

Briefvoice said:
I'm starting to remember why I gave up on this quest. Nothing's changed. Endless arguments over grandiose ambitions that hold little interest for me. Endless demands that training plans and seals be completed before the quest can go anywhere or anything that can be accomplished. Now apparently even the mechanic for registering a vote has become arcane and unknowable. (It sure isn't on the front page.)
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To clarify, PlanBot is a thing @Vecht has been working on that's meant to aggregate lots of little plans and is separate from normal voting, which is still straight approval voting.
 
Lailoken said:
That's awesome- you just forgot the part where we do it in Rice.
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No see what happens is we get a lead about a merchant in rice and then go there. Also Noburi's med nin teacher is here in Iron so should finish that up first before we head of to rice. Then since we have skywalkers + whatever seals Hazou figures out we will be in a much stronger position to get to rice. Also will be able to escape easier if things go belly up there.

Also by finishing skywalkers before we go to rice we can work on building a hidden heaven prototype as our base of operations so we are safe from the clan ninja's

Basically I want us to advance several plans all at once that will make it easier to be more established in rice.
 
Kiba said:
You mean, you want Mari-sensei and Noburi to cross the border to Rice without the benefit of skywalkers?

They will be in Yuni, which means Mari-sensei can do merchant research while Noburi do his learning thing.
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I want the whole team to cross the border without skywalkers, because they're extremely vulnerable to retroengineering from mere observation and we therefore can't afford to use them casually, that's a better place for everybody to be, and all the objections people have about going back to Rice apply ten-fold to going back to Yuni.


Kiba said:
We need a better subplan for Keiko than just asking questions. I only had three questions to ask the Pangolins.

I am also worried about overwhelming the QMs with questions there too.
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We should probably clarify what they have against the Tapirs.
 
Moved the sealing research plan out of the linked plan. Plan to do this for the rest of the plan.

Also rank seals to research by perceived difficulty.

Kiba said:
If people are ignoring HAI, I am going to aggregate all my plans into one.

[X] Action Plan: Forward Motion

Goal:

1. Research Seals.
2. Train.
2. Plan what to do.

Methods:

We're splitting the party to do several things.

Action Items:
  • Kagome-sensei and Hazō at Base: Sealing Research Plan.
    • Let Kagome-sensei finish the skywalker research. Once he's done, he should teach the seal to Hazō.
    • If Hazō finished his training and Kagome-sensei hadn't yet finish his skywalker research, do sealing research on Jiraiya reward seals given to him.
    • Have Kagome-sensei and Hazō go through the list together and rank each seal by the level of ease and discard anything that seemed even slightly too advanced for Hazō. Here is the list of seals ranked by the hivemind based on its perceived difficulty:
      • Alarm seal. Jiraiya said it's very basic.
      • Banshee Slayer Seal.
      • Silence Mine.
      • Goo Bomb.
      • Tunneler's Friend.
      • Usamatsu's Glorious Life-Saving Purifier
  • Keiko in the Summon Realm: Pangolin Society Research(See Spoiler).
  • Keiko will talk to Pandaa or go to the summon realm and ask question.
  • Keiko will clear any questions she might have with Pandaa to avoid getting squashed or offending the Pangolins.
  • Questions:
    • Who is the Pankorator?
    • Why is sealing prohibited in the Summon Realm?
    • Why did the Condor started the first war?
  • Goal: We want to help Noburi finish his medical training safely.
  • Steps:
    • Let Noburi know that Hazo is supportive of his ambitions as a medic-nin and that we want to help him on that path.
    • Discuss potential issues, and how we might address them.
    • Suggest that we should be cautious.
  • Supporting Information; Potential Issues
    • Hashimoto might not want to teach Noburi
      • Ask Noburi what things Hashimoto might want (ryo, Macerators...) and offer to help with getting these things.
    • Hashimoto might reject Noburi completely no matter the rewards.
      • Ask for referal to another medic-nin that the team could learn from.
    • Hunter-nin might notice Noburi and/or his barrel.
      • Bring up Noburi disguising his barrel as a travel sack or appropriate covering.
      • Suggest Noburi obfuscate his movement through clever Henge use:
        • Noburi + Inoue go to Hashimoto's.
          • When Noburi leaves, Inoue creates a Water Clone Henge'd as Noburi.
          • Inoue & clone leave.
          • Repeat when Noburi leaves (at a set time?).
Misc (To be done offscreen/optional)
  1. Textbooks from Leaf (Hazō Study Plan)
Contingency:
  • Escape paths:
    • Have traps set up so we can escape to the southwest river or the eastern coast (depending on the situation). More if Kagome-/Inoue-sensei say so.
  • Jiraiya calls us in:
    • Figure out what country we're going to, then draft a evac route to get there.
    • Will probably involve water/coastal routes.
  • A wild ninjas appears:
    • Make as many observations about the situation and the potential enemy as is possible in a split second.
    • End the update.
  • Disguises with other people: Face-concealing masks, Henge over all this. All the time.
    • Of course if we're talking to stronger ninjas (Jiraiya) we don't do this if Inoue-sensei doesn't. Be polite.
  • Sealing testing:
    • Get Kagome's input on everything first.
    • Test seals with clones, plants, etc. to examine effects on them.
Click to expand...
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Oneiros43 said:
No see what happens is we get a lead about a merchant in rice and then go there. Also Noburi's med nin teacher is here in Iron so should finish that up first before we head of to rice. Then since we have skywalkers + whatever seals Hazou figures out we will be in a much stronger position to get to rice. Also will be able to escape easier if things go belly up there.

Also by finishing skywalkers before we go to rice we can work on building a hidden heaven prototype as our base of operations so we are safe from the clan ninja's

Basically I want us to advance several plans all at once that will make it easier to be more established in rice.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There are plenty of merchants in Rice, including ones we already have relationships with. The Rice ninja sell ninja training to civilians, which suggests that non-combat training will be available. We shouldn't use the skywalkers in anything but an emergency anyway. We have working watchtowers, and I frankly have more confidence in a few weeks of paranoid Kagome work over anything in the sky. There will always be things we can do just sitting in place before leaving, while leaving avoids the lighthouse problem everybody, including the GMs, are getting irritated by and actually creates opportunities to advance several lines at once.

Seriously, I don't want to see the next club size up the GMs use to beat us over the head about our need to give them something interesting to write about. Plan: "Plan to Plan About Planning" doesn't seem as if it'll satisfy that.
 
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I would like the hivemind to consider the ranking of seals by the ease of development, following in the spirit of doing the thinking so that the QMs don't have to.

  • Alarm seal. Jiraiya said it's very basic.
  • Banshee Slayer Seal.
  • Silence Mine.
  • Goo Bomb.
  • Tunneler's Friend.
  • Usamatsu's Glorious Life-Saving Purifier
 
Lailoken said:
That's awesome- you just forgot the part where we do it in Rice
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This is a possibility. Other options, with varying levels of reasonableness, include:
  • Bear
  • Bird
  • Claw
  • Demon
  • Fang
  • Fire
  • Forest
  • Frost
  • Grass
  • Hotsprings
  • Iron
  • Key
  • Lightning
  • Marsh
  • Mountain
  • Neck
  • Noodles
  • Rain
  • River
  • Sky
  • Snow
  • Tea
  • Valley
  • Vegetable
  • Water
  • Waterfall
  • Wind
  • Wolf
  • Wood
Or another place not mentioned.

And natutally, these options should each be evaluated on their own merits, rather than the total number of times mentioned.
 
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Lailoken said:
There are plenty of merchants in Rice, including ones we already have relationships with. The Rice ninja sell ninja training to civilians, which suggests that non-combat training will be available. We shouldn't use the skywalkers in anything but an emergency anyway. We have working watchtowers, and I frankly have more confidence in a few weeks of paranoid Kagome work over anything in the sky. There will always be things we can do just sitting in place before leaving, while leaving avoids the lighthouse problem everybody, including the GMs, are getting irritated by and actually creates opportunities to advance several lines at once.

Seriously, I don't want to see the next club size up the GMs use to beat us over the head about our need to give them something interesting to write about. Plan: "Plan to Plan About Planning" doesn't seem as if it'll satisfy that.
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Unless you have better idea, Noburi and Mari-sensei are going to Yuni, because that's where Hashimoto-sensei is.
 
[-=PlanBot=-
(Data from Page 1739, PostId 7994111)
How to Use PlanBot

Voting ends on Saturday, March the 4th​ at 02:00 PM (UTC), in 34.1 hours.

Plan Name: Action Plan: Forward Motion
Author: [member='5323']@Kiba[/member]
Voters: [member='11467']@schlega[/member], [member='13249']@Oneiros43[/member]
Num Votes: 3

Plan Name: Action Plan: A List of All Lists That Do Not Contain Themselves
Author: [member='5880']@MadScientist[/member]
Voters: [member='11467']@schlega[/member]
Num Votes: 2

Plan Name: Ignore the "Hivemind Aggregation Initiative" plan
Author: [member='16230']@Vecht[/member]
Voters: [member='11537']@Cariyaga[/member]
Num Votes: 2

Plan Name: Hazou Training: Seal-augmented Combat
Author: [member='16230']@Vecht[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Keiko Training: Summoning Up
Author: [member='16230']@Vecht[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Noburi Training: Water Up
Author: [member='16230']@Vecht[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Hivemind Aggregation Initiative
Author: [member='5323']@Kiba[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Action: Back Into the World
Author: [member='3858']@Briefvoice[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Plan Admit Defeat on Changing the World
Author: [member='3858']@Briefvoice[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Total Voters: 7

-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-
[X] Hivemind Aggregation Initiative
Ignore all other plans!

Disclaimer:
-- This plan is an automated aggregation of input from multiple players.
-- The most up-to-date version of this plan can always be found here.

Goals:
  • Merchant Network
  • <None>
Actions:
Misc: (To be done as time permits, or offscreen)
Training:
  • Hazou: No training.
  • Keiko: No training.
  • Noburi: No training.
Contingency Plan:
Contributed Plans by Goal:

Plan Name: Action: An Actual Merchant Plan (Merchant Network)
Author: [member='5323']@Kiba[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Action: A Sealing Research Plan
Author: [member='5323']@Kiba[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Misc: Textbooks from Leaf (Hazō Study Plan)
Author: [member='5323']@Kiba[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Contingency: Same as Always
Author: [member='5323']@Kiba[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Total Contributors: 1
-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-
 
For the Pangolins section could just have Kei interact with Panjandrum he seems like a person that would be helpful in developing a deeper relationship with

Another option is to try to figure out the political relationship with the allied clans. With specific interest into the otter clan. Maybe try to find out if they have a summoner. If they do might be able to ally with them. If the otters don't we could try to locate the scroll for team uplift.

@Lailoken we are probably doing our last update before we leave the lighthouse. Rice is a very good option for where we go next. But just constantly saying we should drop everything and head there now constantly is not productive.


We would lose time on sealing research because we'd have to rebuild a research base.
Would have to travel back to Iron to get Noburi his Med training.
Just have a few things to do before we head out. I am willing to support going to rice for the update next Thursday. You've convinced me that this is a good long term plan.
 
I delinked the merchant plan and pared it down to just Mari doing merchant research. I also added more questions for Keiko to ask.

Kiba said:
If people are ignoring HAI, I am going to aggregate all my plans into one.

[X] Action Plan: Forward Motion

Goal:

1. Research Seals.
2. Train.
2. Plan what to do.

Methods:

We're splitting the party to do several things.

Action Items:
  • Kagome-sensei and Hazō at Base: Sealing Research Plan.
    • Let Kagome-sensei finish the skywalker research. Once he's done, he should teach the seal to Hazō.
    • If Hazō finished his training and Kagome-sensei hadn't yet finish his skywalker research, do sealing research on Jiraiya reward seals given to him.
    • Have Kagome-sensei and Hazō go through the list together and rank each seal by the level of ease and discard anything that seemed even slightly too advanced for Hazō. Here is the list of seals ranked by the hivemind based on its perceived difficulty:
      • Alarm seal. Jiraiya said it's very basic.
      • Banshee Slayer Seal.
      • Silence Mine.
      • Goo Bomb.
      • Tunneler's Friend.
      • Usamatsu's Glorious Life-Saving Purifier
  • Keiko in the Summon Realm: Pangolin Society Research(See Spoiler).
    • Keiko will talk to Pandaa or go to the summon realm to do research.
    • Keiko will also clear any questions she might have with Pandaa to avoid getting squashed or offending the Pangolins.
    • Questions:
      • Who is the Pankorator?
      • Why is sealing prohibited in the Summon Realm?
      • Why did the Condor started the first war?
      • Just what is the Academy?
      • What the Pangolins have against the Taipir?
  • Mari and Noburi in Yuni: Merchant Empire Research and Noburi Medical Training (See Spoiler).
  • Goal: We want to help Noburi finish his medical training safely.
  • Steps:
    • Let Noburi know that Hazo is supportive of his ambitions as a medic-nin and that we want to help him on that path.
    • Discuss potential issues, and how we might address them.
    • Suggest that we should be cautious.
  • Supporting Information; Potential Issues
    • Hashimoto might not want to teach Noburi
      • Ask Noburi what things Hashimoto might want (ryo, Macerators...) and offer to help with getting these things.
    • Hashimoto might reject Noburi completely no matter the rewards.
      • Ask for referal to another medic-nin that the team could learn from.
    • Hunter-nin might notice Noburi and/or his barrel.
      • Bring up Noburi disguising his barrel as a travel sack or appropriate covering.
      • Suggest Noburi obfuscate his movement through clever Henge use:
        • Noburi + Inoue go to Hashimoto's.
          • When Noburi leaves, Inoue creates a Water Clone Henge'd as Noburi.
          • Inoue & clone leave.
          • Repeat when Noburi leaves (at a set time?).
  • Mari will strike up conversations with merchants where she can find them.
    • Get some news about what happening in the world for the last several months.
    • Learn about how merchant caravans work.
    • Learn about the challenge and rewards.
    • Learn about the various caravans, who run them, their routes, and how long it takes to complete their routes.
  • Criteria for trading partners:
    • Not too nosy.
    • Don't drink or gamble or engage in other vice.
    • Don't divulge important information easily.
    • Know how to make money.
    • Not a cheating scroundel.
  • Once we found a trading partner or however many, make sure to remember their schedule and their route so we can visit them later.
Misc (To be done offscreen/optional)
  1. Textbooks from Leaf (Hazō Study Plan)
Contingency:
  • Escape paths:
    • Have traps set up so we can escape to the southwest river or the eastern coast (depending on the situation). More if Kagome-/Inoue-sensei say so.
  • Jiraiya calls us in:
    • Figure out what country we're going to, then draft a evac route to get there.
    • Will probably involve water/coastal routes.
  • A wild ninjas appears:
    • Make as many observations about the situation and the potential enemy as is possible in a split second.
    • End the update.
  • Disguises with other people: Face-concealing masks, Henge over all this. All the time.
    • Of course if we're talking to stronger ninjas (Jiraiya) we don't do this if Inoue-sensei doesn't. Be polite.
  • Sealing testing:
    • Get Kagome's input on everything first.
    • Test seals with clones, plants, etc. to examine effects on them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Lailoken said:
There are plenty of merchants in Rice, including ones we already have relationships with.
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The only merchant I remember is the one who saw through all three of our genin's disguises and called us out on it. Since the 'Cold Stone Killers' are now more well known throughout the EN, if he wants to turn us in for a quick buck he can. Or he can blackmail us by saying he will give our position away to Zabuza if we don't do as he says.

Lailoken said:
The Rice ninja sell ninja training to civilians, which suggests that non-combat training will be available.
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Source? I only recall that the civilian mayor had diplomatic skills worthy of a seasoned ninja, but I believe that was caused by her constantly having to balance the political maneuverings of the various clans in Rice, not explicit, organized training.

@Vecht has a good point: why is Rice better than simply journeying to another city where we haven't made a name for ourselves before? We pissed off a lot of people in Rice before we left and we aren't as strong as we once were because of TGR. Keiko's boast could land us in serious trouble if the Rice ninja want to teach us a lesson. We don't even know which clan we further pissed off by abducting Arikada which means there is an unknown angry faction in that town too.

Some new town seems like a better overall bet for our team's survival. Mari can find another sob case to care about as harsh as that sounds is. What can we find in Rice that we cannot find anywhere else?
 
Kiba said:
I delinked the merchant plan and pared it down to just Mari doing merchant research. I also added more questions for Keiko to ask.
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Ah okay. I was confused since you had it in one spot as the Merchant Empire plan and it wasn't linked to anything I had written. In the future, could you differentiate your Merchant Empire plans by adding something along the lines of 'Kiba's Merchant Empire Plan' instead of just calling it the 'Merchant Empire'? Disambiguation is always helpful and appreciated.
 
Dictator4Hire said:
The only merchant I remember is the one who saw through all three of our genin's disguises and called us out on it. Since the 'Cold Stone Killers' are now more well known throughout the EN, if he wants to turn us in for a quick buck he can. Or he can blackmail us by saying he will give our position away to Zabuza if we don't do as he says.



Source? I only recall that the civilian mayor had diplomatic skills worthy of a seasoned ninja, but I believe that was caused by her constantly having to balance the political maneuverings of the various clans in Rice, not explicit, organized training.

@Vecht has a good point: why is Rice better than simply journeying to another city where we haven't made a name for ourselves before? We pissed off a lot of people in Rice before we left and we aren't as strong as we once were because of TGR. Keiko's boast could land us in serious trouble if the Rice ninja want to teach us a lesson. We don't even know which clan we further pissed off by abducting Arikada which means there is an unknown angry faction in that town too.

Some new town seems like a better overall bet for our team's survival. Mari can find another sob case to care about as harsh as that sounds is. What can we find in Rice that we cannot find anywhere else?
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Mari and Noburi are going to Yuni, because that's where Hashimoto-sensei is and that where Mari-sensei will also do merchant research.

Not exactly the ideal place to be, but since they're risking their neck as it is, we might as well take advantage.
 
Kiba said:
Mari and Noburi are going to Yuni, because that's where Hashimoto-sensei is and that where Mari-sensei will also do merchant research.

Not exactly the ideal place to be, but since they're risking their neck as it is, we might as well take advantage.
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@Lailoken was/is advocating for everyone to travel to Rice. I still don't see why we should go there versus a city we've never been to before.

E: As for Mari's research, feel free to add in the links in my sig about setting up (my version) of the Merchant Empire. While we don't need to vet people right away, getting in the habit of looking for potential candidates shouldn't hurt. Also, it will give us some IC feedback on how feasible such extreme vetting will be.
 
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I hate this idea that we have to "leave the lighthouse" when we've done a grand total of one research task on Hazou's part while here. Fuck that.
 
So random thought of Ninja stuff we can do. Since we have a leaf Bingo Book we could start trying to 1. try to find missing nin that would be willing to work with us. Maybe using the same method that Jiriyai used to recruit us. Or 2. find some easy bounties that we could collect and turn in. possibly find to non leaf villages that way we might be able to establish decent relationships with 4 out of the big 5.
 
Cariyaga said:
I hate this idea that we have to "leave the lighthouse" when we've done a grand total of one research task on Hazou's part while here. Fuck that.
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Oh I agree but fafing around in the woods hasn't got any research done. So we can keep pounding our head against the wall and not get anything done. Or start trying to move forward with a variety of plans all at once. Hopefully can go out and have most of the team work on Ninja stuff while Hazou and Kagome do seal/engineering. That way we keep the QM from getting bored, advance the plot and, do fun seal research.
 
Veedrac said:
@eaglejarl

Did you forget to threadmark @OliWhail's pair of omakes? I'm a bit late in asking, I realize.
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Done, thanks.

Voting is open until 9am New York time, Saturday, March 4, 2017.


CounterBot, version 1.6


Plan name: A List of All Lists That Do Not Contain Themselves
Voters: @MadScientist, @RideTheWalrus, @schlega
Num votes: 3


Plan name: Forward Motion
Voters: @Kiba, @Oneiros43, @schlega
Num votes: 3


Plan name: Ignore the "Hivemind Aggregation Initiative" plan
Voters: @Cariyaga, @Vecht
Num votes: 2


Plan name: Action: Back Into the World
Voters: @Briefvoice
Num votes: 1


Plan name: Back Into the World
Voters: @Briefvoice
Num votes: 1


Plan name: Hazou Training: Seal-augmented Combat
Voters: @Vecht
Num votes: 1


Plan name: Hivemind Aggregation Initiative
Voters: @Kiba
Num votes: 1


Plan name: Keiko Training: Summoning Up
Voters: @Vecht
Num votes: 1


Plan name: Noburi Training: Water Up
Voters: @Vecht
Num votes: 1


Plan name: Plan Admit Defeat on Changing the World
Voters: @Briefvoice
Num votes: 1


Number of voters: 8
 
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