If we plan to go to the inn in sound, we should try to communicate with J beforehand. His summon is presumably still in pangolin territory so if we give it a message and he summons her again, he'll receive it. Then, we can probably send several messages if we commit to summoning panda every hour to check if there's been a return message. This only works if J doesn't want to deny any communication until the inn. I recommend the first message we send ask for proof of identity since we're worried about the message being intercepted.

It takes ten days for message delivery to be conducted. It's not timely by any means.
Did Keiko spend any of her time in the summon realm making pacts? Can we propose training for Keiko during her time there? The three days after? How much med knowledge and med ninjutsu could does noburi think he cuould train if he went to the old lady in Yuni over some of the 9 days? What about 2 of the three we have available after?

If we send Noburi to Yuni, then we'll have to decide if we want to split our force, or abandon Keiko and go with Noburi. You also risk Noburi not getting the message to proceed to Rice.
 
@Kiba, the delivery time reflect how long it takes a messenger from toad to get to pangolin. The messenger is already here, allowing for faster communication if Jiraiya has a pact with her.

Edit: Asking abut the Yuni thing to get some numbers in order to make an informed decision.

I don't understand what you mean by pact. How does it speed up communication?
 
If we plan to go to the inn in sound, we should try to communicate with J beforehand. His summon is presumably still in pangolin territory so if we give it a message and he summons her again, he'll receive it. Then, we can probably send several messages if we commit to summoning panda every hour to check if there's been a return message. This only works if J doesn't want to deny any communication until the inn. I recommend the first message we send ask for proof of identity since we're worried about the message being intercepted.
We can't do this because we only control Hazou, not Keiko (who is still in the summoning realm). We'd have to:
  • Wait for Keiko to get back to us;
  • Get over the shitshow that is her having left for 10 days against Mari's direct orders;
  • Listen to her mission report, and get Jiraiya's orders;
  • Give her the suggestion to do this;
  • Have her resummon Pandaa so she can get summoned to the Animal Path;
  • Then have her do this.
And all this assumes that:
  • The toad summon hasn't left by now;
  • Jiraiya will bother to resummon the toad to check up on it, instead of assuming the message was actually delivered.
So no, I don't think this is a good idea. Or a necessary one; if another entity was able fake a Toad messenger AND knew we had a summoning contract with the Pangolins AND knew of our link with Jiraiya we're already fucked beyond any level of planning. We may as well assume it's Jiraiya.
 
I have mostly separated myself from the building of the stats and mechanical portion of our favorite little hivemind, but I would like to see a more rounded approach with skills that can somewhat overlap and aid in other skill checks by giving situation bonuses. More transformation skill on top of stealth on top of capacity, plus more group training on substitution so that we all can shift the same amount of mass. Doing this leads to smaller PMYF ammo which leads to less of a chance our trail is picked up on our escapes or are investigated. With anything dealing with movement we have to go by our lowest score when operating as a group, please keep this in mind when coming up with training plans.
I, for one, support the idea of getting more Substitution and chakra capacity for everybody to better use PMYF, to use PMYF as part of evasive maneuvers, to boost our team's stealth.

We seem to be backed into a corner and forced to make a move or else the consequences for our inaction or reaction are worse than following along with the safe play in front of us. We have ammo in the form of information that we can use to mitigate some of the ill will we have generated with Jiraiya, and we have an explanation for our actions that should also help bring the personal anger at our group down. Akane should be the one to start the explanation of our actions as her normally cheerful disposition as well as her being from Leaf would be enough to bring Jiraiya into a calm enough state of mind to speak with our group about the events we have set into motion. We bring up only what he directly questions us about and we ask what we might be able to do to not step on his toes while still making a positive impact on the world.
I, personally, really hate railroading.
However, I think that hivemind's decisions in the last mission were on the scale of literally Too Dumb To Live. I personally got an impression that some players tried to deliberately vote for the most suicidal action possible.

Our team deserved to die in the fight with Joutarou, for the crime of being stupid. If, as a result of the mission, we get TPKd, it's totally our, players' fault.

So let's train Stealth and Capacity, go to Jiraya and die as we should have in Hot Springs.
 
@faflec Keio got the message on day 9, so we can talk to her about doing it as soon as she returns. The odds of success aren't particularly good, but I view it as dotting our Is and crossi our Ts. It doesn't make sense not to do it. Are there any consequences I'm missing?
How will the Toad messenger be able to tell us that Jiraiya actually sent the message? IIRC it has to be desummoned and resummoned, and when a summon is brought to the Animal path it's put in a pre-stated position in their clan's area (when Keiko summoned Pandaa for the first time they weren't brought to the middle of their D&D game). So how is the toad supposed to get to the Pangolin clan?
 
It doesn't make sense not to do it. Are there any consequences I'm missing?
We're spending some amount of time/chakra on sending a message that will, almost for a certainty, not reach J until a week after our meeting, and furthermore, I expect Keiko to take us sending her right back (even for a little while) poorly - the girl is not in a fit state of mind right now.

Plus, when we initially asked about sending messages via summons, the QMs stated that there was some cost associated with using the service. Presumably the pangolin military is footing the bill, but best not to wear out their goodwill.

I think that hivemind's decisions in the last mission were on the scale of literally Too Dumb To Live
Yeah, re-reading the chapters leading up to the Joutarou fight it seems pretty clear we should have just waited for them to leave. But hey, now we know for next time.
 
Yeah, re-reading the chapters leading up to the Joutarou fight it seems pretty clear we should have just waited for them to leave. But hey, now we know for next time.

Not without a proactive effort to not make the same mistakes, which is why I did the failure analysis. It's incomplete and I feel the lessons are not yet learned.
 
Oh, if we go talk to Jiraya, we should write down whatever we decide to tell him and send it via pangolin/returning toad anyway. To serve as backup and evidence of goodwill in case we get delayed on the way back to talk to him.
 
Oh, if we go talk to Jiraya, we should write down whatever we decide to tell him and send it via pangolin/returning toad anyway. To serve as backup and evidence of goodwill in case we get delayed on the way back to talk to him.
What DO we want to say to J, then? We'll get a little more info on Thursday but we can always start hashing it out ahead of time.
 
What DO we want to say to J, then? We'll get a little more info on Thursday but we can always start hashing it out ahead of time.
My suggestions:
  • Failure analysis
  • Promise to never take ninja missions from anyone other than him or the pangolins
  • We hope to find a way to pay reparations to the owner of the resort and families of any civilians we injured/killed.
 
Promise to never take ninja missions from anyone other than him or the pangolins
This seems like more of something we should be willing to give if he asks it, but not offer upfront.

Failure analysis in its present state is here, for reference:
FAILURE ANALYSIS

What happened?

There are five stage to this mission, as far as I can tell.

  • Mission acceptance - We accepted a mission from an unknown employer to spy on and capture a scroll. We did not back out even when an alternative was provided. Ultimately, that led to the execution phrase.
  • Infiltration & Scouting - We brought Honami to our side, learned about our adversaries, marked a spy as friendly(in spite of Mari's deception fail), and learned the layout of the rooms. However, when Yami showed up, it caused us to rush to the next phrase.
  • Execution - We executed a plan, subdued Yami and the civilians, but...we got caught with our pants down. We didn't account for J for being awake.
  • Combat - Our combat plan was pre-empted by Mari, though the GM incorporated much of our plan. Nonetheless, because of the previous failure, four individuals were victims of our massive fuck-up AND WE ALMOST DIE, caused an international incident, and almost certainly lost an ally. We didn't account for the other jounin joining the fray.
  • Exfiltration - We ran away safely, but we had yet to relocate out of Hot Spring.

Why and How did that happen?

Why was Jotaru awake?
We assumed that he was asleep, because he was awake during the day. It may be SOP for him and other ninjas to keep nightwatch on missions. However, with no one else to assist him, he cannot stay awake all through the day or through the night. With the arrival of Yami, it becomes possible to take watches.

Why did Komori rushed to Jotaru's aid?
We didn't think we have any reason for Jotaru to work with Komori. We didn't understand the political situation of the DMZ well enough.

Why we don't know about DMZ's rule of engagement? We did not devote much time understanding the political situation of Hot Spring, which might uncover the crucial fact about the RoE in the DMZ, preventing us from being blindsided.

Should had we wait for Jotaru to leave? Is it better to be more cautious or be braver?


Who did what?
  • Team Hazo - We were infiltrating the inn, hoping to complete a mission for our employer.
  • Employer - The employer is anonymous, whose motivation is unknown. He hired us as a deniable asset to steal a scroll.
  • Adversaries - A jonin ninja, Jotaru, was going to handle the scroll over to another nin named Yami. We do not know the level of Yami's skill until Mari defeated him. We learned that the woman civilian has a key or is the key?
  • Spy - Mari uncovered a spy possibility belonging to our employer, although it could be a bluff. He's watching over the inn.
  • Honami - A pregnant woman who's deadly afraid of hot spring ninjas taking her baby away. We suborned her to our side and gained her cooperation, which opened many doors for us. Unfortunately, we failed our mission and she most likely hate us for damaging her inn and drawing attention.
  • Komori - Iwa nin who unexpectedly engaged us in mortal combat when called on by Jotaru.
Where?

  • Our location: Honami's hot spring, Hot Spring, a DMZ.
How Could We Do Better?
  • In general, ask questions about the political situation. More specifically, learn the RoE. What happens when you are discovered? Who will pursue you and fight you when the alarm is raised?
Contested Questions:
  • Should we abort our mission or not taken the mission?
 
As an aside, if Joutarou was either a leaf nin, or a jounin from a leaf ally, we might being sent to that mission he said he needed to go to. I think it fits Jiraiya's style to send us half-dead on the mission for the combat specced jounin. By all rights he should kill us, but he feels somewhat responsible...so he gives us an out. Sure, it''ll probably be a suicide mission, but we might be good enough to pull it off. If we are, we might be valuable enough for him to spend the political capital to cover our butts.
 
Do we want to check if there is a pangolin that can safely get us across borders before investing in stealth? Something that can dig, sense what's going on above ground, move at ninja speeds, and carry at least one of us? We might still want to level up stealth if we think it will be pertinent to the mission jiraiya sends us on, assuming no time to train beforehand.

Edit: I guess I'm advocating contingent training plans?

To do that, Keiko would have to go to the summon realm, talk and find someone. We're on a deadline, and I prefer to have some margin when we arrived at that inn. I doubt the team trust Keiko not to abandon them once again.
 
I can't just hit one button to get that into my reply from there, though

Meeting with Big J
Things to bring up/offer
  • Snaketology and chakra rain, in case he doesn't already know about them
  • Here, have some of your contrymen back, something something closure for the families we're good people and I promise we didn't do any science to them
  • We used his code words to try and make sure we were not acting against one of his agents
  • We tried pretty damn hard to talk our way out of a fight
Things we are willing to give on if pressed verbally
  • We have information of a diplomatic nature that will be more valuable if we can wait a while before revealing it, because we promised to do so (this basically makes Hidden Mountain an open secret, which Takahashi might still take as a betrayal, as will Kei probably)
Things we are willing to give on if threatened
  • Pretty much anything? Like, does anyone object to survival by whatever means are necessary?
 
What DO we want to say to J, then? We'll get a little more info on Thursday but we can always start hashing it out ahead of time.

[X] Action Plan: Talking to Jaraiya
Goals:
1. Show up to the meeting on time.
2. Convince Jaraiya that we are still more valuable alive than dead.
3. Convince Jariaya that we share his ideals and would like to make the world better.

  • Step 1. Wait for Kei to return. When she does, make her feel welcome.
    • "Noburi and I had already guessed your attraction to Inoue-Sensei way back in the swamp of death. Noburi was upset that you wouldn't be attracted to him [ask Noburi before disclosing this, if we plan to], but otherwise neither of us have ever had any negative opinion on the subject. Akane was surprised, but likewise had no negative reaction.
      "What you said was hurtful, but Akane and I recognise that you didn't really mean it, and even if you had, we would still want to be your friends. Noburi thinks you probably did, and he's very upset, but a concerted effort from the group could probably convince him otherwise.
      "Inoue-Sensei is completely on edge over the whole situation, and we think she probably sent you away to give both you and herself a day to cool down before having this conversation, rather than to kick you out of the group.
      "Please stop being so miserable, everything is, if not alright, then at least fixable*.
    • "I know you feel you don't have connections with the rest of the team as meaningful as your feelings for Inoue-sensei. We want to work together to change that, if you're willing, because we all believe our friendships with you are worth continuing to build."
  • Step 2. When Kei delivers the message, make the case that we should show up for the meeting to the others and that we should execute step 3 onwards. Be prepared to alter the plan if they have concerns/additions.
  • Step 3: Execute border crossing to Rice using wiki travel protocols.
  • Step 4: Find Three Pines Inn and show up within three days
    • a. If there is time, prepare an escape route as we did in Hot Springs.
    • b. Everyone shows up, Kagome included. Also Pandā, with the ostensible purpose that we want Jaraiya to see our success and the understood-by-everyone purpose that he might be more reluctant to squash us if summon politics are involved. (Take reasonable precautions to avoid him being spotted by other people. Have him hide in a bag or backpack or something.)
  • Step 5. Let Jariaya start the conversation. If he wants to go directly to the Hot Springs incident, we can start there. If he is inscrutable and merely demands that we "report" with no explanation about what he already knows, we tell him everything since we last saw him in proper order. Following steps are assuming we are told "report", but if not go directly to Step 10.
  • Step 6. Mari conducts the frame of the conversation, but she calls on others to talk when their part of the story is most relevant.
  • Step 7. Start with introducing Kagome and Pandā.
  • Step 8. Tell him about how we had to avoid chakra-laced rain in Rain driving us to the Leaf side of the border and causing the clash with the Leaf border crossing. Be apologetic, but don't grovel. "But we shouldn't... we shouldn't grovel or anything. we did what we had to do and if he can't understand that, screw him," says Hazou to Mari.
    • Give J the bodies, because it's the right thing to do. But don't make a it to seem like it's meant as a bargaining chip or anything.
  • Step 9. Tell about tracking down the Village Hidden in the Mountain and our dealings with them.
    • a. Be clear about the origins of the VHitM but vague on their location and numbers. Do not volunteer this information and if he asks for it, tell him we'll save that discussion for later.
    • b. Important. Comment on how shinobi and non-shinobi alike are respected in the VHitM. Tell him, and this is the truth, that there was a part of us that wanted to stay there for this reason but that we couldn't take their insular culture.
    • c. Finish it off complimenting Keiko for being accepting as a summoner without getting too bogged down in details and that we convinced the VHitM to let us take the scroll voluntarily.
  • Step 10. Talk about how we were at loose ends after retrieving the Pangolin scroll and unsure what to do next.
    • a. Tell him how we found out about the scorch squads and we wanted to do something to change this, but didn't know what.
    • b. So we decided to take on a mission to get experience and maybe make some contacts and learn more about the world.
    • c. Float to the team that we might want to mention finding the Hydra foundation while looking for missions, and that that we don't want to change the world their creepy human experimentation way. Do they think it could have ties to Orochimaru? However Hazou won't press too hard for inclusion if the team thinks it'll spoil the flow of our story.
    • d. The Hot Springs mission sounded like a simple information retrieval... we figured it could be done without killing anyone.
  • Step 11. Run through the Hot Springs mission using our own mission analysis of goals, approach, and results. Do it like we're reporting to a superior officer.
    • a. Stress we got caught up in completing it and maybe should have abandoned the mission, or at least been willing to risk losing the message rather than risk a fight with Joutaro. (The team may not all be in agreement about what we should have done, so Hazou will defer to the other characters if they have strong feelings about where we made mistakes.)
    • b. We used his code words to try and make sure we were not acting against one of his agents
    • c. We didn't want to get anyone killed, but things ran out of control. We really did try to talk our way out of it, but... If we could, we'd like to make some sort of reparations someday.
    • d. And now here we are.
  • Step 12. Tell him that after being thrust into that clusterfuck with no warning, we aren't feeling too loyal to our erstwhile employer. We're willing to tell J what we know and the portion of the message Hazou managed to copy. Don't actually do this until we get a response.
  • Step 13. Face his response without fear.
    • a. If he demanded that we proceed directly to Step 10, wait and see if he wants us to discuss the pre-Hot Springs mission or kill us or what.
    • b. If he tries to kill us, well fuck it, we go down swinging and giving him the finger. Who knows, maybe this'll be the day the old pervert's unhealthy habits catch up and he has an aneurysm while gathering his chakra
EDIT: Edited according to request.
 
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We should ask Kagome if there's a reason he doesn't make explosives larger than 20m. Shaped nukes might give us a chance to survive if J decides to kill us.
 
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