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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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TaliesinSkye said:
How do you see game theory addressing the problem of certain kinds of attacks rendering the human mind incapable of reliable reason?
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Well, it provides answers to questions like "Should I target [enemy nation]'s civilians to end the war faster?": Namely, it depends on how much you can trust the other side not to do the same, and how it will reflect on your own nation via other externalities. In modern times, the answer to that question is no because we've built up standards that punish that kind of defection.

In the past it very well could have been "absolutely you should" because you better believe that that neighboring tribe won't show your civvies any mercy.
 
I really, really, really hope that Ami date will be in the morning, because otherwise we just wasted almost full day on single one-hour plan. With this in mind I would've prefer to vote for something covering more things than just Ami, but since there is no alternative... A, heck,

[x] Ami Plan: Aided by Their Respective Inter-Universal Horrors, Two Lunatics Talk to Each Other
 
TarzanNn said:
I really, really, really hope that Ami date will be in the morning, because otherwise we just wasted almost full day on single one-hour plan. With this in mind I would've prefer to vote for something covering more things than just Ami, but since there is no alternative... A, heck,

[x] Ami Plan: Aided by Their Respective Inter-Universal Horrors, Two Lunatics Talk to Each Other
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Don't worry, it's established that chronology breaks down around Ami.
 
[x] Ami Plan: Aided by Their Respective Inter-Universal Horrors, Two Lunatics Talk to Each Other

@Noumero , what do we do if Ami doesn't want to leave the shores for whatever reason? Any ideas for a Plan B that isn't: go under dome seals?

Also instead of an ANBU we could take Pankurashun with us, that would indicate Keiko's support for the whole thing. Also he can swim and follow us on the water (Wakahisa are unlikely to drain him thanks to nature chakra! Yay no assassination!)
 
Noumero said:
Clothes: formal, clan colours + something subtly symbolizing Keiko.
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What subtly symbolises Keiko? This is something you should choose rather than the QMs.

Noumero said:
Employ Silence Mines (if approved).
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Apparently, this didn't make it into the FtD write-up (I've now added it), but Silence Mines are stationary. That's what makes them mines. You send a stealthy scout ahead to deploy them, then have the rest of the team sneak through in silence. Anyone who's ever had to try to sneak with a full-plate paladin next to them will understand.

Noumero said:
For political as well as personal reasons
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Another "fill in the blanks" issue. This could mean a lot of different things.

Noumero said:
Mind the innuendos.
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Do you want more or fewer?
 
Side note: it's weird for somebody at an ordinary casual meeting to be carrying a bunch of ninja scrolls around. It's a bit like turning up to a candlelit formal dinner wearing a camping rucksack and/or carrying a rifle.

Edit: Which is not to say that you can't, but it'll be conspicuous in a bad way.
 
Velorien said:
Side note: it's weird for somebody at an ordinary casual meeting to be carrying a bunch of ninja scrolls around. It's a bit like turning up to a candlelit formal dinner wearing a camping rucksack and/or carrying a rifle.

Edit: Which is not to say that you can't, but it'll be conspicuous in a bad way.
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Do we have storage scrolls, per se? I had assumed we just make the storage seal on standard size sealing paper, so this would more be like brining out your wallet, if your wallet was a stack of extradimensional bags of holding you use for keeping your lunch warm.
 
Velorien said:
What subtly symbolises Keiko? This is something you should choose rather than the QMs.
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I have no good ideas. I'm going to put "pink shuriken" there — it's bound to provoke some discussion.
Apparently, this didn't make it into the FtD write-up (I've now added it), but Silence Mines are stationary.
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Deleted. Note that they were used the last time we had a private conversation on the waters: you should probably retcon that.
Another "fill in the blanks" issue. This could mean a lot of different things.
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Added a new section to inform Hazou's mindset.
Do you want more or fewer?
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Clarified.
Side note: it's weird for somebody at an ordinary casual meeting to be carrying a bunch of ninja scrolls around. It's a bit like turning up to a candlelit formal dinner wearing a camping rucksack and/or carrying a rifle.
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Can't we leave them with the ANBU for the first part, then get them once it's time for the picnic?

Note changes:
Noumero said:
[x] Ami Plan: Aided by Their Respective Inter-Universal Horrors, Two Lunatics Talk to Each Other
Wordcount: 497.
  • Immediate reaction: grin ominously, say "yes, sir".
  • Thoughts:
    • As Jiraiya stated, working with Ami would be beneficial: it strengthens the alliance, gives us political opportunities, makes a powerful wildcard ours.
    • Additionally, reconciling her with Keiko would help the latter... and if Ami is indeed in danger, leaving her to die could have disastrous consequences.
  • Optimize everything below with the clan.
  • Goals. Determine:
    • How serious Ami is about the marriage.
    • Whether she could treat you as a proper ally — at least when you represent the clan.
    • Why she cast Keiko aside.
  • Guidelines:
    • Precommitments (overriding priority):
      • Don't talk about OPSEC-sensitive topics. Avoid topics of uncertain confidentiality.
      • Avoid commitments, unless Jiraiya explicitly allowed you to make any.
    • Maintain mental balance.
    • Assume that all displays of emotions are deliberate — whether they're genuine or not. Expect mood whiplashes.
    • Don't be intimidated by threats: they're bluffs (probably).
  • Clothes: formal, clan colours + ornamental pink shuriken.
  • Meet in the pre-established location, then move to the waters for privacy. Split up to get there, if necessary.
    • Have a backup ANBU watch you from the shore. Inform Ami of this.
  • Start by establishing a scheme to confirm integrity of letters
    • (Example: "nth letter of every sentence follows a pattern".)
    • Wondering if Letter #1 was from a third party was a headache. Never again.
  • Serious discussion:
    • Guidelines:
      • Demeanour: calm but serious.
      • Don't let Ami sidetrack you, or continue obfuscating. Be direct, insist on directness.
      • If she persists in playing with ambiguity and manipulations, even after several warnings: calmly say that you'll be waiting for her reply, leave.
    • Topics:
      • Does Ami want to join forces with you?
        • For political and personal reasons, you're willing to use your status as the clan heir to push for allying with her, marriage included if necessary. However, you'd need a clear statement of intent, with no further mindgames.
          • Some of her actions suggest she is in danger. Does she need help?
        • If she lies regarding this, you'll treat it as a major betrayal.
      • If Ami stated she'd like to work together, bring up Keiko:
        • Whatever Ami did when they met, it left Keiko convinced she hates her. With Ami's level of control, you doubt it's unintentional. Is it true? Why?
        • Letter #1 hurt her. It's partially your fault, but Ami is responsible too. Is she is going to treat Keiko with disregard? If so, you doubt you could be close allies.
  • If everything goes well (i. e., you get an honest answer, regardless of its contents):
    • Move back to the shore. Have a picnic, make small-talk.
      • Act more relaxed and friendly. Do not forget the precommitments.
      • Is it cold outside? Plagiarize ISC: bring chairs, a table, warm blankets, an iron barrel filled with fuel, socks filled with heated sand.
      • (1 FP) Offer her some Ichiraku ramen. Mention that Teuchi made it for us: everyone in Leaf loves his cooking.
    • Did she ever play any board games? If no, is she interested?
      • Avoid innuendos.
    • Hand her a post-interaction survey.
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How about a black cat-shaped pin?

E: Not sure if that would work with the timing though
 
Rafin said:
I'm not convinced. Even if Ami is not ready to ally with the Goketsu right now, or likes to mess with little Hazou, or whatever else that would be a reason for Velorien to interpret our plan as not continuing to the Keiko part as is, she could still be willing to answer us regarding Keiko. Who knows, maybe what she did to her sister didn't have the intended results. Jōnin are not mind readers.
At the same time, maybe she did what she did to Keiko for (in her opinion) good reasons and can't/won't be truthful about her motives despite otherwise wanting to ally with us. So she'll just lie.
In fact, the idea that she will stop all lies just because she is hoping for an alliance is pretty far fetched and, to be honest, a bit much to ask at this point.

Honestly, just imagine if we were in Ami's shoes. We had (in our opinion) good reasons to say the exact things we did to Keiko, we (for whatever reason) decided not to go find Keiko and tell her anything assuaging (yet), we tested this Hazou guy because we could, and now he returns and tells us to [insert all requests and demands from Noumero's plan here].
In such a situation, what would be our reaction as Ami?
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  • You do know that we know why Ami did that to Keiko? It was in her interlude: she severed the connection because they ended up on opposite sides of the Mori vs. Nara power struggle, and she didn't want either of them to be used against the other. If they'll become part of a single clan, there'll be less reason to maintain the deception — and if they won't, there'll be no reason to drop it.
  • She did more than test Hazou, during that meeting and (especially) afterwards.
ContextBot said:
@Noumero , what do we do if Ami doesn't want to leave the shores for whatever reason? Any ideas for a Plan B that isn't: go under dome seals?

Also instead of an ANBU we could take Pankurashun with us, that would indicate Keiko's support for the whole thing. Also he can swim and follow us on the water (Wakahisa are unlikely to drain him thanks to nature chakra! Yay no assassination!)
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  • Nope, no ideas. Feel free to generate any.
  • Pankurashun answers directly to Keiko. Keiko thinks along the lines of "if Ami wishes to hurt me, then she may hurt me". Are you sure you want him to be our bodyguard against Ami?
 
I would be more comfortable with an ANBU on overwatch. They will likely have considerably more punch than Pank, and be much less conspicuous.
 
Noumero said:
Added a new section to inform Hazou's mindset.
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This doesn't actually address the original issue. If Hazō talks about "political and personal reasons", and she asks about the personal reasons, is it your intention to skip straight to talking about Keiko?

Noumero said:
Can't we leave them with the ANBU for the first part, then get them once it's time for the picnic?
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It's worth bearing in mind that the ANBU are an elite combat etc. unit here as bodyguards rather than all-purpose assistants, but Jiraiya did say carte blanche. (I'm disappointed that there still isn't a plan section making him deeply regret this.)
 
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