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Discord.

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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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...
I kinda doubt it, its such a precious secret I expect they'll assume Snorri won't share, but thats off topic because its got nothing to do with spending favour on it?
Unless we think spending favour on it will include them and thus they'll know and we won't be able to get favour by sharing. But the working theory is that actual chain is many steps down the line so spending on the first action ought to be safe even then.
I think there's some miscommunication going on here, I wasn't arguing we shouldn't spend favour (I'm in favour of it infact) I was just trying to explain how spending unlocking the chain could result in more favour. I hadn't considered the idea that getting help might remove that vector of favour gain though I agree spending it here it likely wouldn't be an issue. Personally I'm expecting the parts to be something like:

1b: Narrowing down dead ends and Snorri coming up with a method.

2b: Snorri develops his method overcomes problems with it and succeeds in creating a pair of interlocked rings

3b: Further development resulting in the ability to spend actions to produce chain for use in commissions

4b: Method reaches a point where chain production is automatic without costing actions.

With that I'm not sure we'd even be able to spend favour after maybe 2b.
 
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I don't think it is possible for dwarfs to ever get the complete sensory picture. At most, we'll get a shadows on the wall kind of thing. Enough to know something is there and guess what it does, but not enough for the nuance and true understanding.
Until we take the first dwelf apprentice (and i say this in a very tongue in cheek way :V)

Given runes can apparently do anything, I'm not sure. We might be able to get pretty close. Particularly if we can use a Rune of Brotherhood with a magic using creature to give the runesmith who makes the first generation of such runes insight they could never gan in their own,
 
[X] no fancy pretentious titles
-[X] [Commander Name]: Name the position of Commander for The Hearth Guard, or more accurately for Rudil, because the boy has found himself taking on many of the duties the position entails more by accident than any real desire for it.
- [X] Head Warden of the Hearth
-[X] [Champion Name]: Name the position of Champion of The Hearth Guard
- [X] Warden of the Hearth
[X] [Champion Purpose]: What will the Champion's purpose be.
- [X] Warrior: Martial master without peer, the greatest living warrior in the company. Their duty to hold the line, to rally their fellows and defeat the greatest foes the enemy can bring to bear.
 
Given runes can apparently do anything, I'm not sure. We might be able to get pretty close. Particularly if we can use a Rune of Brotherhood with a magic using creature to give the runesmith who makes the first generation of such runes insight they could never gan in their own,
We will just have to wait and see: this is all a bit of a Longshot anyway.
But the first idea with pushing magic out of an object, as a sort of camera, at least has a direct way forward.
 
What makes you think they haven't already shown themselves to be allies by fighting alongside the dwarves? That's how the elves and dwarves met, I believe, where Caledor Dragontamer and Grimnir negotiated an alliance and then went on to defeat a daemon army, after which Grimnir gave Caledor a protective runic talisman of great power and Caledor gave him a magical crystal artifact.
Yeah. An alliance, not yet even three centuries old. Not really a good show on if they are reliable quite yet.

That Ancestor God decided to risk something for such a mighty benefit is his own prerogative, as the one of this illustrious company that steers dwarven race. Doesn't really mean we should do it just to get bit more insight into forging Runes.
 
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Let's get the Valaya Gazul commissions done, get some headway with something else, then maybe see if we can revisit the Eltharin idea.
 
Honestly, while I still want the first bit of Gromril Chains done just because of what it is and because I want to see the difficulty of the next level, it isn't so much the Akazit that has increased my interest in learning Eltharin as it is how much of Snorri's research narrative changed from the beginnings of his understanding of magic itself. And if we didn't have so much more to learn from already ready comes and the ones we haven't read yet, it would be a harder steal.

The Brana say the liquid sings with strength, obstinacy, fortitude, honour and other associated emotions. Grimnirzan, Grimnir's Blood, you recall Rudil say when he heard that. Hmph.
Considering Grimnir slew Urmskaladrak, a "Father of Dragons", there's precedent.
 
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Yeah. An alliance, not yet even three centuries old. Not really a good show on if they are reliable quite yet.

That Ancestor God decided to risk something for such a mighty benefit is his own prerogative, as the one of this illustrious company that steers dwarven race. Doesn't really mean we should do it just to get bit more insight into forging Runes.

If it's good enough for the Ancestor gods it's good enough for us. At this point you're not making a coherent point. The conservatives can't raise hell if the ancestor gods have already done something.
 
Yeah. An alliance, not yet even three centuries old. Not really a good show on if they are reliable quite yet.

That Ancestor God decided to risk something for such a mighty benefit is his own prerogative, as the one of this illustrious company that steers dwarven race. Doesn't really mean we should do it just to get bit more insight into forging Runes.

So you're saying it was a risk, that Grimnir might have been wrong?

I think that claim is what would be the literal heresy to the dwarves.

Finished runes, based on everything we know, don't give any insight into forging runes whatsoever. Otherwise every single rune that a Runesmith gives to another dwarf would be a breach of their structures. As far as Runesmiths believe, crafting runes is literally impossible for people without the right ancestors. As no elf has the right ancestor m, there's no risk here as far as they're concerned.

The only issue is whether elves are allowed to own runic items, and Grimnir has set the precedent that they are. He's even set the principle that very powerful runic items (I.e Master Runes, quite possibly Master Runes made by another Ancestor God), can be given to elven archmages.
 
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I awaken.

Rune Metal Pt. 1b should have had -4 right?
Also is the one wrong as well?
The combined total to runes of Valaya is +4, (two +2s) but the results here say +6.

These are the respective items from turn 33.
[ ] The Rune Metal Pt. 5: [Cost: (12 -1) =11 actions] Student of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc. You've done it. Adamant is now, slowly, being made from your forge! It is an achievement of your lifetime by the reckoning of most dwarfs, but yet the glittering white, purer than the freshest snow on the most isolated Mountaintop, stays in your mind. There is more still.
- [ ] Brotherhood Expertise: [Cost 10 favour from Brotherhood of Dron] Gain 1d2 progress. Can be taken multiple times and without actions. Call upon the expertise of the Brotherhood to aid in your research.

[ ] The Rune Metal Pt. 1b: [Cost: 8 actions] Student of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc. Grungni is the only dwarf in recorded history to have the skill and talent to make Gromril into a fine chain. While lesser than plate, Gromril Chainmaille can at the very least, make a dwarf even more difficult to kill for comparatively less cost, and there are of course other uses for chains of such size. Of course there is also the prestige in such an achievement.
- [ ] Brotherhood Expertise: [Cost 10 favour from Brotherhood of Dron] Gain 1 progress. Can be taken multiple times and without actions. Call upon the expertise of the Brotherhood to aid in your research.

[ ] Understand Valaya's Runes: [Cost: (12 -2) =10 actions] Student of the Odd will proc. On the basket that bears her Master Rune, Valaya or perhaps some other Runesmith put down two other Runes. You can make a guess as to their purpose, but aren't too sure. One bears a similarity to the Rune of Load-bearing, the other the Rune of Healing.

And the gains are added cumulatively to that.
Is it just me, or has soulcake been hinting at something over the last few updates?
Whatever could you mean?

It might be that removing all the winds is one way to get the result and making a strongly Chammon-aligned once-living material is another.
/shrug :^)

Apparently Snorri makes toys at a significantly faster rate than the Northern Holds combined makes new dwarves.

Wonder if this remains true if you count all of the Karaz Ankor...
It's a question of outreach and range for the North. Toys take up space that more necessary supplies otherwise would, and there are not enough foundlings to take up that supply in the first place. Now if you had an independent delivery mechanism of sorts to offer such toys to all Dwarf Children, not just the foundlings, but the girls and boys too, over the Far North...

If they are already doing that we might want to start moving on the Grimnir golem soon.
Grimnir the Slayer is not a solidified concept yet. The priests wear the crest because there isn't the context to it behind Grimnir donning it as he marched north for his ultimate sacrifice like in canon just yet, not that I think it stops them when that context is added. Basically, the Cult of Grimnir grumbling furiously about something right now if that isn't clear.

Also, I know this might be pretty radical, but are we rich enough to pay an elven alchemist-archmage to come and teach us directly using a translation rune? @soulcake, could we do a write in 'trade' for this? Even if we have to pay in runecraft it would be worth it...
To monetarily pay an elven teacher? Sure, the novelty of it alone might entice the most radical of them. Trading Runes is a no-go*.
Well Snori is a member of the House of Runelords so we can just ask the GM. @soulcake how much do we know about the Great Vortex and the elves saving the world?

There's an element of Dwarfen arrogance at play here. Who would you believe more, that some weird guys from across the sea managed to save the world or through the literal greatest sacrifice of your Warrior Diety. They're realistic enough to know that its probably both but their pride both as Dwarfs and in Grimnir tells them things are skewed in their favour.

80 years ain't that long for Elves or Dawi, and when the nature of that contact is primarily mercantile well...

... so yeah they understand academically, but they don't really understand the weight of it.

So just to clarify on the nature of your relations so far because there's been some discussion about it, there are no instances of a Runesmith, even a Journeyman, trading actual Runework to elves. Because unlike the Brana no one with the potential authority (IE a Runelord) is willing to begin such a thing, and if they do they'll be called into account by the House. Not so much for censure at least initially, but to prove the elves are worthy, and woe betide that Runelord if the Body disagrees with their assessment. You were going to have to do the same had Thungni not saved your ass by retroactively saying it's cool, and even then there were people who were grumbling about your minor bout of impudence. The timescales both races work on are long, not Lizardman long, but pretty long. 80 years ain't nothing, but it ain't something. Theoretically, the amulet Grimnir gave Caledor could count as evidence, but there's an argument to be had about whether it was for Caledor specifically or his people in general, and Grimnir didn't clarify before heading north so it's not like they can ask him. His retainers and personal companions, even Morgrim if you can reach him could say something. Thungni at the very least, is not speaking on the matter, though no one's actually gone and asked him.

The Case is there, but the question is about who's willing to risk the political fallout fighting for it, and canonically that was Snorri Whitebeard.

Grimnir got the ball rolling with Caledor, but its Snorri Whitebeard's friendship with Malekith is what greatly sped along that particular relationship, and before that happened, I imagine that, while not hostile, the Dwarfs are still weary of any outsiders. Not enough that they won't trade with them if they prove willing, but stuff like Runecraft is, despite your use of it, still a big step in terms of the relationship between both peoples. So yeah, no Runecraft.

@soulcake can we add Karstah and Nain following an increasingly confusing chain of "Oh you just missed him, I heard he was going to ____" as they try and deliver the axes to the bounty board?

Yeah I can do that.

*technically only sort of a no-go, cuz of what was just said about the whole are they worthy of it.

EDIT: Forgot Grimnir for a second, that does change things, but you're all sort of at a "will they won't they" type of situation.
 
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So just to clarify on the nature of your relations so far because there's been some discussion about it, there are no instances of a Runesmith, even a Journeyman, trading actual Runework to elves. Because unlike the Brana no one with the potential authority (IE a Runelord) is willing to begin such a thing, and if they do they'll be called into account by the House. Not so much for censure at least initially, but to prove the elves are worthy, and woe betide that Runelord if the Body disagrees with their assessment. You were going to have to do the same had Thungni not saved your ass by retroactively saying it's cool, and even then there were people who were grumbling about your minor bout of impudence. The timescales both races work on are long, not Lizardman long, but pretty long. 80 years ain't nothing, but it ain't something.

Did Grimnir's exchange of runework for the Crystal of Fire not happen in this continuity? That was the symbol of the alliance that He struck with Caledor when Caledor told him about the Polar Gates in canon.
 
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It took Armour Runes, by all that you knew only Gromril could manage such a thing, and yet here it was. Aye, the Armour Rune was running at about half its normal strength, the wood only just managing to bring out the power coursing through it.
To be honest, I'm a bit confused by these sentences. Are there armor runes that can only be placed on Gromril? Or is it true that all armor runes can only be placed on Gromril? The latter doesn't seem accurate given that we have seen, I believe at least, steel armor being inscribed with runes. Is it supposed to be metal that can only manage the inscription of armor runes on them?
 
Did Grimnir's exchange of runework for the Crystal of Fire not happen in this continuity? That was the symbol of the alliance that He struck with Caledor when Caledor told him about the Polar Gates in canon.
Edited that in literally seconds later because it lapsed by mind, but here's what I added on.

Theoretically, the amulet Grimnir gave Caledor could count as evidence, but there's an argument to be had about whether it was for Caledor specifically or his people in general, and Grimnir didn't clarify before heading north so it's not like they can ask him. His retainers and personal companions, even Morgrim if you can reach him could say something. Thungni at the very least, is not speaking on the matter, though no one's actually gone and asked him.

The Case is there, but the question is about who's willing to risk the political fallout fighting for it, and canonically that was Snorri Whitebeard.
 
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To be honest, I'm a bit confused by these sentences. Are there armor runes that can only be placed on Gromril? Or is it true that all armor runes can only be placed on Gromril? The latter doesn't seem accurate given that we have seen, I believe at least, steel armor being inscribed with runes. Is it supposed to be metal that can only manage the inscription of armor runes on them?
This is a detail from way early in the quest but yeah it takes Gromril, the runes won't go on anything else. The steel stuff presumably had the runes etched on Gromril plates or something similar.
 
To be honest, I'm a bit confused by these sentences. Are there armor runes that can only be placed on Gromril? Or is it true that all armor runes can only be placed on Gromril? The latter doesn't seem accurate given that we have seen, I believe at least, steel armor being inscribed with runes. Is it supposed to be metal that can only manage the inscription of armor runes on them?
If I remember correctly, it's that it either has to be placed on Gromril/Gromril adjacent material or inscribed on armor with Gromril. Might be confusing my canons though.
 
If it's good enough for the Ancestor gods it's good enough for us. At this point you're not making a coherent point. The conservatives can't raise hell if the ancestor gods have already done something.
The difference is that Ancestor Gods know what the fuck they are doing. Just because they decide they should do something does not mean the same extends to the rest of their race. I was also pointing out the difference between giving away one rune object to a king on occassion of beginning of great alliance as token of goodwill. It is another to give stuff away willy nilly to further personal research. The scale of the reason is nowhere near each other. Not even really comparable.
 
Well time t-

*Sees Soulcake's newest post*

...Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-

Now if you had an independent delivery mechanism of sorts to offer such toys to all Dwarf Children, not just the foundlings, but the girls and boys too, over the Far North...

ALRIGHT LADS! TIME TO MAKE THIS OUR NEW OBJECTIVE! BUILD A FREAKING FACILITY TO PRODUCE A FUCK-TON OF TOYS FOR EVERY DWARF IN THE NORTH!

WE ARE GOING TO GET THAT SANTA KLAUS TITLE IF IT'S THE LAST THING WE DO!
 
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