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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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I've gone back a few chapters.... Where was Vragni rebuffed? Was it before Snorri met him?

Hmmm.... I'm starting to suspect that it might be related to our wife or something. He's angry at us for a reason.
His statement was "runelords show a united front against Snorri"
But Brynna sat next to Snorri, and Sven raised his drinking horn to greet him the moment he sat down.
---
And he's angry at us because Snorri pushes all his buttons with his actions, but he can't do anything about it other than stew.
Deep philosophical disagreement, rather than anything personal.
 
Hmmm.... I'm starting to suspect that it might be related to our wife or something. He's angry at us for a reason. He's hiding behind competitiveness but even his students have picked up on the outright dislike almost hate that radiates from him.
Imagine for a moment that you pride yourself on your productivity, you achieved this despite working against an extremely difficult set of strictures that everything must be unique. In order to work around this you research new techniques, develop new knowledge, plumb the depths of what is possible and teach widely. It is incredibly difficult however you've achieved it regardless.

In the next city over is someone who is much more famous and well respected for productivity. How did he do this? By not sticking to his religious duties and just making duplicate items. By infringing on other Runesmiths freedom to interpret their duties by showing up at their door with a list of stuff that they're going to make as part of his push to finish the Underway ahead of schedule.

This is Vragni and Snorri. He sees us as essentially a cheater he's competing with and one who gets more respect despite the fact that everyone knows Snorri cheats.
 
Honestly the only trouble Vragni brings is
A: working directly alongside him will be troublesome, it's why we chose not to join the vanguard this fight, and
B: all his apprentices hate us too which may be an issue in a few centuries when they start being remotely relevant as individuals. Outside of that he's kinda just irrelevant and a lot of it is getting blown out of proportion.
 
i just had this sudden urge to commission a 40k artwork of imotekh the stormlord, snorri edition, short squat, heavily armored, and in the middle of a lightning hurricane
 
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Considering the previous war update, I think we need not worry too much bout the apprentices.
1) The only apprentice of Vragni that has been more directly exposed to us (Tarni, Karstah's friend) does not dislike Snorri. So that ingrained dislike can be reduced.
2) Avoiding Khazagar's facilities because it's Snorri's project will be a nasty handicap to take as an apprentice/journeyman. The resources they would be ignoring for the sake of propagating their master's one sided feud are quite significant.
 
I've gone back a few chapters.... Where was Vragni rebuffed? Was it before Snorri met him?
When Sven and Brynna walked into the Tent after the initial confrontation between Snorri and Brynna, during this campaign.

Vragni really really isn't a problem. I respect his opinion and attempt to achieve productivity rivaling ours through conservative means, its interesting to see. He doesn't like Snorri, and my response to that is so what. He is not our enemy, no matter how much he's been antagonistically wiggled in front of us like a shiny red light.

We don't need to solve his anger issues, and we also can't because any actions on our part to do so are going to be rebuffed, because he is a Dwarf and has made his opinion very clear. My take is to leave an open invitation to anyone of Master rank to come to Khazagar and he or his apprentices can come in and talk. We can undercut him through making things inclusive, as we have been. Way simpler and also indirect enough to not need a bunch of our own time wrestling with stubborn Dwarves.
 
basically offer an open hand with gifts as snorri always have, always offering but never forcing. they cannot blame snorri for being generous nor can they blame people for accepting the gifts, for that is what they are, gifts. it would be a different matter if snorri was forcing it on people or using his gifts as bribes. the whole college idea is just that, an offering of prepared space to use, no one will be forced to come.
 
Imagine for a moment that you pride yourself on your productivity, you achieved this despite working against an extremely difficult set of strictures that everything must be unique. In order to work around this you research new techniques, develop new knowledge, plumb the depths of what is possible and teach widely. It is incredibly difficult however you've achieved it regardless.

In the next city over is someone who is much more famous and well respected for productivity. How did he do this? By not sticking to his religious duties and just making duplicate items. By infringing on other Runesmiths freedom to interpret their duties by showing up at their door with a list of stuff that they're going to make as part of his push to finish the Underway ahead of schedule.

This is Vragni and Snorri. He sees us as essentially a cheater he's competing with and one who gets more respect despite the fact that everyone knows Snorri cheats.
We haven't been told off by THE Ancestors.
Not Grimnir, Not Gazul, Not Smednir, Not Valaya, Not Thungni himself! Not even with the chainforger!(which admittedly doesn't make runes)

He needs to let it die. It's just a preference at this point. Plus the difference is that we're basically mass-producing apprentice runes, he's mass-producing using Apprentices!

basically offer an open hand with gifts as snorri always have, always offering but never forcing. they cannot blame snorri for being generous nor can they blame people for accepting the gifts, for that is what they are, gifts. it would be a different matter if snorri was forcing it on people or using his gifts as bribes. the whole college idea is just that, an offering of prepared space to use, no one will be forced to come.
What sort of gifts do you have in mind?
I doubt he'd appreciate runecraft unless it was legendary work.
 
We haven't been told off by THE Ancestors.
Not Grimnir, Not Gazul, Not Smednir, Not Valaya, Not Thungni himself! Not even with the chainforger!(which admittedly doesn't make runes)

He needs to let it die. It's just a preference at this point. Plus the difference is that we're basically mass-producing apprentice runes, he's mass-producing using Apprentices!


What sort of gifts do you have in mind?
I doubt he'd appreciate runecraft unless it was legendary work.
not actual gifts, but like the situation with the chainforger and thugni ruling on it, knowledge given freely, it is your choice whether or not to accept it.
 
not actual gifts, but like the situation with the chainforger and thugni ruling on it, knowledge given freely, it is your choice whether or not to accept it.
this is the exact opposite of what I said but... I find myself interested in how to kit out Vragni now assuming we get him some sort of actual runic gift.... And this happened.
Obviously only one gift would be given.

Banner: One and all
Commemorating his multitude of triumphs and achievements through his Apprentices.

This speaks not to the the throng but to his own apprentices, this allows him to direct their actions and share his thoughts with runesmiths on the battlefield.
Allowing him to communicate,sort information, and better coordinate the micromanaging battle style he has so perfected. Negating the confusion of battle and allowing his allied Runelords and apprentices to more efficiently implement his custom solutions to the problems of the battlefield.

Range: 1500 meters.

Thanks to this gift, never again did Vragni suffer being overwhelmed in a battle. Through his brilliant use of his vast library of tunes, he turned away every threat and trap. Soon not even the mightiest spells would stand the coordinated barriers and dispels that this versatility gave him and his throng of students.

Even back home. The banner proved it's worth as it allowed Vragni to find and assist and instruct his apprentices more easily.

Though his personal dislike of Snorri never truly dissipated, he kept it to himself from then on and instead developed a healthy rivalry instead
.



Anvil: Terminus
Lesser: Terminal
A master Anvil connected to a system of apprentice anvils around his workshop and beyond allowing him to monitor the productivity and quality of his student's works. Here and abroad. The student return's the anvil to the master after their apprenticeship to be used by the next batch.

The anvils provided useful readings and monitored temperature and metal flexibility, purity and structure as well as the magic levels of the runes on them.

Given by Snorri to his younger contemporary Vragni Silverbeard, this system of anvils doubled his workshops efficiency and his quality was never better.

Once news spread the guilds of smiths and smelters commissioned similar anvils for their use.

Eventually through this straightforward and thoughtful gift, Vragni let go of his fixation on master Snorri and even crafted him an amulet to symbolize his apology and to let bygones be bygones.




The amulet cured sores and minor illnesses both of mind and body. It could even be used to promote proper healing to the injured.

Rings: Teacher Three
Lesser: Ring of Bonds.

A set of three rings. A portion of skill is granted. The linked nature of the rings allow sharing subconscious skill and feelings of the wearers to help when crafting runes they know or while coordinating on a project.

The original rings were given as gift from the Giftgiver himself to one of his younger contemporaries with the words "You are training too many. Stick to two or three at a time at most."

Insulted. the younger rune lord never used these but instead had them copied by his Apprentices on their graduation to be used by them to train their own students however due to the skill involved they could only manage 2 at most.

Eventually some unnamed apprentice started making these paired rings en masse.
Where upon they were used by lovers, twins, BFFs and other partners to deepen their connection and intimacy with each other.


Ironically the sympathetic nature of these rings are considered quite Odd. ;)
 
Honestly, Vragni stewing on his anger for as long as possible might be good for him. There's one Runelord who just won't die until he surpasses Snorri Gift-Giver, and by Grungi that's going to be a high bar to pass.
 
We haven't been told off by THE Ancestors.
Not Grimnir, Not Gazul, Not Smednir, Not Valaya, Not Thungni himself! Not even with the chainforger!(which admittedly doesn't make runes)

He needs to let it die. It's just a preference at this point. Plus the difference is that we're basically mass-producing apprentice runes, he's mass-producing using Apprentices!

He hasn't either, no one gets told off directly by the Ancestors.
Has Vragni really even done anything at this point to deserve our ire?

Like he asked two other Runelords to back him in a political meeting once. But asking them to back him keeping his position as Runelord of the Vanguard isn't actually problematic. We gave him that position anyway.

His students who he raised for most of their lives have picked up he doesn't like us? Our students have picked up just as much of Snorri's opinions, many of them are proud of it.

He called us a few names?

Our rivalry with Vragni is so low key that many people close to Snorri have never even heard of it or realised it exists. Like most of his actual actions that we have dealt with include things such as.
  • Held the line as most active Runelord in the Fimir war while we were injured
  • Helped defend his own hold during the Chaos Incursion
  • Helped reclaim lost dwarfholds after the incursion
  • Is responsible for large parts of the Runic equipment held by the Northern Holds

Right now his main actions are to help hold together a significant part of our army in the face of the Fimir.
His issues with us are not getting in the way of anything as he continues being a dwarven hero in good standing with the Karaz Ankor.
 
Giving runecraft to Vragni would be less of a gift and more of a flex, in my opinion. What he wants is acknowledgment of his philosophy and contributions.
 
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Giving runecraft to Vragni would be less of a gift and more of a flex, in my opinion. What he wants is acknowledgment of his philosophy and contributions.
So banner it is?
Or do we invite him to help build the Library ?(and name a wing after him.)
Or do we host a Burudin approved event to formally recognize the achivements of the northern Rhunrikki? And thus ensure that we don't get ignored by the south and thus change the frame of our relationship from one-sided rivalry to fellow runelord who shall not be ignored by the rest of the Karaz Ankor.
Or do we just publicly do what you said in the next runelord meet up?
Umm, is wasn't Grugni who did that it was Grimnir.
You're both wrong!
Meme: IT WAS ME.. KONO DIO DA! - All Templates - Meme-arsenal.com

We have a stand now.
 
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The only way we are giving runecraft to Vragni is through a rune trade.
Which he is very unlikely to accept in the first place.
Or runes which we teach at Khazagar, through his apprentices. (he's not going to learn directly from us)
 
Giving runecraft to Vragni would be less of a gift and more of a flex, in my opinion. What he wants is acknowledgment of his philosophy and contributions.
So banner it is?
Or do we invite him to help build the Library ?(and name a wing after him.)
Or do we host a Burudin approved event to formally recognize the achivements of the northern Rhunrikki? And thus ensure that we don't get ignored by the south and thus change the frame of our relationship from one-sided rivalry to fellow
 
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