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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Carcer said:
I have a question if someone will answer it.
Will sharing our discoveries on runic reagents be as problematic as trading runes as we have already done?
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I don't think there's any official word on this topic we could point you to, but realistically speaking, I wouldn't expect reagent research to be any more sensitive than other kinds of rune research. The bros shared knowledge internally regarding voidstone as part of Snorri's initial membership deal and that does not appear to have been controversial. So it's probably perfectly fine for Snorri to share his mat-sci stuff with current and former apprentices or show it off to Master Yorri or report it to the bros or barter it away during a rune trade with another smith. He'd only get in trouble if he did something more radical with the knowledge, like handing it out to lots and lots of people in an uncontrolled fashion or whatever.
 
Carcer said:
I have a question if someone will answer it.
Will sharing our discoveries on runic reagents be as problematic as trading runes as we have already done?
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bird yells said:
I don't think there's any official word on this topic we could point you to, but realistically speaking, I wouldn't expect reagent research to be any more sensitive than other kinds of rune research. The bros shared knowledge internally regarding voidstone as part of Snorri's initial membership deal and that does not appear to have been controversial. So it's probably perfectly fine for Snorri to share his mat-sci stuff with current and former apprentices or show it off to Master Yorri or report it to the bros or barter it away during a rune trade with another smith. He'd only get in trouble if he did something more radical with the knowledge, like handing it out to lots and lots of people in an uncontrolled fashion or whatever.
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This is mostly correct.

I realize canonically that Kragg has shared a Rune to the greater Runesmiths Guild in the future, but the circumstances are different here, at least for now. Simply put, the only Dwarfs currently who have shared Rune's they've made on masse are Thungni or his immediate children and apprentices whenever they find some Rune they think is either:

- Important enough to be known by every Runesmith
- Simple enough that any Runesmith is worthy of knowing it.

But usually, its some mix of the above two reasons, though the ratio of these reasons depends on the Runesmith in question. Thungni, obviously, is perfectly balanced/ everyone believes whichever reason best fits their worldview.

It should also be noted that Thungni is the only Runesmith to have done so more than maybe two or three times over their whole lives.

The circumstances that let Kragg canonically disseminate the info for a Rune aren't prevalent here, so if you decided to mass dump Runic knowledge as he did and these very few Runelords have, it'll opens its own can of worms.

Anyhoo, I'll lock the vote in 6 hours folks. : ^)
 
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Jreengus said:
Ok so I'd like to expand on my thoughts about the heir's shield into thoughts on a whole set. So the first decision for the heir's set is are we going for something similar to the king's set but ice themed? This would have the advantage of getting the heir used to the kind of equipment they'd use as king and let us double up on that sets strengths but I would argue against. Going for something different would let us fill gaps left by the king's capabilities and frankly I think it would be more fun to do something different. So the question becomes what do aim for set bonus wise and I would like to propose a storm themed set.

We already have the cloak which create a defensive blizzard around the wearer, slowing and freezing enemies so for the weapon slots I would propose a thunderbolt axe and a stormfront shield. The axe would have something like MThunderbolts + Striking + Accuracy, the shield would be something like MStormfront + 2 of (Parrying/Iron/Slowness/Shielding/Spelleating). The axe would add a more offensive element to the potential set bonus, the lightning striking out from the storm to kill. The shield would hopefully tie together the cloaks defensive icy winds with the axe's offensive lightning strikes being a combination of ice and lightning and being both defensive and and offensive, the set bonus would thus expand the storm from the cloak and shield combining them to cover a larger area whilst adding the axe's lightning in to strike down foes.

The only remaining piece would be the talisman which I'm not really sure on. Maybe something with MDismay could work turning the storm more sinister, dark and foreboding... I'm not sure exactly what the combo would be though.
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Striking and Accuracy are IIRC basically the same rune. IIIRC thunderbolts makes the weapon its put on hit like a thunderbolt and also zap the target and stuff (It might also zap people around the target, don't really recall). Speed makes the wielder faster, Might makes them stronger, Impact makes it hit harder.

I could see a variant of Meteorfall potentially working, Thunderbolts + Impact + Might to encapsulate the force of a thunderbolt.

Thunderbolts' "hit harder with zaps" might play well with Impact's "hit even harder" and Speed's "make you hit faster". Speed and impact in general I could see playing well with each other.
 
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BungieONI said:
Striking and Accuracy are IIRC basically the same rune. IIIRC thunderbolts makes the weapon its put on hit like a thunderbolt and also zap the target and stuff (It might also zap people around the target, don't really recall). Speed makes the wielder faster, Might makes them stronger, Impact makes it hit harder.

I could see a variant of Meteorfall potentially working, Thunderbolts + Impact + Might to encapsulate the force of a thunderbolt.

Thunderbolts' "hit harder with zaps" might play well with Impact's "hit even harder" and Speed's "make you hit faster". Speed and impact in general I could see playing well with each other.
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The description we have of thunderbolts is:
soulcake said:
Master Rune of Thunderbolts: Necessary Ingredients: [T3] Storm Wyrm's Blood/Dragon Ogre Shaggoth's Blood: The weapon crackles with barely controlled lightning that erupts in a massive burst of electricity that travels through nearby foes or can be concentrated at a lesser foe in a single strike.
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My hope was that a combo with the accuracy runes could turn that burst of electricity into a targeted bolt that could hit something at range. Your suggestions seem like they could work as well though, the heir might not even need a ranged attack if the set makes a storm that can gradually whittle down anything that tries to avoid axe range.
 
I'd imagine Matsci secret keeping would be a bit more complex if, say, Snori realized one of the regents that he's selling actually has a notable drawback that someone wouldn't know.

For example Azrilwut is a known Wutroth derivative and is frequently used as a substitute. If Snori knew that using Azrilwut as a substitute for Wutroth in a specific rune would cause serious issues, but otherwise works quite well he can't just claim "rune secrets" and sell it as a Wutroth derivative without any sort of warning.
 
Jreengus said:
The description we have of thunderbolts is:

My hope was that a combo with the accuracy runes could turn that burst of electricity into a targeted bolt that could hit something at range. Your suggestions seem like they could work as well though, the heir might not even need a ranged attack if the set makes a storm that can gradually whittle down anything that tries to avoid axe range.
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For the heir, I think we'd want the snow version of meteorfall for the easy combo with hailmantle and the belt. MThunderbolts probably would combo with the belt though the hailmantle cloak is probably a bit sketchier. Has any Runelord in the north been shown to actually know MEverfrost?
 
LaggPlaguedDuke said:
For the heir, I think we'd want the snow version of meteorfall for the easy combo with hailmantle and the belt. MThunderbolts probably would combo with the belt though the hailmantle cloak is probably a bit sketchier. Has any Runelord in the north been shown to actually know MEverfrost?
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I don't think the belt really matters that much for the heirs set, it's only going to serve the heir whilst Gimli is the heir, after that it should be worn by the Kings and the heir will have a different talisman.
 
Jreengus said:
The description we have of thunderbolts is:

My hope was that a combo with the accuracy runes could turn that burst of electricity into a targeted bolt that could hit something at range. Your suggestions seem like they could work as well though, the heir might not even need a ranged attack if the set makes a storm that can gradually whittle down anything that tries to avoid axe range.
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Ah! I was looking for that, thank you.

Hmm, looking at that it seems that the wide area boom or a single concentrated strike of lightning is rather similar to what we've achieved with the King's Set.

soulcake said:
Set Combo, Grimnir's Burning Wroth: [Meteorfall, Pyrestrike, Relentless Pursuit] When charging at an enemy or specific point, the user rapidly picks up speed and gains a protective shell of flame around them, gathering more and more energy until it can be released as an explosion of heat and power strong enough to melt steel or condensed into the user's weapon, allies unharmed.
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The bit I bolded in particular.

Therefor I would propose that since the explosion is sort of sourced from Conduction, there's a sort of commonality of attack type. That's actually encouraging in terms of doing a meteorfall variant, since its an explosive or massive strike of lightning I could see that playing well with being enhanced by the runes for "hit hard" and "hit harder". Explosions are always more fun when they hit harder.

I'm not sure how you would get that kind of projection, except by using the Function choice.

If you wanted to make a more storm-like weapon that's less about flinging lightning bolts, an option that might potentially work is Thunderbolts + Cold + Grungni. Where in this instance we're invoking the thunder and wind and cold of a storm, and weaving in connections to Grungni's thunder associations. (As an aside I do expect that Thunderbolts + Grungni should play nice together)
 
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soulcake said:
Set Combo, Grimnir's Burning Wroth: [Meteorfall, Pyrestrike, Relentless Pursuit] When charging at an enemy or specific point, the user rapidly picks up speed and gains a protective shell of flame around them, gathering more and more energy until it can be released as an explosion of heat and power strong enough to melt steel or conden
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Interested in the limits of this. How far of a charge can it support? Like if he somehow charged for miles could he blow up an entire army? Also love the double meaning of charge.
 
soulcake said:
It should also be noted that Thungni is the only Runesmith to have done so more than maybe two or three times over their whole lives.

The circumstances that let Kragg canonically disseminate the info for a Rune aren't prevalent here, so if you decided to mass dump Runic knowledge as he did and
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I suppose its also worth noting at this point in history, since its self evident that Thungni knows every possible rune, he must also have decided to specifically not mass release any given rune. Thus adding another reason that dwarves would have to consider carefully trying to propagate something.
 
Thoughts: an ostentatious ceremony versus a subdued ceremony... thinking on the message it might send to Snerra and the other Runelords. Ostentatiousness might be seen by people as Snorri finally trying to throw all his weight and influence around in order to declare "Yes, this is how things should be."

So, I'm glad we're not doing that, and are overwhelmingly voting for subdued.

Secondly... The Grimnir's Burning Wroth set combo.

Is it possible to research set combos as a whole, too? The way we research rune combos?



And yes, on another topic, I did wonder about Accuracy or Striking providing a "targeting" ability to the Master Rune of Thunderbolts.

"The weapon crackles with barely controlled lightning that erupts in a massive burst of electricity that travels through nearby foes or can be concentrated at a lesser foe in a single strike."

That "barely controlled" bit seems like a perfect opportunity for a second or third rune to play off of. Whether to introduce control to it, or to exaggerate the power and wildness of it.

Another potential facet or aspect or angle that rune additions can take, is focusing on the "travels through nearby foes" part -- such as by imparting a 'debuff' on the foes struck by the lightning.

For example, imagine the idea of a "Paralysis" rune. That's... well. I don't need to spell it out do I; it's the old idea of "hit by lightning and paralyzed." :p

Rune of Lightspite: Blows struck against the bearer are reflected back as flashes of searing light. Does not affect allies. (Armor)
Rune of Lightfright: The user can send directed flashes of blinding light. Those affected will be afflicted with terrifying visions of their worst fears for a set duration. Does not affect allies. (Talisman)

But imagine also lightspite or lightfright.

Or, perhaps more directly... MThunderbolts + Fear.

Maybe with Paralysis as the third rune.

The thunderbolt strikes, and foes are frozen by fear of it. Maybe more poetically, "Grungni's wrath strikes, and foes are frozen by fear and the magnitude of it."
 
AzureShogun said:
Is that a thing coming up!?!? I noticed the mention of expanding the canal, but didn't really get the impression of... elgi... joining the Karaz Ankor at any point?
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Probably not anytime soon, but the elgi and dawi were very close allies in cannon so it's possible we might be able to do that at some point in the future.

Edit: To be clear in the original post I was referring to the Hearth Guard being multispecies now it has Brana in it, not the KA as a whole being multispecies.
 
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BungieONI said:
Where in this instance we're invoking the thunder and wind and cold of a storm, and weaving in connections to Grungni's thunder associations.
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Grungni's what now? The only thunder associations I can think of is that his warhammer is called "Thunderhammer". Is there lore I've missed there?
 
Fayhem said:
Grungni's what now? The only thunder associations I can think of is that his warhammer is called "Thunderhammer". Is there lore I've missed there?
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From the item description of Stormfront: Combo, Stormfront: [Master Rune of Blizzards, Rune of Lightning, Rune of Grungni][The bearer is enshrouded in a layer of form blurring icy fog, while lightning crackles around them, attacking foes and vaporizing lesser projectiles into ash.] The Rolling thunderheads that swallow entire mountains are a common sight in the north in high summer, the old legends say that when Grungni first swung Drongrundum the skies, seeking to emulate him, created lightning and thunder in response.
 
Thunder association isn't a strong one frankly, at least compared to all the Gods of Order. Grungni is, after all, the Ancestor of Mines, Smiths, Artisans and Kingship. Frankly all of the Ancestor Gods have little to no association with the sky, but Grungni sorta has the strongest.

Though associating his mighty blows with the sound of thunder and the fact that his hammer has the word in it is about all there is.

Should say a lot when that is considered the Ancestor with the most connections to the sky.
 
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