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No no, don't warn them! It's way more fun if they give me a completely free hand and no excuse if they don't like the outcome. Mwahaha!
In fairness to me those were always meant to be sketches of ideas and not for verbatim use in plans. (Well, maybe the Kagome one.) And the username-tagging 'hey FS vote for this' would have meant that I'd be looking over the plans.
 
So, do we want to try going for the Otter Scroll, the Kraken Scroll, or to try to capture a few high-ranking Tama to interrogate?
After last update (meetings galore), I asked EJ on Discord what he would prefer us to vote in, all else equal. He responded:
EJ on Discord said:
Off the top of my head and might not be practical for in-game reasons:
- go get the Kraken scroll
- go on literally any mission
- do some seal research
- interact with Hagoromo so there can at least be some icy snark
- allocate a scene to training Harumitsu
Undoubtedly other stuff as well. Oh, Otter scroll, obviously.
Also on the rules, his preferred scenes are:
Rules on bonus XP said:
Good:
  • Kagome
  • Fight scenes that have actual consequences
  • Badass speeches and power moves, whether in meetings or otherwise
  • Bold, high-risk moves
Bad:
  • Major focus on Ami (he finds Ami difficult to write)
  • Romance
  • Politics
  • Detailed economics with lots of fiddly bits and numbers
  • Talky meetings that don't have much stress
Some of these are infeasible given Hazou's injuries:
  • Missions, scroll hunts, fights
  • Seal research -- Hazou can't do it personally, Kagome is too busy with summoning training to do it.
While others are infeasible for lack of ideas:
  • Badass speeches -- who are we gonna speech to?
  • Bold power moves -- what are we moving on?
Concretely, I suggest we run a scene with Harumitsu or Hagoromo in it. There's not much content for us to do, so we can have one of the base-level bullet points be "Train Harumitsu at the Hagoromo compound", or something of the sort.

For gathering more data... @eaglejarl, do you enjoy writing polycule scenes? Romance is bad on the doc, but it feels like you've enjoyed the Ino/Akane scenes in the past.

Also, are there any scenes we want to run with Kagome? Are there any outstanding Forbidden Lore (or other lore!) questions we want to ask him? If we're going Forbidden Lore fishing, we have Yuno and Cannai to ask as well (EJ mentioned that he doesn't mind writing Yuno, for others who, like me, tried to infer a pattern from Yuno mostly appearing on Velorien's update).

Are we comfortable passing any length of time in this update to get closer to the end of the damn consequences?
 
After last update (meetings galore), I asked EJ on Discord what he would prefer us to vote in, all else equal. He responded:

Also on the rules, his preferred scenes are:

Some of these are infeasible given Hazou's injuries:
  • Missions, scroll hunts, fights
  • Seal research -- Hazou can't do it personally, Kagome is too busy with summoning training to do it.
While others are infeasible for lack of ideas:
  • Badass speeches -- who are we gonna speech to?
  • Bold power moves -- what are we moving on?
Concretely, I suggest we run a scene with Harumitsu or Hagoromo in it. There's not much content for us to do, so we can have one of the base-level bullet points be "Train Harumitsu at the Hagoromo compound", or something of the sort.

For gathering more data... @eaglejarl, do you enjoy writing polycule scenes? Romance is bad on the doc, but it feels like you've enjoyed the Ino/Akane scenes in the past.

Also, are there any scenes we want to run with Kagome? Are there any outstanding Forbidden Lore (or other lore!) questions we want to ask him? If we're going Forbidden Lore fishing, we have Yuno and Cannai to ask as well (EJ mentioned that he doesn't mind writing Yuno, for others who, like me, tried to infer a pattern from Yuno mostly appearing on Velorien's update).

Are we comfortable passing any length of time in this update to get closer to the end of the damn consequences?
On talking to Hagoromo... perhaps we should invite him to dinner at a public space and discuss seals that his clan would appreciate now that we have the time to research them. You know, make sure it's public so that when he inevitably says no, his clansmen know that.
 
Concretely, I suggest we run a scene with Harumitsu or Hagoromo in it. There's not much content for us to do, so we can have one of the base-level bullet points be "Train Harumitsu at the Hagoromo compound", or something of the sort.
I like this, we've mostly overlooked the guy (sometimes just narratively, sometimes we've literally put his training on hold) and it'd be nice to show that his training is back on track. We'd probably want a bit more than just 'is going as normal' though, so I'm thinking we either advance our machinations to secretly train him in the art of being a good person, or we have Hazou think through something else with Harumitsu's input helping him along.

We can add another fun scene to the update by having Hazou come up with Newcomb's Paradox and posing it to Shikamaru to see the inevitable nerd fight that results.
 
Would you be open to something akin to "Mari does not tell Hazou about the letter until after the Dinner Happens and after Hazou reports it to Asuma?"
As @Velorien said, nope. You can only control Hazō's actions, not Mari's.

For gathering more data... @eaglejarl, do you enjoy writing polycule scenes? Romance is bad on the doc, but it feels like you've enjoyed the Ino/Akane scenes in the past.
I do and have, actually. In fact, after reading your post and thinking about it a bit I've updated the rules doc to delete the 'Romance is bad' item. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
 
Also on the rules, his preferred scenes are:
Oh wow, there's a section like that in the rules? I never noticed.

I wonder what happens if we vote-in a highly nuanced interaction between Ami and Kagome, as both of these characters are favourite to write for one QM and anti-favourite for another. Will we get a first-ever fully collaborative update? Will the universe implode? Will we get a complex amount of XP?

We even have a perfect opportunity to find out now:
I like Akane, Noburi, and Yuno—and Kagome too, though I don't look forward to having to persuade him that my instinct to blow up the stinkers who threaten your life is as legitimate as his
What an intricate scene that would be! Ami and Kagome, their core character traits put into direct conflict! The high tension, for Kagome would not hesitate to resort to lethal measures no matter how "settled" the situation is proclaimed! The complicated moral quandaries that Ami will doubtlessly pose! The depths of adversity this discussing may plunge into! And the remote yet intriguing possibility of bonding over the topic!

Don't we all want to see that?
 
That reminds me, we need a birthday present for Snowflake.
Earthshaped Friendship bracelet, made from the inner walls of the Main Goketsu Family Building. Perhaps from around the Hearth. With added charms, representing the rest of Team Uplift (minus Mari, unfortunately).

If the idea couldn't be given to Yuno, it can be given to Snowflake. Same core concept: family, connection, all that.
 
"Right," Ami said. "So you feel that if, say, he thought a member of his family was murdering people by the dozen for their personal benefit, he'd say something to them."

Did condors count as people?

No one had ever condemned her for causing the Condor genocide. The Pangolins sang her praises. Hazō shrugged it off as a tragedy for which neither of them should feel responsible. Her loved ones did not raise the subject, either out of respect for her feelings or out of obliviousness. The population of Leaf at large did not care (even those to whom it was relevant, like the Hokage). Even the condors she personally met at the Battle of Five Clans had said nothing to her (and their summoner, whatever her feelings, was too diplomatic to touch on the subject).

But this was not about Kei. Ami was asking a question, and Kei was being too self-centred to answer it.

"Unquestionably," Kei said. "I understand that he admonished Haru for killing a mere six civilians, even before Akane became involved, and that was for the sake of the clan.

"However, please do not imagine that I have forgotten my original question. I have known you too long to be so easily misdirected."

"You got me." Ami laughed. "But no, Hazō and I are just a couple of people with common interests who occasionally have fun together. If you thought your brother was in danger of becoming your brother-in-law, then I'm happy to reassure you."
Oh hey, I think Ami is asking about the FGP! I don't think she's really framing it right. If the murders were solely for personal benefit, I think Hazou would say something to family members. But there were plenty of other reasons not to interfere with the FGP.

For a long time the playerbase was terrified of provoking Oro, and that would certainly do it. But we'd never get that far because the FGP suits Asuma's purposes of not having Oro kidnap active duty ninja. Any attempt to interfere would be put down hard. So there was little chance of it improving anything, a large chance of doing fuck-all and a small chance of serious negative consequences. Not a good plan.

Now in that case, what's the point of confronting Ami? The social spec jounin. It seems pointless, and likely to provoke a strong negative reaction. We could maybe trust our family members not to permanently change their opinion of Hazou over something like that, I don't trust Ami not to do that. So maybe her conclusion is correct after all, but I don't think it's as simple as she's making it sound.
 
Oh hey, I think Ami is asking about the FGP! I don't think she's really framing it right. If the murders were solely for personal benefit, I think Hazou would say something to family members. But there were plenty of other reasons not to interfere with the FGP.

For a long time the playerbase was terrified of provoking Oro, and that would certainly do it. But we'd never get that far because the FGP suits Asuma's purposes of not having Oro kidnap active duty ninja. Any attempt to interfere would be put down hard. So there was little chance of it improving anything, a large chance of doing fuck-all and a small chance of serious negative consequences. Not a good plan.

Now in that case, what's the point of confronting Ami? The social spec jounin. It seems pointless, and likely to provoke a strong negative reaction. We could maybe trust our family members not to permanently change their opinion of Hazou over something like that, I don't trust Ami not to do that. So maybe her conclusion is correct after all, but I don't think it's as simple as she's making it sound.
We expressed discontent with Ami's creation of the Final Gift Program, and Hazou proposed the idea of using the creation of FGP as a counterpoint to Optimization-Ami, assuming that Ami would have found the FGP morally repugnant.

Optimization-Ami corrected that misunderstanding, and now Ami wonders if she'll get a badass "Ami, the Final Gift Program is wrong, and here's why..." Speech. If we do, we're confirming we think of Ami in terms of family (a conclusion that I would be okay with fostering). If we don't, we're confirming that Hazou doesn't feel that way about Ami (which would move the ambiguity away from "family" and toward "stranger").

EJ likes badass speeches. Why not give Ami a good ol' fashioned Uplift Speech?
 
After last update (meetings galore), I asked EJ on Discord what he would prefer us to vote in, all else equal. He responded:

Also on the rules, his preferred scenes are:

Some of these are infeasible given Hazou's injuries:
  • Missions, scroll hunts, fights
  • Seal research -- Hazou can't do it personally, Kagome is too busy with summoning training to do it.
While others are infeasible for lack of ideas:
  • Badass speeches -- who are we gonna speech to?
  • Bold power moves -- what are we moving on?
Concretely, I suggest we run a scene with Harumitsu or Hagoromo in it. There's not much content for us to do, so we can have one of the base-level bullet points be "Train Harumitsu at the Hagoromo compound", or something of the sort.

For gathering more data... @eaglejarl, do you enjoy writing polycule scenes? Romance is bad on the doc, but it feels like you've enjoyed the Ino/Akane scenes in the past.

Also, are there any scenes we want to run with Kagome? Are there any outstanding Forbidden Lore (or other lore!) questions we want to ask him? If we're going Forbidden Lore fishing, we have Yuno and Cannai to ask as well (EJ mentioned that he doesn't mind writing Yuno, for others who, like me, tried to infer a pattern from Yuno mostly appearing on Velorien's update).

Are we comfortable passing any length of time in this update to get closer to the end of the damn consequences?

We can ask Kagome and other sealmasters questions about chakra ink and different medium for sealcraft, such as body seals. Commission a scholar to collect rocks, if we have the money for it. And so forth.

We could also have Hazo talk to merchants that work with summoners to sell goods to the summon path.

Or we can do a taleswap with the storyteller doggos.
 
On talking to Hagoromo... perhaps we should invite him to dinner at a public space and discuss seals that his clan would appreciate now that we have the time to research them. You know, make sure it's public so that when he inevitably says no, his clansmen know that.
I like this, we've mostly overlooked the guy (sometimes just narratively, sometimes we've literally put his training on hold) and it'd be nice to show that his training is back on track. We'd probably want a bit more than just 'is going as normal' though, so I'm thinking we either advance our machinations to secretly train him in the art of being a good person, or we have Hazou think through something else with Harumitsu's input helping him along.

We can add another fun scene to the update by having Hazou come up with Newcomb's Paradox and posing it to Shikamaru to see the inevitable nerd fight that results.
I think we are allocating time to his training, right? Like, it's just been happening off screen for the most part. For that matter...
@eaglejarl @Velorien Questions about time:
  1. How much time does training Harumitsu take?
    1. Proposed answer: 1 hour per day (comparable to real-life math classes), Hazou provides information, reviews Harumitsu's work, and offers guidance, but most of the time spent learning is done by Harumitsu on his own.
  2. How much time does training Kagome take?
    1. Proposed answer: 10 hours per day, as Summoning training is clearly exhausting and is much more than a full time job (70h/week instead of 40h).
  3. How long does managing/running the clan take?
    1. Proposed answer: It's flexible, but roughly 4 hours per day.
      1. Hazou has 9 ninja subordinates:
        1. Noburi's schedule is mostly spoken for by the wartime needs of his bloodline
        2. Mari can manage herself, and would only take suggestions from Hazou at best
        3. Kagome is being taught by Hazou, and needs no additional supervision
        4. That leaves Akane, Yuno, Haru, Atomu, Reo, and Mai.
          1. Each of these people gets roughly 2 hours of personal attention per week to make sure they're good
        5. The remainder of the clan management stuff is delegated off to Gaku, other estate ninja, civilian estate leaders, and others.
          1. This could suck up arbitrary amounts of time, but is about 15 hours per week at a very minimal level of hands-on-ness (which is just an anecdotal guess from managers I know)
@eaglejarl @Velorien How do these time estimates look for Hazou's time management purposes?
I do and have, actually. In fact, after reading your post and thinking about it a bit I've updated the rules doc to delete the 'Romance is bad' item. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
Noted, thanks.
Optimization-Ami corrected that misunderstanding, and now Ami wonders if she'll get a badass "Ami, the Final Gift Program is wrong, and here's why..." Speech. If we do, we're confirming we think of Ami in terms of family (a conclusion that I would be okay with fostering). If we don't, we're confirming that Hazou doesn't feel that way about Ami (which would move the ambiguity away from "family" and toward "stranger").

EJ likes badass speeches. Why not give Ami a good ol' fashioned Uplift Speech?
Imo FPG is awful, but still maybe better than the alternative. I'd be interested to see how Akane thinks of FGP first, since she's more deontological than utilitarian.
We can ask Kagome and other sealmasters questions about chakra ink and different medium for sealcraft, such as body seals. Commission a scholar to collect rocks, if we have the money for it. And so forth.
Sounds cool, like the segment that @FaintlySorcerous (I think) posted?
We could also have Hazo talk to merchants that work with summoners to sell goods to the summon path.
What would we get out of this?
Or we can do a taleswap with the storyteller doggos.
Sure. It's been about two weeks since Lore Update when Cannai told us to pitch our stories past Canaria, so it's a good time (assuming Cannai lets us attend a taleswap after we're done with our 5 hours of calisthenics).
 
now Ami wonders if she'll get a badass "Ami, the Final Gift Program is wrong, and here's why..." Speech. If we do, we're confirming we think of Ami in terms of family (a conclusion that I would be okay with fostering). If we don't, we're confirming that Hazou doesn't feel that way about Ami (which would move the ambiguity away from "family" and toward "stranger").
No, I think it's a bit more negative than that. Ami is thinking that if Hazou thought of her as family, she would've already gotten that speech, at some point in the months since she told him about the FGP. Since she didn't, she reasons that he doesn't view her as a family member with whom he could speak his mind and about whose moral character he cares, but as a powerful jounin interactions with whom need to be managed the way @Sir Stompy outlines above:
Now in that case, what's the point of confronting Ami? The social spec jounin. It seems pointless, and likely to provoke a strong negative reaction. We could maybe trust our family members not to permanently change their opinion of Hazou over something like that, I don't trust Ami not to do that.
So we probably want to run damage control on that.
For a long time the playerbase was terrified of provoking Oro, and that would certainly do it. But we'd never get that far because the FGP suits Asuma's purposes of not having Oro kidnap active duty ninja. Any attempt to interfere would be put down hard. So there was little chance of it improving anything, a large chance of doing fuck-all and a small chance of serious negative consequences. Not a good plan.
Which is to say, trying to convince Ami to shut the FGP down would have been analogous to us trying to convince Kei to unilaterally sever the trade with the Pangolins back when we were under Jiraiya's orders to continue trading, except worse.

But in this case, there's also an additional reason, which is that without the FGP the metaphorical Pangolins might've metaphorically genocided the metaphorical Condors anyway, except with more rape and pillage. Which is to say, I'm genuinely confused about whether Oro was kidnapping ninja prior to the FGP or not. If he did, I'd argue inventing the FGP was a morally good action at least under utilitarianism, and there was never any need to confront Ami about it.

Also, I'd like to point out to her that that argument during the meta-conversation was very provisional. It was primarily aimed at gauging her reaction to this sort of approach, and did not necessarily reflect our actual views.
 
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No, I think it's a bit more negative than that. Ami is thinking that if Hazou thought of her as family, she would've already gotten that speech, at some point in the months since she told him about the FGP. Since he hasn't, she reasons that he doesn't view her as a family with whom he could speak his mind, but as a powerful jounin interactions with whom need to be managed the way @Sir Stompy outlines above:
On the other hand, Hazou only brought it up to help Ami understand what sacrificing people who were entrusted to your care feels like. I don't think he's actually advocating for shutting it down, because while it's horrific Ami is largely correct that it was the best of a bad situation.
 
What would we get out of this?

Money to fund projects, hopefully scholars and books looking into geology. And hopefully Universal Basic Bison.

Could be interesting to interact with a merchant.

Sealing montage, teach Harumitsu and pick a project to look into, do the research rolls when consequences end. And hang out with a girlfriend or two why not :^)

A research project while Hazo is still on the mend?

How about this? We watch Akane test and learn how to use skysliders. She have shadow clones and skywalkers(must be hokage approved).
 
A research project while Hazo is still on the mend?

How about this? We watch Akane test and learn how to use skysliders. She have shadow clones and skywalkers(must be hokage approved).
@QMs, can we start doing the prep days for a research project in the tail end of a Consequence?

Akane skyslider is also a good scene idea.
 
I think we are allocating time to his training, right? Like, it's just been happening off screen for the most part. For that matter...
I assume so, but I'm pretty sure we did put his training on hold at least once in-story: I think it was when we were traveling to Arachnid, and we were told we'd owe the Hagoromo one for shirking our duty for a time (even if for a good reason). Since we got back from that I imagine we resumed lessons but it's still narratively in the background so yeah I'm still kinda in favour of seeing it on-screen again.
 
[X] Action Plan: Great Seal? More like Great Sensei
Word Count: 282
  • (offscreen)
    • Check with Mari, especially Taleswap/OPSEC concerns.
    • Update Asuma on the Mari-Kei-Ami situation.
      • Ask Mari and Kei (separately) how much to reveal and how to frame it.
    • Gaku: Make an adoption shortlist of estate ninja that have:
      • A clear disciplinary record.
      • Uplift-aligned actions.
      • Earned chuunin rank or equivalent specialization (like sealmaster).
      • Been estate ninja for six months.
    • Continue doing Dog exercise/patrols. Delegate Clan management to Akane/Noburi when possible.
  • Continue training Harumitsu.
    • Include him as the Leaf Sealmasters try to figure out the Great Seal.
    • Pay attention: his fresh viewpoint may have interesting insights.
  • Continue training Kagome.
    • During Summoner training breaks:
      • (have Fifi in the room on breaks for destressing)
      • Ask about sealing traditions with a third dimension.
        • Carvings, rather than ink.
        • Insights for the Great Seal?
          • Could Stoneshaping help? Demonstrate level of detail currently achievable.
      • Ask Kagome how he feels about being Arachnid Summoner.
  • Visit the taleswap with Canaria and Canting
    • Check with Cannai if Hazou can attend.
      • Don't fall behind on your punishments.
    • Potential tales to refine with the bards, then swap at the night of:
      • Battle of the Gods
        • Be careful when talking about Kakashi's death.
      • Hidan and Itachi at Todoroki
      • The Collapse and the Five-Clan Assault
      • Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny
      • Jiraiya versus the Squirrel Summoner
      • The Bear Clan, the burning of Cat, the land of Arachnids, and encountering Dragons
      • The Chuunin Exams events
      • Akane and Yuno's mission
    • At the taleswap:
      • Read the social norms and try to follow.
      • Appreciate all the tales, but if opportunity arises, see if anyone knows stories about:
        • Kakashi's feats as Dog Summoner
        • Feats of other summoners
        • Famous Dogs of legend
          • See what they value, culturally
        • Humans using nature chakra



I padded out the taleswap section with a lot of ideas. We probably don't need it all, so there may be room for more content. Otherwise, I think this is a nice trio of scenes. Hopefully to make the taleswap less spoon-intensive for EJ to write, the provided ideas give both a suggestion for what Hazou tells and what Hazou learns. Other than that, Kagome is always good and a Harumitsu scene seems worthwhile atm.
 
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I padded out the taleswap section with a lot of ideas. We probably don't need it all, so there may be room for more content. Otherwise, I think this is a nice trio of scenes. Hopefully to make the taleswap less spoon-intensive for EJ to write, the provided ideas give both a suggestion for what Hazou tells and what Hazou learns. Other than that, Kagome is always good and a Harumitsu scene seems worthwhile atm.

Don't forget sanity check.

Also ask doggos if they want to form a contract to see human plays and hear from human bards.

[X] Action Plan: Great Seal? More like Great Sensei
 
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Don't forget sanity check.

Also ask doggos if they want to form a contract to see human plays.
Taleswap is sanity checked with Cannai, who is the only relevant authority in the Dog Clan. Asking for contracts now seems a little premature, but can add it if you feel strongly about it.

@Paperclipped I would avoid including the liberation of Isan as one of the tales.
Why? I'm not especially attached to it, but you think the Dogs will see us in the wrong on that one?
 
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