Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

ContextBot · Jan 12, 2021

[X] Action Plan: Mari Had a Little Lamb

Shrooms said:
Could you take over our Mist Yakuza connection for your spy network?

This was likely part of Jiraiya's notes, so if you want to do anything with the Mist Yakuza we need to talk with Asuma, maybe moving this into the Asuma section would be better? Just ask him if we are allowed to interact with them in any form? If he gives as a go ahead we can still talk with Mari.

We could also ask him about Mizuki, Leaf probably knows a few things already, I kinda doubt they just randomly found him.

Shrooms said:
Emphasis: non-combat.

Internal: We'd prefer her happiness over the technique.

Mari doesn't have a specific problem with fighting.

She didn't want to manipulate people and then hurt them. Asuma would also just unretire her if he felt it necessary, it's just not important right now. I am sure he considered sending her to Isan, also something we could ask him about, it's been a few weeks since the deadline.

Eisenhelm · Jan 12, 2021

Eisenhelm said:
Unrelated Question, what happened to the mist ninja breeding program? , was that ever a thing or just jiraya's paranoia?

Chapter 211

I figured it out, the S.V staff didn't like it, you can see it in the staff post.

T_of_A · Jan 12, 2021

Eisenhelm said:
I figured it out, the S.V staff didn't like it, you can see it in the staff post.

IIRC the Mist ninja breeding program was only ever conjecture. We don't have actual evidence that they're doing it.
What the mods didn't like was the Uchiha breeding program. Personally speaking, I was quite happy to see that plotline vanish. It made sense in-universe, but OOC it wasn't something I wanted to read - and yet it'd be such a big deal characterization-wise and socially that we couldn't really fade to black over the entire mess. Just having it not happen (because of clan pride or whatever) is a less terrible solution.

faflec · Jan 12, 2021

[X] Sealing Research: Hot Tub Bubble Bath

Noumero · Jan 12, 2021

[X] Sealing Research: Hot Tub Bubble Bath

Shrooms · Jan 12, 2021

ContextBot said:
This was likely part of Jiraiya's notes, so if you want to do anything with the Mist Yakuza we need to talk with Asuma, maybe moving this into the Asuma section would be better? Just ask him if we are allowed to interact with them in any form? If he gives as a go ahead we can still talk with Mari.

This wasn't Jiraiya but rather our doing from the chunin exams from what I was told. We established some kind of working relationship that's been entirely in the background since then.

ContextBot said:
Mari doesn't have a specific problem with fighting.

She didn't want to manipulate people and then hurt them.

I thought it was the other way around? She's manipulating a bunch of people right now regarding the merchant council, but she got tired of killing, I thought. Are there any relevant quotes on it?

[X] Sealing Research: Hot Tub Bubble Bath

RandomOTP · Jan 12, 2021

[X] Sealing Research: Hot Tub Bubble Bath

faflec · Jan 12, 2021

Shrooms said:
I thought it was the other way around? She's manipulating a bunch of people right now regarding the merchant council, but she got tired of killing, I thought. Are there any relevant quotes on it?

eaglejarl said:
"Remember how I said I was tired of killing people, of lying and seducing and hurting? 'I don't need to kill you and I don't want to kill you', I said. Very dramatic, very inspiring. Moment of real vulnerability, right?" She snorted. "It was total bullshit. I had no problem killing him, I just knew that the vulnerable act would be more effective. Torture is usually slow and not good at getting information. On the other hand, take a strapping young ninja who's young and dumb and full of cum, make him feel sorry for the poor, tiny, helpless, sexy woman and he'll start talking. Get him talking and he'll spill whatever secrets you want." A half-smile, sad and twisted, flickered across her full lips before vanishing like a soap bubble. "And I made sure to mention in passing that we had a med-nin. Seemed pretty good odds that they wouldn't have one.

"Funny thing though: masks can become truth. I really have gotten tired of killing people, and since Kagome joined us I've gotten tired of lying and seducing, and everything else I've built my life on." Her eyes drifted off into the distance and she snorted in frustrated amusement. "The man is infuriating. Social skills worse than a wet cat and he's got me feeling like I should be more like him."

She stopped, perhaps thinking or perhaps losing her train of thought. Hazō waited to see if she would continue; after a minute of silence he started to say something just to fill the gap, only to cut himself off when she spoke again.

"That woman and her son in Hot Springs," she said absently. "I keep having dreams about them. Not like the others; they're never staring at me or accusing me. Usually they're having a picnic, in the buttercup meadow near where I grew up. Just sitting on a blanket, talking and eating. Laughing." Her cheek flickered and she swallowed. "And I'm standing right there but they don't see me. I'm not even casting a shadow." She laughed. "That's it, that's the whole dream. Me, standing still and silent and looking down at these people that I didn't even kill. They were just in the wrong place at the wrong time and they got caught in the middle of one more of my screw ups. And they're happy."

ContextBot · Jan 12, 2021

Shrooms said:
This wasn't Jiraiya but rather our doing from the chunin exams from what I was told. We established some kind of working relationship that's been entirely in the background since then.

Well the Mist Yakuza was mostly interested to work with us because of Jiraiya, assuming they care about us it still doesn't hurt to ask Asuma if we should even contact them.

Shrooms said:
I thought it was the other way around? She's manipulating a bunch of people right now regarding the merchant council, but she got tired of killing, I thought. Are there any relevant quotes on it?

Sure, but that's because she wants to protect Goketsu, as for quotes mostly this,

She doesn't like lying:

eaglejarl said:
"Hazō...." She shook her head and sat down, sitting crosslegged with elbows leaning on knees. "Hazō, I don't know if I can do this anymore. You're sweet to say all those things but we both know that you're cherrypicking the good and glossing over the bad. You've built me up to be this paragon of skill and human kindness, but that's just not me. I'm a liar, a manipulator. I'm not really good with people, I'm just good at making them do what I want. And I'm sure as shit not worth all the trust you seem to have in me." Her fingers plucked at the grass like ravens idly picking at a corpse. Her hair fell in front of her face, hiding her from sight.

As for killing:

eaglejarl said:
"Remember how I said I was tired of killing people, of lying and seducing and hurting? 'I don't need to kill you and I don't want to kill you', I said. Very dramatic, very inspiring. Moment of real vulnerability, right?" She snorted. "It was total bullshit. I had no problem killing him, I just knew that the vulnerable act would be more effective. Torture is usually slow and not good at getting information. On the other hand, take a strapping young ninja who's young and dumb and full of cum, make him feel sorry for the poor, tiny, helpless, sexy woman and he'll start talking. Get him talking and he'll spill whatever secrets you want." A half-smile, sad and twisted, flickered across her full lips before vanishing like a soap bubble. "And I made sure to mention in passing that we had a med-nin. Seemed pretty good odds that they wouldn't have one.

"Funny thing though: masks can become truth. I really have gotten tired of killing people, and since Kagome joined us I've gotten tired of lying and seducing, and everything else I've built my life on." Her eyes drifted off into the distance and she snorted in frustrated amusement. "The man is infuriating. Social skills worse than a wet cat and he's got me feeling like I should be more like him."

She stopped, perhaps thinking or perhaps losing her train of thought. Hazō waited to see if she would continue; after a minute of silence he started to say something just to fill the gap, only to cut himself off when she spoke again.

"That woman and her son in Hot Springs," she said absently. "I keep having dreams about them. Not like the others; they're never staring at me or accusing me. Usually they're having a picnic, in the buttercup meadow near where I grew up. Just sitting on a blanket, talking and eating. Laughing." Her cheek flickered and she swallowed. "And I'm standing right there but they don't see me. I'm not even casting a shadow." She laughed. "That's it, that's the whole dream. Me, standing still and silent and looking down at these people that I didn't even kill. They were just in the wrong place at the wrong time and they got caught in the middle of one more of my screw ups. And they're happy."

Basically: It's complicated.

[X] Sealing Research: Hot Tub Bubble Bath

PS: Damn you clown boy.

yokoo · Jan 12, 2021

[X] Sealing Research: Hot Tub Bubble Bath

RandomOTP · Jan 12, 2021

...Now I'm sad for Mari, again.

Shrooms · Jan 12, 2021

ContextBot said:
This was likely part of Jiraiya's notes, so if you want to do anything with the Mist Yakuza we need to talk with Asuma, maybe moving this into the Asuma section would be better? Just ask him if we are allowed to interact with them in any form? If he gives as a go ahead we can still talk with Mari.

Moved to the Asuma section

faflec · Jan 12, 2021

Shrooms said:
Moved to the Asuma section

eaglejarl said:
"I'll do the full briefing in a moment," Hazō said, "but first I want to ask one thing because it will inform the rest: Mari, how connected are we to Jiraiya's old spy network?"

"Not at all," she said. "We handed over all the information because we are loyal Leaf nin and we didn't keep copies because we aren't stupid. Do I remember some of it? Yes. Will I ever go near those people or share the information with anyone, even you and even under orders? No. Asuma might be warming up to you but I'm not taking any chances."

Can we please not?

ContextBot · Jan 12, 2021

faflec said:
Can we please not?

This time we are asking him before doing international politics.

Shrooms · Jan 12, 2021

faflec said:
Can we please not?

Hmm I'm kinda with you on this one. Moved back to Mari's section as "Can you handle our Mist Yakuza connection", not mentioning anything about "Spy networks". If she thinks telling Asuma is the move, she can handle it.

ContextBot · Jan 12, 2021

Shrooms said:
Hmm I'm kinda with you on this one. Moved back to Mari's section as "Can you handle our Mist Yakuza connection", not mentioning anything about "Spy networks". If she thinks telling Asuma is the move, she can handle it.

My whole point was that we ask Asuma if we are even allowed to do that, Mari and him don't have the same opinion on topics.

And you also want Mari to interact with Mist even indirect? They hate her more than any of our characters.

FaintlySorcerous · Jan 12, 2021

The Village Hidden in the Mist hates our collective guts for being traitors.

The Mist yakuza appear to be an entirely distinct entity politically. They have been unfailingly polite, offered us good deals, and generally displayed eagerness to work with us. While we no longer have the Hokage as a father, we are the head of a clan in the Leaf, we have a summoning trade network, and we have connections with the Leaf yakuza, who they may be interested in working with.

I see no reason that any of that wouldn't extend to Mari, especially if we were clear that we had appointed her as our trusted agent in these matters as, regrettably, we found ourselves too busy with the handling of clan business to provide them with the personal attention they deserve.

Before we let her off the chain re: actually doing something about this, we can run it by Asuma, but taking her temperature on it seems eminently reasonable. Even if she does stick out a feeler or three, a week of doing that isn't killboxable - if Asuma is upset about it, "I am extremely sorry, given that this was an asset we developed independently and did not feature in Jiriya's notes we did not think it would be inappropriate to reach out, please accept our notes and our apologies" should more than cover it. And she wants to keep us out of the killbox - given her previous statement of 'Hazo, no, we are not fucking touching any of Jiriya's notes that would be high treason' I think she's going to be bearish on the topic.

[X] Sealing Research: Hot Tub Bubble Bath

RandomOTP · Jan 12, 2021

eaglejarl said:
Kunio looked around vaguely, apparently expecting the world to explain itself at any moment.

eaglejarl said:
The world finally re-aligned itself.

Minor observation.

I genuinely admire your economy with words, EJ. You set up small things like this, and you properly communicate Kunio's confusion, his bewilderment, and the sheer scope of his "lost" feeling. You convey how, in Kunio's world, ninja are terrible and destructive fae, only ever offering poisoned gifts and cursed gold. You manage to convey just how utterly alien Hazou's benevolence and compassion are, even though by all rights they should be but simple common decency; other Leaf ninja pride themselves on being Leaf's guardians, Hazou often seems to be the only one who makes that self-concept a reality --a strange and unfamiliar thing to the civilians of Fire.

You set up and convey a mountain of emotion with two well-placed lines, and I think that's pretty awesome.

ContextBot · Jan 12, 2021

FaintlySorcerous said:
The Village Hidden in the Mist hates our collective guts for being traitors.

The Mist yakuza appear to be an entirely distinct entity politically. They have been unfailingly polite, offered us good deals, and generally displayed eagerness to work with us. While we no longer have the Hokage as a father, we are the head of a clan in the Leaf, we have a summoning trade network, and we have connections with the Leaf yakuza, who they may be interested in working with.

The Mist Yakuza is a group of civilian people working with the allowance of Mist. They have business with others, but that's about it. They aren't independent of the Mist clans, they exist because the Clans want them to.

FaintlySorcerous said:
I see no reason that any of that wouldn't extend to Mari, especially if we were clear that we had appointed her as our trusted agent in these matters as, regrettably, we found ourselves too busy with the handling of clan business to provide them with the personal attention they deserve.

Sorry, Mari isn't some innocent person, most ninja in Mist blame her for everything that happened after she and Shikigami left the village.

Do you want Mari to physically go back to Mist to talk to the Mist Oyabun?

RandomOTP · Jan 12, 2021

ContextBot said:
Sorry, Mari isn't some innocent person, most ninja in Mist blame her for everything that happened after she and Shikigami left the village.

Do you want Mari to physically go back to Mist to talk to the Mist Oyabun?

I'd like to begin with saying that I don't want Mari going back to Mist. Too many bad memories and bad habits that would likely do nothing but hurt her heart.

But that said, I don't think Mist would do anything to Mari1 --other than a very frosty welcome. As far as Mist knows, Leaf invented the skywalkers, skytowers, and may be working on a follow up. Leaf accepted Orochimaru the First War Criminal(trademark pending) back into the fold. Leaf has a scary amount of active Summoners. Leaf also seems to have tanked their losses at the Battle of the Gods and Rock's Folly2 with minimal impact to their overall military strength.

Mist isn't likely to go to war with Leaf by killing Mari. Especially since their Kage is, iirc, a chuunin who has sharks circling for her hat.

Besides, it's moot anyway since Mari can act through intermediaries. Also potentially moot is that Mari might have too much on her plate and decide not to mess with it. Or that it's a dumb idea and wouldn't encourage it (she might think that we, a loyal Leaf Clan, contacting another country's underworld might be a bad move... honestly not sure, could go in any direction).

1) the last time a Mist ninja messed with Mari, Hana was beaten half to death, nearly drowned, and sent back to Mist via Summon... that was actually a pretty cathartic scene, I might have to go reread that. (also Ami was half-drowned by Mari, and I strongly suspect that Mist has heard about that by now)

2) If Hidan is even moderately successful in killing off Rock's chain of command, I suspect that the Sinkhole Tragedy will become viewed by future historians as Rock's Folly. They tickled the sleeping dragon and were roasted for it.

faflec · Jan 12, 2021

RandomOTP said:
Mist isn't likely to go to war with Leaf by killing Mari. Especially since their Kage is, iirc, a chuunin who has sharks circling for her hat.

Velorien said:
Point of order: Ren eventually made jōnin in the years after her sister's banishment.

No comment on whether or not she's earned her Jonin rank.

RandomOTP · Jan 12, 2021

faflec said:
No comment on whether or not she's earned her Jonin rank.

...Huh, I could've sworn that Ren was a chunnin. It was why Hana was initially made the clan heir and not Ren... Maybe Ren was stressed to the max by her clan in order to turn her into a jonin? Or political shenanigans happened, I guess.

faflec · Jan 12, 2021

RandomOTP said:
...Huh, I could've sworn that Ren was a chunnin. It was why Hana was initially made the clan heir and not Ren... Maybe Ren was stressed to the max by her clan in order to turn her into a jonin? Or political shenanigans happened, I guess.

eaglejarl said:
"Consider the outcomes," Keiko said. "Mist is currently militarily weak, with no S-rank ninja available and a Kage who is only chūnin-level in terms of combat power. The four S-rank Kage, plus a major fraction of the Elemental Nations ninja power—in terms of skill, not numbers—will be going to an isolated location far from any support, where they expect to engage in battle with Akatsuki, a group of S-rank mercenaries. The Kage and their support will be prioritizing haste over caution. Finally, the location was chosen by the enemy, who has had weeks or even months to prepare. One of the enemy is an explosives master of such power that when Kagome discusses him, it is in tones disturbingly reminiscent of those used by Mari-sensei when reading the advertising copy for one of your so-called 'romance' novels."

Shrooms · Jan 12, 2021

RandomOTP said:
...Huh, I could've sworn that Ren was a chunnin. It was why Hana was initially made the clan heir and not Ren... Maybe Ren was stressed to the max by her clan in order to turn her into a jonin? Or political shenanigans happened, I guess.

I feel like it's basically inevitable that if you live long enough, you become jonin. Slow learners usually get ganked on missions, but should they survive, they can still become jonin too

RandomOTP · Jan 12, 2021

Shrooms said:
I feel like it's basically inevitable that if you live long enough, you become jonin. Slow learners usually get ganked on missions, but should they survive, they can still become jonin too

Rereading the segment @faflec quoted above, I suspect that Ren is probably a social spec jonin who heavily specializes in socials --to the point where her combat prowess is only at chunnin level.

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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