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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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I would onto our apprentices for 2 more turns, then consider letting them go after that. Two turns would substantially polish them more under teachings as well as indirectly protect them a bit more.

I definitely feel we should forge each of them something useful for their talents. Dont know what, but it fits in too well for our gift giving tendencies.
It's already been spelled out that us forging them something for their Journey's misses the point of the Journeyman phase and is actually rather insulting.
 
I quite like the idea of power tools. Drills with the Rune of Animation, Rune of Cleaving, and Rune of Impact.
Not sure if that is actually better then normal rune pickaxes. They already hit with great force and dwarfs don't really get tired. Don't really see how the rune of animation helps more then a rune of might or fortitude.
 
… I want it.

Is their a Rune of Beast taming? If not can we invent it? Just imagine having this pull our sleigh...

… We will name you feathers.

Seconded. Every moment that passes without being able to give headscritches to the majestic catbird is waking agony.

Just imagine how many new and exciting methods of apprentice bullying Snorri could cook up with a pet like that! He could set it to guard the materials closet and make the kids sneak past it to fetch the quicksilver, have them muck out the griffon stables, take them out on surprise flying drills in the middle of the night... the possibilities are endless.
 
So after we release our first two apprentices, do we have 1 or 2 apprentice actions left? I think its two since we have base three right now which would go down to two and the action cost for Snerra should be covered by the base cost for our apprentices but I'd like to be sure.

Also, while it would be a waste, it would be really interesting to see what happens if we feed the griffin the Greedy One's heart.
 
and we will one day make him ours!
-Nods sagely-
It's body parts would probably give us some very impressive runic reagents.
We have no means to do this unfortunately, besides maybe the Rune of Fortitude and that's a stretch. As cool as it might be, and it would take up valuable Rune space too.
Biggest 'cheat' we're probably going to be able to do is make a golem with the Heart and runes to make it as durable as possible. Then we add armor/attached weapons to the thing to get around the three rune limitation. Sure, expensive as heck but if we can give it magical protection/anti-daemon capabilities it's worth it.
 
I would onto our apprentices for 2 more turns, then consider letting them go after that. Two turns would substantially polish them more under teachings as well as indirectly protect them a bit more.

I definitely feel we should forge each of them something useful for their talents. Dont know what, but it fits in too well for our gift giving tendencies.
Really insulting. First paragraph implies that they are idiots that have to be babied and the second says that they can't even make their own equipment.
 
So after we release our first two apprentices, do we have 1 or 2 apprentice actions left? I think its two since we have base three right now which would go down to two and the action cost for Snerra should be covered by the base cost for our apprentices but I'd like to be sure.

Also, while it would be a waste, it would be really interesting to see what happens if we feed the griffin the Greedy One's heart.
Oh no thats my B. Snerra's good but she isn't giving you two apprentice actions on her own LUL.
 
Not sure if that is actually better then normal rune pickaxes. They already hit with great force and dwarfs don't really get tired. Don't really see how the rune of animation helps more then a rune of might or fortitude.

Dwarves can get tired. That's why Strollaz's Rune will one day get invented. The rune of impact was invented for drilling rigs, after all, so drills presumably have an advantage over regular runic picks.

Also, with this combination of runes we could make giant drills that no dwarf could wield or turn. 'Your drill is the drill that will pierce the heavens earth', etc.
 
Biggest 'cheat' we're probably going to be able to do is make a golem with the Heart and runes to make it as durable as possible. Then we add armor/attached weapons to the thing to get around the three rune limitation. Sure, expensive as heck but if we can give it magical protection/anti-daemon capabilities it's worth it.
This is why in my initial proposal for a giant golem I used the Master Rune of Awakening, Rune of Might and Rune of Fortitude and make it out of heart of the mountain rock and plate it in adamant.

Yep! As Eva mentioned I formulated the proposal concretely though looking back it looks like others were postulating the idea before me. Here's the quote where I formulate it.



Basically, a Golem has a decent amount of support just from our surface level estimation based on these factors: We know that the Master Rune of Awakening requires a Troll Heart for its use, so natively the Greedy Heart as a Troll Heart should have a lot of power with a Master Rune of Awakening. Additionally Snorri outright says in the research option that he thinks he can make really good Runes of Healing and Runes of Fortitude with the Greedy Heart, which makes sense due to its impossible vitality of still beating after being removed from its mortal body and its incredible regenerative properties.

The idea behind this proposal which got labeled Ymir, is outlined in the quote but basically boils down to these thoughts: Trolls are Mighty creatures with great Fortitude and the Master Rune of Awakening requires a Troll Heart. So the hope is that by using a combo of the Master Rune of Awakening, Rune of Might and Rune of Fortitude to create a very powerful synergy on the T5 Golem.

The catch of doing a T5 with the Heart in my mind is that there's legwork we have to do to really support it properly, namely projects are going to have individualized research requirements and T4 and T3 ingredients like Adamant and Silver Wutroth will likely be necessary as supporting ingredients for the Heart as a core. There's quite a few projects like, a super healing banner to give the whole Hold a healing effect like Trolls which I'm particularly fond of though I can't remember who came up with that one, or some kind of perpetual engine for the Hold's industry as @bird yells proposed.

  • The universal bit of leg work we have to do is studying the heart itself, for any project using it. We can't use it in a project until we do that.

For the Golem, there's a couple of steps that would need to be taken before we could create it according to my proposal:

  • Since I want to plate it in Adamant we need to be able to produce Adamant reliably. That means finishing Rune Metal part 4 at least, if part 4 gives reliable Adamant manufacture, which seems likely.

  • We'd also need to study the Movement of Things research. That should help with understanding and improving upon Golems in general, ala Rune Metal is my hope.

That's the research stuff and we're only almost to the Rune Metal requirement after 90 years since we got the heart.
  • Then we have to make infrastructure to support making that amount of Adamant/Make enough Adamant to plate a big ass Golem, probably Ogre or bigger in dimensions. Big enough to comfortably use as a mount for Snorri. This might be mixed with completing Rune Metal part 4, but I'm going to assume no.

  • Then we have to get whatever supporting ingredients we think we need. Troll parts are effectively infinite considering where we live, plus Pure Gromril. There might be others, but those are the main ones.

  • Then we have to make the Golem itself, which we know is 4 actions. One to take up part one of the request, 3 to actually do part 2. Then because we know how we can put equipment on it, that means a further 2 actions for each piece of equipment we want for it, more Adamant and more ingredients. Going upwards of 8 actions is eminently possible just building the golem and its stuff.

Personally I expect us to take centuries to even get to a point where we've finished the researches and set up and at least another half century to build the bloody thing and its equipment.
 
They already have? That happened like last turn.

that was an underway action
[ ] [Simple] Apprentice work: your not that young, but still young, charges are now of an age you feel it acceptable for them to do a bit of exploration. Send your apprentices out into the hold and pick up a few tasks from whoever offers it to them. Give them a bit of experience for their upcoming task as journeymen and let them build a reputation in the hold. You'll of course critique their work and use it as a learning experience as any good master ought to. [Cost: variable apprentice actions.] Roll for usefulness. 1 Roll per apprentice action.
I am talking about these
 
Really insulting. First paragraph implies that they are idiots that have to be babied and the second says that they can't even make their own equipment.
Ah, so extra paranoia during times getting this bad is apparently unwarranted. How foolish of me to think otherwise.

Well, every time ive said anything in this thread my ideas have been belittled and I've all but been called a moron. Guess I'll just shut up and watch this amazing story without talking, then.
 
How about this?


or this

Or perhaps this?

Surprising amount.


One more for the road

Just kidding, last one

And save to the Griffon pictures folder! Thank you so much!
Seconded. Every moment that passes without being able to give headscritches to the majestic catbird is waking agony.

Just imagine how many new and exciting methods of apprentice bullying Snorri could cook up with a pet like that! He could set it to guard the materials closet and make the kids sneak past it to fetch the quicksilver, have them muck out the griffon stables, take them out on surprise flying drills in the middle of the night... the possibilities are endless.
I see you are a man of culture as well! If I could get him now I would, just imagine getting to show off our new catbird to Grimnir in battle! if only we had the time!
-Nods sagely-
It's body parts would probably give us some very impressive runic reagents.

Biggest 'cheat' we're probably going to be able to do is make a golem with the Heart and runes to make it as durable as possible. Then we add armor/attached weapons to the thing to get around the three rune limitation. Sure, expensive as heck but if we can give it magical protection/anti-daemon capabilities it's worth it.
As long as you mean non-lethal one like his feathers yes. If we are suing his brain It better be to forge a legendary tier weapon to avenge the grudge we have for his killer!

Also I would like to compliment you on the Skandranon idea even if it is not my preferred name. Any Mercedes Lackey reference is always a close second for me.
 
I remember the shield that was used in battle to ward off the magical metal rain.

🧐

I say we use the heart in a shield rune for the whole of Karak Drak !!! If that is possible?
 
@soulcake Will we have to devote separate actions to understanding our mystery Void rune, or will that understanding come naturally once we work out Part 4 of our not!Glimril chain?
 
....
We need to save it for when we can make *Pure* Gromil, instead of just Adamant, and make the heart the center of whatever forge structure we build to purify it.
 
Worst comes to worst it's probably an Apex Grigfon meaning its parts would be T5. And since it's not Chaos we could harvest it all rather than just hoping for one non corrupted chunk.

But I would far rather make it a pet slash battle buddy.
 
So.... if it continues to not attack dwarfs... definitely interested in having some kind of alliance or the like with that griffon. Though, if that ends up not happening, that'll probably be a hell of a powerful griffon brain when it finally does die.
 
Also I would like to compliment you on the Skandranon idea even if it is not my preferred name. Any Mercedes Lackey reference is always a close second for me.
Giant black griffon that can use magic of a sort. Seemed like a gimme.

Of course the real question is whether this griffon will continue to leave dwarfs alone the more it 'evolves' as it continues to eat Greedy hearts. Because it wanted the silver amulet but backed off (to take some gold form the troll). That is 100% non-natural behavior for the species as they don't care about silver, gold etc so it had to have come from eating the hearts. This time it's common sense outweighed it's greed, but will that change over time?
 
You know, thinking some more about the Golem, I wonder if it would possible count as a Warmachine, as if so, the Master Rune of Disguise could be hilarious, for Surprise!Golem. Even better if it's actually a golem-mech big enough to carry a bolt thrower as a side arm.

If only Snorri could communicate to the griffon that he, too, loves bling and troll murder.... it would be a bromance of the ages.....

Yet more nerfed Rune of Brotherhood disappointments await.
 
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