Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Lord Marshal · Apr 25, 2024

I...uh, what stops Neji from leaking Runecraft/Lithosealing to the Hyuga the second he can/give them enough informations to try and recreate it? Because if i were him, i would 100% do that. It's not like they can punish the Hyuuga for "finding out" how to make runes.
Yes, the Akatsuki is the primary threat, but i'm not keen on our WMDs rune in the hands on even more ~~crazy~~ people.

EDIT: Yes, i know Naruto said "He won't leak Lithosealing", but are we actually going to just...trust a ninja's word? People would kill for Summon Scrolls, lithosealing is a fair bigger deal than that. Even if Neji can't literally leaks it, there are so many ways the Hyuuga could "accidentally find out".

RandomOTP · Apr 25, 2024

Lord Marshal said:
I...uh, what stops Neji from leaking Runecraft/Lithosealing to the Hyuga the second he can/give them enough informations to try and recreate it? Because if i were him, i would 100% do that. It's not like they can punish the Hyuuga for "finding out" how to make runes.
Yes, the Akatsuki is the primary threat, but i'm not keen on our WMDs rune in the hands on even more ~~crazy~~ people.

EDIT: Yes, i know Naruto said "He won't leak Lithosealing", but are we actually going to just...trust a ninja's word? People would kill for Summon Scrolls, lithosealing is a fair bigger deal than that. Even if Neji can't literally leaks it, there are so many ways the Hyuuga could "accidentally find out".

Yeah, I don't want to take Neji with us.

CitizenTen · Apr 25, 2024

Lord Marshal said:
Yes, i know Naruto said "He won't leak Lithosealing", but are we actually going to just...trust a ninja's word? People would kill for Summon Scrolls, lithosealing is a fair bigger deal than that. Even if Neji can't literally leaks it, there are so many ways the Hyuuga could "accidentally find out".

I don't know enough about mechanics to know. But isn't lithosealing unleakable? (Mechanically speaking?) Or am I wrong? Oro had to get an internship from a "master" (us) to start. Is simply having the knowledge that something exists enough for Neji to do anything? And if so, why hadn't it been discovered before? I could be wrong but I remember lithosealing, as a concept, was a thing before we invented it (like cold fusion would be today)

RandomOTP · Apr 25, 2024

CitizenTen said:
Oro had to get an internship from a "master" (us) to start.

Not really.

Hazou-pilot was of the opinion that Orochimaru could easily rediscover lithosealing on his own. And Orochimaru was well on his way to that. All we did was make it easier for Orochimaru to get lithosealing, in return for shinies.

It's totally learnable on your own.

CitizenTen · Apr 25, 2024

RandomOTP said:
Hazou-pilot was of the opinion that Orochimaru could easily rediscover lithosealing on his own.

Wasn't that because he had access to the great seal and could reverse engineer it like we did?

Twinnstars · Apr 25, 2024

T_of_A said:
This is a weak point in your analysis. There's a huge difference in required intelligence/processing power between "figure out how to climb a ladder" and "figure out how to move long-distance, taking into account the many other seals of the network to pick a good path".

And this is why the 'network' term is misleading. There is no network. There is no big computer controlling everything. Each other individual element does one simple thing, they pathfind to the two adjacent valid substitution targets to continue the daisy chain. When you're casting the substitution jutsu, you're manually choosing valid targets, and are limited by your casting of the subtitution jutsu. With seikyū, we're manually setting up valid targets ahead of time, and are limited by the amount of seals we've set up.

You can't choose a different exit point as you're going, because the jutsu always completes instantly. You need a valid path the second you press the button, then the path completes.

The jutsu does the hard work of picking an entry and exit point, then the chakra magic at each individual step does the simple thing that you'd expect.

If we're talking metaphors, I'm describing building an aqueduct, and being told it's too complicated for water to fall all the way from the mountains to the city.

CommunismWillWin · Apr 25, 2024

RandomOTP said:
Not really.

Hazou-pilot was of the opinion that Orochimaru could easily rediscover lithosealing on his own. And Orochimaru was well on his way to that. All we did was make it easier for Orochimaru to get lithosealing, in return for shinies.

It's totally learnable on your own.

Orochimaru had access to the Great Seal in addition to being an S rank sealmaster and one of the world's foremost researchers. Didn't we tell all of Leaf's sealmasters that the Great Seal was a 3D seal when we were trying to find a way to fix it?

Velorien said:
Naruto reached into his pockets and pulled out a rolled-up sheaf of papers. "This is my thanks to you. It's a combat seal that my dad used to use. It's called the Army of One seal, and it's a variation of the Academy Clone Technique. Basically, it surrounds you in illusory doubles that leap and feint and duck and dash and generally make it impossible for an enemy to get a bead on you. You'll need to research a copy that imitates your body instead of following these notes exactly, unless you want a dozen copies of my dad running around you. That said, his notes did mention that it was possible to research the seal again with different people's images, so maybe you could get it to benefit your whole clan."

So if we scale this up to a rune, we can get a rune that generates Minato shadow clones? 🥺

Rafin · Apr 25, 2024

Do we actually need Kei to check whether any weapons are sane? We could ask her to check them out after we researched them and before we share/use them.

Lord Marshal said:
I...uh, what stops Neji from leaking Runecraft/Lithosealing to the Hyuga the second he can/give them enough informations to try and recreate it? Because if i were him, i would 100% do that. It's not like they can punish the Hyuuga for "finding out" how to make runes.
Yes, the Akatsuki is the primary threat, but i'm not keen on our WMDs rune in the hands on even more ~~crazy~~ people.

EDIT: Yes, i know Naruto said "He won't leak Lithosealing", but are we actually going to just...trust a ninja's word? People would kill for Summon Scrolls, lithosealing is a fair bigger deal than that. Even if Neji can't literally leaks it, there are so many ways the Hyuuga could "accidentally find out".

Do the Hyuga currently have any sealmasters worth anything? Else, how would they even be able to start doing anything valuable in the next generation. And even if they have an actually good sealmaster, is he going to rediscover the art just based on Neji watching us do this and then describing it? Sure, Neji knows where to get more substrate, but that's about it. You need someone who studies a Rune in depth (comparable to a Kurosawa downloading it) and knows Earthshaping and has a decent foundation in paper sealing to get anywhere at all. And given the time frame we are talking about before the Hyuuga Clan can make any use of any of this, we will have already won or lost before it becomes a real issue. And once Pax Konoha has been enacted I don't really want Hazou and Orochimaru to be the only Runesmiths in the world anyway.

@Velorien @eaglejarl @Paperclipped I believe Hazou should know all the Hyuuga sealmasters of enough note to have joined the brainstorming back when he first created the Great Seal replica and he would probably also roughly know how good they are.

faflec · Apr 25, 2024

Rafin said:
Do the Hyuga currently have any sealmasters worth anything? Else, how would they even be able to start doing anything valuable in the next generation. And even if they have an actually good sealmaster, is he going to rediscover the art just based on Neji watching us do this and then describing it? Sure, Neji knows where to get more substrate, but that's about it. You need someone who studies a Rune in depth (comparable to a Kurosawa downloading it) and knows Earthshaping and has a decent foundation in paper sealing to get anywhere at all. And given the time frame we are talking about before the Hyuuga Clan can make any use of any of this, we will have already won or lost before it becomes a real issue. And once Pax Konoha has been enacted I don't really want Hazou and Orochimaru to be the only Runesmiths in the world anyway.

@Velorien @eaglejarl @Paperclipped I believe Hazou should know all the Hyuuga sealmasters of enough note to have joined the brainstorming back when he first created the Great Seal replica and he would probably also roughly know how good they are.

eaglejarl said:
"Ha!" said Hyūga Makito, spotting Hazō and Harumitsu's arrival and stomping over. "What is this bullshit? You created this thing just to fuck with us, didn't you? What was the plan, keep the rest of us distracted so you can get ahead of us on researching useful stuff? You're interfering with the war effort!"

Probably the best the Hyuga have to offer. I am as impressed as Orochimaru.

Lysbeth Succubus · Apr 25, 2024

Velorien said:
Chapter 654: In Which Hazō asks the Hokage for Cheating Eyeballs

Finally we get to do biosealing and/or medical malpractice!

Velorien said:
It was no longer getting late. It was now getting early.

And that Temporal Mastery seal Kagome didn't want us to do!

Velorien said:
Somewhere out there, Naruto Prime was already in bed and cursing Hazō's name while wondering what was taking so long.

As opposed to his usual way of doing things, falling asleep and then cursing Hazō's name in his sleep.

Velorien said:
But Hazō had just had another brilliant idea, and there would be no escape for his victim.

Or from the killbox

Velorien said:
"They're not my terms," Naruto said with weary impatience.

"Hazō do I need to repeat everything I just said"

Velorien said:
maybe a few hundred KEI ninja

There are that many? I keep thinking there are fewer KEI ninja than this but

Velorien said:
Naruto stared at him. "OK, apparently one of the people in this room is way more perceptive than the other, and maybe it's a sign of how tired I am that I'm no longer 100% sure which one."

No no that's cool Hinata's our fwiend. Or her clan will die trying.

Velorien said:
You know that saying, 'bars are the breeding grounds of espionage'?"

"We had 'bars are the spawning pools of treason'," Hazō said

Good drinks sink ships, infosèche, alcohol makes the enemy look prettier too, if they're drinking and you 'join in' you're drinking with a 'jōnin', everyone has their version of it. In Rock they say "bars are the damp cave where the treason mushrooms grow" but they're a weird people. Also, "treason mushrooms" has become a vernacular name for psilocybes, but they don't grow in bars, so the younger generation is confused.

Velorien said:
you and I can agree that he's not the sharpest saw in the shed,

"We had 'he's not the fastest tetra in the school'," Hazō said.
"Can you go one fucking second without comparing idioms?" asked a very tired Naruto.
"I can't because of a seal failure but thank you for being so understanding, jerkass"

Velorien said:
"Why would you ever want him, anyway? You realise you'd be spending months at a time with Hyūga Neji as the majority of your human contact?"

~~For a given definition of human~~ wait, no... ~~for the sweet sweet omake~~ hmm... you know what, Naruto, you make a great point.

Velorien said:
"Kinda sorta," Naruto said. "I remember Gramps once telling me a bedtime story about a summoner who did that, only the ground where he left had become so contaminated that he could never go back, and he had to live in exile on the Seventh Path forever. I think he was trying to cheer me up because I was being sad I couldn't be a summoner, but honestly, it just came out terrifying. Anyway, point is, sometimes it's better just to run.

We can neither confirm nor deny knowing anything about an exile on the Seventh Path and-

Velorien said:
I'm happy to give you Neji.

I didn't realise he could do weddings- OH NOT LIKE THAT

Velorien said:
In fact, if it wasn't for the scroll, I'd be tempted to say keep him.

Hm. Maybe like that?

Velorien said:
Also, no offence, but you've got a solid track record on sealing research and a very swingy one on diplomacy.

Hey, sealing research almost killed us far more often than diplomacy did! I think. Wait. Hmmm. There was that time with... huh. Okay so, fun thing:

Velorien said:
What do you do?

[×] Kiss Naruto Straight On The Lips Right Before He Dispels Himself

Sir Stompy · Apr 25, 2024

[X] Action Plan: Jiraiya's Heir (Redux)
Word Count: 599

Mari, Kei, Snowflake, Noburi (max-security conditions): Hazou is going on a long-term research mission outside Leaf. Postpone discussing it until Kagome joins.
- Discuss WHOOSH. It will be busted soon.
- We should be proactive: promise cooperation and share our training optimizations[1] with Naruto in exchange for benefits, such as retaining first priority on chakra.
  1. IC representations of our spreadsheet work; it's presumably highly valuable and took significant effort and trial-and-error.
- This would strengthen our negotiating position. Naruto would be buying an S-ranker-making trick, not just bribing Noburi to stay home.
- Mari, you're on it. Do it after we leave, so that Naruto has to deal with you.
  - You have carte blanche for extracting maximum benefits. Feel free to drive a ruthlessly hard bargain
    - Avoid alienating Naruto permanently
  - Highest priority: more A-rank jutsu for your kit.
    - Suggestion: look for esoteric abilities/attack vectors.
    - An A-Rank Earth Taijutsu Buff or more of Minato's seals would both be useful.
- After WHOOSH's discussed, include Kagome.
  - Does taking Neji work? We can't take four Summoners, so Kei would need to stay home.
    - There would be friction (to put it lightly) between Neji and Kagome
    - His eyes would be useful for developing stealthy runic weapons.
  - Kei, can you get to Toad? Even if you don't join us on this Path, we'd like frequent advice.
  - We plan to ask the Toad Sages to teach us. Noburi especially, would you help optimize our pitch?
    - We're considering between asking for training for the entire trio (Hazou, Kei, Noburi) and just Hazou
    - Latter is a smaller ask, they're probably more inclined to do favors for Hazou (Post-Crusade).
    - Former is better, but Naruto is likely to want maximal access to Noburi.
    - Noburi has better rapport so having him take point might help Sages agree.
  - Kei, if you're joining the mission, you can still go hunt chakra beasts with Yuno first. Just join us afterwards
    - Noburi, you could go with them too. It's been a while since your last combat.
- Fill out the necessary paperwork, then go to the Tower
  - Defer to the team regarding taking/not-taking {Kei, Neji}, and asking for training for {Hazou, the trio}
Toad Sages - Suggested talking points, let Noburi/Mari et al. adjust them as they see fit
- Ask for their complete confidence
- Explain the situation with Akatsuki on the Human Path. Akatsuki's dominance, Pain's inexorable pressure, the EN's impotence, Naruto's desperation.
  - Give them Naruto's recommendation letter
- We are in a desperate situation. Hazou has had to leave Leaf on a long-term research mission to keep Akatsuki from dropping by and discovering runes by accident
- We need your help to save the Human Path as we helped save the Seventh Path, but rather than your strength, we need your knowledge.
- Under your tutelage Jiriaya grew into a titan, possibly the strongest human fighter of his time.
- We are coming to you on a bended knee to beg you for the same sort of training he received.
- We have some ideas to replicate a fraction of your power, but we would much rather learn from you instead.
- This is not insanity. We have good reason to think we stand a chance against Akatsuki, in time.
  - If they seem interested, explain chakra filtering runes and chakra potential runes
  - We have the keys to rediscovering Minato's way of combining TH and Sealing, but we're about to lose access to our teacher. Could you teach a human TH?
  - (Do not mention in front of Kagome) We have cracked a way of using Noburi's power to make Shadow Clone training vastly more efficient.
- Would you accept us as your disciple(s)?

Velorien · Apr 25, 2024

Lysbeth Succubus said:
There are that many? I keep thinking there are fewer KEI ninja than this but

IIRC a third of Leaf was clanless at the start of the quest. Then Nagi Island wiped out the strongest ninja, predominantly clan. Then the Great Collapse wiped out much of what was left, exclusively clan. Right now, demographics are one of the reasons for the KEI's ascendancy, and for the huge power that control over adoptions gives it.

Lysbeth Succubus · Apr 25, 2024

Velorien said:
IIRC a third of Leaf was clanless at the start of the quest. Then Nagi Island wiped out the strongest ninja, predominantly clan. Then the Great Collapse wiped out much of what was left, exclusively clan. Right now, demographics are one of the reasons for the KEI's ascendancy, and for the huge power that control over adoptions gives it.

I was thinking more in terms of raw numbers than proportion, especially after the war

Halberdier · Apr 25, 2024

If we take Neji and Mari, she can investigate the Hyuga things subtly as they're both just waiting. May give us something.
If nothing else, me thinking the Hyuga were behind the bank run does seem more likely now.

faflec · Apr 25, 2024

Halberdier said:
If we take Neji and Mari, she can investigate the Hyuga things subtly as they're both just waiting. May give us something.
If nothing else, me thinking the Hyuga were behind the bank run does seem more likely now.

This is true. However, I do not see why anyone would tell Neji they did it.

Halberdier · Apr 25, 2024

faflec said:
This is true. However, I do not see why anyone would tell Neji they did it.

Oh they likely wouldn't unless it was generally known. And I don't actually think we should take Neji. I was just pointing out the upside if we do.

I'm on team Kagome and Kei, since I think she'd be better for helping us tinker with the weapons to take them out, but fine as long as we take Kagome and a Goketsu.

_The_Bomb · Apr 25, 2024

Velorien said:
You'll need to research a copy that imitates your body instead of following these notes exactly, unless you want a dozen copies of my dad running around you

That genuinely sounds way funnier. And I thought Jiraiya's Boo seal would be the thing that let us trick enemies into believing they're facing Konoha's best…. /s

acidshill · Apr 25, 2024

Wait a minute. Do you guys know what this means?

Genjutsu Seals.

We're so fucking back.

Buggy · Apr 25, 2024

acidshill said:
Wait a minute. Do you guys know what this means?

Genjutsu Seals.

We're so fucking back.

Distant screaming in QM

eaglejarl · Apr 25, 2024

faflec said:
[X] Armageddon Initiative

No, no, no! Do it right! The Armageddon Initiative vote comes later.

( ;> )

RandomOTP said:
It's totally learnable on your own.

Technically, but only under unusual circumstances. The requirements to buy the stunt include either having someone to teach you Primordial Sealing or having "sufficient reference material." The QMs had to discuss for a bit to decide that yes, having the Great Seal stored in your bloodline counted as sufficient reference material. Hazō told Orochimaru "you have access to study the Great Seal, so I'm sure you can figure it out on your own", but I am officially making no OOC statement about whether Orochimaru actually would have been able to.

Velorien said:
Then the Great Collapse wiped out much of what was left, exclusively clan.

I feel like this will get used against us at some point in the future, so allow me to be pedantic: that should probably say "exclusively or almost exclusively", since it's possible that a few clanless were visiting one of the clan compounds when it dropped, or died during rescue operations, or etc. Basically, we don't want the players coming back three years from now saying "you told us that it was EXCLUSIVELY clan who died but now you're saying that Joe Bob Clanless Guy's big brother died that night? Clearly it was a complicated assassination plot by Jashin worshippers collaborating with the Color Cabal and the SSSSS to take out an agent of one of the counter-cabals that we have decided exist despite having no actual evidence thereof and this totally proves all our theories!!!"

Buggy · Apr 25, 2024

eaglejarl said:
"you told us that it was EXCLUSIVELY clan who died but now you're saying that Joe Bob Clanless Guy's big brother died that night? Clearly it was a complicated assassination plot by Jashin worshippers collaborating with the Color Cabal and the SSSSS to take out an agent of one of the counter-cabals that we have decided exist despite having no actual evidence thereof and this totally proves all our theories!!!"

So what you're saying is, Joe Bob Clanless Guy didn't die to the Jashin worshippers in cohoots with CC and SSS? That means... it could only have been the Watchers! Of course! It all makes sense now!

eaglejarl · Apr 25, 2024

Buggy said:
So what you're saying is, Joe Bob Clanless Guy didn't die to the Jashin worshippers in cohoots with CC and SSS? That means... it could only have been the Watchers! Of course! It all makes sense now!

faflec · Apr 25, 2024

eaglejarl said:
I feel like this will get used against us at some point in the future, so allow me to be pedantic: that should probably say "exclusively or almost exclusively", since it's possible that a few clanless were visiting one of the clan compounds when it dropped, or died during rescue operations, or etc. Basically, we don't want the players coming back three years from now saying "you told us that it was EXCLUSIVELY clan who died but now you're saying that Joe Bob Clanless Guy's big brother died that night? Clearly it was a complicated assassination plot by Jashin worshippers collaborating with the Color Cabal and the SSSSS to take out an agent of one of the counter-cabals that we have decided exist despite having no actual evidence thereof and this totally proves all our theories!!!"

Or the Tower, or the Academy, or the surrounding areas around the targets...

DanZapman · Apr 26, 2024

[X] Kiss Naruto Straight On The Lips Right Before He Dispels Himself
[X] Armageddon Initiative

coldcutconvict · Apr 26, 2024

Velorien said:
It was now getting early. Naruto had started to yawn.

Something something spring comes early when the Fox sees his shadow.

Velorien said:
Somewhere out there, Naruto Prime was already in bed and cursing Hazō's name while wondering what was taking so long.

Huh. Never considered how problems like this would be resolved. Marvelous self prank potential. You only dispel a clone holding the expensive china once.

Velorien said:
Did you ever get the impression that Leaf doesn't have enough to go round?

Does it?

Velorien said:
"Sure," Naruto said lightly, "if you can get that asshole out of my village for a while, that'll be a fantastic–wait, what?"

Heehe.

Velorien said:
Naruto stared at him. "OK, apparently one of the people in this room is way more perceptive than the other, and maybe it's a sign of how tired I am that I'm no longer 100% sure which one."

Somewhat imperceptive myself.

Velorien said:
a stick up his ass the size of the God Tree

Not touching this.

Velorien said:
"Ninja get drunk and slip up, and no matter how tiny the mistake, there's always an enemy of the state waiting to take advantage."

The enemy of the state was in you all along? The enemy of the state was the friends you made along the way?

Velorien said:
(which, come to think of it, he'd been disqualified from without ever having a chance to show Hazō what he was capable of)

Wipes tear from eye. Good times... were uh missed when Neji's Youth spurted too forcefully to glory Leaf. Yah.

Velorien said:
"I remember Gramps once telling me a bedtime story about a summoner who did that, only the ground where he left had become so contaminated that he could never go back, and he had to live in exile on the Seventh Path forever."

Skill issue. Touch grass. Four summoners in the family.

Velorien said:
You'll need to research a copy that imitates your body instead of following these notes exactly, unless you want a dozen copies of my dad running around you.

Need a version that makes copies of father figures for strategic level, precision father figure targeting.

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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