Sorry, I'm confused. What exactly is the idea?
It's something we came up with a while ago and did a little poking into but stopped because we needed to do additional research on a while ago.

In short: Use a rune to modify the contents of a storage seal. Specifically, to increase the temperature or pressure of its contents substantially so that it explodes violently when unsealed. High enough temperature slash compacted-enough contents means violently enough to be comparable to explosive runes. When we did prep on this, we found that Hazou's primary concern was that the storage seal would not be able to handle the stress. So: Have Kagome work on one that will handle the stress, while we work on the rune.
 
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It's something we came up with a while ago and did a little poking into but stopped because we needed to do additional research on a while ago.

In short: Use a rune to modify the contents of a storage seal. Specifically, to increase the temperature or pressure of its contents substantially so that it explodes violently when unsealed. High enough temperature slash compacted-enough contents means violently enough to be comparable to explosive runes. When we did prep on this, we found that Hazou's primary concern was that the storage seal would not be able to handle the stress. So: Have Kagome work on one that will handle the stress, while we work on the rune.
I'll also note, I fucked up the specifications for a related project and made the seal component more difficult than necessary.

We prep-dayed a variant that stored light in a specially designed seal. What I wrote was interpretted as "the seal is a fully functional light-implosion seal, and the rune just pipes light into it" by the QMs, which wasn't the intent. We never prep-dayed a lesser version of the seal component... and now our eff. sealing is reduced, dang.
 
I dunno about a fortress but I think staying in the sky as much as possible to avoid leaving tracks is good. Although that increases the distance a sharingan user can see us from the ground, and may not help against Hidan's tracking.
Sharingan doesn't increase view range AFAIK.

question, why do we just not keep it zero contact whit those who exfil but in the 7th path for here on out?, we care more about them not getting tortured, but risking phisical presence seems a bit much. they could just stay on their independent cells and wait until we have the seals ready.
We can always drop contact later. Although as things are right now, if the exfiltration fails, Itachi can still coerce Noburi into delivering a Seventh Path message with a threat to us. So let's hope that: A. The exfiltration doesn't fail, and B. That Itachi wouldn't send Nobs to give us a message via the seventh path because Nobs could then just run away.

In short: Use a rune to modify the contents of a storage seal. Specifically, to increase the temperature or pressure of its contents substantially so that it explodes violently when unsealed. High enough temperature slash compacted-enough contents means violently enough to be comparable to explosive runes. When we did prep on this, we found that Hazou's primary concern was that the storage seal would not be able to handle the stress. So: Have Kagome work on one that will handle the stress, while we work on the rune.
Oh, I get it. Would this explosion be bigger than one produced by an explosive rune?
 
In canon it gave incredible clarity of perception. So i'm imagining a normal ninja far away could see a speck in the sky, but Itachi could resolve it.

I think that short versus long range acuity would be tradeoffs, but this is ninja magic, so who knows.

Also, I am once again asking (the plural) you to add the Anti-Conductor and Mortal Thickness runes to the list. Or, at least, consider them. I don't know how we are handling the list, so I can only ask.

 
I have a plan fragment for next cycle that I want to put forth:

[] Plan Fragment: Sage Confirmation Technique
  • Procedure for when Noburi reports on exfiltration (discuss with K/K/S, ask Sages if they'll help)
    • Tell Noburi to return to Human Path, summon the Sages then return to the Seventh Path
    • Tell the Sages to assess situation on the Human Path and check for genjutsu
    • When Noburi and the Sages get back, ask the Sages if they really did get summoned, and if so, is all well?
    • If the Sages report something amiss or didn't get summoned, ... (OK, I'm not sure, but whoever uses this fragment can put something here I guess.)

I'd also like to see a plan ask Kei about Schelling points with Ami, or find some other way of contacting her.

Also, did we end up sending a response to Itachi? I really hope we did. If the plan didn't include it, can we Declare that we did?
 
Procedure for when Noburi reports on exfiltration (discuss with K/K/S, ask Sages if they'll help)
  • Tell Noburi to return to Human Path, summon the Sages then return to the Seventh Path
  • Tell the Sages to assess situation on the Human Path and check for genjutsu
  • When Noburi and the Sages get back, ask the Sages if they really did get summoned, and if so, is all well?
  • If the Sages report something amiss or didn't get summoned, ... (OK, I'm not sure, but whoever uses this fragment can put something here I guess.)
I'm confused why we would be Summoning them to the human path at all - Noburi needs to meet up with us on the 7th Path so we can coordinate where to meet in the Human Path. Shouldn't they just check him for genjutsu then, so we aren't walking into a trap when we set up a meeting? Otherwise, makes sense to check with them so I support this general course of action.
 
Or, at least, consider them. I don't know how we are handling the list, so I can only ask.
While they would be extremely convenient and terrifying, I have doubts about runes of effect type "instant death bypassing all resistances" ever being viable. The reason being the precise wide-area manipulation of universal physical properties (conductivity, viscosity) that are not domains runes already specialize in (space/time). Either spacerippers/timerippers are possible and would do the same job or they aren't and the rest of the field wouldn't fare much better.
 
I'm confused why we would be Summoning them to the human path at all - Noburi needs to meet up with us on the 7th Path so we can coordinate where to meet in the Human Path. Shouldn't they just check him for genjutsu then, so we aren't walking into a trap when we set up a meeting? Otherwise, makes sense to check with them so I support this general course of action.
Nobs would summon them to make sure that nobody messed with his memories before he reverse-summoned. The sequence of events that it guards against is this:
  1. Itachi captures the team as they attempt exfiltration.
  2. He finds out that Noburi will report to Hazō when the exfiltration is complete.
  3. Itachi then uses genjutsu on Noburi to replace his memory of the failed exfiltration with a memory of a successful exfiltration.
  4. He then has Noburi, who thinks that the exfiltration was successful and that he and the team are out of Leaf, go to the Seventh Path and lure Hazō into a trap.

By having Noburi summon the Toad Sages to the Human Path, the Toad Sages (who I assume won't be fooled by Itachi's genjutsu) will be able to confirm to Hazō that the team is out of Leaf safely and that nobody is under the influence of genjutsu.

Edit: this matters slightly less if we don't go meet up with the others, but instead recieve chakra from Noburi on the Seventh Path.

I hear you, but consider instead: Explosive-Rune Rune.
But then when you prepare multiple you can't say "I prepared Explosive Runes today."
 
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By having Noburi summon the Toad Sages to the Human Path, the Toad Sages (who I assume won't be fooled by Itachi's genjutsu) will be able to confirm to Hazō that the team is out of Leaf safely and that nobody is under the influence of genjutsu.
Once again, if we just have Noburi meet them in the 7th Path to certify him, does this not accomplish the exact same thing?

  1. Itachi captures the team as they attempt exfiltration.
  2. He finds out that Noburi will report to Hazō when the exfiltration is complete.
  3. Itachi then uses genjutsu on Noburi to replace his memory of the failed exfiltration with a memory of a successful exfiltration.
  4. He then has Noburi, who thinks that the exfiltration was successful and that he and the team are out of Leaf, go to the Seventh Path and lure Hazō into a trap.
So after step 4, Noburi meets the Toad Sages on the 7th Path who check him for genjutsu. Noburi leaves. Hazou verifies with them afterwards that Noburi's not influenced. Hazou meets Noburi with the Sages, and sets up the rendezvous.
 
Some other prep ideas that may be useful.

Dragon Roar Rune
A continuation of dragon ideas. Ideally has the same range as a full size air dome. Everyone within the AoE of the Rune rolls Resolve against a TN (say 60) once per round for 10 minutes. Losing the resolve TN results in mental stress. Sounds like a dragon roar, along with the psychic attack.

Substitution Rune
Paired Rune. Substitutes objects marked/chakra linked by each rune. Has default range. Works with chakra constructs. Works with ninjas. Works with other runes.

Dragon roar might be interesting as another esoteric vector to deliver damage to akatsuki. Substitution rune I have no idea, but the seal version was genin so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Mortal Thickness
Rune
This rune significantly increases the viscosity (or "thickness", as Hazo would know it) of all liquids in its area of effect.
(Alternatively: It sets the thickness of all liquids in its AoE to some reference point)
-
The purpose of this rune is to instantly kill everyone in its area of effect at time of application. It is based on the Time Rune's indiscriminate target -> emergent effect phenomenon (targeting "time" in an AoE impacts everything, including the insides of bodies. Now we target "viscosity".) Its exact effect and how Hazo might come about to inventing it are described below:

Hazo is trivially aware of the thinness/thickness of liquids. Since blood is a liquid, this rune could be an obvious next step for him. Since turning it up higher increases the speed of effect (i.e. kills faster by slowing blood circulation further), he will naturally go as high as he can, as with the time rune.
Whether or not he is aware of how neurons actually work, turning the effect up will quickly cross the threshold where ions cannot move through intercellular liquid between the neurons [1]. The instant you cross that threshold, the nervous system dies, and so does the essie.

The greatest advantage of this rune is that, beyond the neuron stoppage threshold, it kills instantly without regard to class differences. Also the fact that Hazo can accidentally invent the (an) ultimate essie killer.
(The nomenclature merely arises from the difference between "thick" and "thin" liquids, I assure you.)


[1]: Edit: By my calculations on the Stokes-Einstein equation, we'd need a viscosity around that of peanut butter for guaranteed instakills. Honey would instantly paralyze, inflict brain damage to, and only mostly kill them (honey goes: instant paralysis + lobotomy -> seizures -> respiratory failure -> cardiac arrest). The viability of a lobotomized essie is in debate, considering Hidan. (We need around 227 Pa.s for total instakills, calculated based on a target diffusion coefficient of 10^{−15} m^2/s. At that diffusion coefficient, ions will be immobilized. Peanut butter is around 150−250 Pa.s. Honey is much lower.)
Unlike the anti-conductivity rune, I agree that this is likely to be unproblematic. However, it does have an interesting consequence; see below.
If you want to raise viscosity high enough that diffusion is slowed enough that nerves no longer function, you're essentially shutting down all biological processes. If even small things can't diffuse at a reasonable speed on scales of hundreds of nanometres, cells will not work. Small molecules like ATP will not get to where they're needed; proteins will be practically fixed in place and unable to interact with one another. As a practical example, muscles probably just stop working, because even if the ATP can still get to the myosin heads they likely can't exert enough force to overcome the dramatically increased viscosity of the medium and certainly won't be able to diffuse the few nanometres needed to find an actin fibre to interact with.

As a result of this, I think this rune might well be non-lethal. Shutting down ~all biological processes will also shut down any processes that could cause damage. I cannot currently think of any reason why someone exposed to this rune for a relatively short time, when removed, would not be basically fine; perhaps not immediately so, because some diffusion will still happen and you may disrupt some transient processes as a result, but within a few minutes at the outside.

If I'm right about this, this would actually be a huge advantage, since it would allow us to switch on the rune with our allies inside, but it's worth noting that if you switch off the effect without taking action to confirm kills first (tossing kunai in or something) there's a significant risk that Akatsuki get right back up and keep on fighting, especially with chakra doing who knows what to ninja biology. (Also, the ~10,000-fold increase in viscocity you propose here may well be beyond Hazō's capabilities to achieve, but that's something we'd find out only by trying it.)
(Summary of consequence; this rune might be non-lethal, in that people removed from it might start up again without significant damage.)

Also, I am once again asking (the plural) you to add the Anti-Conductor and Mortal Thickness runes to the list. Or, at least, consider them. I don't know how we are handling the list, so I can only ask.
There isn't a formal list; you have to try and convince the planmakers each cycle that your idea is worth doing. @Sir Stompy uses a democratic system, where people can vote for which prep days should be incorporated into the plan, but other planmakers may just decide to incorporate the prep days they think are a good idea. Most planmakers will obviously accept input from the thread, otherwise people won't vote for their plan, but in general there's no formal way to queue up prep days. (Which is probably a good thing, really.)


Speaking of prep days, I'd like to remind people that we have yet to do a prep day for Pulsed Lingering Temporal Runes; description reproduced below for convenience.
Pulsed Lingering Temporal Rune
Rune

On activation, generates a pulse that affects living beings within a small radius. Beings affected experience accelerated time, as if within the field of a Temporal Rune, except that the effect is tied to them rather than to an area of space, similar to the effects of Hazō's prototypes for TR125. The effect wears off over a period of [time; hours to a day would probably be ideal, but depends on what Hazō can get].

There has previously been enough support for these to make it into a winning plan, twice in fact. Now that we have DoB and some extra PS levels, I think it's more likely than ever that PLTRs will turn out to be within Hazō's capabilities. I previously expected them to be 'could maybe do' but thought there was enough of a chance that they were 'well within' to be worth doing; with Hazō's new PS skill, I now expect a >50% chance that at least the weak PLTRs are 'well within'. Even PLTR125 potentially allows for an extra Supplemental action each turn, if we assume a Standard is equivalent to at least two Supplementals, along with an unknown but potentially significant numerical boost; this could significantly increase Leaf's chances against Akatsuki in direct ninja combat.
 
will also shut down any processes that could cause damage. I cannot currently think of any reason why someone exposed to this rune for a relatively short time, when removed, would not be basically fine
I don't think either IRL science or the QMs understand enough of the nature of consciousness to make an educated simulationist guess about this so my gut instinct is that chakra is going to tend towards not doing free instakills.
 
Are the electrical and chemical processes in the brain excluded? If not, the connection seems pretty straightforward, no?
No, not at all. Like, in what way do you expect the nature of consciousness to be relevant to what happens here? Unless you're arguing that stopping the brain for a bit will cause some dualist 'mind' component of you to float into the abyss and be lost, I don't see how it affects anything.
 
A Humble Proposal for Internal Balance of Seals/Bioseals/Runes/Ninjutsu/Namikaze Minato's Revolutionary Soon-to-be-World-Changing Uber-Sealing Style (Note to Self: Come Back and Name This Later) Seals
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

In hope of aiding your eternal struggles with prep days, I bring this suggestion to you. As ever, we must look to those who have done similarly in the past. The tabletop system Mage: The Ascension/Awakening (different editions of the same-ish system) features the capacity to do completely freeform magic within a moderately rules-crunchy system. When judging difficulty, benchmarks are provided for what you can approximately expect of every 'level' of experience: Apprentice, Initiate, Disciple, Adept, and Master.

For instance, Apprentice for most of the schools of magic provide you the capacity to sense varying details about your school of magic, Initiate lets you manipulate your school in minor ways or create a shield against your school for yourself, all the way up to Master giving you the capacity to, in the school of Time, to do a time stop.

I'm bringing up this example because it seems like it might be of help to you in your efforts to create various setpoints amongst yourselves (this is not for players to see) to judge our ideas against.

For instance: It's evidently the case that seals can make basic explosives pretty easily. So, you might set up a table as follows (Obviously, your descriptions of the effects will be very different than mine, and will in the case of sealing/ninjutsu factor in how many other smart people have had access to sealing/ninjutsu):

LevelEffect
10Affects the target minorly. The equivalent of a cantrip in effect level.
20Combat-level effects, though relatively minor. Buffs of ~+1-3, may provide fragile aspects.
30May turn the tide of combat if used well, but not inherently so.
40[...]

And then, you make an adjustment to what the table based on how easy what we're trying to do should be in your judgement. So, from your persepctive, you say "Well, seals should have a pretty easy time making explosives work, so let's give them a -2 on the table" and that takes them down from 30 to 10, approximately where they are in MfD.

I don't know if this will be helpful for your current disagreements, or if you already do something like this, but I feel it might help you guys work out what the crux of disagremeents are and operationalize them in ways that are easier to engage with.
 
I'm confused why we would be Summoning them to the human path at all

To help us getting away from Leaf? We can seafely share with them that this is a Naruto order and whats going on.

They can help:
  • Detect Akatsuki members or summons
  • Distract them
  • Hold them off
  • Check for magic mumbo jumbo
We really just need to ask them if they are willing to help and make sure Noburi can restore most of his reserves.

Maybe they kill Deidara by accident, would be funny.
 
Wait, so can Kei retain any bursts of inspiration that Snowflake might have had? Would the conclusions gained from exercising forbidden mental functions be retained, with only the qualia and/or process of reaching these conclusions being blocked?

I always kind of imagined this like different memory... formats. Like Kei and Snowflake can access eachother's memories, it's just that those memories are encoded differently or have a different "flavor" or whatever so that both Kei and Snowflake can identify a Snowflake memory vs a Kei memory by qualia alone.
That's about right. If Kei couldn't retain Snowflake's bursts of inspiration, then having her wouldn't be an upgrade on just discussing her problems with Shikamaru over tea. In terms of memory access, Snowflake can access all Kei's memories. Kei can access some of Snowflake's memories, but some she just can't process because they involve heavy exercise of, as you put it, forbidden mental functions (occasionally deliberately for memories Snowflake wants to keep private).

A Humble Proposal for Internal Balance of Seals/Bioseals/Runes/Ninjutsu/Namikaze Minato's Revolutionary Soon-to-be-World-Changing Uber-Sealing Style (Note to Self: Come Back and Name This Later) Seals
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

In hope of aiding your eternal struggles with prep days, I bring this suggestion to you. As ever, we must look to those who have done similarly in the past. The tabletop system Mage: The Ascension/Awakening (different editions of the same-ish system) features the capacity to do completely freeform magic within a moderately rules-crunchy system. When judging difficulty, benchmarks are provided for what you can approximately expect of every 'level' of experience: Apprentice, Initiate, Disciple, Adept, and Master.

For instance, Apprentice for most of the schools of magic provide you the capacity to sense varying details about your school of magic, Initiate lets you manipulate your school in minor ways or create a shield against your school for yourself, all the way up to Master giving you the capacity to, in the school of Time, to do a time stop.

I'm bringing up this example because it seems like it might be of help to you in your efforts to create various setpoints amongst yourselves (this is not for players to see) to judge our ideas against.

For instance: It's evidently the case that seals can make basic explosives pretty easily. So, you might set up a table as follows (Obviously, your descriptions of the effects will be very different than mine, and will in the case of sealing/ninjutsu factor in how many other smart people have had access to sealing/ninjutsu):

LevelEffect
10Affects the target minorly. The equivalent of a cantrip in effect level.
20Combat-level effects, though relatively minor. Buffs of ~+1-3, may provide fragile aspects.
30May turn the tide of combat if used well, but not inherently so.
40[...]

And then, you make an adjustment to what the table based on how easy what we're trying to do should be in your judgement. So, from your persepctive, you say "Well, seals should have a pretty easy time making explosives work, so let's give them a -2 on the table" and that takes them down from 30 to 10, approximately where they are in MfD.

I don't know if this will be helpful for your current disagreements, or if you already do something like this, but I feel it might help you guys work out what the crux of disagremeents are and operationalize them in ways that are easier to engage with.
This is fairly close to what we do already, in fact, but I greatly appreciate the suggestion.
 
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