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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Cariyaga said:
I agree with Oneiros on this one. We really, really shouldn't be making civilians more of a threat to ninja right now. At least, not without talking it over with other people first.
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I think I sort of agree with both angles here. That is, releasing button seals into the wild arms civilians (even if only when backed by ninjas) and pulls another block away from the jenga tower of ninja society. But also that it's safe to research if we intend to control access to them, and that it's probably possible to let some civilians use them without causing problems.

Consider the following arrangement: Button seals are sold exclusively by the Tower, in restricted quantities. To get one you must be a known merchant (or other reputable profession) with character witnesses. If you pass, you can purchase one (1) button seal. Once you do, you can only purchase another button seal after a certain amount of time has passed, calculated based on expected lifespan of the seal.

It'd still be possible for button seals to get into the wrong hands here. At minimum, someone could rob the merchant wagon and steal the button from them. But it would be impossible to get them in sizeable quantities, and thus any misuse of them will be small-scale. And if it's like that, I can imagine it turning net-positive for society, given all of the civilians who can enhance their productivity with storage seals.

We'd still want to consult with the Nara and Asuma and such, of course, but I can see it being worth inventing now, when we're in prime position for short and easy projects. If it doesn't turn out to be a good idea we just keep it in our back pocket until the world is ready.
 
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[x] Action Plan: Cracking Open an Old One with your Toys
  • Continue work on the rift (Kagome is SSO, defer to his opinions/vetoes):
    • Would lightning chakra help re-inflate the rift?
    • Is it possible to research a seal that exploits the "storage" aspect of what we think is going on, to interact with the rift?
    • Can we refine the diagnostic seal to get more info about what we think is going on?
    • Research Kagome's Directional Explosive to get a better idea of what's going on, on if that might help?
    • Conduct a more detailed study of the possible failure modes of this seal interaction to search for insights you may have missed?
    • Research a seal that interacts with "inversions" to gain veterancy in this subject?
  • Discuss what a rescue op might look like/require with the team.
    • We need ways to cope with potentially hostile terrain/entities/effects as a civilian. Bring civilian hunters on board?
    • We should probably try to build a base camp deeper into the rift. Without MEW we may need civilian builders.
    • Antimemtic effect may or may not target us due to never having "died".
      • Kagome, antimeme protocols?
      • Assuming we won't forget how to read, we can write instructions on our arms.
      • We can leave a trail/rope so we can find our way back to the rift in a state of confusion, but these may be removed.
      • Should take written notes about important experiences inside.
    • First priority should be scouting/mapping the area around the rift, and learning more about what's inside.
I don't intend to edit this. If you want edits, then copy-paste and make your own version.
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
Don't pressure Yuno to participate. Listen to anything she says about Asura etc. without prying.
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I think this is throwing away a very good opportunity to get some forbidden lore for virtually no cost. Would rephrase it to something like this
  • If Yuno chooses to share anything pay attention to anything related to the Asuras etc. gently inquire for more specifics
 
Oneiros said:
I think this is throwing away a very good opportunity to get some forbidden lore for virtually no cost. Would rephrase it to something like this
  • If Yuno chooses to share anything pay attention to anything related to the Asuras etc. gently inquire for more specifics
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I've updated the wording slightly. IMO there are costs to getting the lore - manipulating her into telling us things she doesn't want to/feels she shouldn't tell us damages our relationship. The changes are a move in the 'get her to tell us things' direction, but it's a version I feel comfortable with.
FaintlySorcerous said:
[X] Action Plan: Inversion!
Word count: <300
  • Overarching principle: EJ, write what you want.
  • Rift:
    • Pursue whatever avenues Kagome and Hazo came up with to re-inflate the Rift.
    • Lightning chakra?
      • Jiraiya left us a lightning seal - get a blank/his notes through the Seventh Path.
      • Kagome and Yuno are both Lightning users - see if they have any useful jutsu, and see if there's anything in the Leaf Private Library that seems useful. (Again, Seventh Path.)
      • See if we can find Arachnids or Dogs willing to help.
    • If we have time, research…
      • Kagome's Directional Explosives to better understand them/the Rift.
      • Seal failure modes - looking for additional insight?
      • Seals that interact with 'inversions' to build veterancy?
      • Let Pilot pick which.
    • Leave if/when it seems you've gotten enough data to progress research back at Leaf.
  • Nagi Island:
    • Sanity-check with Mari.
    • Goal 1: look for pieces of Pain's ritual.
      • Search for any remnants of the 'machine'. Look at the area around where it would have been - is the stone easier/better to Earthshape?
      • Look around for any remnants of the conventional seal.
    • Goal 2: feel some feelings.
      • Jiraiya is dead, but not permanently.
      • He was a mentor and a friend.
      • Spend some time missing him, being upset, being angry, and (quietly) reaffirm your dedication to getting him back.
      • Give everyone else room to feel their feelings, too.
        • Let Kagome visit the site of Kagome's Bliss.
        • Don't pressure Yuno to participate. If she says anything about asura etc., listen and be interested, without prying.
      • Ask our family if they want to pass notes/tokens/etc. for us to leave on Nagi.
  • Offscreen:
    • Ask Mari then (w/Mari's approval) Ami if they have any idea how hard it would be to get Ren's downloaded copy of Pain's seal from her and what approaches they suggest.
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@faflec, @coldcutconvict, @ContextBot, @Shrooms, made some updates, feel free to review. Mostly, I added in some of @MadScientist's research suggestions.
 
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As requested, I'm forking MadScientist's plan instead of suggesting changes. I've removed the difficult research projects, streamlined a couple things, and added in a section where we talk with Yuno about Isanese Forbidden Lore.

[X] Action Plan: Uncharted Waters
Wordcount: 299
  • Hazou and Akane: FOOM as much as is safe.
  • Continue work on the rift (Kagome is SSO, defer to him):
    • Would lightning chakra help re-inflate the rift?
    • Could we make a seal that exploits the "storage" aspect of the effect, to interact with the rift?
    • Can we refine the diagnostic seal to get more info about the rift?
    • Conduct more thorough theorywork on how this failure might have happened, in search of new insights.
  • Start researching a seal that activates an attached seal on chakra adhesion.
  • Discuss what a rescue op might look like/require with the team.
    • We need ways to cope with potentially hostile terrain/entities/effects without chakra. Bring civilian hunters on board?
      • We might need base camps deeper in Naraka. Civilian builders?
    • We could use MaRI and MEW to create an easily-visible tower at the rift site to find our way back.
    • Antimemetic effect may still target us despite never having "died".
      • Kagome, antimeme protocols?
      • Should take written notes about important experiences inside, re-read it every excursion.
      • If we need to prioritize travel speed, what's the fastest way to travel?
    • First priority should be scouting/mapping the area around the rift, and learning more about what's inside. Ideally find someone to rez as proof-of-concept.
  • Chat with Yuno
    • If anything we ask about would break someone's confidence or Isan's traditions, tell us and we'll stop.
    • We're interested in learning more about how Isan sees the world. The rest of the world has forgotten so much, many important truths are likely only remembered within Isanese lore.
    • Some of our grandest ambitions are interdimensional. Does Isan know what sorts of things are out there?
    • Also just anything the rest of the world ought to know.
    • If we wanted to learn more from Isan's Lorekeepers, what should we do?
 
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FaintlySorcerous said:
I've updated the wording slightly. IMO there are costs to getting the lore - manipulating her into telling us things she doesn't want to/feels she shouldn't tell us damages our relationship. The changes are a move in the 'get her to tell us things' direction, but it's a version I feel comfortable with.
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This does essentially nothing to move the plan in a direction that increases our chance of learning lore. If gently inquire is to manipulative for you I don't think I can convince you to move closer to a position I find acceptable
 
[X] Action Plan: Uncharted Waters

Ideally we could work on the CA Button seal in the background if Kagome has little need for us, but I'll take it. Could you add a line about Hazo + Akane using as much FOOM as they feel is safe? Okay if the answer is 0, but I'd rather try than assume.
 
ProperAttorney said:
[X] Action Plan: Uncharted Waters

Ideally we could work on the CA Button seal in the background if Kagome has little need for us, but I'll take it. Could you add a line about Hazo + Akane using as much FOOM as they feel is safe? Okay if the answer is 0, but I'd rather try than assume.
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Good ideas both. I'll have to start optimizing wordcount to make it fit, so it may take a short while to implement.

edit: done!
Inferno Vulpix said:
As requested, I'm forking MadScientist's plan instead of suggesting changes. I've removed the difficult research projects, streamlined a couple things, and added in a section where we talk with Yuno about Isanese Forbidden Lore.

[X] Action Plan: Uncharted Waters
Wordcount: 295
  • Hazou and Akane: FOOM as much as is safe.
  • Continue work on the rift (Kagome is SSO, defer to him):
    • Would lightning chakra help re-inflate the rift?
    • Could we make a seal that exploits the "storage" aspect of the effect, to interact with the rift?
    • Can we refine the diagnostic seal to get more info about the rift?
    • Conduct more thorough theorywork on how this failure might have happened, in search of new insights.
  • Start researching a chakra adhesion-activated seal activator seal.
  • Discuss what a rescue op might look like/require with the team.
    • We need ways to cope with potentially hostile terrain/entities/effects without chakra. Bring civilian hunters on board?
      • We might need base camps deeper in Naraka. Civilian builders?
    • We could use MaRI and MEW to create an easily-visible tower at the rift site to find our way back.
    • Antimemetic effect may still target us despite never having "died".
      • Kagome, antimeme protocols?
      • Should take written notes about important experiences inside, re-read it every excursion.
      • If we need to prioritize travel speed, what's the fastest way to travel?
    • First priority should be scouting/mapping the area around the rift, and learning more about what's inside. Ideally find someone to rez as proof-of-concept.
  • Chat with Yuno
    • If anything we ask about would break someone's confidence or Isan's traditions, tell us and we'll stop.
    • We're interested in learning more about how Isan sees the world. The rest of the world has forgotten so much, many important truths are likely only remembered within Isanese lore.
    • Some of our grandest ambitions are interdimensional. Does Isan know what sorts of things are out there?
    • Also just anything the rest of the world ought to know.
    • If we wanted to learn more from Isan's Lorekeepers, what should we do?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
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That chapter was an unexpected gut punch in the best of ways. Thank you Velorien for reminding me why I cannot stomach Naruto fanfic like I used to.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
As requested, I'm forking MadScientist's plan instead of suggesting changes. I've removed the difficult research projects, streamlined a couple things, and added in a section where we talk with Yuno about Isanese Forbidden Lore.

[X] Action Plan: Uncharted Waters
Wordcount: 295
  • Hazou and Akane: FOOM as much as is safe.
  • Continue work on the rift (Kagome is SSO, defer to him):
    • Would lightning chakra help re-inflate the rift?
    • Could we make a seal that exploits the "storage" aspect of the effect, to interact with the rift?
    • Can we refine the diagnostic seal to get more info about the rift?
    • Conduct more thorough theorywork on how this failure might have happened, in search of new insights.
  • Start researching a chakra adhesion-activated seal activator seal.
  • Discuss what a rescue op might look like/require with the team.
    • We need ways to cope with potentially hostile terrain/entities/effects without chakra. Bring civilian hunters on board?
      • We might need base camps deeper in Naraka. Civilian builders?
    • We could use MaRI and MEW to create an easily-visible tower at the rift site to find our way back.
    • Antimemetic effect may still target us despite never having "died".
      • Kagome, antimeme protocols?
      • Should take written notes about important experiences inside, re-read it every excursion.
      • If we need to prioritize travel speed, what's the fastest way to travel?
    • First priority should be scouting/mapping the area around the rift, and learning more about what's inside. Ideally find someone to rez as proof-of-concept.
  • Chat with Yuno
    • If anything we ask about would break someone's confidence or Isan's traditions, tell us and we'll stop.
    • We're interested in learning more about how Isan sees the world. The rest of the world has forgotten so much, many important truths are likely only remembered within Isanese lore.
    • Some of our grandest ambitions are interdimensional. Does Isan know what sorts of things are out there?
    • Also just anything the rest of the world ought to know.
    • If we wanted to learn more from Isan's Lorekeepers, what should we do?
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Click to shrink...
I would advise using more specificity on the "chakra adhesion-activated seal activator seal".
 
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