On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.
So did all of Snorri's previous apprentices before Dolgi and Fjolla get wiped out by the Chaos Incursion. I remember Snorri denying they were dead, and just couldn't be contacted. And then it never came up again.
So did all of Snorri's previous apprentices before Dolgi and Klorah get wiped out by the Chaos Incursion. I remember Snorri denying they were dead, and just couldn't be contacted. And then it never came up again.
For all your, rightful, criticism, you must admit that Jorri has made a name for himself. One of the larger businesses in the Karaz Ankor, he had a not-insignificant amount of pull in the Caravan subset of the greater Merchants Guild. You've been told, rather angrily, in the past that Jorri was currently in a very drawn-out legal battle over the remit of the Merchants Guild as opposed to the Messengers Guild. Most of it was of little consequence to you, but it boiled down to whether a dwarf passenger fell under the Merchants Guild's remit of transport or whether a Dwarf was considered "non-monetary trade goods," which fell under the purview of Messenger's guild.
You recall telling Jorri that this sounded like something that required a new guild altogether, but the withering glare he sent your way was enough to shut down that avenue of discussion.
The current legal troubles were stonefruit seeds compared to the legal hellscape that came with the founding of a new guild.
Bah! You impatient youngster. It's not even been two centuries yet, they're still ensuring that each sides evidence is correct and proper. COme back next century if you want to hear the actual court case happening.
So did all of Snorri's previous apprentices before Dolgi and Fjolla get wiped out by the Chaos Incursion. I remember Snorri denying they were dead, and just couldn't be contacted. And then it never came up again.
I mean if they actually were killed then Snorri would have to grudge the hell out of whatever killed them so maybe it's better if he just doesn't know what happened to them?
I mean if they actually were killed then Snorri would have to grudge the hell out of whatever killed them so maybe it's better if he just doesn't know what happened to them?
He already has a grudge against Chaos anyway.
And closure (and knowing to declare a grudge) is better than being stuck in limbo, waiting for news against who to declare a grudge against.
That really isnt true, not knowing would suck for us but for Snorri it gives him hope. Finding out for sure means he will have the mental equivalent of sucking chest wound. Grudges weigh very heavy on the dwarven psyche. To many grudges and they collapse mentally. Grudges that can never be repaid are the worst.
That really isnt true, not knowing would suck for us but for Snorri it gives him hope. Finding out for sure means he will have the mental equivalent of sucking chest wound. Grudges weigh very heavy on the dwarven psyche. To many grudges and they collapse mentally. Grudges that can never be repaid are the worst.
That really isnt true, not knowing would suck for us but for Snorri it gives him hope. Finding out for sure means he will have the mental equivalent of sucking chest wound. Grudges weigh very heavy on the dwarven psyche. To many grudges and they collapse mentally. Grudges that can never be repaid are the worst.
Possibly too controversial, but given the existence of magic that does so in the Warhammer Roleplay, I wonder if there are runes, possibly spin-offs from Mind of Things, that would help dwarves recover from mental trauma. Either natural, or induced by cognito-hazards.
Bah! You impatient youngster. It's not even been two centuries yet, they're still ensuring that each sides evidence is correct and proper. COme back next century if you want to hear the actual court case happening.
Roll dice to guess what could be happening in Karak Kadrin.
Playing with d4 2 Burlok Thagrimsson. well-respected overseer in Kadrin's mines
Who is d4 4 Heavily involved in the production of Kadrin steel
Resources d20 4
Social ability d20 5
Has he behaved dishonourably to set up an ambush for the previous king? 1 yes -3 knew hints and did nothing +4 no d20 12 No
Biggest rival 1-5 Grim 6-10 ??? 11-15 Drago 16-20 Thorri :18 Thorri the Engineer
Ally or at least happy with kingship? 1-5 Grim 6-10 ??? 11-15 Drago 16-20 Thorri: Eliminated second candidate.
Is he courting a ruling Karak clan to improve his standing? 1. No 2. Yes Ruling 3. Branch of Ruling 4. Well connected Clan: d4 4
Which Karak d8 3 Kraz a Karak
Is he doing so succesfully? Social + wealth -20 (It's the biggest Karak)= 5 Yes but it's expensive
Which Tax collector did he send? d4 3. The third.
He arrested the Winterhearth trade caravan!!!!
Was this was random or planned for leverage? d2 2 planned. What?
How much does he know about Snorri? d20 13 Major events + local gossip
How much does he know about Jorri? d20 7 Trader Moves rich goods regular trips north.
Has he been doing this to other traders? d20 2 No planning on squeezing Jorri specifically
WHAT?
Frantic writing ensues.
Turn 63 Royal Rumble Three
//\\ 243AP//\\
Your chief Reckoner and frequent advisor Dimrond Dimzadsson, bows himself from the room, the flicker of firelight briefly illuminating the Bull pendant he wears concealed under his robes. His words have strengthened your resolve. All this is for the benefit of Karak Kadrin, even the distasteful parts.
You, Burlok Thagrimsson, turn to the map of the Karak spread over the desk in your office staring over it into the fire, thoughts and plans whirring in your head like the pop of embers from the burning wood before you. Less than a decade to go before this mess is adequately sorted by your estimation, time for one last Gambit if you dare. But which one will give you the advantage you need? Bah. If the elders had just given you the throne immediately, as should have been obvious, then the Karak could have got back to business long before this.
Your lodgings are still the mine overseer's office, the heart of the internal production of the Karak and a building more and more Dwarfs are looking to for guidance. Not the most impressive building but one that demonstrates your virtues. Conservative and Economic strength. Your planning and organisation keep this Karak healthy. You keep the Forges fed and the Stockpiles full, you ensure the warriors have their weapons and the walls are maintained, without fickle unpredictable support from outside the Karak. What do the other candidates bring that you do not?
A quick break from your planning to stretch and look at your office's items rouses your temper. Bah! It would be best if you were using the main hall of the clan home for this, but Grim Gurnisson has long since claimed it as his Headquarters for his foolish bid for the vacant throne of Karak Kadrin. While it displayed his conservative Nature and his Martial Prowess, it gives him unearned attention. He did not slay the Ghorgons that killed King Thorgrim Baragorsson or Prince Skaldor Thorgrimsson or their Retinue. They defeated the Ghorgons at the cost of their own lives. Nor has he completed any Great Martial deeds in the decades since, content to frame himself as a protector without lifting his axe and play the game of diplomacy instead. What has he done to better the hold, slain a beast, defended from a threat? Or just bellowed and blustered?
Firelight flickers against a copy of the engraving on the steel doors to the Karak from the underway. The warrior and the merchant united. But in the light flickering from your fire, it seemed like the warrior was menacing the merchant. Appropriate you snort in dark humour. Sending his Reckoners to tax every merchant has driven them all from the hold. While your Reckoners targeting of the wealthiest merchants may have helped drive them away, his greed has done most of the damage. Rather than moderating the tolls taken to not unduly upset the merchants, he sent more Reckoners to ensure that his tolls where paid first.
A move copied by that Fool pretending to be an engineer Thorri Rorisson. By the time you sent your Reckoners to collect tolls from the richest, the damage was already done. As King he should have taken the lead and assigned who would toll which merchant. He should have done something to mitigate the mess when the situation was not working. Grim Gurnisson did neither and simply watched the Merchants driven from the Karak. While driving out the merchants was your goal. It also revealed his incompetence and inability to deal with subtle Gambits like yours. Did he think actions like yours would not happen under his rule? If so, he was naive in the extreme. The next time something like this happened to Karak Kadrin it would not be done by a dwarf with the Karaks best intrests in mind. An able warrior and Commander Grim Gurnisson may be but not one that should reach further than that.
However, he is a more palatable choice than Dargo Sorensson. Goods and treasures that are not at hand may as well not exist, and Dargo has proved it. Yes, Dargo sensibly focuses on the holds Economic Development but his methods are too radical and not solid. He invariably employs risky ventures and new, unproven ideas that gain great wealth when they work. They also leave you to make up the shortfall when they do not. His basing himself out of the Merchants Guildhall was a mistake. The loss of trade shows all with eyes the inherent instability of his position. A place that should be bustling with activity and wealth for the Karak is looking empty and shabby after that Gambit two decades ago. A secret monument to your victory and a pointed reminder of what happens to an isolated Karak in miniature. Grimnir is long gone. The dwarf that saved Karak Karadin before from a siege of Demons is no longer with us. Dwarfs these days must find new strength. And what has Dargo done? Continued the same losing strategy, trying to sway dwarfs with the promise of merchant caravans that do not exist to carry goods the Karak needs today that will arrive in a year. As King, Dargo would risk us all if Karadin ever falls under siege again. Still, his leadership would be better than the last candidates.
Thorri Rorisson is a radical and risky engineer fond of construction devices barely out of the testing phase with no consideration of tradition. While his policies focus on an equal balance between Martial and Economic, his work's sheer unproven nature is too dangerous. He has rolled the dice and won more than he has lost, but his wins and losses are always substantial. Worse, You where assigned Thorri Rorisson's Losses! His elevator, installed in the mines you oversee against your protest, have broken down twice, massively disrupting schedules. Even its very installation uncovered then forever blocked a very promising seam of iron. A seam that you cannot explore as it would destabilise the elevator. Bah! And to think some dwarf stated it makes the mine look nice. Bah! As if ore a dwarf could not work was anything a sane dwarf wanted to see. He has taken the results of your planning and labour and claimed it as his own. The mines you oversee produce raw materials meant to go to carefully managed stockpiles and skilled dwarfs. They are not to be usurped on mass to create flashy wonders like Thorri's upgrade to the already proven and well equipped 18 Companies of Siege instead of your carefully planned addition to the forge district. This action and similar appropriations have given Thorri Rorisson's a look of unearned productivity and has dwarves listening to him that should, by rights, be listening to you. His trespass Burns and when you are King…
You force your hands to relax and turn back to the map table and the messages awaiting you on it.
Firstly, Good news.
Your efforts over the last decade searching for a suitable bride to strengthen your position has not only proven successful but very much so. Clan Yinlinsson from Karaz-a-Karak has a Dwarf willing to entertain your suit. While the dowry is higher than you would have preferred, even rumours of your courting will force the others to react, scrambling to collect brides and start new dynasties. As if any marriage could be adequately planned and negotiated in less than a decade.
An actual wedding will have your rivals rush their negotiations disgracefully and potentially to poor results. In contrast, Dwarfs will see you moving at a traditional pace. A cadet branch of Yinlinsson moves here, a clan of brewers and warriors strengthens the internal trade of the Karak and increases its safety. Also, as most dwarfs need alcohol to get through the day, there is a profit to be made, especially from the brewers that made a drink so potent that it impressed Valaya herself less than half a century ago.
The second document, battered and a little smudged, offers Potential and Risk. It represents your Gambit's to drive the merchants from the Karak last loose ends.
Dimrond Dimzadsson is both your Reckoner and the dwarf who arrested the leader of Jorri Klausson of Clan Winterhearth's trade Caravan. He has kept the record of the event. It is undeniable proof that Thorulf Thorgnyssn is a toll dodger. Holding on to the document would allow you to prove that Jorri Klausson doges tolls by association and therefore, it is reasonable to charge him more for the ones he does pay. Or Jorri could choose to discharge the debt to his honour another way. His brother is the Legendary Gift giver. You could "forgive" the trespass against Karak Kadrin for a coronation gift forged by a dwarf known to have crowned his Karaks ruler, allowing Jorri to prove that he usually associates with more reputable dwarves. Jorri would have to dismiss and publicly rebuke Thorulf Thorgnyssn and his entire caravan to avoid Thorulf's thieving taint sticking.
These rely on Jorri knowing Dimrond Dimzadsson was your Reckoner and that you have the document in your possession. Suppose you "find" it after your coronation. In that case, there will be whispers that a legitimate reckoner did not collect it and you are dishonourably taking advantage of the situation Jorri finds himself in. However, if Jorri knows it is in your possession, and you don't receive your rightful throne, he could approach the new King. That individual will likely have you charged for falsely collecting taxes, damaging your honour and standing irreparably and forcing you to dismiss Dimrond. The legal fees from a hostile court could be enormous.
The final item in or desk is a copy of a scouting report representing a potential new gambit this decade.
It seems that a small heard of beastmen and a Ghorgon have made camp next to a warpstone nodule near a tiny seam of Gromril that you haven't yet revealed to the Karak. Doing nothing and leaving it until after your coronation is low risk. Defeating the warheard and then miraculously finding Gromril will cement your rule as all but unassailable. Doing it before, slaying a lesser cousin of the beasts that slew King Thorgrim Baragorsson will give you significant legitimacy, attract many clans but exposes you to a great deal of risk. Four of these things killed the King and his bodyguards. Finally, you could leak the location to one of your rivals and see if they take it. It either would give them legitimacy and potentially the Gromril or eliminate them permanently from the competition and leaving you to avenge them heroically.
Decisions yet to be made and weighty ones, Yet far lighter than those you will have to make as King.
Grungni's bust looks down on you. His disapproving scowl is deepening in the firelight. Not that you notice, too absorbed in your schemes.
//\\--//\\
Rumours
- The Gift Giver has done it again. After returning from the expedition to Karak Dum and seeing its destruction on the orders of ancestor Gazul, he has spent his efforts lately building a new Karak for the rescued survivors. Further rumour has it that he has financed the entire thing himself. An impressive feat. Less so when you realise the gift giver owns both a Gromril mine and a Wutroth forest, among other things.
- Messengers North. Your agents have picked up whispers in the taverns. It seems Grim Gurnisson is proposing a marriage between his sister and of Karak Ungor. Potentially bad news. If he can gain their support, it will strengthen his position. It will take a minor miracle to counter the advantage.
- Licking his wounds. There is no news out of the market district. Is Dargo Sorensson scheming something, or is he preparing to do what he should have done long ago and withdraw from the race?
- Rumbles of construction. That Dwarf Thorri Rorisson has raided one of your carefully assembled stockpiles reducing the Karaks stored wealth. What manner of dangerous, unproven thing could he be building this time?
//\\--//\\
Gain:
Record for the arrest of one Thorulf Thorgnyssn employed by Jorri Klausson of Clan Winterhearth. Once you are King, you can negotiate a higher tariff for him passing through the Karak, a kind of insurance as he employs known fee dodgers. To resolve the issue Jorri could offer to pay you a great deal of money, disown the dwarf in question and be forever known to have hired a disreputable dwarf. Or perhaps he could talk to his brother, the Gift-Giver and persuade him to make you a runic item to settle their clans' debt to you.
These actions require that Jorri know you have the record in your possession. "Finding" the document after your coronation will not have nearly the impact. Worse, being known to have the form and not being crowned could be a liability and used as proof of you collecting tariffs without authority…
Marriage contract for clan Yinlinsson. Its very existence pressures the other claimants. It is proof that you have links to other Karaks and strength to call. The blood of Grimnir already flows through your veins, and now you can be confident that Valaya blessing will follow your line too. It also proves that you are already planning for Heirs. While some brewing clans may be unhappy in the short term, the competition will drive them to succeed. A dwarf with a mouthful of good beer is a productive dwarf. And this beer impressed Valaya herself. Of course, you could wait till you Held the throne. That would increase your standing and significantly reduce the bride price...
Scouting tip. Location of a Ghorgon and its beastman heard. While it will give you significant prestige to slay one, they are dangerous beasts. Perhaps leaking the location to one of your rivals might result in them having an accident…
//\\--//\\
Grudges
Level 2. Thorri Rorisson. For the installation of machines tested for only 200 years, disruption of your mining progress, the blocking of an ore load of estimates to be valued at minimum 2700 gold coins, disruption of smelters schedule costing you 1300 gold and going behind your back and getting this mess approved after you denied him. The only punishment acceptable is exile.
Current Clan Leanings
Grim Gurnisson is ahead with 8. Burlok Thagrimsson and Dargo Sorensson command 6 each. Thorri Rorisson only has 5 listening to him
25 clans in total
Major clan support round 2
You currently have:
3 of 6 mining clans
0 of 4 merchant clans
0 of 5 warrior clans
2 of 4 Smith clans
1 of 4 craft clans
//\\--//\\
You have 5 actions and 26000 gold.
//\\--//\\
Gambit
[ ] Bait. Arrange for Grim Gurnisson to receive the scouting report. While he may earn glory slaying the beasts, he is just as likely to be slain himself. If he succeeds, he will have all but claimed the kingship. If he fails, this will present you with a weakened beastman heard and a grudge to be resolved that will resonate with the population. Either Instant Win or Loss Cost: 2 actions. DC 50
[ ] Slay them Yourself. While you are no seasoned campaigner, you can swing a pick. You can plan, you know the territory, and you have a hidden exit where you can sneak two companies of recently decommissioned siege weapons to create a killing field. After you kill a heard of beastmen you can investigate that seam of Gromril. You lack experienced troops and a good excuse for not passing it onto Grim Gurnisson, but Success covers all sorts of Sins. ??? Cost: 2 actions. DC 30
[ ] Nothing for now. Hunting and slaying a beastman heard followed by finding a seam of Gromril sounds like a good thing to unify the hold after your ascension to the throne. Leave it till then and hope the beastman heard is not found by others, wanders off or grows bigger.
Low risk. Cost: 0 actions. DC 10
//\\--//\\
[ ] *New* Get married. Certain changes to your living quarters and lifestyle will have to be made and prices paid. However you will gain a lovely wife, An unbeatable beer recipe, links to Karaz-a-Karak. and more importantly, an unswayable clan. Cost: 20000 Gold, 1 action. Gain a wife. Beer and a Craft or Warrior Clan that supports you. Gain an additional 1d2 Warrior or Craft Clan support. (Complete Gambit Get married)
[ ] *New* Wait. Continue the negotiations. A marriage may be just what you need to unite Karak Kadrin after you Ascend to the throne. It will also reduce the bride price significantly.
Cost: 0 actions.
[ ] *New* Evidence Use It. (May not be taken with Evidence lose it.) Let Jorri Klausson know you have Proof Thorulf Thorgnyssn attempted to evade proper Tariffs. While you will see the additional tariffs he payed reimbursed from your rival's coffers, he still employed a Tariff dodger. To settle the issue, he will either need to pay higher tolls in the future, acquire a runic item from the Gift Giver for you or both. Breakpoints 20/60/90 (Complete Gambit Target the Merchants) Cost: 1 action.
[ ] *New* Evidence Loose It. (May not be taken with Evidence Use it). It is too risky and likely to backfire. Arrange for the record to be lost and, in the event of you failing to take the throne, there will be no proof you did anything underhanded targeting Jorris caravan. There will be no additional reward either… (Complete Gambit Target the Merchants) Cost: 0 actions.
[ ] Donate to the Temples. Large donations make you seem richer than you might be. It also proves your conservative values. Dwarf Elders like that. Gain a Random Clans support for each 5000 donated Cost: 1 action.
[ ] Announce a policy. Make a ruling that will advantage one group of clans over another. Each clan will roll a DC 75 to see if your words sway them. Each Success will see the clan move either for or away from you. Cost: 500 gold, 1 action and 1 biased decree as King.
[ ] Expand the mines. There is a promising seam on level 15. Investigate it. Cost 2000 Gold 1 actions. Success: Gain an additional 3 Mining or Smith clans support. Failure: Gain 1 Mining or Smith Clans support. DC 30
[ ] Build trade warehouses and subsidise production from your pocket. The merchants will be back as soon as this unpleasantness finishes. Start preparations now. Cost: 1000 Gold 1 actions. Success Gain an additional 3 Merchant, Smith or Craft Clan support. One-off +20000 trade income next turn. DC 40
[ ] Sway Clan with minor promise. Pick an individual clan and attempt to sway them. May be taken multiple times. Cost: 1 actions DC 50
[ ] Reassure Clans already loyal and extract oaths. Lock in your gains. Cost 2 actions DC 20
[ ] Sabotage Efforts. May be taken multiple times. DC 50 to find a Gambit. DC 20 to succeed sabotaging it. Dwarfs are honest and hardworking. Revealing your rivals underhanded dealings or sabotaging them will remind them of proper dwarf behaviour and strengthen your claim to the throne. Cost 1-3 actions 1000/2000/5000 Gold Success: Rival fails their Gambit spectacularly shaming them and removing them from consideration, Greatly increasing your chances of becoming King. + 1 ??? Failure: A grudge is declared. + 1 ???
[ ] Really Sabotage efforts. Dimrond has reassured you that whatever you do to secure the Karak is for the good of all. You have some dwarfs who have sworn absolute loyalty to you. If there is not a Gambit to in progress, they could make one for you to find. Cost 1-3 actions, 500/1000/1500 gold, ??? Success: Rival fails spectacularly shaming them and removing them from consideration, ??? Failure: A grudge is declared. + 1 ???. DC 20
[ ] Throw in the towel. You are not going to win. All that is left to do is Inform the relevant Elders you are withdrawing and soothe ruffled feathers. Cost 3 actions 500 Gold. Gain: Position of steward under the new King (unless it is Thorri Rorisson) Legitimacy and forgiveness for all actions taken, 5 standing with the new King. Lose 1 standing with the hold, ???.
(If Thorri Rorisson becomes King you will pack your bags and leave the hold.)
Remember the other claimants will be taking actions and seeking to take Clan support away from you.
I wondered what was happening in Karak Kadrin, so I rolled some real dice. Then I started writing for fun seeing if I could make a story.
It got a bit further than that.
Your chief Reckoner and frequent advisor Dimrond Dimzadsson, bows himself from the room, the flicker of firelight briefly illuminating the Bull pendant he wears concealed under his robes. His words have strengthened your resolve. All this is for the benefit of Karak Kadrin, even the distasteful parts.
Dimrond Dimzadsson, Your Reckoner and the dwarf who arrested the leader of Jorri Klausson of Clan Winterhearth's trade Caravan, has kept the record of the event. It is undeniable proof that Thorulf Thorgnyssn is a toll dodger. Holding on to the document would allow you to prove that Jorri Klausson doges tolls by association and therefore, it is reasonable to charge him more for the ones he does pay. Or Jorri could choose to discharge the debt to his honour another way. His brother is the Legendary Gift giver. You could "forgive" the trespass against Karak Kadrin for a coronation gift forged by a dwarf known to have crowned his Karaks ruler, allowing Jorri to prove that he usually associates with more reputable dwarves. Jorri would have to dismiss and publicly rebuke Thorulf Thorgnyssn and his entire caravan to avoid Thorulf's thieving taint sticking.
I have an image in my head of Snorri making a crown for this guy that shoots lightning at any worshipper of Hashut that gazes upon it. Be careful what you wish for, beardling.
Somehow I'm not shocked by the bust of Grungni considering this bloke a bit of a shitter. Not at all. Because damn if I don't want to slap him upside the head. Given that seems intentional, well done.
"Bah!" the matronly dwarf replies, "a bit of adversity is good for the young. Gives them something to look to, toughens 'em up. Course the tricky part is finding something tough enough for them to struggle with, but ultimately overcome. Have to get them to dig through some rock before they find the vein after all."
"A dwarf doesn't keep digging a shaft in the hope for gold," the miner replies.
"That's why we go prospecting in the first place. Besides, I could go digging for emeralds, but I won't complain if I find rubies instead no?"
All the miner can do is grumble.
"And what about you lad? It seems a bit daft to do the impossible don't you think?" the miner says.
"That's rich coming from you," his wife snarks.
"I just have lofty expectations. I don't see how it's a problem if it was one of my most fetching qualities or so you've said," he sniffs back.
"It is when you apply it to your grandchildren," she counters.
"They're my grandchildren! I should expect more frankly, now that they know I could do it. The problem with the youth these days," he says with a shake of the head.
"The problem is you not giving them the right sort of challenge," she says, seemingly retreading old ground from the way he huffs in response, "but I'm sure the youngster here doesn't want to hear this old row between us for the first time."
Reread that chapter. I had forgotten Jorri shipped Snorri/Brynna.
Also, speaking of that chapter: Rune of the Unknown is marked as a future rune. Snorri discovers it while trying to figure out where Dwarf matrons keep those baskets of Stonebread
I never could figure out what positions Valaya and Grungni held, could anyone explain them? Like, the argument starts with Valaya saying that adversity is good, but with Grungni saying that there has to be something to keep the Dwarf on the path. Like afterwards it seemed that the positions switched (sorta, not really accurate but it's the best I can think of). Like Valaya was saying that Grungni had high expectations.
As you might guess I still don't understand the beats of this scene.
"Bah!" the matronly dwarf replies, "a bit of adversity is good for the young. Gives them something to look to, toughens 'em up. Course the tricky part is finding something tough enough for them to struggle with, but ultimately overcome. Have to get them to dig through some rock before they find the vein after all."
"A dwarf doesn't keep digging a shaft in the hope for gold," the miner replies.
"That's why we go prospecting in the first place. Besides, I could go digging for emeralds, but I won't complain if I find rubies instead no?"
All the miner can do is grumble.
"And what about you lad? It seems a bit daft to do the impossible don't you think?" the miner says.
"That's rich coming from you," his wife snarks.
"I just have lofty expectations. I don't see how it's a problem if it was one of my most fetching qualities or so you've said," he sniffs back.
"It is when you apply it to your grandchildren," she counters.
"They're my grandchildren! I should expect more frankly, now that they know I could do it. The problem with the youth these days," he says with a shake of the head.
"The problem is you not giving them the right sort of challenge," she says, seemingly retreading old ground from the way he huffs in response, "but I'm sure the youngster here doesn't want to hear this old row between us for the first time."
I never could figure out what positions Valaya and Grungni held, could anyone explain them? Like, the argument starts with Valaya saying that adversity is good, but with Grungni saying that there has to be something to keep the Dwarf on the path. Like afterwards it seemed that the positions switched (sorta, not really accurate but it's the best I can think of). Like Valaya was saying that Grungni had high expectations.
As you might guess I still don't understand the beats of this scene.
I think Grungi thinks the Rune of Eternity is a nice challenge for the youngsters while Valaya advocates for more intermediate challenges instead of throwing them into the deep end.
she chuckles, pulling a flagon of ale out somewhere and taking a hardy chug. She turns and squints at Karstah before nodding and pulling out another flagon.
I think Grungi thinks the Rune of Eternity is a nice challenge for the youngsters while Valaya advocates for more intermediate challenges instead of throwing them into the deep end.
Ayup, with the added context of Snorri having just looked at Azamar and immediately given up on making anything even close to it, as did every single other runesmith who looked at the thing. If Grungni's philosophy is to create the best thing one can with their skills and always aspire to perfection, Valaya understands that younger dawi make mistakes, are fallible, and also tend to get discouraged when presented with something entirely beyond them, rather than challenging but still reasonably attainable. Makes sense, given how she's the mother figure of the Ancestors.
The gromril chain seems to be a bit of a compromise between the two, where they try to encourage the youngsters to accomplish something that only Grungni has done to date, but which is still leagues more achievable than 'Alric Old As Dirt Thungnisson needs a few thousand more years to even get close to being ready to replicate it' Rune of Eternity level perfect.
Ayup, with the added context of Snorri having just looked at Azamar and immediately given up on making anything even close to it, as did every single other runesmith who looked at the thing. If Grungni's philosophy is to create the best thing one can with their skills and always aspire to perfection, Valaya understands that younger dawi make mistakes, are fallible, and also tend to get discouraged when presented with something entirely beyond them, rather than challenging but still reasonably attainable. Makes sense, given how she's the mother figure of the Ancestors.
The gromril chain seems to be a bit of a compromise between the two, where they try to encourage the youngsters to accomplish something that only Grungni has done to date, but which is still leagues more achievable than 'Alric Old As Dirt Thungnisson needs a few thousand more years to even get close to being ready to replicate it' Rune of Eternity level perfect.
Adding to this as well, we also go the basket that had the mystery runes, which we might also want to investigate as part of this challenging but obtainable goal that she set for us. Would only take 6 actions now.
I've mentioned it before, but there's mention that Valaya taught the dwarves how to make wards to protect themselves in one of the Army Books, and from context that's something different to runes.
This suggests that there may be other secret magical arts that the dwarven cults or clergy know, that were never given rules because they're not applicable on the table top.
I've mentioned it before, but there's mention that Valaya taught the dwarves how to make wards to protect themselves in one of the Army Books, and from context that's something different to runes.
This suggests that there may be other secret magical arts that the dwarven cults or clergy know, that were never given rules because they're not applicable on the table top.
0 (c.-5500 IC) -- No written records exist from this time, but legend relates how the Dwarfs, led by their Ancestor Gods, colonise the Worlds Edge Mountains. During this time Grungni teaches his people mining and how to make tools and weapons of iron and steel. Grimnir protects his people and defeats their foes — most famously slaying Urmskaladrak (the Father of Dragons). Valaya teaches the Dwarfs protective wards, the use of runes and the art of brewing.
Protective wards are clearly a separate item that Valaya taught, alongside and separate to using runes, just as much in another category as brewing is. Even if you credit Thungni with teaching runes under her supervision, that still recognises wards as something different and separate to runes that dwarves were taught to do.
Hmm... can anyone find the part where Moira whacks Snorri with a pan? I can't find it... did it even happen, or was it just a threat of being panned (i found that one...).
Must be the memes...
On a sidenote, as of turn 10, the eldest of Clan Winterhearth was ~1200, so if he is still alive, he'd be 1450. Snorri is 500 years younger than that guy. Snorri is actually reasonably close to being one of the Eldest of the clan.
