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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Once again people seem to be making assumptions about Snerra's apprenticeship. Snorri believes she is ready there is no need to hold her for optimization, or because we have more to teach her, she is at the level of an apprentice who can do their journey trial. The only reason to keep her longer is because it's more traditional, which is what Snorri himself notes.

Since we apparently need obsidian to finish the rune metal I'm fine with waiting on it. I want to research the hearthstones before making the amulet though.

Edit: was confused on the obsidian point all in on metal it is then, at least for me
 
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We had some random obsidian lying around for the first time we got Adamant, I imagine it will be the same, we just can't produce it/the Rune consistently without the material.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Well, keep in mind Overflow isn't guaranteed to produce extra results, at least not beyond a certain point, now.
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Well it always wasn't? That was just a clarification in my mind to how the overflow always worked. Wouldn't make much sense if it didn't have a drop off point at some threshold.

bird yells said:
Is there a particular reason the armour needs to be done by the same time as the current work order? The reason Snorri's working on a deadline rn is that the foreign king needs to present the cloaks and the amulet at a specific time, but the armour's a separate thing that Otrek's buying for himself - it's got nothing at all to do with the wedding. He hasn't even offered the commission to Snorri yet either. What's the harm in finishing the cloak and amulets asap and then delivering the armour a turn or so later?
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Because that's essentially what I'm planning to do anyway. I want to wow Otrek and every other King who goes to the wedding by putting him and the Prince in armor of Adamant for the favor and standing alongside the requests posed to us, particularly with the Brotherhood of Dron if at all possible.

If we want to get the armor done before turn 19, we need to know as soon as possible if Rune Metal Part 4 is what we need. And like the way I want to do these things is do the Dowry next turn, Armor turn after that, then the fourth turn to run around and do other things.

kobo said:
Once again people seem to be making assumptions about Snerra's apprenticeship. Snorri believes she is ready there is no need to hold her for optimization, or because we have more to teach her, she is at the level of an apprentice who can do their journey trial. The only reason to keep her longer is because it's more traditional, which is what Snorri himself notes.

Since we apparently need obsidian to finish the rune metal I'm fine with waiting on it. I want to research the hearthstones before making the amulet though.
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We don't need it to finish the research project though? It's not listed as a requirement. We have a rune and apparently enough Obsidian to experiment.

E: To put it this way, it would be very very... aggravating if there was an ingredient requirement to finish the project when it isn't specified in the project text.
 
BungieONI said:
E: To put it this way, it would be very very... aggravating if there was an ingredient requirement to finish the project when it isn't specified in the project text.
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A lot of research is exploratory. I wont gate you behind a material to complete it yes, but the reward may very well be. Like if you unlock a master rune, which I think is the assumption most people made.
 
If we're drafting up the plans for the big request this turn, and I figure we probably are, I'd like to see some discussion on the runes involved. Bungie's going with themes rather than specifying the arrays on each individual item this time around - are the rest of youse into that as well? Because personally, I'd still like to try for a fear/battle/impact combo or something to that effect for one of the mantles. Could do something involving the master rune of grungni for the other, seeing as there's all this oathgold burning a hole in Snorri's pocket.
 
soulcake said:
A lot of research is exploratory. I wont gate you behind a material to complete it yes, but the reward may very well be. Like if you unlock a master rune, which I think is the assumption most people made.
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And that's fine. Making a Master Rune by virtue of being necessitates ingredients, but as long as we can complete the project I don't have a problem. Getting a reward after ordering a material or finding it is reasonable, since you've shown you'll tell us ahead of time.
 
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BungieONI said:
--[] Theme: The King's Cloak: "A relentless, unstoppable and valiant King." Make the cloak using Dragonhide.
--[] Theme: The Heir's Cloak: "A redoubtable, vital and skilled Heir." Make the cloak using Dragonhide.
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Note that this does not fulfill the stated requirements of the commission. We were asked:

soulcake said:
and as such, I believe it fitting that I contribute to the protection of my future kin. So it is that I am seeking to commission your services in the making of two finely made cloaks, one for father and one for son, to be part of the Bridal Dowry that will accompany the rest of Ungor's wealth.
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This isn't a request for any random thing we dream up, it's specifically a request for protection, to directly defend his future kin from harm.

I would substitute something like:

--[] Theme: Protection from those forms of attack that could bypass the defences of even your hoped for adamant armour.​

There are a variety of insta-kill attacks out there that even strongly magical armour doesn't protect the wearer from. That's why we probably want to look at things like the Rune of Guarding and Rune of Preservation. We also almost certainly want Master Runes on the cloaks, and the Master Rune of Grungni is an obvious one to include on a defensive item. It's also emminently como-able with protective runes, as some of the power it absorbs from the Winds of Magic could be channeled into the other Runes.

BungieONI said:
--[] Kingly Authority: Order [T2] Obsidian.
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It might also be worth trying to order any higher tier variants of obsidean?
 
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I really want to hold snerra back for a few more decades, if only so we can make sure we properly created her a gromil hard foundation and gave her enough time to build up a rep and connections. Remember reputation in dawi society is a good chunk based on age, snerra is going to need a lot of wealth and skill to off set that and to prove to others that her young age is no excuse to not acknowledge her as much as she should be.
 
Alratan said:
Note that this does not fulfill the stated requirements of the commission. We were asked:

​

This isn't a request for any random thing we dream up, it's specifically a request for protection, to directly defend his future kin from harm.

I would substitute something like:

--[] Theme: Protection from those forms of attack that could bypass the defences of even your hoped for adamant armour.​

There are a variety of insta-kill attacks out there that even strongly magical armour doesn't protect the wearer from. That's why we probably want to look at things like the Rune of Guarding and Rune of Preservation. We also almost certainly want Master Runes on the cloaks, and the Master Rune of Grungni is an obvious one to include on a defensive item. It's also emminently como-able with protective runes, as some of the power it absorbs from the Winds of Magic could be channeled into the other Runes.



It might also be worth trying to order any higher tier variants of obsidean?
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The Heir's cloak absolutely fulfills the desire for protection, see the definitions of Redoubtable and Vital. And being relentless and unstoppable means not dying when you get smacked by something big, to not be turned aside by anything. It's fine.

E: Like I get it. You want them to be super guard cloaks, but this is a terrible roundabout argument to use for that. Just state it for heaven's sake.
 
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BungieONI said:
The Heir's cloak absolutely fulfills the desire for protection, see the definitions of Redoubtable and Vital. And being relentless and unstoppable means not dying when you get smacked by something big, to not be turned aside by anything. It's fine.

E: Like I get it. You want them to be super guard cloaks, but this is a terrible roundabout argument to use for that. Just state it for heaven's sake.
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I actually honestly believe that making cloaks designed to attack rather than defend we'd not be fulfilling the intent of the commission.

If I had a free choice I'd probably go for something like Master Rune of Animation, Rune of Might, and Rune of Speed, and try to get an animated cloak that kicked the crap out of enemies itself. That wouldn't meet the requirements though.
 
Alratan said:
I actually honestly believe that making cloaks designed to attack rather than defend we'd not be fulfilling the intent of the commission.

If I had a free choice I'd probably go for something like Master Rune of Animation, Rune of Might, and Rune of Speed, and try to get an animated cloak that kicked the crap out of enemies itself. That wouldn't meet the requirements though.
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I see.

The heir's cloak is definitely a defensive one, there's really no way to cut the idea of being redoubtable, vital and skilled (That's basically what a body guard is in three words) into an attack focused idea. Relentless unstoppability and valiance in battle basically requires the fusion of offense and defense. If you can be easily stopped, then the entire idea falls apart. If I wanted to choose to make my theme, I'd pick a rune combo like Master Rune of Grungni or Valaya and then runes of fortitude or impact or might.

Or Master Rune of Grungni, Rune of Determination, Rune of Speed/Impact.
 
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I believe Torques are a must this turn as the Griffons are the ones keeping the Troll numbers down and we can't really talk with them or control them. We've waited 2 decades, longer is just not good. But, I get people want to do the Rune Metal research. So, why not do both? Do one apprentice and 1 action to fill its 2 action cost- we don't get the Productivity Like No Other proc, but at least it'll be done.

I'd like to keep our apprentice for at least a decade or two more to polish her skills. Hers is a genius so bright that she may be one of our greatest legacies. And making sure she is as good as she can be would benefit our reputation and, more importantly, Dwarvenkind.

Edit: Pointed out I can't use apprentice work for torques.

[] Plan Security and Research
-[] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 0 turns. Apprentices can now be released into the world
-- [] Hold them: She isn't so much unready as she still can learn more. There's an argument to be made about keeping her and packing more knowledge into her little head.. You retain their services, though technically you could hold them here for eternity, it would not look good to do so past their second century. [Cost: Delayed Journeyman Trial]
-[ ] [Simple] Torques A Plenty: Elder Brokk has asked you specifically to create a set of Runic Torques, all meant to facilitate proper communication between what is clearly an avian and a dwarf. You remember Master Yorri told you about the time he bargained a few feathers off a Great Eagle. He never told you how, but you remember being taught a few odd runes in your past, just have to figure out which combination worked for Master Yorri. Maybe his book has something? Worst come to worst you could send a letter to the Dwarf. [Cost: (3-1) =2 Actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. (1 Action, 1 Apprentice Action)
-[ ] The Rune Metal Pt. 4: You've made Adamant, a form of Gromril harder and stronger than any you've ever seen. The metal abhors magic, even that of Runes to some extent, making it difficult to inscribe on the metal itself. You need to find a way to make this in a less explosive fashion, and maybe figure out what exactly its properties are.[Cost: (8 -3) =5 actions] Student of the Odd and Mind for Metal will proc. (3 Actions)
 
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MysteryCPU said:
I believe Torques are a must this turn as the Griffons are the ones keeping the Troll numbers down and we can't really talk with them or control them. We've waited 2 decades, longer is just not good. But, I get people want to do the Rune Metal research. So, why not do both? Do one apprentice and 1 action to fill its 2 action cost- we don't get the Productivity Like No Other proc, but at least it'll be done.
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Can't put her on there. Actions that have 3 action cost stop accepting apprentice actions past 1/3.
 
MysteryCPU said:
I believe Torques are a must this turn as the Griffons are the ones keeping the Troll numbers down and we can't really talk with them or control them. We've waited 2 decades, longer is just not good. But, I get people want to do the Rune Metal research. So, why not do both? Do one apprentice and 1 action to fill its 2 action cost- we don't get the Productivity Like No Other proc, but at least it'll be done.

I'd like to keep our apprentice for at least a decade or two more to polish her skills. Hers is a genius so bright that she may be one of our greatest legacies. And making sure she is as good as she can be would benefit our reputation and, more importantly, Dwarvenkind.

[] Plan Security and Research
-[] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 0 turns. Apprentices can now be released into the world
-- [] Hold them: She isn't so much unready as she still can learn more. There's an argument to be made about keeping her and packing more knowledge into her little head.. You retain their services, though technically you could hold them here for eternity, it would not look good to do so past their second century. [Cost: Delayed Journeyman Trial]
-[ ] [Simple] Torques A Plenty: Elder Brokk has asked you specifically to create a set of Runic Torques, all meant to facilitate proper communication between what is clearly an avian and a dwarf. You remember Master Yorri told you about the time he bargained a few feathers off a Great Eagle. He never told you how, but you remember being taught a few odd runes in your past, just have to figure out which combination worked for Master Yorri. Maybe his book has something? Worst come to worst you could send a letter to the Dwarf. [Cost: (3-1) =2 Actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. (1 Action, 1 Apprentice Action)
-[ ] The Rune Metal Pt. 4: You've made Adamant, a form of Gromril harder and stronger than any you've ever seen. The metal abhors magic, even that of Runes to some extent, making it difficult to inscribe on the metal itself. You need to find a way to make this in a less explosive fashion, and maybe figure out what exactly its properties are.[Cost: (8 -3) =5 actions] Student of the Odd and Mind for Metal will proc. (3 Actions)
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You can't put anymore Apprentice actions on the Torques, we've established that.
 
kobo said:
Once again people seem to be making assumptions about Snerra's apprenticeship. Snorri believes she is ready there is no need to hold her for optimization, or because we have more to teach her, she is at the level of an apprentice who can do their journey trial. The only reason to keep her longer is because it's more traditional, which is what Snorri himself notes.
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This^^ Another reason I just thought up for letting Snerra go as soon as possible now that she is skilled enough is that hopefully her wandering around means that she may get Grungni's attention which we know was a possibility earlier.
 
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Thank you. I missed we did that before.

My belief still stands: we need to do torques this turn. We told a friend we'd help him and then did nothing for 2 decades while the Griffons still are one of our greatest lines of defense. For now.

Meanwhile, the project we just took for the bridal dowry is 4 decades down the line and our own research, while enticing, isn't an obligation we told another dwarf we would take.

We are a Dwarven Runelord: we should keep our word. Pushing off the Torque to 3 decades is not only rude, it is giving our word and then not doing anything on it.

As to Snerra, the description states that there is more information we can impart into her.

soulcake said:
- [ ] Hold them: She isn't so much unready as she still can learn more. There's an argument to be made about keeping her and packing more knowledge into her little head.. You retain their services, though technically you could hold them here for eternity, it would not look good to do so past their second century. [Cost: Delayed Journeyman Trial]
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[X] Plan: I Want What I Want
-[X] Odd Places 3/10: Look on Master Yorri's map and try and discover one of his marked locations. The locations will certainly be odd, but whether they'll be useful will remain to be seen. [Cost: 1 action] Roll for usefulness. 1 Action
-[X] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 0 turns. Apprentices can now be released into the world
--[X] Release them: Your prodigious young niece is of a level of skill, if not age, that she can begin the journeyman's trial. It will be perilous, but considering the state of things right now, it's unlikely she'll leave the immediate area or the hold for a while yet. [Cost: 1 apprentice action permanently] Gain 1 Action
-[X] [Simple] Apprentice work: your not that young, but still young, charges are now of an age you feel it acceptable for them to do a bit of exploration. Send your apprentices out into the hold and pick up a few tasks from whoever offers it to them. Give them a bit of experience for their upcoming task as journeymen and let them build a reputation in the hold. You'll, of course, critique their work and use it as a learning experience as any good master ought to. [Cost: variable apprentice actions.] Roll for usefulness. 1 Roll per apprentice action. 1 Apprentice action.
-[X] [Simple] Torques A Plenty: Elder Brokk has asked you specifically to create a set of Runic Torques, all meant to facilitate proper communication between what is clearly an avian and a dwarf. You remember Master Yorri told you about the time he bargained a few feathers off a Great Eagle. He never told you how, but you remember being taught a few odd runes in your past, just have to figure out which combination worked for Master Yorri. Maybe his book has something? Worst come to worst you could send a letter to the Dwarf. [Cost: (3-1) =2 Actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Actions
-[X] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 1: Two cloaks and an amulet to be ready for the wedding of Prince Durabarr Stonehammer and Princess Orra Ironarm. It A multi-work project [Cost: 1 action] Due in 4 Turns. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Format for multi-item requests at the bottom of the update. 1 Action
--[X] Theme: The King's Cloak: "A relentless, unstoppable and valiant King." Make the cloak using Dragonhide.
--[X] Theme: The Heir's Cloak: "A redoubtable, vital and skilled Heir." Make the cloak using Dragonhide.
--[X] Theme: The Bride's Amulet: "Protect the daughter against all ills." Make the amulet using Pure Gromril, Silver Wutroth and Hearthstones.
-[X]Tier 3 Dragonhide
--[X] Kingly Authority: Expedite
-[X]Tier 2 Obsidian
--[X] Kingly Authority: Order

If we want progress with the Griffons then we can't leave the Torques fallow. That means inefficient Research of Rune Metal, which means that doing the Dowry to figure out what Materials for Runes we want to order is efficient and leaves 1 action free. I put it in Odd Places because I can't think of proper Themes for the other two Rune Works.

We can do Rune Metal next turn while we order more materials for the commission and then do the Dowry Commission two turns from now.
 
godofsmallthings said:
How many years does a Griffon live? It's already been 2 or 3 decades...
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Keep in mind her preferred diet is troll hearts, so at least a few of her mutations have to do with regeneration and toughness. These heartseeker griffons (that's what I'm calling them in my head) may very well live to a VERY old age compared to their normal kin.

[X] Plan: I Want What I Want
 
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