Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Kiba · Feb 28, 2017

Cariyaga said:
The point of that is so that the team's bodies are not sticky.

To the extent that our team would be able to use skywalkers to dodge goo bomb attacks.

Veedrac · Feb 28, 2017

{X} Action: Combat Training

Cariyaga said:
Timed Macerators on shurikens result in an explosive-like aoe spread of the contents at 20 m/s.

Why 20m/s?

To be approximate, the momentum behind that is equivalent to 25 times that of a car moving at 60 mph (while boosting).

Momentum of the wall is a nearly useless measure when one object is so much heavier than the other and stuck to the ground. More on this later.

air dome seals

We can consider using chakra-adhesion triggered air domes as insta-shields, once that research is done. Might be too much of a giveaway, but quicker triggering is never a bad thing otherwise.

Vecht said:
By my estimates, restricting it to a directional 5 degree by 5 degree cone would net an additional 40 db.

Assuming that doesn't change the energy output, and that we can focus them all, and that sound doesn't diffuse, and ignoring the disadvantage that it's no longer a general AOE effect, etc.

Not a bad idea, but not quite as free as you make it sound.

Also mentioned this on Discord, but that quantity is given in momentum. To calculate force imparted you have to consider delta time as well; F = dp/dt.

Assuming we can transfer most of the momentum in about 0.05 seconds (time for MEW to traverse 1m) this yields a staggering 20 meganewtons.

This is not valid; the momentum cannot feasibly be measured from the pushing object. You need to measure from the pushed object, and multiply by velocity. Transferring all of the momentum from a heavier object would require the hit object to end up moving faster than the pushing one!

It's worth noting that if Hazō can punch through someone's face, a Jōnin is going to find a human-speed punch, even from the strongest humans, to be rather laughable. The main advantage here is range and flexibility, which admittedly is a big advantage.

Numbers given are assuming 36 chakra for the ability at level 12. About as much as a boosted Taijutsu punch for Hazou.

The idea is to use MEW in combination with Living Roots, smokescreens from Macerators, and gasmasks from the purifier seals. Or just in conjunction with Living Roots for long range assassination. Given that only high Jounin or S-class would have both the speed and awareness to avoid a MEW to the back of the head from 150m away, this seems rather strong.

Vecht said:
{X} Action: Keiko 5SB Trading with Pangolins (Trades with Pangolins)

Generally OK with this, mostly seeing as it has already been voted for and the watchtowers aren't really that vital to us. Also a useful stepping stone.

{X} Action: Keiko 5SB Trading with Pangolins (Trades with Pangolins)

{X} Action: Mari's Fugue (Support Mari)

Bit iffy on this plan. I would make it clear that the points of reflection are not actually talking points, since some of them would go over really awkwardly.

Honestly I'd rather we get something proper going here, like we did last time with Mari, but that's on me for taking a break

! Right now the plan just said "confront Mari", which is not idea.

Soo... not voting for this, but won't be opposing either.

{X} Action: Seals Solve Everything (Increase Combat Ability)

They do, don't they?

Hazou should discuss invisible ink with Kagome in more detail. Once both are satisfied that the idea carries only acceptable levels of risk, Hazou attempts to produce a prototype invisible seal.

He should practice drawing with normal ink behind an opaque cover, so he can check that his technique is safe.

Generally OK with this plan, but I'd rather more focus on the important sealing projects than some far less interesting side-projects you added there. I swear there was a plan for this, but I'm clearly misremembering.

{X} Misc: Study Texts from Leaf

Yes.

{X} Misc: Study Texts from Leaf

Kiba said:
{X} Misc: Alternative Carpentry Projects

This seems like a poor use of time, especially to prepare for a mere pantograph. Would much rather do zeppelintech.

What should I do here? Vote

{X} Misc: Don't do "Alternative Carpentry Projects"

? This is my main criticism of the automated aggregation system, FWIW.

OliWhail · Feb 28, 2017

Vecht said:
Please let us know if this is correct for MEW or if it just managed to slip through TGR.

We'll add it to the discussion list - I'd avoid making plans based on this for now

Kiba · Feb 28, 2017

Veedrac said:
{X} Action: Combat Training

{X} Misc: Study Texts from Leaf

This seems like a poor use of time, especially to prepare for a mere pantograph. Would much rather do zeppelintech.

What should I do here? Vote

{X} Misc: Don't do "Alternative Carpentry Projects"

Why do you think this is exclusive to prepping for a pantograph? The carpentry skill is needed to make zeppelintech and other gadgets.

We are going to need to cut something, and we are going to need a good ruler anyway(if we don't have one).

Oneiros · Feb 28, 2017

Kiba said:
To the extent that our team would be able to use skywalkers to dodge goo bomb attacks.

From the description don't think it's entirely clear if they explode out in a sphere or just a circle.

But getting it to explode in a circle or cylinder shouldn't be to big of a modification

Kiba · Feb 28, 2017

-=PlanBot=-
(Data from Page 1724, PostId 7969098) How to Use PlanBot
Voting ends on Wednesday, March the 1st at 12:00 PM (UTC), in 10.1 hours.

Plan Name: Hivemind Aggregation Initiative Author: Vecht Voters: Kiba, Cariyaga Num Votes: 3 Plan Name: Hazou Training: Seal-augmented Combat Author: Vecht Num Votes: 1 Total Voters: 3

-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-
[X] Hivemind Aggregation Initiative

Ignore all other plans! Disclaimer: -- This plan is an automated aggregation of input from multiple players. -- The most up-to-date version of this plan can always be found here.
Goals:

Trades with Pangolins
Support Mari
Increase Combat Ability

Actions:

Misc: (To be done as time permits, or offscreen)

Training:

Contingency Plan:

Contingency: Same as Always

Contributed Plans by Goal:

Plan Name: Action: Keiko 5SB Trading with Pangolins (Trades with Pangolins) Author: Vecht Voters: Kiba, Veedrac Num Votes: 3

Plan Name: Action: Mari's Fugue (Support Mari) Author: Vecht Voters: Kiba Num Votes: 2 Plan Name: Action: Fixing Mari (Support Mari) Author: Kiba Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Action: Seals Solve Everything (Increase Combat Ability) Author: Vecht Voters: Kiba Num Votes: 2

Plan Name: Action: Combat Training Author: Cariyaga Voters: Veedrac Num Votes: 2

Plan Name: Misc: Study Texts from Leaf Author: Vecht Voters: Kiba, Veedrac Num Votes: 3 Plan Name: Misc: Alternative Carpentry Projects Author: Kiba Num Votes: 1 Plan Name: Misc: Don't do "Alternative Carpentry Projects" Author: Veedrac Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Keiko Training: Continue from last plan Author: Vecht Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Noburi Training: Continue from last plan Author: Vecht Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Hazou Training: Seal-augmented Combat Author: Vecht Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Contingency: Same as Always Author: Vecht Num Votes: 1

Total Contributors: 4

-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-

Veedrac · Feb 28, 2017

Kiba said:
Why do you think this is exclusive to prepping for a pantograph?

If we want a hot air balloon, there are much more direct things we should be doing. Focusing on minutiae is not the best way to get stuff done right now there. A basic hot air balloon does not need any fancy engineering outside of making a balloon casing, which is mostly a question of sowing.

Cariyaga · Feb 28, 2017

Veedrac said:
Why 20m/s?

Because that's the speed that they release at.

Kiba · Feb 28, 2017

Veedrac said:
If we want a hot air balloon, there are much more direct things we should be doing. Focusing on minutiae is not the best way to get stuff done right now there. A basic hot air balloon does not need any fancy engineering outside of making a balloon casing, which is mostly a question of sowing.

Feel free to make better miscellaneous plan, then.

For what it's worth, ruler and cutting tool are intended to make our R&D effort of sealtech gadgets much easier down the line. Storage boxes just make it easier to stay organized, and store more stuff in a given storage seal.

Vecht · Feb 28, 2017

Veedrac said:
I would make it clear that the points of reflection are not actually talking points

Vecht said:
These should not be taken as any exact wording, but instead a rough outline of Hazou's thought process.

??

(Edit: I have made it more explicit still.)

Veedrac said:
What should I do here? Vote

{X} Misc: Don't do "Alternative Carpentry Projects"

? This is my main criticism of the automated aggregation system, FWIW.

No, if you don't like a plan you can use {exclaimation point} Veto <planname>

Any plan with more than half as many vetos as votes will be ignored. You can unvote for your (anti-)plan afterwards. There will simply not be a second misc action included.

Note: Every person gets exactly one veto per voting round to prevent abuse.

And also, this isn't by any means set in stone. This is really the first voting round people have made use of it. I'm more than willing to put in additional work to make it better. I can't do that if people don't give me feedback.

---

Edit:

Veedrac said:
Assuming that doesn't change the energy output, and that we can focus them all, and that sound doesn't diffuse, and ignoring the disadvantage that it's no longer a general AOE effect, etc.

Not a bad idea, but not quite as free as you make it sound.

Vecht said:
estimates

???

Yes, simplifying assumptions; proof of concept.

Veedrac said:
Transferring all of the momentum from a heavier object would require the hit object to end up moving faster than the pushing one!

Yes, this is exactly what happens when you transfer a large amount of momentum from a heavy object to a lighter object in a minuscule amount of time.

It's also why people can go flying out of windows in a car crash under the right conditions if they aren't wearing a seatbelt. I would link that too, but I don't think it would be appropriate.

This is not magic, it's physics.

---

Veedrac I really do appreciate your criticisms, but it feels like you are just being deliberately dismissive here.

ContextBot · Feb 28, 2017

I know that I don't post much, but this line:

"Hazou realizes that Mari really does need the team as much as they need her. Hazou resolves to confront Mari with all this in mind. He can even be the one to break the news to the others if necessary. It is something that must be done, and if it comes to the worst, the practicalities of their situation will prevent the team from falling apart in the short term."

concerns me. This sounds like Hazou tells the group even if Mari is against it, which doesn't sound like a smart move. She did tell Hazou this in private because she apparently trusts him, not so that he can go around and tell everyone.

Maybe rewrite it so that this is only done if Mari can be persuaded to tell the others? Or do people want to force it?

Cariyaga · Feb 28, 2017

ContextBot said:
Or do people want to force it?

Pretty sure that's not intended; thanks for the help!

Vecht · Feb 28, 2017

ContextBot said:
I know that I don't post much, but this line:

"Hazou realizes that Mari really does need the team as much as they need her. Hazou resolves to confront Mari with all this in mind. He can even be the one to break the news to the others if necessary. It is something that must be done, and if it comes to the worst, the practicalities of their situation will prevent the team from falling apart in the short term."

concerns me. This sounds like Hazou tells the group even if Mari is against it, which doesn't sound like a smart move. She did tell Hazou this in private because she apparently trusts him, not so that he can go around and tell everyone.

Maybe rewrite it so that this is only done if Mari can be persuaded to tell the others? Or do people want to force it?

Yes, good catch. I have a tendency to phrase things a little more forcefully than I intend. I have trained this specifically to counteract other biases of mine. Something along the lines of "easier to ask forgiveness than permission". I find that "hey, I'm going to do the thing" gets better responses than "should I do the thing?"

Edit:

Vecht said:
{X} Action: Mari's Fugue (Support Mari)

Reflect on Mari's wellbeing and the team's situation in general.

Do this when he has free time, like during routine menial tasks or before bed.

Hazou is concerned that Mari-sensei is obviously under a lot of stress, and that allowing that to simmer and for her internal tension to build is not healthy. Additionally, she may decide to do something drastic soon if we don't intervene.

Points to consider during reflection. These should not be taken as any exact wording or talking points, but instead a rough outline of Hazou's thought process.

Mari very clearly doesn't think much of herself right now. She thinks she's a worthless teacher, and that the team would have been better off without her.

However, In spite of his misgivings with what she's done, Hazou thinks he's probably better off and happier now than he would have been in Mist. Sure, he'd have been safer there, but under someone like Yagura, he'd have inevitably ended up on the asswipe's shitlist, much like she did. Not to mention his grander ambitions...

Still, Hazou understands that Noburi and Keiko lost much more than him, and they may not be as forgiving as he is.

He realizes this is likely the source of much of Mari's inner turmoil; having to deal with the reality of her actions while the genin look up to her as if she were a saint. And she doesn't feel like she can "come clean" because it really isn't a certain thing that Noburi or Keiko would forgive her.

(Thinking back to their previous conversation...) Not to mention, Mari probably doesn't want to influence them to do so for her own ends. She knows well that she can, and she probably doesn't know how to not be manipulative in a situation like this. She might even believe that she has unduly influenced Hazou in that regard. He probably can't do much to dissuade her from that...

...However, Hazou does believe the rest of the team would come around eventually, of their own volition. And even both of them hating her now is better than Mari doing something drastic.

Besides, the team needs her. Not just as Mari the incredible jounin, or as Mari the infiltration specialist, or as Mari the teacher, but as Mari the den mother and protector, Mari the friend and sister.

Furthermore, pity party aside, Mari is highly competent. She's a high level jounin at... however the heck old she is. Give it ten years and Hazou bets she can give Jiraiya a run for his money. Especially with his [Hazou's] seals!

Sudden sense of the world twisting on its head as Hazou realizes how young Mari really is. Whoa! He'd never really thought about it before, because she'd always seemed so strong and... not unapproachable, but kind of above it all.

But she's not. And that was as much for her benefit as it was for the team's. And that's okay. She's tired because she's so young, yet she's had to deal with all this crap, and still hold the team up by herself for so long. So he understands why she feels like she needs a break.

And he kind of agrees, honestly. But only kind of. She does deserve a break -- but just that. A break. Hazou will never be able to think of her as anything but Mari-sensei, and she's done a damned good job at teaching no matter what she thinks. It isn't like she's been in a village with people to back her up. She's been all on her own this whole time, and she's kept the team alive and together. Not to mention Kagome...

Hazou realizes that Mari really does need the team as much as they need her. He resolves to confront Mari with all this in mind, and persuade her to "come clean" to the team. He can even be the one to break the news to the others if necessary, and in the worst case, the practicalities of the situation will keep the team together in the short term.

Confront Mari after he has had time to reflect, and when it is most opportune.

Updated.

Note to self: In the future, poke people incessantly to post their own plans to HAI rather than doing it for them.

Edit edit:

Vecht said:
{X} Action: Seals Solve Everything (Increase Combat Ability)

Take the time to:

Complete all voted for training plans.

Do all the training and seal integration specified here.

Do all (applicable) testing.

Allow time for Kagome to complete the Skywalker research.

Hazou should discuss invisible ink with Kagome in more detail, particularly for opsec applications with Skywalkers.

Emphasize that his Iron Nerve abilities really will let him produce exact replicas of the seals without having to see what he draws.

Once Kagome is satisfied that the idea carries only acceptable levels of risk, Hazou attempts to produce a prototype invisible seal.

The prototype should be a seal that Hazou has mastered, to minimise risks.

If this works successfully, Hazou can create all of Kagome's seal blanks for Skywalkers (though leave Kagome to infuse them).

Afterwards, get Kagome to look over the notes for Jiraiya's seals. Get rough estimates for research time for these based on how difficult they seem.

Meanwile, each member of the team focuses on their training and incorporating the new seals into their combat styles.

Once Hazou's training is complete:

Work on a Timed Macerator v2 variant using the same principle as PMYF.

This is mostly for Keiko, but will hopefully prove useful for other applications.

(If time permits) Work on another Macerator v2 variant that spits out projectiles with different varying spread angles. At least two would be great: One highly focused in a small area, and one with a much wider area.

Do not spend too much time on this one. If it takes more than a couple days after producing the timed variant, leave this for later. Or if everyone is done with training, don't even bother.

Practice integrating macerators and skywalkers into his Roki style. Spar with other members of the team to work out kinks, using nonlethal ammo (or just colored dye).

A few Macerators around the waist for a quick smokescreen production would also work well. Practice using this to facilitate escapes.

He might get something like Kagome's rings for his birthday. If he doesn't, make sure to ask for them.

Produce a large quantity of all appropriate seals, as well as a couple sets of air domes for everyone.

Keiko in particular should not be throwing anything that doesn't have SOME kind of seal on it unless she explicitly doesn't need to for tactical purposes.

Write out all the seal blanks ahead of time and then get Noburi to stand by while he infuses them. Noburi is there to provide emergency medical assistance and spare chakra water if needed. Offer him something nice in exchange for his help.

Do infusions in a seal bunker with clones nearby to immediately Kawarimi with at the slightest sign of trouble. Do not take any risks. If something unexpected happens, de-ass the area posthaste and MEW it up.

Use timed Macerators on shurikens for an explosive-like aoe spread of the contents.

Do the same with Kunai; she can probably make it directional with practice.

"Poor Man's Shadow Shuriken"

Try connecting lots of shuriken with ninja wire, and using weak adhesive or just putting them in a fragile box to seal up in Timed Macerators. Practice using these as well.

She can also just release large blocks of stone (MEW?) from Kunai with regular PMYF seals.

Highly situational, but if she thinks an enemy will try to just deflect or sidestep a Kunai, she can surprise them with a massive boulder zooming at their face with Kunai speeds.

If Kei's aim is good enough, it might be possible to pin weapons so precisely as to be able to activate barrier or multiple-seal techniques attached to them. We can consider experimenting with this -- try using Zephyr's Reach, too, for greater control.

Air Dome seals will be immaculate for him in longer fights; develop a quick-deploy method. Use these in conjunction with high-powered Misterators.

If mist is present before they're activated, he is able to drain through them, so we definitely need to test how much damage Air Domes can take.

If someone can't beat their way through the air dome quick enough, it's close a win condition for us. We just keep them in an enclosed area while Noburi drains.

Work on developing and coordinating tactics like this with the rest of the team.

Get utility belts for everyone. Put misterators on them, smokescreens, and whatever we can fit on them that might be useful.

Work out a way for everyone to use air dome seals quickly for defense; maybe a stick or wooden shield tied to some body part with the seals on both sides of it?

Practice using everyone's new combat strategies on concert with one another.

Determine if Macerator v2s work better for Misterator applications.

Test using ice in Macerators.

This could be a powerful weapon as it would leave no trace or indication as to what did the damage.

Further test using poisoned ice (or ice laced with paralytic) against chakra beasts to determine effectiveness. Ask Noburi for assistance here.

One they are complete, have everyone practice using Skywalkers in combat, particularly to enhance their TacMov and evasion capabilities.

Have Keiko teach Vacuum Step to Mari.

Have Mari use a clone to test using Vacuum Step to escape up in the air, and then using Skywalkers to stay there. If this works, we may want to invest points in everyone getting Vacuum Step for quick escapes with Skywalkers.

Test using masses of Goo Bombs to slow down enemies while avoiding the same using Skywalkers.

Practice enhancing stealth and evasion by skywalking two inches off of the ground.

Updated this too. Pared it down to only currently applicable items and merged with relevant elements of @Cariyaga's plan.

Cariyaga · Feb 28, 2017

{X} Action: Keiko 5SB Trading with Pangolins (Trades with Pangolins)
{X} Action: Mari's Fugue (Support Mari)
{X} Action: Seals Solve Everything (Increase Combat Ability)
{X} Misc: Study Texts from Leaf
{-} Action: Combat Training

Vecht · Mar 1, 2017

-=PlanBot=-
(Data from Page 1724, PostId 7969098)
How to Use PlanBot

Voting ends on Wednesday, March the 1st at 12:00 PM (UTC), in 5.8 hours.

Plan Name: Hivemind Aggregation Initiative
Author: Vecht
Voters: Kiba, Cariyaga
Num Votes: 3

Plan Name: Hazou Training: Seal-augmented Combat
Author: Vecht
Num Votes: 1

Total Voters: 3

-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-
[X] Hivemind Aggregation Initiative

Ignore all other plans!

Disclaimer:
-- This plan is an automated aggregation of input from multiple players.
-- The most up-to-date version of this plan can always be found here.

Goals:

Trades with Pangolins
Support Mari
Increase Combat Ability

Actions:

Misc: (To be done as time permits, or offscreen)

Training:

Contingency Plan:

Contingency: Same as Always

Contributed Plans by Goal:

Plan Name: Action: Keiko 5SB Trading with Pangolins (Trades with Pangolins)
Author: Vecht
Voters: Kiba, Veedrac, Cariyaga
Num Votes: 4

Plan Name: Action: Mari's Fugue (Support Mari)
Author: Vecht
Voters: Kiba, Cariyaga
Num Votes: 3

Plan Name: Action: Fixing Mari (Support Mari)
Author: Kiba
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Action: Seals Solve Everything (Increase Combat Ability)
Author: Vecht
Voters: Kiba, Cariyaga
Num Votes: 3

Plan Name: Action: Combat Training
Author: Veedrac
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Misc: Study Texts from Leaf
Author: Vecht
Voters: Kiba, Veedrac, Cariyaga
Num Votes: 4

Plan Name: Misc: Alternative Carpentry Projects
Author: Kiba
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Misc: Don't do "Alternative Carpentry Projects"
Author: Veedrac
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Keiko Training: Continue from last plan
Author: Vecht
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Noburi Training: Continue from last plan
Author: Vecht
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Hazou Training: Seal-augmented Combat
Author: Vecht
Num Votes: 1

Plan Name: Contingency: Same as Always
Author: Vecht
Num Votes: 1

Total Contributors: 4

-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-

---

I will soon(-ish) be looking into making this more user friendly and making sure it works cross platform and with various browsers.

@eaglejarl did you ever get it to work?

Edit: Made some adjustments.
Todo: Change out "url" codes for "post" codes to cut down on size. Just learned that was a thing today...

schlega · Mar 1, 2017

[X] Hivemind Aggregation Initiative

Veedrac · Mar 1, 2017

Vecht said:
Veedrac I really do appreciate your criticisms, but it feels like you are just being deliberately dismissive here.

I appreciate that your trust in me is so great that when I say stupid things you assume I'm just being difficult

.

[On Mari] (Edit: I have made it more explicit still.)

I don't mean to say that you hadn't said this, but without any content under "Confront Mari", it's nontrivially likely the QMs would default to the previous idea, even if they weren't directly intended otherwise. Saying "x is intended for y" isn't the same as saying "x is intended exclusively for y". That said, I do appreciate the improvements you've made since.

No, if you don't like a plan you can use {exclaimation point} Veto <planname>

{-} Misc: Don't do "Alternative Carpentry Projects"
{!} Veto Misc: Alternative Carpentry Projects

I have actually read this before. Blame my sleep-deprived brain that I forgot!

Note: Every person gets exactly one veto per voting round to prevent abuse.

That sounds like a bad idea in the other direction. Perhaps make it so with more than one veto they only count for one vote each?

I dunno though; I don't imagine we're going to be seeing much abuse in either direction, so I'd rather keep people's options open.

And also, this isn't by any means set in stone. This is really the first voting round people have made use of it. I'm more than willing to put in additional work to make it better. I can't do that if people don't give me feedback.

Hard to give feedback before I've finished trying it out! I'm actually impressed at how well it's working, bar a few niggles. Will put it on my list of things to write about.

[On alarm seals in a restricted cone] Yes, simplifying assumptions; proof of concept.

I don't consider those valid simplifications, though. Kagome's shaped charge seals aren't sniping people from half a mile away, so why would you assume applying the same technique to sound would produce that level of amplification?

Yes, this is exactly what happens when you transfer a large amount of momentum from a heavy object to a lighter object in a minuscule amount of time.

I phrased my objection pretty stupidly, I admit, but I'm still sticking by the point.

Consider one extreme. Imagine a walking pace, 100 ton truck hitting a rabbit. Would you expect the rabbit to go flying? No; it's going to just get pushed along the ground, and probably hop off. Consider doubling that 100 ton truck's weight, to 200 ton. Notice how this makes literally no difference to the rabbit.

Why is this different to your videos? Primarily, IMO, it's not. A golf club hits far faster than the swing of the club, but the energy transferred all comes through its speed. It just happens that the speed is amplified by the fact this is an elastic collision, with elastic materials. When you hit the ball, the materials bounce, and that's what allows them to impart speed so effectively. But note that they're not transferring an amount of momentum even close to that in the club itself, as the club doesn't stop dead.

Your first video is even more suspect because it involves air compression and twice-indirection. Firstly, the ball can push far faster than it's going because when it hits the ground the air in it is compressed, exerting pressure. This pressure can easily result in significant speed increases, because the plane the ball hits is a lot bigger than the ball on top of it. But secondly, note how you've got that twice-indirection to build up speed, the real measure by which force is imparted, and that these balls are colliding elastically. Note still how the bottom two balls are not transferring a significant fraction of their momentum.

Whereas with the rock-vs-flesh, or truck-vs-rabbit scenario, the fact flesh is inelastic means you're going to be gradually building the object up to speed. You won't have time for significant material springs, since a person will just deform around the impact. And transferring most of the momentum, rather than the small sliver like your videos show, is simply implausible.

Expecting to transfer all that momentum to a human body means expecting that body to reach 14 km/s, and doing so in 0.05s means reaching 30,000g of acceleration. Even a perfectly elastic collision is going to be nowhere near this level because of basic energy conservation.

It's also why people can go flying out of windows in a car crash under the right conditions if they aren't wearing a seatbelt. I would link that too, but I don't think it would be appropriate.

People fly out of windows by preserving their momentum, not by adding to it.

Velorien · Mar 1, 2017

Voting is over.

Action Plan-like thing: Hivemind Aggregation Initiative is victorious.

4 voters this week. You guys are lucky that @Dark as Silver wasn't around.

Kiba · Mar 1, 2017

Velorien said:
Voting is over.

Action Plan-like thing: Hivemind Aggregation Initiative is victorious.

4 voters this week. You guys are lucky that @Dark as Silver wasn't around.

What a disappointing turnout. I told people to vote, and they didn't vote!

Velorien · Mar 1, 2017

OK, people, I'm going to level with you here. This plan is unacceptable, and here is why.

Action: Keiko 5SB Trading with Pangolins (Trades with Pangolins)

This bit is perfectly fine, and I will happily write it.

Action: Mari's Fugue (Support Mari)
"Reflect on Mari's wellbeing and the team's situation in general."
"Points to consider during reflection."
"Confront Mari after he has had time to reflect, and when it is most opportune."

This is not a plan. It's character development (which is fine, except that I still don't understand what it is Mari's supposed to be "coming clean" about) followed by a statement of intent.

Action: Seals Solve Everything (Increase Combat Ability)

Where do I start?

Well, first off, I can't write this. Not even if I dropped everything for the next day and a half. Even if I decided to do as much as possible offscreen, we'd take up all my writing time just with the QM discussion needed to make all the necessary rules decisions and determine the results of your tests.

Second, there are too many points where you want the QMs to do your planning for you. Instructions like "Work on developing and coordinating tactics like this with the rest of the team" and "Work out a way for everyone to use air dome seals quickly for defense" demand that we three active QMs substitute our creativity for that of the player base. That's both impractical and against the spirit of the quest.

Third, this would be a ridiculously long timeskip. Remember that statement we keep making about how the outside world will keep changing while you're in timeskip mode, leaving you unable to respond until it's too late? Just sayin'.

Kiba · Mar 1, 2017

I am a bit miffed and frustrated in general today for what happened in the last two weeks.

Here's why:

Real life interference. Plus whatever happens to have time sucking away. Which leads to dissatisfaction and disappointment when a new chapter does not arrive or arrived with only parts completed. Sealing research is constantly delayed.

Hivemind not at its best moment. Extremely low voter turnout, last minute scramble for a plan, or a poor plan in general.

Veedrac' s veto without replacement. I am annoyed at having my plan rejected without a better miscellaneous plan in place. Now we have to wait until Sunday to either implement my misc plan or a hot air balloon plan, both of which would lead to forward motion.

Despite being in a safe place with no eyes on the wall, we're in a really rough patch after the debacle in the Konoha arc. I don't know if it's just me, but the quest morale might be at an all time low.

Inferno Vulpix · Mar 1, 2017

Well, since this seems to be a pressing issue, I guess I'll do my best to suggest alterations to the plan.

For Action: Seals Solve Everything (Increase Combat Ability), we have a problem in that we want to do too much at once. We probably don't want to timeskip this update until we've resolved the Mari situation, so we should keep the action short.

I suggest we limit Hazou's Sealing combat integration to incorporating macerators into his combat style, likewise with Keiko, and Noburi would incorporate Air Domes into his Misterator style. These also seem to me like some of the least creativity-substitution (especially Noburi), but I'll still see if I can think of more specific things to mention.

For Action: Mari's Fugue (Support Mari), it is my opinion that we've discussed the possible actions enough, for confronting Mari, but forgot to actually figure out which one to use and follow through. Talking points I remember include: Getting one on one conversations between the rest of the team and Mari. Coming along with Kagome for his conversation to provide support for him and put him in a frame of mind where he can use his sheer honesty to help convince Mari. Leaving Mari alone since she talked to us alone for a reason. The importance of making sure this is out in the open so that, on top of everything else, Mari isn't keeping this a secret from them (seriously, that can't be good for her).

I'm not the one who made the plan and I'm not in a position to force through a probably-doable plan just because I responded first. But this is what I suggest:

Seals Solve Everything Modification:

Hazou and Keiko get used to Macerators in combat.
- Hazou's Roki is based on deception, if he has a Macerator in each hand while fighting he can turn a feint into a threat in its own right and box in enemies.
- Keiko should experiment with the speed of the kunai and shuriken she throws and how that affects the behaviour of the macerator's payload. She might end up developing a slower throw to increase conical spread of the payload.
Noburi gets used to Air Domes and Misterators together.
- There shouldn't be too much tricky here, he just has to get used to placing them quickly and making sure there's enough mist in the air to drain through.
These modifications take place instead of the original action, being meant to reduce it to a mangable size.

Mari's Fugue Modification:

~~Meet with Noburi and Keiko discreetly, and tell them about Hazou's concerns after his reflection.~~
Suggest to them that they instigate conversations with Mari about her feeling down lately, but offer alternate suggestion of everyone gathering together to show support if the two of them would prefer that.
Tell them about how Kagome might not take the situation well in the wrong context, and that Hazou intends to bring Kagome into a conversation with Mari as well after telling Kagome what to expect so he won't be surprised.
~~Mari will likely see right through this, so as soon as or even before she mentions something of the sort we'd need to bring out the solidarity card and prove to her that we still support her.~~
Something to bring up during the conversation(s) with Mari is the option of going to Rice and fulfilling our debt to the mayor there. It's relatively safe and non-hostile, with Rice's attitude towards external ninja meaning hunter-nin would have a harder time reaching us if we end up in the favour of the locals, and Mari can not feel bad about herself for manipulating a good person like her.
After further deliberation, reduce this plan to only the character development mentioned in the original. Make no confrontation and keep her secret.

I'd appreciate any critiques of the suggestions or underlying premises, extra ideas or details, and/or a voice of support for pushing these through if you agree with them, so that we can have an actual plan again.

Kiba · Mar 1, 2017

@Inferno Vulpix I am of the opinion we can do combat training and seal integration after Sunday's update, rather than squeezing it all into one update. We have too much to do for Hazō and team anyway.

Inferno Vulpix · Mar 1, 2017

Keep it down to the Pangolins scene and the Mari scene(s)? That could work. Potentially we could have the Mari scene where we confer with Keiko and Noburi happen as we're incorporating the seals, but we could make dropping the scene altogether work.

However, as much as I'm not in a position to push through modifications unilaterally, I'm in even less of a position to decide what actions get made, since they were (technically) voted on. If anyone else has thoughts on the matter, I encourage them to share.

Kiba · Mar 1, 2017

Inferno Vulpix said:
Keep it down to the Pangolins scene and the Mari scene(s)? That could work. Potentially we could have the Mari scene where we confer with Keiko and Noburi happen as we're incorporating the seals, but we could make dropping the scene altogether work.

However, as much as I'm not in a position to push through modifications unilaterally, I'm in even less of a position to decide what actions get made, since they were (technically) voted on. If anyone else has thoughts on the matter, I encourage them to share.

I am just saying that we should cut down the sealing plan to just the research portion.

Once the research stuff progress to our satisifaction, we can start thinking about integrating seals into our combat capability.

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Handsome Gentleperson

Handsome Gentleperson

Handsome Gentleperson