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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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MadScientist said:
We don't need to be a large village. At least not at first.

If the Yakuza have managed to pick up a handful of ninja, I'm sure we can recruit enough to staff a political summit.
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The Yakuza are a massive, long-established semi-legal conglomerate with oodles of monies and lots of perks. They're effectively already a shadow-state in and of themselves.

-and tiny villages, especially ones populated entirely by international criminals, may not be the best at employing the intimidatory hedgehog defense in pursuit of international goodwill and fellowship.



Veedrac said:
Not really sure what the confusion is. We offer them power with our seals. It makes sense that this gives us a bargaining position. It doesn't make sense that this lets them control our actions.

Jiraiya did exactly the same thing with us, long before we gave him squat. If we act in a damaging way, their threat is to disaffiliate with us.
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More importantly, we offer them the team's knowledge of the outside world and contacts within it. These villagers didn't even know what medics were beyond legends. If the team can offer some relationships in Leaf, Rice, and Iron, especially the sort of powerful ones which can be bought with a combination of a seal cache and an alliance with a village in control of Tea, that makes them immensely valuable to the villagers. They'd have to take a chance on somebody, and the team have a head start in being the only outsiders that they have already taken a chance on. Everything they learn about the outside world will be filtered through whatever lens we want to give them.
 
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Lailoken said:
More importantly, we offer them the team's knowledge of the outside world and contacts within it. These villagers didn't even know what medics were beyond legends. If the team can offer some relationships in Leaf, Rice, and Iron, especially the sort of powerful ones which can be bought with a combination of a seal cache and an alliance with a village in control of Tea, that makes them immensely valuable to the villagers. They'd have to take a chance on somebody, and the team have a head start in being the only outsiders that they have already taken a chance on. Everything they learn about the outside world will be filtered through whatever lens we want to give them.
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Ok then. What is our plan for this? We can't come back until like six months passed. In the meantime, we need something to do or we'll bore the QMs.
 
  • Go to Rice.
  • Merchant it up by killing chakra beasts (and learning more about them. We may yet find more paralytic dragonflies, so to speak)
  • Ninja missions if opportunity strikes.
  • Finish Skywalkers.
  • Learn how to make an Airbase (without fully implementing Hidden Heaven, they're still useful)
That's more than enough for a good few updates, and if we run out of all that and things still aren't happening we can go find Jiraiya and see if he has anything for his deniable assets to do.
 
This isn't really a plan I would ever expect to "win", but it expresses my feelings and why the day-to-day stuff of the quest is so interesting to me and yet I completely tune out whenever people start going on about floating hidden villages. This is how I really, sincerely feel, and it gets a place in the votecount, and if you want to believe all this "Hivemind" stuff then there will be a small part of Hazou that feels this way as well.

[X] Plan Admit Defeat on Changing the World

Goals:
1. Survive
2. Rid ourselves of the notion that we are going to personally upend the order of the world.
3. Concentrate on achieving personal happiness instead.

Methods:
  • Kill some dreams.
    • Make a personal commitment to yourself to give up on ideas of running a Merchant Empire, controlling a hidden village that floats in the sky, or other grandiose ambitions.
    • Learn to find happiness in small goals of personal satisfaction, ensuring the happiness and well-being of yourself and people you care about.
  • Establish new, more realistic ambitions.
    • You want to someday achieve a jounin level of skill, especially with sealing.
    • You want to be reunited with your mother in a place of safety and where both of you will be safe.
    • You want to "come in out of the cold" and find a village or clan that will take you in and allow you to build a life where you are not marked for death.
    • You want the same safety for all of your friends, the same safety that Akane has achieved.
    • Finally, you want to be a decent person so far as life allows, to show mercy when you can, help the weak, and be kind rather than cruel.
    • Express these ambitions to the rest of the party after a suitable period of reflection, acknowledging that your previous plans were childish fantasies created by the desperation of your situation. If it you weren't likely to survive the year, might as well dream of the sky.
  • Decide once and for all on a new direction in conjunction with the rest of the team. Really, really, make a forever decision in which the update ends with a vote of Hazou and the rest of the team each stating what they want and committing to pursue it, then counting the votes and majority rules.
    • Option 1: Finish the Skywalkers and trade for Leaf citizenship. This is Hazou's favored alternative.
    • Option 2: Go to Hidden Mountain and petition to be adopted into their ruling clans and joining them for real.
    • Option 3: Other potential sponsors as suggested by the various team members. You'll take anyone, just as long as you don't have to live the hellish life of a missing nin any longer.
  • You acknowledge that means signing up to be someone else's soldier, killing at their command, and that you are at peace with that. How does that square with "be a decent person"? Well, like everyone you are full of contradictions.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
  • Go to Rice.
  • Merchant it up by killing chakra beasts (and learning more about them. We may yet find more paralytic dragonflies, so to speak)
  • Ninja missions if opportunity strikes.
  • Finish Skywalkers.
  • Learn how to make an Airbase (without fully implementing Hidden Heaven, they're still useful)
That's more than enough for a good few updates, and if we run out of all that and things still aren't happening we can go find Jiraiya and see if he has anything for his deniable assets to do.
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My action plan is about planning without actually acting on it. I wonder if I should change that.

OTOH, I would like to wait until we finish training and finish our research on the skywalker seal. We're not going to be going anywhere until the skywalker is complete.
 
-=PlanBot=-
(Data from Page 1739, PostId 7994111)
How to Use PlanBot

Voting ends on Saturday, March the 4th​ at 02:00 PM (UTC), in 36.9 hours.

Plan Name: Ignore the "Hivemind Aggregation Initiative" plan
Author: [member='16230']@Vecht[/member]
Voters: [member='11537']@Cariyaga[/member]
Num Votes: 2

Plan Name: Action Plan: A List of All Lists That Do Not Contain Themselves
Author: [member='5880']@MadScientist[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Hazou Training: Seal-augmented Combat
Author: [member='16230']@Vecht[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Keiko Training: Summoning Up
Author: [member='16230']@Vecht[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Noburi Training: Water Up
Author: [member='16230']@Vecht[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Hivemind Aggregation Initiative
Author: [member='5323']@Kiba[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Action: Back Into the World
Author: [member='3858']@Briefvoice[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Action Plan: Forward Motion
Author: [member='5323']@Kiba[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Plan Admit Defeat on Changing the World
Author: [member='3858']@Briefvoice[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Total Voters: 5

-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-
[X] Hivemind Aggregation Initiative
Ignore all other plans!

Disclaimer:
-- This plan is an automated aggregation of input from multiple players.
-- The most up-to-date version of this plan can always be found here.

Goals:
  • Merchant Network
  • <None>
Actions:
Misc: (To be done as time permits, or offscreen)
Training:
  • Hazou: No training.
  • Keiko: No training.
  • Noburi: No training.
Contingency Plan:
Contributed Plans by Goal:

Plan Name: Action: An Actual Merchant Plan (Merchant Network)
Author: [member='5323']@Kiba[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Action: A Sealing Research Plan
Author: [member='5323']@Kiba[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Misc: Textbooks from Leaf (Hazō Study Plan)
Author: [member='5323']@Kiba[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Contingency: Same as Always
Author: [member='5323']@Kiba[/member]
Num Votes: 1

Total Contributors: 1
-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-
 
Still suggest that we split up into 3 teams
Hazou and kagome do seal work
Kei develops a bond with her new summon.
Noburi and Mari go off and get medical training slash research merchant empire

Plan ends when skywalkers are completed
 
Vecht said:
Less effort. Was @Radvic's idea. I just named it. Basically we get flight in some form, leave the EN, carpet bomb some area to kill off Chakra monsters, then use it as a base of operations.
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Veedrac said:
Last I recall, my running of the numbers showed they were nowhere near sufficient for this to work.
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Vecht said:
No offense, but I trust @Radvic's physics intuitions more than yours. And mine. Combined.
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Cariyaga said:
You're gonna make him blush! :p
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Veedrac said:
No offense taken, but I'm not asking you to trust my intuition. mgh is hardly a difficult equation.
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So, the most basic way we do this is by setting up a 5SB platform a ways above our target, then use MEW on stuff and drop it. If we are 1 km above ground, and make a 100 kg block, it'll be ~ 10 m/s^2 X 100 kg X 1000 m = 1,000,000 J/cast, which is about a stick of dynamite. We can do this for as many pieces of wood as we can cast MEW on. So, it's basically a bunch of directed sticks of dynamite as many times as we want above an area. So, probably able to clear, but not bunker busting levels. Bunker busting will require a little more effort (e.g. cast MEW 10 times before dropping the tower, or also throw a PMYF down or something). That said, dropped 100 kg objects will be much better at doing damage into the ground as opposed to dynamite (since it'll basically be shaped charges). At the very least, it would be lower risk than walking down in the area and killing things, and I suspect would be sufficient to clear an area given enough time. Not likely to be something we can do to clear an area within a few hours (until we solve the air pressure problem).
 
@Radvic

You pretty much agree with me numbers wise. You could certainly clear an area given enough time, but I feel we're multiple orders of magnitude short before the damage is fast enough for it to actually be a maintainable state.

Clearing out large areas of land with sticks of TNT sounds extremely laborious, and it only gets worse once each stick adds rubble to the place (EDIT: Not actually a problem; they dissipate after 20 minutes). The main problem, though, is this does little to stop the wildlife scattering and returning the next day.
 
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Veedrac said:
@Radvic

You pretty much agree with me numbers wise. You could certainly clear an area given enough time, but I feel we're multiple orders of magnitude short before the damage is fast enough for it to actually be a maintainable state.

Clearing out large areas of land with sticks of TNT sounds extremely laborious, and it only gets worse once each stick adds rubble to the place (EDIT: Not actually a problem; they dissipate after 20 minutes). The main problem, though, is this does little to stop the wildlife scattering and returning the next day.
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So, each drop would cover about as much area as the MEW wall takes up. We can probably make the MEW walls horizontal, which should kill everything except underground threats. In that case, each cast would cover about 2.85 m^3 / 0.3 m = 9.5 square meters (per 6 CP).

So, if we want to clear out a football field, that would take about 6000/9.5 X 6 = 3800 CP. As far as keeping our progress from day to day, we should be able to solve that with force wall seals I think.

So, I believe it would be doable, but would take a while (e.g. weeks).

Edit: probably not quite as powerful as I thought a few weeks ago when I first proposed it, but still within the realm of possibility. We could also just, like, fight the random monsters?
 
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I would like some comment, criticism, and suggestion on my action plan.

Radvic said:
So, each drop would cover about as much area as the MEW wall takes up. We can probably make the MEW walls horizontal, which should kill everything except underground threats. In that case, each cast would cover about 2.85 m^3 / 0.3 m = 9.5 square meters (per 6 CP).

So, if we want to clear out a football field, that would take about 6000/9.5 X 6 = 3800 CP. As far as keeping our progress from day to day, we should be able to solve that with force wall seals I think.

So, I believe it would be doable, but would take a while (e.g. weeks).
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Force Wall seals don't last forever. Digging a permanent ditch and making permanent wall will, though.
 
Anyways, the point of the action is just to have a relatively safe way of clearing out relatively large parts of land which are far, far away from civilization. I think that should be possible with our air superiority. If it takes the form of dropping hunks of granite on beasts far below us or not is another issue.
 
faflec said:
I mean...I guess?

Maybe phrase it better so we don't have the knee-jerk "DON'T SPLIT THE PARTY" reaction, because I know I had that when I first read the thing.
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The idea is to have Mari-sensei and Noburi do the medical training and merchant research, while Hazō and Kagome-sensei do sealing research, while Keiko spend time researching Pangolin politics.
 
faflec said:
I mean...I guess?

Maybe phrase it better so we don't have the knee-jerk "DON'T SPLIT THE PARTY" reaction, because I know I had that when I first read the thing.
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Before we got Kagome to Join up we trusted Mari to keep the party safe. So don't see how having her and Noburi going of on there own is any more dangerous than anything we did at the start of the quest.

Also our base has Kagome level of protections around it so I trust that to keep Hazou safe. Also been here over a month and there is no evidence that anyone is currently close to finding us.
 
[X] Action Plan: A List of All Lists That Do Not Contain Themselves

[X] Action Plan: Forward Motion
Kiba said:
Don't spend much time on this before the team Leaf discussion in a later update, since we might not go to Hashimoto
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This part can be edited out, since we already had the leaf discussion.

Radvic said:
So, the most basic way we do this is by setting up a 5SB platform a ways above our target, then use MEW on stuff and drop it. If we are 1 km above ground, and make a 100 kg block, it'll be ~ 10 m/s^2 X 100 kg X 1000 m = 1,000,000 J/cast, which is about a stick of dynamite. We can do this for as many pieces of wood as we can cast MEW on. So, it's basically a bunch of directed sticks of dynamite as many times as we want above an area. So, probably able to clear, but not bunker busting levels. Bunker busting will require a little more effort (e.g. cast MEW 10 times before dropping the tower, or also throw a PMYF down or something). That said, dropped 100 kg objects will be much better at doing damage into the ground as opposed to dynamite (since it'll basically be shaped charges). At the very least, it would be lower risk than walking down in the area and killing things, and I suspect would be sufficient to clear an area given enough time. Not likely to be something we can do to clear an area within a few hours (until we solve the air pressure problem).
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Given the density of granite, the minimum MEW size would be closer to 70 sticks/cast. If Hazou used all his chakra, he could get about 1000 dynamite sticks equivalent without overcharging.
 
Entirely restructured the plan and split the team.

Which leaves me screaming in Kagome, because of said split.

Kiba said:
If people are ignoring HAI, I am going to aggregate all my plans into one.

[X] Action Plan: Forward Motion

Goal:

1. Research Seals.
2. Train.
2. Plan what to do.

Methods:

We're splitting the party to do several things.

Action Items:
  • Keiko in the Summon Realm: Pangolin Society Research(See Spoiler).
  • Keiko will talk to Pandaa or go to the summon realm and ask question.
  • Keiko will clear any questions she might have with Pandaa to avoid getting squashed or offending the Pangolins.
  • Questions:
    • Who is the Pankorator?
    • Why is sealing prohibited in the Summon Realm?
    • Why did the Condor started the first war?
  • Goal: We want to help Noburi finish his medical training safely.
  • Steps:
    • Let Noburi know that Hazo is supportive of his ambitions as a medic-nin and that we want to help him on that path.
    • Don't spend much time on this before the team Leaf discussion in a later update, since we might not go to Hashimoto.
    • Discuss potential issues, and how we might address them.
    • Suggest that we should be cautious.
  • Supporting Information; Potential Issues
    • Hashimoto might not want to teach Noburi
      • Ask Noburi what things Hashimoto might want (ryo, Macerators...) and offer to help with getting these things.
    • Hashimoto might reject Noburi completely no matter the rewards.
      • Ask for referal to another medic-nin that the team could learn from.
    • Hunter-nin might notice Noburi and/or his barrel.
      • Bring up Noburi disguising his barrel as a travel sack or appropriate covering.
      • Suggest Noburi obfuscate his movement through clever Henge use:
        • Noburi + Inoue go to Hashimoto's.
          • When Noburi leaves, Inoue creates a Water Clone Henge'd as Noburi.
          • Inoue & clone leave.
          • Repeat when Noburi leaves (at a set time?).

Misc (To be done offscreen/optional)
  1. Textbooks from Leaf (Hazō Study Plan)
Contingency:
  • Escape paths:
    • Have traps set up so we can escape to the southwest river or the eastern coast (depending on the situation). More if Kagome-/Inoue-sensei say so.
  • Jiraiya calls us in:
    • Figure out what country we're going to, then draft a evac route to get there.
    • Will probably involve water/coastal routes.
  • A wild ninjas appears:
    • Make as many observations about the situation and the potential enemy as is possible in a split second.
    • End the update.
  • Disguises with other people: Face-concealing masks, Henge over all this. All the time.
    • Of course if we're talking to stronger ninjas (Jiraiya) we don't do this if Inoue-sensei doesn't. Be polite.
  • Sealing testing:
    • Get Kagome's input on everything first.
    • Test seals with clones, plants, etc. to examine effects on them.
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