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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Chimeraguard said:
Could this plan focus on doing either Runic Warmachines, or Defence in Depth? We can finish one with a combined action + Apprentice action, and do the same for the other next turn, but having both be partially completed guarantees we'd need to use up two of our own actions to complete them the following turn, and nothing for our Apprentices.

Sure, other work might pop up next turn, but even so, I'd rather we completed one job than left two half-finished
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That's actually part of the point. Finish them at the same time, possibly both with overflow and fish for synergy bonuses and we could for example go:

Runic Warmachines 2-1= 1. Devote 1 of our actions to this and the Apprentice action as overflow. And do Defense in Depth with two of our actions to get overflow there too. We did something similar with the Apprentices on Turn 3 with the Foundry Action. The last action we have free can poke Greedy Heart.

EVA-Saiyajin said:
Bungie, there will always be more requests related to the hold, and thus more of these "this is more important right now". Heck, this is just Part 1 of Defense in Depth, so I'm not really so sure that'll stick.
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Eva, note my wording was very specific. I've been in quests for years just like you have, including DL where we can barely research anything we want to (or it feels like it). I 100% refuse to just let research projects sit, because its silly to do so.
 
BungieONI said:
That's actually part of the point. Finish them at the same time, possibly both with overflow and fish for synergy bonuses and we could for example go:

Runic Warmachines 2-1= 1. Devote 1 of our actions to this and the Apprentice action as overflow. And do Defense in Depth with two of our actions to get overflow there too. We did something similar with the Apprentices on Turn 3 with the Foundry Action. The last action we have free can poke Greedy Heart.


Eva, note my wording was very specific. I've been in quests for years just like you have, including DL where we can barely research anything we want to (or it feels like it). I 100% refuse to just let research projects sit, because its silly to do so.
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Fair enough. I apologize, it's been a trying day and I've dealt with more people that would fit the description I gave than those who won't that it influenced me.

Also, im not sure overflow counts for the purposes of sidestepping the "only up to half" prohibition on Apprentice actions.
 
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BungieONI said:
Runic Warmachines 2-1= 1. Devote 1 of our actions to this and the Apprentice action as overflow.
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Not allowed, unfortunately. When there's only one action left to do, the Apprentices can't contribute at all. It was like this for the Altar Action back during the Troll Turn, which only had a single action left to do.
soulcake said:
you cant add an apprentice action to the altar at the stage its in.
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I assume it's because a '1 action remaining' Request represents the final stages where an experienced Runesmith/lord's personal touch is needed, rather than grunt work you can offload on the Apprentices.
 
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Mmm, I suppose completing the smelter will do much for drawing more newcomers, what with no longer outsourcing.


Chimeraguard said:
[ ] Plan Hold Development
-[ ] [Simple] Pure Gromril: Somehow you finagled the clans of the hold to agree to the idea of a communal smelter capable of making Pure Gromril. You've got a decent portion of the work down already, and the clans are pitching in and the structure is beginning to take shape. It is a work of art and craftsmanship as the workers have especially good reason to see a job well done; the smelter will be an engine of great wealth for the hold and clans that use it, and of course to show rivals how their clan is better at this task or other. [Cost: (6-3) =3 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
--[ ] 2 Actions
-[ ] [Simple] Runic Warmachines: The Engineer's guild has come to you with a request to improve the hold's war machines with the power of Runes. Their losses at the Battle at the Dragon's Maw is a stinging blow that shames them. Not that any dwarf blames the engineers or claims they didn't do their part, not much can be done when a bunch of daemons spawn on top of your position and destroy your artillery after all, but the event has lit a fire under their collective arses. The previous decade was spent cranking out bolt and grudge throwers by the dozen and what better way to make even deadlier machines than with runes? Well, it's sound logic, runes always make things better. [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
--[ ] 1 Action + Apprentice Action
-[ ] The Rune Metal Pt. 2: You've found a connection between Runes and Gromril, but it feels like just the beginning of something greater. You've found that in a moment of clarity, that Pure Gromril is especially important for the Master Rune of Gromril because of that inherent purity. [Cost: (6-3) =3 Actions] Student of the Odd will proc.
--[ ] 1 Action
-[ ] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 8 turns.
--[ ] 1 Action
-[ ] Order: Magma Dragon's Blood

Everyone IC seems to be really looking forward to the Pure Gromril Smelter going up, so I at least want to get that finished this turn. As well as some other clearing up the backlog of requests. Currently on Runic Warmachines simply because that one's been up longer, but I could easily be convinced to swap it for Defense in Depth.

Since the Rune Metal Pt 2 is now only 3 actions, we can chip away at it a bit, or alternatively, finish up our workshop. And Magma Dragon's Blood for the eventual Master Rune of Conduction on Trollslayer, which seems to be the rune we're all agreed on.
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Normally I'd prefer to chip away the Heart for research, but honestly there's a decent chance of synergy between making a Pure Gromril smelter that requires our direct aid and researching the stuff.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Go on...?
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Nah, that's about it. Gromril is a super pure, ordered material, therefore in order to have that be manifested from otherwise ordinary material, the impurities and metaphysical impermanence and essence of change that normally exists in matter is expelled from the gromril, manifesting as warpstone. This'd happen probably as a previously ordinary meteor falls from the sky. Then over the course of time, the unstable warpstone decays, leaving only gromril in the older deposits, as soulcake noted. They probably have it occurring for a vastly different reason than I do in my headcanon, but I wouldn't be surprised if the process were something along those lines.
 
[ ] [Simple] Defence. In. Depth Pt1: It has finally begun, a concession for getting you involved in this whole business with choosing the hold's new Royal Clan, the hold will implement a strategy of Defence. In. Depth. When planning its permanent defences, which if you were honest wasn't that big a loss for the Hold. With that in mind, such a wonderful piece of work will require a suitably magnificent set of Runes. While someone could never truly have enough defences, building what would eventually be a good seven layers of overlapping kill zones, guard towers and artillery is as good a start as any! [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other Will proc.
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This one sounds more likely to net extra benefits/overflow/synergy via our own experience setting up defense in depth than Runic Warmachines. Maybe even more if done in time with finalizing the Workshop's construction.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
This one sounds more likely to net extra benefits/overflow/synergy via our own experience setting up defense in depth than Runic Warmachines. Maybe even more if done in time with finalizing the Workshop's construction.
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It also came about as a concession from us personally, so it feels a bit awkward to leave it hanging if we're gonna be committing to doing one of the 2 action requests. It also feels somewhat more urgent. Actively building the defenses vs augmenting already-built warmachines.

On that note, I've swapped over to it from Runic Warmachines.
 
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Chimeraguard said:
Not allowed, unfortunately. When there's only one action left to do, the Apprentices can't contribute at all. It was like this for the Altar Action back during the Troll Turn, which only had a single action left to do.


Probably because it represents the final stages where an experienced Runesmith/lord's personal touch is needed, rather than Apprentice grunt work.
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Hmm. Oh well.
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Fair enough. I apologize, it's been a trying day and I've dealt with more people that would fit the description I gave than those who won't that it influenced me.

Also, im not sure overflow counts for the purposes of sidestepping the "only up to half" prohibition on Apprentice actions.
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No worries man.

Hmm. The thing is with the Actions we have on hand if we want to finish the Workshop right now, which is sensible to do in general because its like where we do our stuff, the most time useful way to do things is basically what I have. Bugger. Tossing out the Workshop feels like balancing on my head gorammit *grumble grumble*

Whatever lets do this.

[] Plan Santa's Workshop is Delayed For Defense
-[] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 8 turns.
-[] [Simple] Pure Gromril: [Cost: (6-3) =3 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Actions.
-[] [Simple] Defence. In. Depth Pt1: [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other Will proc. 2 Actions and Apprentice Action.
-[] Order: Magma Dragon Blood.

So this has similar reasoning to Plan The Most Metal Defense and Blood but goes about some things with a different intent. So all the plans put forward seem to want the Smelter up and running and it helps with basically every action we can take later because we can use Pure Gromril in our runes, and to a much smaller degree in other projects. It also is a good basis for Trollslayer because its just a Good Idea to build it from Pure Gromril if we have the choice.

Then Defense in Depth because of our previous experience with Yorri and the Workshop work we've already done. And if we have this pt 1 wrapped up that means we can work on Runic Warmachines and incorporate them into the defense expansions planning before we work on Defense In Depth pt 2. The blood is to get that on the go so we can have it On the Way because its a big bottleneck for the "falling star" idea I had for Trollslayer where we stick the Master Rune of Conduction + Rune of Might + Rune of Impact on the axe.

This will leave our Requests next turn as being whatever replaces the Smelter, Runic Warmachines and Defense in Depth pt 2 and anything else that comes up. (I don't want to do any of that if possible except to poke a Request with an apprentice action and like one of ours or something on Turn 6)

EVA-Saiyajin said:
This one sounds more likely to net extra benefits/overflow/synergy via our own experience setting up defense in depth than Runic Warmachines. Maybe even more if done in time with finalizing the Workshop's construction.
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If we can finish the entire chain when we finish the Workshop that'd be nice, but I don't expect we can and if we want to work on both the Smelter and Defense in Depth we can't work on the workshop. :(
 
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I feel that the runic weapons request can wait another turn and this turn we put our apprentice action into defense along with one of our actions that way we can finish off defense the gromril smelter and our workshop all this turn. Then perhaps next turn start on the greedy one research?
 
BungieONI said:
If we can finish the entire chain when we finish the Workshop that'd be nice, but I don't expect we can and if we want to work on both the Smelter and Defense in Depth we can't work on the workshop. :(
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Well, looking at your plan we kind of can. Move one of the actions on Defense in Depth to the workshop, replace it with an apprentice action which does exactly one half of that.
 
[ ] Plan Defence! In! Depth!
-[ ] [Simple] Pure Gromril: Somehow you finagled the clans of the hold to agree to the idea of a communal smelter capable of making Pure Gromril. You've got a decent portion of the work down already, and the clans are pitching in and the structure is beginning to take shape. It is a work of art and craftsmanship as the workers have especially good reason to see a job well done; the smelter will be an engine of great wealth for the hold and clans that use it, and of course to show rivals how their clan is better at this task or other. [Cost: (6-3) =3 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
--[ ] 2 Actions
-[ ] [Simple] Defence. In. Depth Pt1: It has finally begun, a concession for getting you involved in this whole business with choosing the hold's new Royal Clan, the hold will implement a strategy of Defence. In. Depth. When planning its permanent defences, which if you were honest wasn't that big a loss for the Hold. With that in mind, such a wonderful piece of work will require a suitably magnificent set of Runes. While someone could never truly have enough defences, building what would eventually be a good seven layers of overlapping kill zones, guard towers and artillery is as good a start as any! [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other Will proc.
--[ ] 2 Actions + Apprentice Action
-[ ] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 8 turns.
--[ ] 1 Action
-[ ] Order: Magma Dragon's Blood

This is our best opportunity to go for maximum overflow on the defences.
 
BungieONI said:
That's actually part of the point. Finish them at the same time, possibly both with overflow and fish for synergy bonuses and we could for example go:

Runic Warmachines 2-1= 1. Devote 1 of our actions to this and the Apprentice action as overflow. And do Defense in Depth with two of our actions to get overflow there too. We did something similar with the Apprentices on Turn 3 with the Foundry Action. The last action we have free can poke Greedy Heart.
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Why would you want overflow on those projects though, when this turn your actively sacrificing overflow on the Smelter project which seems even more important for Kraka Drakk? Given it'll be the source of trade revenue in the future, it'll be where our best weapons and armor is created, it'll be a source of prestige which'll attract more immigrants ect, and it synergy's with our Rune Metal research.

This very update we witnessed a character who has a background in blacksmithing and is over a millenia old; so there's a chance he is aware of various secrets relating to Gromril which we could benefit from.
 
ConfusedCanuck said:
I feel that the runic weapons request can wait another turn and this turn we put our apprentice action into defense along with one of our actions that way we can finish off defense the gromril smelter and our workshop all this turn. Then perhaps next turn start on the greedy one research?
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Well, looking at your plan we kind of can. Move one of the actions on Defense in Depth to the workshop, replace it with an apprentice action which does exactly one half of that.
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We can't though. We can't use Apprentice actions to finish a thing.
 
Neptune said:
Why would you want overflow on those projects though, when this turn your actively sacrificing overflow on the Smelter project which seems even more important for Kraka Drakk? Given it'll be the source of trade revenue in the future, it'll be where our best weapons and armor is created, it'll be a source of prestige which'll attract more immigrants ect, and it synergy's with our Rune Metal research.

This very update we witnessed a character who has a background in blacksmithing and is over a millenia old; so there's a chance he is aware of various secrets relating to Gromril which we could benefit from.
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Because I'm not sacrificing overflow and the difference between 2 of our actions and one Productivity proc and 2 of our actions plus an apprentice action is a hidden detail which digs into mechanics we as players haven't been privy too up to this point so its difficult to talk about with any kind of accuracy.

Anyway that plan isn't what I'm going for anymore so its moot.
 
BungieONI said:
[] Plan Santa's Workshop is Delayed For Defense
-[] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 8 turns.
-[] [Simple] Pure Gromril: [Cost: (6-3) =3 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Actions.
-[] [Simple] Defence. In. Depth Pt1: [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other Will proc. 2 Actions.
-[] Order: Magma Dragon Blood.
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You're missing apprentice actions on this. If nothing else, you can add it to one of the requests it's still doing for overflow.

BungieONI said:
We can't though. We can't use Apprentice actions to finish a thing.
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Actually, we can. It's just that we can't use an Apprentice action on a job that only has 1 action remaining to do for standard completion.

Like, a 2 action job, we can finish with an apprentice action and a regular one, or have an apprentice action and two regulars for overflow. But if we do one action this turn, then that leaves 1 action remaining to finish it, at which point we're not allowed to use an apprentice action on it.
 
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I kind of want to see what happens when we hit Defence with effectively 4 actions instead of the required 2.
 
Chimeraguard said:
You're missing apprentice actions on this. If nothing else, you can add it to one of the requests it's still doing for overflow.


Actually, we can. It's just that we can't use an Apprentice action on a job that only has 1 action remaining to do for standard completion.

Like, a 2 action job, we can finish with an apprentice action and a regular one, or have an apprentice action and two regulars for overflow. But if we do one action this turn, then that leaves 1 action remaining to finish it, at which point we're not allowed to use an apprentice action on it.
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soulcake said:
Gain:
- Apprentice Specialties! Fjolla has a double specialty for Talismanic Runes while Dolgi has specialties in Weapon and Engineering Runes.
- Apprentice Work! Both your shoddy little charges have progressed in skill enough that you deign to trust them with the most basic of tasks. Apprentices can now add 1 whole action worth or progress a turn to a Simple Request up to half of its main total cost rounded down you CANNOT complete a request with the apprentice action. So for instance, if you have a simple request that costs 3 actions, your apprentices could add (1.5 rounded down) = 1 whole actions worth of progress to it. If that action was at 2 actions you could not apply the apprentice action to complete it. You've unlocked this early because I've rolled very well on both their progress and interactions with each other in the background. Narratively this is work you can pass off to them, hauling supplies, setting up scaffolding, heating up ore, things like this. Still dont trust them to actually inscribe the runes of course.
- Grudge: Trolls. Actions toward settling this grudge gain +1 action worth of progress. +10 Bonus to rolls against Trolls.
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We can't Complete Requests with them unfortunately.

Thanks for the action note though!
 
Neptune said:
[X] Plan Overflow Smelter and Odd Place
-[X] [Simple] Pure Gromril: Somehow you finagled the clans of the hold to agree to the idea of a communal smelter capable of making Pure Gromril. You've got a decent portion of the work down already, and the clans are pitching in and the structure is beginning to take shape. It is a work of art and craftsmanship as the workers have especially good reason to see a job well done; the smelter will be an engine of great wealth for the hold and clans that use it, and of course to show rivals how their clan is better at this task or other. [Cost: (6-3) =3 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
--[X] 2 Actions + Apprentice Action
[X] Expanding the Workshop, Protection: You've a workshop and a home fit for a Runelord, but in your mind's eye you see yet more things to do. Any research regarding the Master Runes will require a level of protection that your current facility simply doesn't have. The cost is irrelevant, it is the materials you need that are the true bottleneck. You've got the Gromril and Dragon Blood necessary for the Rune you need now. [Cost: (2-1) =1 actions, -1 vial of Dragon's Blood-]
[X] Odd Places 1/10: Look on Master Yorri's map and try and discover one of his marked locations. The locations will certainly be odd, but whether they'll be useful will remain to be seen. [Cost: 1 action] Roll for usefulness.
--[X] 1 Action
-[X] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 8 turns.
--[X] 1 Action
-[X] Order: Magma Dragon's Blood

Anyway, this is my plan for the turn. The goal of it is to take advantage of our trait bonus and utilize the overflow mechanic on both the Pure Gromril Smelter as it's essential to the development of the hold. The Gromril smelter will be a source of revenue in the future, a way to produce superior weapons and armors with which to defend the hold, and a matter of prestige for both intra-clan relations as demonstrated this very chapter but also through the Karaz Ankor. There is also a potential benefit as mentioned above given there is a millenia year old master blacksmith in the hold we can potentially poke some knowledge out of given we're very likely to pursue Gromril research in the future.

I followed up and finished the workshop as we don't want to ideally leave it unfinished, which left me with a single action. The final action was put on Odd Place as this is the fifth decade we've been here now and we haven't really taken further advantage of actually exploring the area surrounding Kraka Drakk and utilizing one of the bonuses from our teacher. Frankly this option could lead anywhere given how Yorri has been described, it'd be nice to go on a bit of an adventure of our own and follow on his own path with our own apprentices in tow and see what we can find out in the world and we've been shown in the narrative the benefits of inspiration striking.
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Yo.

soulcake said:
Remember to vote by plan. There will be a two-hour moratorium for discussion.
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
[] Plan Betting on Synergy
-[ ] Expanding the Workshop, Protection: You've a workshop and a home fit for a Runelord, but in your mind's eye you see yet more things to do. Any research regarding the Master Runes will require a level of protection that your current facility simply doesn't have. The cost is irrelevant, it is the materials you need that are the true bottleneck. You've got the Gromril and Dragon Blood necessary for the Rune you need now. [Cost: (2-1) =1 actions, -1 vial of Dragon's Blood-]
—[] 1 action
Simple] Pure Gromril: Somehow you finagled the clans of the hold to agree to the idea of a communal smelter capable of making Pure Gromril. You've got a decent portion of the work down already, and the clans are pitching in and the structure is beginning to take shape. It is a work of art and craftsmanship as the workers have especially good reason to see a job well done; the smelter will be an engine of great wealth for the hold and clans that use it, and of course to show rivals how their clan is better at this task or other. [Cost: (6-3) =3 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
--[ ] 2 Actions
-[ ] [Simple] Defence. In. Depth Pt1: It has finally begun, a concession for getting you involved in this whole business with choosing the hold's new Royal Clan, the hold will implement a strategy of Defence. In. Depth. When planning its permanent defences, which if you were honest wasn't that big a loss for the Hold. With that in mind, such a wonderful piece of work will require a suitably magnificent set of Runes. While someone could never truly have enough defences, building what would eventually be a good seven layers of overlapping kill zones, guard towers and artillery is as good a start as any! [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other Will proc.
--[ ] 1 Apprentice Action
-[ ] The Rune Metal Pt. 2: You've found a connection between Runes and Gromril, but it feels like just the beginning of something greater. You've found that in a moment of clarity, that Pure Gromril is especially important for the Master Rune of Gromril because of that inherent purity. [Cost: (6-3) =3 Actions] Student of the Odd will proc.
--[ ] 1 Action
-[ ] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 8 turns.
--[ ] 1 Action
-[ ] Order: Magma Dragon's Blood

What synergy? We DiD our workshop, now apply that and the extra protection stuff to the defenses of the hold.

Spend a lot of time around Gromril to make a smelter for it? Research into Gromril.

Gromril works really well with runes And it's deeper mysteries are rooted in metaphysical concepts? Special runic research in the workshop requires special construction.
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Good idea, but we cannot complete Requests with Apprentice actions.


soulcake said:
Gain:
- Apprentice Specialties! Fjolla has a double specialty for Talismanic Runes while Dolgi has specialties in Weapon and Engineering Runes.
- Apprentice Work! Both your shoddy little charges have progressed in skill enough that you deign to trust them with the most basic of tasks. Apprentices can now add 1 whole action worth or progress a turn to a Simple Request up to half of its main total cost rounded down you CANNOT complete a request with the apprentice action. So for instance, if you have a simple request that costs 3 actions, your apprentices could add (1.5 rounded down) = 1 whole actions worth of progress to it. If that action was at 2 actions you could not apply the apprentice action to complete it. You've unlocked this early because I've rolled very well on both their progress and interactions with each other in the background. Narratively this is work you can pass off to them, hauling supplies, setting up scaffolding, heating up ore, things like this. Still dont trust them to actually inscribe the runes of course.
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E: ah edits, never mind.
 
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[ ] Plan Project Completion Hat Trick
-[ ] Expanding the Workshop, Protection: You've a workshop and a home fit for a Runelord, but in your mind's eye you see yet more things to do. Any research regarding the Master Runes will require a level of protection that your current facility simply doesn't have. The cost is irrelevant, it is the materials you need that are the true bottleneck. You've got the Gromril and Dragon Blood necessary for the Rune you need now. [Cost: (2-1) =1 actions, -1 vial of Dragon's Blood-]
--[ ] 1 Action
-[ ] [Simple] Pure Gromril: Somehow you finagled the clans of the hold to agree to the idea of a communal smelter capable of making Pure Gromril. You've got a decent portion of the work down already, and the clans are pitching in and the structure is beginning to take shape. It is a work of art and craftsmanship as the workers have especially good reason to see a job well done; the smelter will be an engine of great wealth for the hold and clans that use it, and of course to show rivals how their clan is better at this task or other. [Cost: (6-3) =3 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
--[ ] 2 Actions
-[ ] [Simple] Defence. In. Depth Pt1: It has finally begun, a concession for getting you involved in this whole business with choosing the hold's new Royal Clan, the hold will implement a strategy of Defence. In. Depth. When planning its permanent defences, which if you were honest wasn't that big a loss for the Hold. With that in mind, such a wonderful piece of work will require a suitably magnificent set of Runes. While someone could never truly have enough defences, building what would eventually be a good seven layers of overlapping kill zones, guard towers and artillery is as good a start as any! [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other Will proc.
--[ ] 1 Action + Apprentice Action
-[ ] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 8 turns.
--[ ] 1 Action
-[ ] Order: Magma Dragon's Blood

Or, we could just complete three projects this turn and call it a job well done.
 
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