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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Rune research for Chapter 668 and 670
  • Informational
    • As previously mentioned, chapters 668 and 670 did contain research, which wasn't initially included in those chapters. Here are the corresponding research results. Remember that Hazou didn't have access to Noburi's chakra in this period, which is why he is only pursuing one runic research track.

    Chapter 668, Day 1
    Research Capacitor Rune.

    Hazō (Primordial Sealing): 23 + 21 (crossover bonus from DoB-boosted Sealing) + 12 (Disciple of the Beyond) - 3 = 53
    Hazō (Earthshaping): 50 - 6 (timeladder down) + 3 = 47

    Hazō completes the Capacitor Rune! The rune has a central component (a sphere roughly half a meter across) that chakra is pulled towards. Using the eighth seal in the jinchūriki chain, Hazō can see a mass of environmental chakra being drawn into the rune as the rune activates. The rate at which chakra is moved gradually slows down until the rune is presumably "full" of chakra. No mechanical effect that Hazō knows of, but feel free to try experiments if you think you have something that would interact with this effect. This rune lasts for 3 days (and for once, Hazou is actually able to destroy it before moving on).

    Chapter 670, Day 1
    DoB recovery.

    Chapter 670, Day 2
    Research Icarus Rune.

    Hazō (Primordial Sealing): 23 + 21 (crossover bonus from DoB-boosted Sealing) + 12 (Disciple of the Beyond) + 3 = 59
    Hazō (Earthshaping): 50 - 6 (timeladder down) + 0 = 44

    Chapter 670, Day 3
    DoB recovery.

    Chapter 670, Day 4
    Research Icarus Rune.

    Hazō (Primordial Sealing): 23 + 21 (crossover bonus from DoB-boosted Sealing) + 12 (Disciple of the Beyond) - 6 = 53
    Hazō won't reroll for progress, as specified in the plan.
    Hazō (Earthshaping): 50 - 6 (timeladder down) - 12 = 32
    Hazō spends a FP to reroll!
    Hazō (Earthshaping): 50 - 6 (timeladder down) + 3 = 47

    Chapter 670, Day 5
    DoB recovery.

    Chapter 670, Day 6
    Research Icarus Rune.

    Hazō (Primordial Sealing): 23 + 21 (crossover bonus from DoB-boosted Sealing) + 12 (Disciple of the Beyond) - 6 = 53
    Hazō won't reroll for progress, as specified in the plan.
    Hazō (Earthshaping): 50 - 6 (timeladder down) + 0 = 44

    With Disciple of the Beyond, this rune is much, much easier. Even with the truly awful research luck, Hazō thinks he should be done in one or two more cycles.

    Chapter 670, Day 7
    DoB recovery.
     
  • Informational
    • Further responses to Med-stunt reviews
    Paperclipped said:
    Seems pretty OP, but not altogether implausible. We'd probably need to have some gating on how it can be used to keep it from trivializing the stakes of any combat (e.g. a 1-in-3 chance that the damage is straight-up-irreversible, like your head getting blown off). Also, VD AB minutes is implausibly long for the physical state of the brain, assuming chakra isn't somehow time-reversing the patient.
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    I was basing this on about how long brains live once deprived of oxygen. CPR has to be started within two minutes to prevent brain damage. So it didn't seem implausible that ninja could do better with magic. Extending that from 2 minutes to 8 minutes at jounin+ levels. VD AB/2 also works if you want something shorter, or you could do literally just 1 minute. I doubt it'll matter either way. Either Noburi is right there to do this or he's not.
    Paperclipped said:
    Probably too strong for the supposed benefits of the VD bloodline. Would be suitable if narrowed down to a particular category of Consequence: e.g. overdraw/overcharge consequences.
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    How about this change?
    Sir Stompy said:
    Vampiric Healing

    Using his advanced knowledge of medical ninjutsu, medical knowledge and Vampiric Dew Noburi can use tiny amounts of chakra drain and infusion to help wound healing. He can now roll VD level in addition to Mednin and Medknow to treat injuries. On success of both VD and Medknow vs wound TN heal 3x the Mednin shifts instead of 2x. If the Consequence was related to chakra coils in some way (ie overcharge/overdraw) heal 4x
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    Paperclipped said:
    I don't think this makes sense from a fluff PoV: the VD sense is fairly coarse.
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    How about this?
    Sir Stompy said:
    Vampiric Sensing

    Through his mastery of the chakra systems of living things, Noburi gains +AB to Medknow for rolls relating to chakra systems or medical rolls relating to chakra in general.
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    Paperclipped said:
    Makes sense, seems plausible, but I mostly worry that it takes away any of the downside of overcharging. Maybe that's fine, since it increases the simplicity of the system?
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    You'd still have a Mild if you're overcharging 50% to Summon, which is still a problem for combat especially when you're as squishy as Hazou (if not nearly as much of a problem as a Moderate)
     
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    @eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

    Can we get an FP update on the last few chapters? Hazou ended 665 with 3 FP, should have refreshed back to 4 in 666, spent another FP in 670, then refreshed back to 4 in 671.

    Unless he spent one on rerolls while scribing the team more RRBs, he did do that right? We have enough for everyone?

    Did we ever decide how that was grandfathered in? I had a suggestion here:
    Sir Stompy said:
    @eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
    Separately, on another note, how will RRBs interact with DoB? I know that Paper expressed a desire on Discord to grandfather them into DoB. It's not clear exactly how that would be done. There are a few ways I can see it playing out.

    1. Hazou rolls his DoB affected Sealing to infuse RRBs, 63 + 14 (timeladder) = 77 he likely cannot infuse RRBs, but if he did, they would have a bonus of +8 reflecting his decreased AB
    2. Hazou rolls his SSA affected Sealing to infuse RRBs 75 + 16 (timeladder) = 91. Same as previous, he likely rerolls a -9 or worse. Bonus is +9. If we ever level Sealing, the roll increases with his skill.
    3. Hazou rolls his SSA affected Sealing for this, but it is forever capped at 75 (the level when we got DoB), if we level Sealing, we still roll a 75 until the DoB boosted Sealing surpasses the SSA boosted Sealing, and the bonus from RRBs cannot increase until the DoB affected sealing gets to 80. This last one makes the most sense to me as a way of "grandfathering" in RRBs, but is the most work for the QMs.
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    Paperclipped said:
    Cool idea and plays to Noburi's advantages. Since it's only clearing stress and not Consequences, it's reasonably balanced too. Main question is if Tsunade would share even a lesser version of one of her trump cards with Noburi... which I'm not very optimistic about.
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    Couple questions: First, does Tsunade not prefer Noburi stay alive? Certainly I don't expect combat techniques to be a primary focus of hers in this study, but I would expect her to provide some amount of juice there so her time teaching him wasn't wasted.

    Separately, and quote above relevant: I'm not actually sure that reducing personal Stress like that is... relevantly-her-trump-card. In high level fights, most enemies have WR high enough that stress is not really all that relevant as a factor -- the real juice would be getting rid of consequences at combat time scales, imo, and I'm not sure any person other than Tsunade is capable of doing that.
     
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    Sir Stompy said:
    CPR has to be started within two minutes to prevent brain damage. So it didn't seem implausible that ninja could do better with magic.
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    I don't understand what you mean by this.

    The oxygen supply for cells in the brain will run out after a few minutes and things will start to die on mass. If you're on the scene early enough to supply more oxygen to those cells by manually pumping blood with chest compressions, then you can stop them from reaching that point.

    Once you're there, though, there's no coming back even if you provide it with more oxygen. What you're asking for is chakra to literally bring dead cells back to life, not just supplying them with oxygen.
     
    _The_Bomb said:
    I don't understand what you mean by this.

    The oxygen supply for cells in the brain will run out after a few minutes and things will start to die on mass. If you're on the scene early enough to supply more oxygen to those cells by manually pumping blood with chest compressions, then you can stop them from reaching that point.

    Once you're there, though, there's no coming back even if you provide it with more oxygen. What you're asking for is chakra to literally bring dead cells back to life, not just supplying them with oxygen.
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    The brain cells don't die immediately. After two minutes there begins irreversible biochemical processes that lead to cell death. Even so, since the burst of chakra causes the heart and lungs to work again, fresh oxygen is incoming.

    The chakra burst could easily help prevent brain cell death by doing whatever chakra does to empower the body. Heart and lung function is restored by burst as well, so more oxygen is supplied to the brain.

    Is there something you still don't understand? This seems very straightforward to me.
     
    Sir Stompy said:
    The brain cells don't die immediately. After two minutes there begins irreversible biochemical processes that lead to cell death. Even so, since the burst of chakra causes the heart and lungs to work again, fresh oxygen is incoming.

    The chakra burst could easily help prevent brain cell death by doing whatever chakra does to empower the body. Heart and lung function is restored by burst as well, so more oxygen is supplied to the brain.

    Is there something you still don't understand? This seems very straightforward to me.
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    What I don't understand is how you expect a technique that resupplies oxygen to cells to do anything after someone's been out for eight minutes.
    Sir Stompy said:
    was basing this on about how long brains live once deprived of oxygen. CPR has to be started within two minutes to prevent brain damage. So it didn't seem implausible that ninja could do better with magic. Extending that from 2 minutes to 8 minutes at jounin+ levels
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    Okay, so we can now reliably create an environment with a massive amount of chakra. What experiments do we want to do?

    I, for one, want to have our Shadow Clones regenerate their chakra under its AOE to see if the increased amount of environmental chakra allows the human body to regenerate its chakra faster.

    It makes sense, doesn't it? If there's more of the chakra mixture to be had, then there's more for the human body to filter through and get human chakra. I imagine that, at a certain point, it's less "how much is available" and it becomes "well, how fast can the human body filter for human chakra," but it still seems like an experiment worth running.
     
    RandomOTP said:
    Okay, so we can now reliably create an environment with a massive amount of chakra. What experiments do we want to do?

    I, for one, want to have our Shadow Clones regenerate their chakra under its AOE....
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    Also, it seems like the chakra is collected to an area physically inside of the rune. Not an AoE that we can fit other people/material into.

    Next steps are probably "collect only human-phase chakra" and "make it drainable by Noburi". But filtering the human-phase chakra might be pretty tricky.
     
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    _The_Bomb said:
    Are you or are you not claiming that your technique can prevent brain damage even after two minutes have passed? It really seemed like you were:
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    I suggest you either cite the nonexistent chakra-physics textbooks we don't have for the precise limitations of what ninja magic can do or drop it and let the QMs decide how magic works in their setting in response to a question someone else asked.
     
    @Paperclipped @eaglejarl @Velorien

    Regenerative Succor
    Req: Mednin 50*, Medknow 50

    *Noburi does not currently have this (he is at 48), but the presumption is that it's being elided over due to some combination of stunts he learns under Tsunade, her explicit tutelage, or simply getting Mednin up to 50 while under her.

    CP Cost: 300 (multiplied if used on someone else, not if used on self)

    This may be used either in combat on oneself, or out of combat, on someone else.

    In combat, this is a supplemental action that provides a 30s duration buff that, after consequences are inflicted (if applicable), reduces the amount of stress the user has by one. This is intended to make him more lasting in combat, but taking big hits will still inflict consequences.

    If used out of combat, it is a triage technique that provides a 2*AB bonus to the MedNin and Medknow rolls by the same mechanism that it functions as a self-buff in combat. This is not something that can be done while combat is going on; using it on someone else in this way makes it a Full Round Action that requires too much focus to use in open combat. (If there is a means to get full cover during combat, it is at QM discretion whether this can be done.) This technique is not useful during surgery or past the point of triage.

    Out of combat, this is not considered a buff, but in the same realm as an "attack" technique like Water Dragon Bullet providing an inherent buff to the rolls.


    e:

    Balance Points, if too strong: Make it regenerate 1 stress per round, instead of after attacks.
     
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    Shrooms said:
    I just meant collapse the cave so whatever we put in there is buried
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    Oh OK. Although I still think using ES would make it look more natural.

    Velorien said:
    After an extraordinary Sunday night gathering of the QM Council, with much behind-the-scenes manipulation, many favours called in, and at least one table shattered with OP ninjutsu
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    Can we mere mortals learn these hax? Or are they one of the many perks of being a QM (along with the power to inflict delicious suffering on the players, and the right to say "Damn you, Kishimoto")?

    Velorien said:
    we have decided to award XP for the recent long interlude at a rate of 2.5 XP/day, for a total of 18 XP.
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    Yipee! All hail the QMs!
     
    _The_Bomb said:
    Clearly this is for performing a laparoscopic ureterolithotomy.

    But in all seriousness,
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    Mounting surgical tools on the end of a prehensile tentacle legitimately does seem like it could have a lot of advantages in the broader field of "fix internal problems without first needing to turn them external." Outside of real-world Laparoscopy - Wikipedia extended reach could also be relevant for the all-too-common problem of trying to heal someone who's semiconscious, panicking, and better than the average mednin at taijutsu - far less risk of a patient injuring Noburi himself, if the whip is the only part they can reach. Usual approach would be to just drain them the rest of the way to KO under those conditions, but getting leaky arteries clamped off a little bit sooner might be well worth the effort.
     
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    MarsIronPI said:
    Can we mere mortals learn these hax? Or are they one of the many perks of being a QM (along with the power to inflict delicious suffering on the players, and the right to say "Damn you, Kishimoto")?
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    Which hax specifically? If it's OP ninjutsu, then sure. I don't think I can help you with the favours or the manipulation.
     
    Paperclipped said:
    Hazō completes the Capacitor Rune! The rune has a central component (a sphere roughly half a meter across) that chakra is pulled towards. Using the eighth seal in the jinchūriki chain, Hazō can see a mass of environmental chakra being drawn into the rune as the rune activates. The rate at which chakra is moved gradually slows down until the rune is presumably "full" of chakra. No mechanical effect that Hazō knows of, but feel free to try experiments if you think you have something that would interact with this effect. This rune lasts for 3 days (and for once, Hazou is actually able to destroy it before moving on).
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    Huh. We are kind of sealing chakra with this one.

    Maybe I am reading too much into that, but that seems like a big deal besides the chakra batterie part.

    edit: Konan is a chakra construct...time to seal her.
     
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    Sir Stompy said:
    Alright I'm going to assume that Prime was busy for the 7 days of the update, so that leaves 19 training blocks each day to read notes for a total of 133 - 16 (4 prep days) = 117 blocks. Remember that each instance of notes can only take 4 blocks per day. So I'm going to say that at most, 28 blocks will be applied to each set of notes.


    Orochimaru's Sealing notes #7: S: 0, B: 50, R: 0
    13 blocks applied, 104 remaining

    Orochimaru's Sealing notes #8: S: 0, B: 49.5, R: 0.5
    28 blocks applied, 76 remaining

    Orochimaru's TH notes #1: S: 0, B: 164, R: 36
    28 blocks applied, 48 remaining

    Orochimaru's TH notes #2: S: 0, B: 160, R: 40
    28 blocks applied, 20 remaining

    Orochimaru's TH notes #3: S: 0, B: 60, R: 90
    20 blocks applied, 0 remaining

    EDIT: Forgot to account for the prep days we did.
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    @Shrooms @Sir Stompy and all the others interested, here is our current note situation!
    • Hazo:
      • Sealing: S:2283, B:40.5, R:26.5
      • Technique Hacking: S:0, B:384, R:616
    • Noburi:
      • Medical Knowledge: S:275, B:27, R:198
      • Medical Ninjutsu: S:325, B:148, R:27
    UPDATED MATH SPREADSHEET
     
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