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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Cheap Orange Knofe said:
So banner it is?
Or do we invite him to help build the Library ?(and name a wing after him.)
Or do we host a Burudin approved event to formally recognize the achivements of the northern Rhunrikki? And thus ensure that we don't get ignored by the south and thus change the frame of our relationship from one-sided rivalry to fellow runelord who shall not be ignored by the rest of the Karaz Ankor.
Or do we just publicly do what you said in the next runelord meet up?
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Vragni falls under a phrase I rather like; "Not our circus, not our problem."

Vragni has done nothing. Nothing to deserve our attention or ire; he has stated he doesn't like us and has passed his opinions on to his apprentices. He has not brought direct grievance or Grudge against Snorri and our position is secure from him twisting opinion due to the amount of respect we have across the Far North, and from the respect we will garner in this campaign.

So we can continue as we have been, doing nothing at all, and it will be fine.
 
BungieONI said:
Vragni falls under a phrase I rather like; "Not our circus, not our problem."

Vragni has done nothing. Nothing to deserve our attention or ire; he has stated he doesn't like us and has passed his opinions on to his apprentices. He has not brought direct grievance or Grudge against Snorri and our position is secure from him twisting opinion due to the amount of respect we have across the Far North, and from the respect we will garner in this campaign.

So we can continue as we have been, doing nothing at all, and it will be fine.
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So basically the most interaction we will probably have with him is saving him and his apprentices from the enemy during this campaign. And unless he actively starts shit, then we'll just passively let him do his thing out of sight, out of mind.


The Karaz Ankor at large does seem to share his opinion though. I'd rather not give them a foothold in the north in the form of an out right antagonistic conservative runelord.... But considering his own radical approach to getting around the Rule of Pride, they might not pick him either.
I guess the best we can do is keep giving gifts and allowing all those we've influenced to form a protective armor against the more outright political attacks we're bound to receive since we joined the Burudin.... oh no.

Oh boy. If we thought Vragni was bad, this organization might be worse as it is composed of the most conservative orthodox Dawi who probably have a couple of hundred years over us.
Alright. I'll stop worrying about Vragni Silverbeard. We'll have other things to plan for.
 
...The man isn't getting around the Rule of Pride, he's going directly for the intended result of the Rule of Pride:

Not getting bogged down in a few Runes that are used and instead having a massive breadth.

He's not "radical", he's a perfectly bog standard Conservative to the Dawi with perfectly bog standard Conservative methods. He just makes a lot, and presumably has, compared to Snorri, far more runes on offer. And likely a deeper understanding, given Snorri honestly isn't that focused on Runes so much as Runic Material and how to fart about with it. Useful, good, perfectly viable, don't get me wrong, but opportunity cost exists.

Treating him as a problem when his method is perfectly viable and reasonable is silly.
 
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
So basically the most interaction we will probably have with him is saving him and his apprentices from the enemy during this campaign. And unless he actively starts shit, then we'll just passively let him do his thing out of sight, out of mind.


The Karaz Ankor at large does seem to share his opinion though. I'd rather not give them a foothold in the north in the form of an out right antagonistic conservative runelord.... But considering his own radical approach to getting around the Rule of Pride, they might not pick him either.
I guess the best we can do is keep giving gifts and allowing all those we've influenced to form a protective armor against the more outright political attacks we're bound to receive since we joined the Burudin.... oh no.

Oh boy. If we thought Vragni was bad, this organization might be worse as it is composed of the most conservative orthodox Dawi who probably have a couple of hundred years over us.
Alright. I'll stop worrying about Vragni Silverbeard. We'll have other things to plan for.
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The Karaz Ankor and Burudin are also not monolithic entities. Among other things Snorri is as respected as you can get among both Radical *and* Conservative Runesmiths as a baseline. The popular opinion is basically "weird as shit, probably mad, but good at what he does and his craft and deeds are worthy of immense respect".

The idea that the Burudin is composed of the most conservative orthodox Dawi is a currently unfounded assumption. Yorri even pointed out that there are significant differences of opinion between the members of the Burudin, with some who supported the nomination and some who don't. In terms of Runelords from the Wider Realm, Orri Okrisson of Karak Ungor is a Conservative-Moderate who respects Snorri. The baseline standing bears out; the people that Snorri talks to respect him.

If individuals in the Burudin bring disagreements to Snorri then the best thing to do is address those disagreements in the context which they have come from.
 
(Master) Rune of the Traitor's Bane: In this world, there is nothing so bleak, so vile, as a traitor. And there is no traitor worse than mortal flesh that dallies with the Dum. The armor bearing this rune makes its wearer more enduring and more vicious against the mortal servants of Chaos, who had the choice, and chose...poorly. Their blows are aimed expertly, and strongly, gliding through evil flesh as though rebuking the Sorcery of the Enemy; and in return the attacks that seek to slay them skitter off mail, bounce off of plate, and do not even scuff helmets, horned and mighty. There is both a Master and Regular Rune variant, both performing the same functions but to different strengths.

Dragon Ogre, Fimir, and Dragon alike must pay in a way even the Daemons must not for their treachery; for a daemon, at least, cannot even make the choice. But they could, and they chose wrongly.
Pretty self-explanatory. Figure if it shows up in Warriors of Chaos this would work on it, as a good baseline.
 
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
We haven't been told off by THE Ancestors.
Not Grimnir, Not Gazul, Not Smednir, Not Valaya, Not Thungni himself! Not even with the chainforger!(which admittedly doesn't make runes)

He needs to let it die. It's just a preference at this point. Plus the difference is that we're basically mass-producing apprentice runes, he's mass-producing using Apprentices!
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He knows its a preference. Thats why he's not done anything. And he's not going to try because he knows the Runelords would back up that Snorri isn't doing anything to him and he has no right to force others to follow his preference.

He's trying to get something of an alliance of conservatives together to show that they disapprove of Snorris way, but thats nothing except creating a grumbling club.
 
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Voikirium said:
(Master) Rune of the Traitor's Bane: In this world, there is nothing so bleak, so vile, as a traitor. And there is no traitor worse than mortal flesh that dallies with the Dum. The armor bearing this rune makes its wearer more enduring and more vicious against the mortal servants of Chaos, who had the choice, and chose...poorly. Their blows are aimed expertly, and strongly, gliding through evil flesh as though rebuking the Sorcery of the Enemy; and in return the attacks that seek to slay them skitter off mail, bounce off of plate, and do not even scuff helmets, horned and mighty. There is both a Master and Regular Rune variant, both performing the same functions but to different strengths.

Dragon Ogre, Fimir, and Dragon alike must pay in a way even the Daemons must not for their treachery; for a daemon, at least, cannot even make the choice. But they could, and they chose wrongly.
Pretty self-explanatory. Figure if it shows up in Warriors of Chaos this would work on it, as a good baseline.
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Tirelessness against the mortal servants of Chaos, plus damage/viciousness increase to mortal servants of Chaos, and resistance to their damage. Very nice rune and quite clever.
 
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Dark as Silver said:
He's trying to get something of an alliance of conservatives together to show that they disapprove of Snorris way, but thats nothing except creating a grumbling club.
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In my view, this kind of inter-doctrinal rivalry (so long as it doesn't descend into sabotage or violence) is acceptable, even admirable. Steel sharpens steel, gromril sharpens gromril, Adamant sharpens Adamant. See for example how Vragni's self-declared rivalry to Snorri has resulted in productive endeavour and Runic innovation on par with Snorri's, via a different route.

Heck, if Snorri could inspire more and more Conservative Runelords to strive to outshine Snorri to prove the superiority of Conservative Runesmithing, that could be the best thing that Snorri does for Dawi-kind.
 
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Vragni's dislike of Snorri is not because of the Conservative/radical divide.
There are probably plenty of conservatives that like Snorri (given the 10/10 standing) despite professional disagreement.
They just don't take the disagreement personally.
Unlike Vragni.
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Case in point, Ogra. She outright said she doesn't agree with Snorri's methods, but wants to start correspondence.
She also trusts his judgement when it comes to the waystones, which given she knows how important they are is really saying something.
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That meeting we have with her is going to be something. Dancing around each other trying to guess what the other knows, before seeing if they can reveal their hand
 
Catpetter1981 said:
In my view, this kind of inter-doctrinal rivalry (so long as it doesn't descend into sabotage or violence) is acceptable, even admirable. Steel sharpens steel, gromril sharpens gromril, Adamant sharpens Adamant. See for example how Vragni's self-declared rivalry to Snorri has resulted in productive endeavour and Runic innovation on par with Snorri's, via a different route.
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In some sense, part of the intended use of Khazagar is to give a space to such disputes. A space where rival runesmiths can duke it out with debate and some light fisticuffs.

IronFist said:
Case in point, Ogra. She outright said she doesn't agree with Snorri's methods, but wants to start correspondence.
She also trusts his judgement when it comes to the waystones, which given she knows how important they are is really saying something.
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That meeting we have with her is going to be something
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God I am really excited to talk to her honestly, her knowledge of the Ancestor runes will be very interesting. And it seems quite possible she knows more about the Waystones than Snorri.

Personally, one of the ideas I've been kicking around and might have mentioned in here (can't remember honestly), is specifically building a strong backbone of communication among Far Northern Runelords who know about the Waystones. At least one in each Sector; Snorri in the East, Ogra in the Center, and someone trustworthy in the Western sector. This is a task I honestly think would benefit from having help and collaboration on.
 
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A traditionaly dawi way to settle disputes between kings is to tie eachoters by the beard wearing only pants for decency and then beat eachoter with specialy made two handed hammers,the first to yield or faint loses the argument.
Killing the opponent is rare and seens as uncool but non impossible (strangely it is also not illegal).
Khazagar should probably have a wrestling ring.
 
Franksson said:
A traditionaly dawi way to settle disputes between kings is to tie eachoters by the beard wearing only pants for decency and then beat eachoter with specialy made two handed hammers,the first to yield or faint loses the argument.
Killing the opponent is rare and seens as uncool but non impossible (strangely it is also not illegal).
Khazagar should probably have a wrestling ring.
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Go all Greek on this and have a wrestling ring for our magic philosophers to grapple and wrestle each other.
 
I was just reading the "parachute" conversation between Dolgi and his kid.
And I was wondering if designing a Gyrocopter with a few featherlight runes on it would allow it to be carried by Brana or griffon?
And then would the team's range be extended by the Brana gliding with the gyrocopter strapped top it?
Would a Brana even allow itself a gyro backpack?... this line of thinking quickly ran into the problem that there are no gyrocopters as of right now.

But since the engineers who are interesting in making things fly will be studying the Brana for inspiration for their flying ambitions,we might see different aircraft aside from airships and helicopters. More planes and gliders.


BungieONI said:
Go all Greek on this and have a wrestling ring for our magic philosophers to grapple and wrestle each other.
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And then some elves decided to join in on the fun. Though it was considered brutish by society at large. People were bored and this was fun and exciting!
 
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
I was just reading the "parachute" conversation between Dolgi and his kid.
And I was wondering if designing a Gyrocopter with a few featherlight runes on it would allow it to be carried by Brana or griffon?
And then would the team's range be extended by the Brana gliding with the gyrocopter strapped top it?
Would a Brana even allow itself a gyro backpack?... this line of thinking quickly ran into the problem that there are no gyrocopters as of right now.

But since the engineers who are interesting in making things fly will be studying the Brana for inspiration for their flying ambitions,we might see different aircraft aside from airships and helicopters. More planes and gliders.
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An innovation towards Ornithopters, aircraft whose wings move like a bird's in order to provide lift, with the assistance of Featherlight runes would be fascinating.
 
BungieONI said:
An innovation towards Ornithopters, aircraft whose wings move like a bird's in order to provide lift, with the assistance of Featherlight runes would be fascinating.
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I wouldn't be surprised if they did, but wouldn't they lean toward fixed wing aircraft more?
Dawi are innovative, but that sounds rather uncharacteristic for the engineering guild.. but now you've got me thinking of Orni/Branagronti with altered runes of forged eye connected to a receiver/projector rune because drones and cctv.

So close..... yet so far.
 
IronFist said:
Well, considering that they have winged allies this time around, and winged flight is possible in warhammer, i could see them going for it instead
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That's why I'm asking why they wouldn't go for fixed wing aircraft first especially since we know they're cannonically going to develop gyrocopters?
The added complexity of flapping wings vs a propeller+wings for thrust and lift seems a bit too uncharacteristic for the race who thought the trebuchet had too many moving parts vs the good old catapult/grudge thrower.
 
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
That's why I'm asking why they wouldn't go for fixed wing aircraft first especially since we know they're cannonically going to develop gyrocopters?
The added complexity of flapping wings vs a propeller+wings for thrust and lift seems a bit too uncharacteristic for the race who thought the trebuchet had too many moving parts vs the good old catapult/grudge thrower.
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Fixed wing flight requires engines, while ornithopters can be muscle powered.
Morgrim's book probably contains engines, at least.
Gyrocopters, too maybe.
If we make Morgrim another da Vinci level innovator.
Da Vinci designed a tank, an ornithopter and a helicopter. So maybe?
 
IronFist said:
Fixed wing flight requires engines, while ornithopters can be muscle powered.
Morgrim's book probably contains engines, at least.
Gyrocopters, too maybe.
If we make Morgrim another da Vinci level innovator.
Da Vinci designed a tank, an ornithopter and a helicopter. So maybe?
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If Morgrims book contained Gyrocopters they would not be a semi controversial invention let alone by the canon period
 
I'd think of it as....fixed wing aircraft are a New Untested Idea.
Birds are a well proven idea, if difficult to make with the material properties of metal.
Lighter-than-air craft are an extension of bouyancy, so its a variation on a somewhat explored idea.

So dwarves would try to imitate birds first before trying lighter than air craft if it really proves impossible within their material limitations.
Fixed wing craft almost certainly would need to be a tech import or a Radical idea.
 
More importantly, runesmiths tend not to put runes on experimental machinery, it took grudgebearer years to convince the runesmiths to put runes on flamecannons and organ guns, he never managed to convice them to put Runes on a gyro.
Snorry migth because he is quite odd, most would not do it, and I am not certain on Snorry eiter.
 
Franksson said:
More importantly, runesmiths tend not to put runes on experimental machinery,
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This is not so strictly adhered to in the golden age.
Dolgi definitely put runes on the parachute he invented for his son.
The artillery Sven Hogrisson so loves is probably not just "really big" but also the cutting edge stuff the engineers developed.

We'll see how long until the Bountiful Valaya gets runes on her :V
 
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IronFist said:
Did Morgrim make his book in canon?
I thought it was soulcake's creation.
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Why wouldn't he have?
At least within the logic of the quest where the Book of Defense (probably nothing to do with engineering except where it intersects with Fortification anyway) why would this be any different. At most it would be lost knowledge and Steam power is explicitly a Silver age invention within canon canon.
 
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