You know, the fight was fun and all, but by my count Zabuza spent 13 FP during the whole offensive. Which is all fine and all, but he started with 7, and only earned 1 in the meantime, which brings the total to -6. Now, I'm not really sure how the system is meant to work, but there seems to be something wrong with that.

Well it was all Yukino's tale, which gives it benefits of the doubt, but still.

On the other hand - what the heck, it was cool enough, that I'm going to accept the tale as my headcanon, whether or not it was accurate :)
 
No offence but I was hoping for more chosen for the grave, which is super amazing. Flinging near super sonic shit at the hokage? Priceless.
 
I have a short outline of a seal research project, to be considered by the hivemind. Personally, I believe it is on the same order of potential usefulness as chakra-sensing casino seals. You can find it here (Link to a google document).
  • I think we can cut down the number of seals down to three; an impulse seal which can be triggered repeatedly, a rotational seal, and a chakra detection slice seal:
    • The design outlined by you seems to require 180+ chakra detection slice seals, placed with one degree of separation. The idea seems to be to detect it with a slice and then rotate to line up the target down the center channel.
    • However, if you have a chakra detection slice seal with a range of -90 degrees of elevation to 90 degrees of elevation and have some fraction of a azimuthal degree, and then rotate said seal, you can determine the azimuthal direction of the target with far fewer seals.
      • When a chakra signature is detected, the impulse seal should instantaneously fire, generating some amount of force. Testing will be required to see if that chakra pulse is truly instantaneous
      • Admittedly, this proposal is somewhat weaker in that it loses the elevational orientation that your outlined proposal has, but another set oriented for vertical detection should solve the problem with six seals.
  • Both proposals, however, suffer from the problem of pinging on ourselves, especially at the moment of release.
    • A time based or proximity based "arming" seal should solve the problem, with momentum and direction of travel taking care of the rest.
However, both seem to route through the chakra detection slice seal, which should be a high priority anyway.

On the other hand there may be a problem, depending on how exactly that casino seal, which is our only example of chakra detection at range, works. If it functions by sending a chakra ping, then we can probably build a chakra detection slice seal, admittedly with a high chakra cost and other possible effects from a high concentration of chakra. On the other hand, if the casino seal functions by being what amounts to a chakra Geiger counter, we're not going to be able to build the chakra detection slice seal with casino seals.
 
I have a short outline of a seal research project, to be considered by the hivemind. Personally, I believe it is on the same order of potential usefulness as chakra-sensing casino seals. You can find it here (Link to a google document).
@Winged_One, that was hilarious. I loved the 'serious academic paper' tone, especially the ""Implosion seals", Kagome et al, chapter 124". Remind me to issue Hazō +1 FP when we get his new character sheet put together.

Also, I'm quite confident that you have just started the End Times and that we are now on a countdown to the end of the quest. Well done, I guess?
 
New Quest Goal: Arrange things so that we can safely have Zabuzza and Yukino attend game night.

"They attacked just after sunrise on the 2nd. Nara's estimates were almost spot on: twelve jōnin; Zabuza; Terumī Mei, one of their strongest ninja; and the Mizukage. They attacked from the sea, sending in a fog bank first to give them cover. The fog was thicker than the normal morning fog in that area but not so much so to draw attention if we hadn't been expecting it. Since we were expecting it, and since they sent it in slowly so as to seem unremarkable, we had time to prepare and were ready with the counter-ambush.

"Sarutobi-sensei engaged Yagura, I engaged Mei, Naruto engaged Zabuza, and our ANBU engaged their jōnin. In the ensuing battle we wiped out their jōnin force as well as Mei and Zabuza." He cleared his throat. "I didn't see what happened exactly, but when I finished with Mei I saw that Naruto had just killed Zabuza so I turned to help Sarutobi-sensei, who had taken a wound in his thigh and was having difficulty opening the distance. Before Naruto or I could reach him, Yagura...." He paused, clearing his throat and wiping at his eyes for a moment. "Yagura killed Sensei.

Aspect 2 (Rising Conflict): Nothing Stands Between Me and My Prey

Um. Zabuza is dead and/or will kill us on sight, Leaf be damned, and Yukino has disappeared somewhere (possibly to swear vengeance on Naruto/Akatsuki/Leaf/us) and is likely dead.

Not that Yukino wouldn't have made game night hilarious.
 
You know, the fight was fun and all, but by my count Zabuza spent 13 FP during the whole offensive. Which is all fine and all, but he started with 7, and only earned 1 in the meantime, which brings the total to -6. Now, I'm not really sure how the system is meant to work, but there seems to be something wrong with that.

Well it was all Yukino's tale, which gives it benefits of the doubt, but still.

On the other hand - what the heck, it was cool enough, that I'm going to accept the tale as my headcanon, whether or not it was accurate :)
Actually, he started with 8, earned 1 and spent 12. But since it doesn't alter anything in the story proper, I'll just bump up his starting FP. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
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Um. Zabuza is dead and/or will kill us on sight, Leaf be damned, and Yukino has disappeared somewhere (possibly to swear vengeance on Naruto/Akatsuki/Leaf/us) and is likely dead.

Not that Yukino wouldn't have made game night hilarious.
How do we know that Zabuza didn't use his fake-death technique, which allows him to mimic the signs of death?
 
So how do you change your Aspects or have other people change them for you?

Zabuza has "Forever Alone", but Yukino is working on wearing that away. Since you're eliminating milestones, is there going to be a mechanical trigger or is it just as as the GMs seem appropriate for the story. As I mentioned when FATE started being discussed, shifting some of your aspects should be a pretty regular event for PCs, especially for a young PC like Hazou who is constantly growing and changing.
 
Looking through previous suggestions...
[X] Interlude: Kagome's itinerary of dismembered chakra beasts during base defense and associated research journal
[X] Interlude: Post-Mountain Politics
[X] Interlude: The Village Hidden in the Mountain and cultural mishaps upon exploring the new world, aka why is everybody proposing to me?
[X] The Adventures of Zabuza and Yukino

New Quest Goal: Arrange things so that we can safely have Zabuzza and Yukino attend game night.

Let me get this straight: you want to invite Zabuza in our vicinity? Zabuza, the deadly Mist hunter-nin, our brief nemesis and the thread's resident bogeyman? To play a board game? How two chapters of character development change things.

That's what he wants you to think.
I'm not even joking here: Yukino taught him the pretend-to-be-dead ninjutsu in The Sagemas Special, and he immediately thought that he would use it when confronted with overwhelming force cough such as Akatsuki cough. That seems really convenient for him, and suspiciously coincidental, from a reader's perspective. I'm not confident that he is alive, but he absolutely can be not dead.
 
@Winged_One, that was hilarious. I loved the 'serious academic paper' tone, especially the ""Implosion seals", Kagome et al, chapter 124". Remind me to issue Hazō +1 FP when we get his new character sheet put together.

Also, I'm quite confident that you have just started the End Times and that we are now on a countdown to the end of the quest. Well done, I guess?

Come on, it wasn't that bad. End Times are scheduled to start far later than this.

  • I think we can cut down the number of seals down to three; an impulse seal which can be triggered repeatedly, a rotational seal, and a chakra detection slice seal:
    • The design outlined by you seems to require 180+ chakra detection slice seals, placed with one degree of separation. The idea seems to be to detect it with a slice and then rotate to line up the target down the center channel.
    • However, if you have a chakra detection slice seal with a range of -90 degrees of elevation to 90 degrees of elevation and have some fraction of a azimuthal degree, and then rotate said seal, you can determine the azimuthal direction of the target with far fewer seals.
      • When a chakra signature is detected, the impulse seal should instantaneously fire, generating some amount of force. Testing will be required to see if that chakra pulse is truly instantaneous
      • Admittedly, this proposal is somewhat weaker in that it loses the elevational orientation that your outlined proposal has, but another set oriented for vertical detection should solve the problem with six seals.
  • Both proposals, however, suffer from the problem of pinging on ourselves, especially at the moment of release.
    • A time based or proximity based "arming" seal should solve the problem, with momentum and direction of travel taking care of the rest.
However, both seem to route through the chakra detection slice seal, which should be a high priority anyway.

On the other hand there may be a problem, depending on how exactly that casino seal, which is our only example of chakra detection at range, works. If it functions by sending a chakra ping, then we can probably build a chakra detection slice seal, admittedly with a high chakra cost and other possible effects from a high concentration of chakra. On the other hand, if the casino seal functions by being what amounts to a chakra Geiger counter, we're not going to be able to build the chakra detection slice seal with casino seals.

Not sure what you mean here. First of all, my design doesn't necessarily have to rely on chakra detection-Kagome's proximity triggers for implosion seals work through walls, since he mentions they would activate even if enemies tried to tunnel under them. It'd be nice to have chakra-based triggers, but ultimately it's not necessary, proximity detection works just as well.

Furthermore, let's try to clear up the confusion around why you need so many seals. My modified original design has 360 seals (though if you use 5 degree wide cones it's just 72-you can trade number of seals for accuracy) positioned in a following way in a spherical cordinate system. Azimuth angle from -180 to 180 degrees, polar angle from 0 to 180 (look up a picture on wikipedia, it helps).
  1. Cone from -0.5 degree to 0.5 degree azimuth angle, 0 to 160 polar angle
  2. Cone from 0.5 degree to 1.5 degree azimuth angle, 0 to 160 polar angle
  3. Cone from 1.5 degree to 2.5 degree azimuth angle, 0 to 160 polar angle
  4. ...
Direction where polar angle is 0 is the "center"-that part which rotates towards the enemy. Direction where polar angle is 180 is "back"-you stand there while activating so that seal doesn't immediately home in on you, because there is a 40 degree blindspot there. Alternatively, you can attach an already used timed activation mechanism to the seals, since otherwise I don't know how Kagome would activate his implosion seals with proximity detection without immediately blowing himself up. Alternatively alternatively, proximity detection can only work when distance to the enemy decreases, and not increases.

Rotation works because enemy is always detected by only one seal, and that seal has the rotating moment already hardcoded to be positioned in such a way that it rotates it straight to the "center" direction. On the other hand, suppose you increased azimuth angle to 90 degrees:
  • Cone from 0 to 90 degree azimuth angle, 0 to 160 polar angle
Now suppose you hardcode torque to go in an azimuth angle 135, polar angle 90 direction. Further suppose you detect three targets, in order:
  • 0 degree azimuth angle, 90 polar angle
  • 45 degree azimuth angle, 90 polar angle
  • 90 degree azimuth angle, 90 polar angle
Second target is successfully homed in, since it's in the same plane as the torque that will rotate the system. First and third, however, are missed, because seal still rotates in the same direction as when the second target was detected. In the ending configuration they are 45 degrees off from the "center". Now, if you add 3 more such seals:
  • Cone from 90 to 180 degree azimuth angle, 0 to 160 polar angle
  • Cone from 180 to 270 degree azimuth angle, 0 to 160 polar angle
  • Cone from 270 to 360 degree azimuth angle, 0 to 160 polar angle
Then yes, it will home in on the center eventually. It will, however, be slow and produce oscillations- a problem that often arose with early relay control systems IRL. It's much better to have more seals, each of which has much lower initial error in allignment of the target and the torque/rotation plane.
 
[X] Interlude: Post-Mountain Politics
[X] Interlude: The Village Hidden in the Mountain and cultural mishaps upon exploring the new world, aka why is everybody proposing to me?
 
[X] The Adventures of Zabuza and Yukino
[X] A family-fun outing into the deeper levels of the Goketsu basement!
 
[X] The Adventures of Zabuza and Yukino
[X] A family-fun outing into the deeper levels of the Goketsu basement!
[X] Chosen for the Grave part 3

Let me get this straight: you want to invite Zabuza in our vicinity? Zabuza, the deadly Mist hunter-nin, our brief nemesis and the thread's resident bogeyman? To play a board game? How two chapters of character development change things.

I'd have wanted to invite him to game night even before we became Leaf-nin if we could get away with it. Now we have Leaf (and maybe Mist if this turns out well) behind us so it's actually possible.
 
Excellent chapter as always, @Velorien!

@eaglejarl Back on the topic of swamp terrain, I very clearly recall (though I do not discount that I might be wrong) you having said that there was a variety of terrain types in the Death Swamp. This being the case, would not Hazou have built his fort where there were (relatively) clear sight lines?
 
Ah, one other question: How does this new system address your spoon-woes with regard to creating techniques and seals? I mean, the options for what a ninjutsu can do are more limited now, but seals are as versatile as ever.

e:

In the Fated to Die system, something that occured to me: We can use fate points on sealcraft, which by itself might seem kind of bad... but it also provides us with proper incentives to do things other than seal all the time.
 
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Come on, it wasn't that bad. End Times are scheduled to start far later than this.



Not sure what you mean here. First of all, my design doesn't necessarily have to rely on chakra detection-Kagome's proximity triggers for implosion seals work through walls, since he mentions they would activate even if enemies tried to tunnel under them. It'd be nice to have chakra-based triggers, but ultimately it's not necessary, proximity detection works just as well.

Furthermore, let's try to clear up the confusion around why you need so many seals. My modified original design has 360 seals (though if you use 5 degree wide cones it's just 72-you can trade number of seals for accuracy) positioned in a following way in a spherical cordinate system. Azimuth angle from -180 to 180 degrees, polar angle from 0 to 180 (look up a picture on wikipedia, it helps).
  1. Cone from -0.5 degree to 0.5 degree azimuth angle, 0 to 160 polar angle
  2. Cone from 0.5 degree to 1.5 degree azimuth angle, 0 to 160 polar angle
  3. Cone from 1.5 degree to 2.5 degree azimuth angle, 0 to 160 polar angle
  4. ...
Direction where polar angle is 0 is the "center"-that part which rotates towards the enemy. Direction where polar angle is 180 is "back"-you stand there while activating so that seal doesn't immediately home in on you, because there is a 40 degree blindspot there. Alternatively, you can attach an already used timed activation mechanism to the seals, since otherwise I don't know how Kagome would activate his implosion seals with proximity detection without immediately blowing himself up. Alternatively alternatively, proximity detection can only work when distance to the enemy decreases, and not increases.

Rotation works because enemy is always detected by only one seal, and that seal has the rotating moment already hardcoded to be positioned in such a way that it rotates it straight to the "center" direction. On the other hand, suppose you increased azimuth angle to 90 degrees:
  • Cone from 0 to 90 degree azimuth angle, 0 to 160 polar angle
Now suppose you hardcode torque to go in an azimuth angle 135, polar angle 90 direction. Further suppose you detect three targets, in order:
  • 0 degree azimuth angle, 90 polar angle
  • 45 degree azimuth angle, 90 polar angle
  • 90 degree azimuth angle, 90 polar angle
Second target is successfully homed in, since it's in the same plane as the torque that will rotate the system. First and third, however, are missed, because seal still rotates in the same direction as when the second target was detected. In the ending configuration they are 45 degrees off from the "center". Now, if you add 3 more such seals:
  • Cone from 90 to 180 degree azimuth angle, 0 to 160 polar angle
  • Cone from 180 to 270 degree azimuth angle, 0 to 160 polar angle
  • Cone from 270 to 360 degree azimuth angle, 0 to 160 polar angle
Then yes, it will home in on the center eventually. It will, however, be slow and produce oscillations- a problem that often arose with early relay control systems IRL. It's much better to have more seals, each of which has much lower initial error in allignment of the target and the torque/rotation plane.
My argument is that you don't need so many seals, though admittedly I should have read the spherical coordinate system page better; rather than try and iterate through 360 seals, eventually narrowing down to the center, simply have a constant rotation on the detection seal.

With this in mind, you can have a seal which covers an area of 0-160 polar degrees and as low a fraction of an azimuthal degree we can make it and still get good returns. Rotate the seal, and when it returns positive, add an instantaneous force in that direction (or whatever the calculated physics requirement might be). If you want a direction and keeping the new configuration stationary in 3D space, have a color output seal which goes through a set of colors and loops every revolution for a more exact measure.

For example, if you have an enemy at 45 azimuthal degrees and 90 polar degrees, the array will spin until the "forward direction" is oriented to 45 azimuthal degrees, at which point it will burst forward. Then the seal will rotate past that and continue moving forward. Once the array rotates back towards the enemy, it will burst forward again, until the enemy is in range.

Or, if the array is stationary, it will output a color which matches to a degree measurement.

That's the idea I'm going for here.

Though I suppose we could just go straight to the bang-bang controller. That's probably enough, to be honest.
 
My argument is that you don't need so many seals, though admittedly I should have read the spherical coordinate system page better; rather than try and iterate through 360 seals, eventually narrowing down to the center, simply have a constant rotation on the detection seal.

With this in mind, you can have a seal which covers an area of 0-160 polar degrees and as low a fraction of an azimuthal degree we can make it and still get good returns. Rotate the seal, and when it returns positive, add an instantaneous force in that direction (or whatever the calculated physics requirement might be). If you want a direction and keeping the new configuration stationary in 3D space, have a color output seal which goes through a set of colors and loops every revolution for a more exact measure.

For example, if you have an enemy at 45 azimuthal degrees and 90 polar degrees, the array will spin until the "forward direction" is oriented to 45 azimuthal degrees, at which point it will burst forward. Then the seal will rotate past that and continue moving forward. Once the array rotates back towards the enemy, it will burst forward again, until the enemy is in range.

Or, if the array is stationary, it will output a color which matches to a degree measurement.

That's the idea I'm going for here.

Though I suppose we could just go straight to the bang-bang controller. That's probably enough, to be honest.
Good, so you understood exactly what I was going for then. Except that there is no reason for it to rotate past the enemy, since then enemy would cross into the detection cone of the seal on the opposite side, which would push it back towards the enemy.
 
Ah, one other question: How does this new system address your spoon-woes with regard to creating techniques and seals? I mean, the options for what a ninjutsu can do are more limited now, but seals are as versatile as ever.
From some practice with starting up seals using one of our current proposals, it's not bad
 
From some practice with starting up seals using one of our current proposals, it's not bad
Here's a seal that you don't already have ideas for how it works from before, assuming you haven't already tested the system that way, if you like:

A paired homing/sensor seal. They need remain aligned and unobstructed from each other as other paired seals do. The sensor seal communicates, after a time delay upon being activated, with the homing seal. The homing seal then applies kinetic motion in the direction of the nearest individual moulding chakra. A later version of the seal ignores the "moulding chakra" requirement and instead homes in on the nearest concentrated source of chakra (greater than civilian/environmental levels).
 
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