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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Fayhem said:
Which reads like the focus of the current action is just Runesmiths, and expanding the project to cover regular smiths would be a 2c.
So I went back and tracked down the update to check now and, uh, it looks like I read it right the first time? That seems very clear that the current action is just for Runesmiths, and the idea of expanding that to regular smiths would be another project after that.
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You did yes, I completely agree 2b has more parts after it. What I was objecting to/confused by was the idea that a 2c would be stepping on the toes of the regular smiths by us coming up with a way for them to make Gromril Chain.
 
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I find it hilarious that in the future there is this thing (gromril chain (mail)) that was considered an act of divine skill that Santa dwarf is going to make into that tedious, boring skilled labor we ditch on the apprentices as punishment training. With less than a century of research once he bothered.

An act of divine skill reduced to skilled busy work. There will be so much lolwut?! thrown around.
 
I hope Snerra doesn't end up going through with the wandering hermit part. It would be a bit of a waste of such potential.

[x] Ceremony: Subdued.
[x] Brana: Accept
 
soulcake said:
Bonus got reduced to match the dice roll. so it got turned into the Plus two of the first Recruit Roll that you saw.
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Oh, I see it now. Ha, that makes 2/2 of my omakes used on failing rolls that were then rendered irrelevant by ridiculously successful rerolls.

At least the Hearthwarden snazz points helped. :p

Man, Nightwing and Norgrim are going to be best tracker bros. Doesn't that sound like an old-timey radio show? The Adventures of Norgrim and Nightfeather.
 
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IronFist said:
Also, this is the first time we've seen Fjolla interact with a male dwarf that is not Dolgi for the second time.
/updates shipping chart
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Yep, and considering how she apparently is already starting to get a reputation of seemingly talking to thin air, my chart of their ship definitely already puts them as having left the harbor and heading straight towards the Unknown.
 
I wonder if Joll has already cracked long range communication and just hasn't letting anyone know? He talks with people as he wonders around.
 
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Now I'm imagining Joll and Fjolla's wedding, with Fjolla standing alone at the altar and Joll refusing to be visible at his own wedding. And at the same time Master Yorri is smacking wedding guests with Troll Tongue and encouraging Snorri to flank them with Pocket Gravel.
 
Catpetter1981 said:
Now I'm imagining Joll and Fjolla's wedding, with Fjolla standing alone at the altar and Joll refusing to be visible at his own wedding. And at the same time Master Yorri is smacking wedding guests with Troll Tongue and encouraging Snorri to flank them with Pocket Gravel.
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Yorri better hope he is wearing his armour, because i hear Fjolla has a mean left hook.

Also @soulcake: perhaps it has already been asked (much earlier) but is the reason Fjolla is of Clan Hrokisson due to the same kind of amicable split we are seeing with the Ynnlinssons of Karaz-a-Karak?
 
fictionfan said:
I wonder if Joll has already cracked long range communication and just hasn't letting anyone know? He talks with people as he wonders around.
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Could be any or all of:

(a) Light-manipulating runes (he's there in the same room but hidden from sight due to runes)

(b) Sound manipulating runes (he's in a totally different room but projecting his voice and hearing Fjolla's voice due to runes)

(c) Elder Ranger-level stealth (No runes required, he's just that good at hiding in plain sight)
 
BungieONI said:
You did yes, I completely agree 2b has more parts after it. What I was objecting to/confused by was the idea that a 2c would be stepping on the toes of the regular smiths by us coming up with a way for them to make Gromril Chain.
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Oh, that. I was more thinking of the precedent of the Messenger's Guild conceptual turf snafu that Jorri's been embroiled in indefinitely, and also the precedent of it being pointed out that there was a risk that Snorri's efforts with the Valayans could be taken amiss to a frankly alarming extent:
soulcake said:
"Before we begin," Moira says as you sit down in the chair across from her, "I hope you know what this could do to both of our Guilds if you fumble this lad.
[...]
"If you bungle the execution of this you risk drawing censure at the least, and an outright schism or fighting within and maybe between the Cults of Valaya and Thungni at most. I dare not think of a worse possible outcome, Ancestors forbid it never gets there in the first place.
[...]
"Trying your best was never in question lad, I wouldn't be entertaining the notion of getting the Temple and Clergy involved if I didn't think you had the chops, but I feel a word of caution and a simple reminder wouldn't be remiss here," she responds, taking a deep breath before glaring at you with a level of seriousness that makes you sit in your seat straight and leaves you feeling like a child of fourteen winters staring at Valaya in the flesh.

"Take heed of how you appear before the wider eyes of the Guild. You've done good enough work so far, but as we're both aware you've never been one for optics in the centuries I've worked alongside you. It's been fine enough before and extenuating circumstances have shielded you from the worst effects of your actions, but it won't be the same with this as I'm sure you understand. What you're doing here cannot go wrong lest we damn our people to centuries of infighting and bring shame to our Ancestors and Descendants alike. Do you understand?" Moira states, voice calm but words heavier than a mountain of Gromril.
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Dwarf Guilds be hella touchy about their turf, yeah?

Now, would working on gromril chain for the regular smiths risk triggering the same concerns with the Smiths' Guild and/or the Cult of Smednir? Dunno! But I don't think it's inherently unreasonable to be concerned it might; "here's a way of doing what you do now but better thanks to the power of Runes, that I came up with, and now want to share with and distribute to you" seems like it might be an apt description of both the Valayan thing and what we'd be considering doing with expanding the gromril chain to regular smiths. I would hope the risk of this with regular smiths would be appreciably less than it was with the Valayans given the long history of close collaboration between Runesmiths and the regular smiths already, but I'm not prepared to just assume it wouldn't. Especially not when Snorri's partial blindness towards politics is a long-established character trait. He might think of these concerns eventually (as he mentions in his half of the quoted conversation above, to be fair), but in his first idle thoughts regarding a project he might undertake after his current large-scale project? Eh, I'm certainly not prepared to take him not noting it as a concern then as a reason to assume it couldn't be a concern.

I don't think that's necessarily a reason to be opposed to Rune Metal 2b at this point, Thor's Twin's arguments about the example-setting value of even a limited expansion of the ability to Runesmiths in general (in theory, at least; the point of comparison is Adamant, after all) have won me over on that score. But that benefit is IMO massively reduced when it comes to spreading this to the regular smiths after this. Showing it can be done by non-Ancestors could make a powerful point. Expanding the capability to do it after that point isn't much more than just spreading the benefits of the capability itself. Which I don't really think would be worth it even without any risk of smith-related backlash at all, so that's almost a moot point for me personally.
 
Fayhem said:
Oh, that. I was more thinking of the precedent of the Messenger's Guild conceptual turf snafu that Jorri's been embroiled in indefinitely, and also the precedent of it being pointed out that there was a risk that Snorri's efforts with the Valayans could be taken amiss to a frankly alarming extent:

Dwarf Guilds be hella touchy about their turf, yeah?

Now, would working on gromril chain for the regular smiths risk triggering the same concerns with the Smiths' Guild and/or the Cult of Smednir? Dunno! But I don't think it's inherently unreasonable to be concerned it might; "here's a way of doing what you do now but better thanks to the power of Runes, that I came up with, and now want to share with and distribute to you" seems like it might be an apt description of both the Valayan thing and what we'd be considering doing with expanding the gromril chain to regular smiths. I would hope the risk of this with regular smiths would be appreciably less than it was with the Valayans given the long history of close collaboration between Runesmiths and the regular smiths already, but I'm not prepared to just assume it wouldn't. Especially not when Snorri's partial blindness towards politics is a long-established character trait. He might think of these concerns eventually (as he mentions in his half of the quoted conversation above, to be fair), but in his first idle thoughts regarding a project he might undertake after his current large-scale project? Eh, I'm certainly not prepared to take him not noting it as a concern then as a reason to assume it couldn't be a concern.

I don't think that's necessarily a reason to be opposed to Rune Metal 2b at this point, Thor's Twin's arguments about the example-setting value of even a limited expansion of the ability to Runesmiths in general (in theory, at least; the point of comparison is Adamant, after all) have won me over on that score. But that benefit is IMO massively reduced when it comes to spreading this to the regular smiths after this. Showing it can be done by non-Ancestors could make a powerful point. Expanding the capability to do it after that point isn't much more than just spreading the benefits of the capability itself. Which I don't really think would be worth it even without any risk of smith-related backlash at all, so that's almost a moot point for me personally.
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I really don't see the comparison tbh.

Forged Limbs is a problem because of the Rule of Pride/the type of thought that engenders, and that we could end up having the optics of forcing other runesmiths to work to our vision (which is the big nasty part). "here's a way of doing what you do now but better thanks to the power of Runes, that I came up with, and now want to share with and distribute to you" isn't actually an issue in and of itself. Moira took it because she wanted it and agreed it'd help dwarves, and she warned us about the political consequences. Not what but how. And spreading chain to the smiths just does not have the same how.

Giving stuff to the Metalsmiths has none of the issues tied to Forged Limbs, because its: rune enough tools for the masters of a clan to do it, wash your hands of the issue and then leave. There's no sense of permanence or continued collaboration/collectivization as with Forged Limb, because it just isn't necessary to get it spread.

On that alone I'd think it isn't going to happen. And if it did, we know exactly how to completely obviate the risk anyway, just like we've done with Forged Limbs.

Not sure how to approach the material benefits honestly, I think we have fundamentally different axioms there and conceptions of how much wealth the Golden Age actually has available to it. Don't think that argument will really go anywhere.
 
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Also: has there been mention of Karak Izor and Karak Hirn in quest yet? Cos that is where Karstah appears to be headed, if my map is correct.
 
Fayhem said:
any risk of smith-related backlash at all
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there won't be any risk of smith related backlash as there is already precedent for the rune smiths providing runic tools and methods to metal smiths guild , the forges that refine raw gromril into pure gromril they use for example are runic in nature so Snorri providing the tools to turn pure gromril in chain would not be an issue
 
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