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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:

I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Not really, Ancestors and possibly Yorri aside, I think we only know one dwarf whos over 1000 in this quest, the head of the Karka Drakk blacksmithing guild. Possibly Gemlin and some other Runelords we met from Brotherhood of Drom.
So while its more possible in this time period its still misleading to say imply that its in anyway common.
Snorri's mother got over a 1000, and she's not from a Runesmith Clan.
The eldest of Clan Winterhearth, when Snerra had her Kumenought, was 1200.
I don't think we know Moira's exact age, but she's older than Snorri and we're pushing 900, so she's likely over 1000.

So not common, exactly, but not rare either.
 
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Snorri's mother got over a 1000, and she's not from a Runesmithing Clan.
The eldest of Clan Winterhearth, when Snerra had her Kumenought, was 1200.
I don't think we know Moira's exact age, but she's older than Snorri and we're pushing 900, so she's likely over 1000.

So not common, exactly, but not rare either.
Most dwarfs that age end up saying "yeah, my work here is done" and go to the underearth.
I think Snorri's mother's "work pending" was:
-Jorri being less of a Rockhead (managed at 6-700)
-Snorri's heart starting to heal from the loss of his wife (Karstah).
 
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@soulcake : Are we ever going to get an explanation for Snorri's 20 year apprenticeship? That is quicker than apprentices are allowed to make their first rune. Maybe Yori has some sort of weird time runes that he hasn't considered Snorri worthy of yet? Or maybe Snorri just has a habit of downplaying the fact that he is a prodigy among prodigies.
Judging by character creation post, Snorri's apprenticeship lasted only 20 years and the timing of the runelord promotion, independent of which master was picked.
 
Not really, Ancestors and possibly Yorri aside, I think we only know one dwarf whos over 1000 in this quest, the head of the Karka Drakk blacksmithing guild. Possibly Gemlin and some other Runelords we met from Brotherhood of Drom.
I mean, have you also considered these:
I mean, Snorri's mother and Moira are also 1000+.
There was also i think one stonemason of that age, i think one ranger, the entire Grimnir's retinue when the throng marches clearing out the mountains is described by Snorri like "truly ancient" so i think it is safe to assume they have been over a thousand too (probably much closer to two).

EDIT: Ninja'd. Also, i can't believe i forgot Alrik Thungnisonn.
 
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I mean, have you also considered these:

There was also i think one stonemason of that age, i think one ranger, the entire Grimnir's retinue when the throng marches clearing out the mountains is described by Snorri like "truly ancient" so i think it is safe to assume they have been over a thousand too (probably much closer to two).

EDIT: Ninja'd. Also, i can't believe i forgot Alrik Thungnisonn.
There's also our other possible masters: we've me Gottri Hammerspite during campaign with Grimnir's grand Throng.
Its likely that those runelords are as old as Yorri. Iirc, Ankgra twentyloops was Thungni's youngest. (though don't quote me on that... I may be misremembering)

EDIT: its in the op...
 
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There's also our other possible masters: we've me Gottri Hammerspite during campaign with Grimnir's grand Throng.
Its likely that those runelords are as old as Yorri. Iirc, Ankgra twentyloops was Thungni's youngest. (though don't quote me on that... I may be misremembering)
I mostly mentioned Alrik because he is bound to be like, close or maybe even over two millenia, otherwise i tried to cherrypick non-runelord characters we have actually met or talked about in updates, because thats what i was running with in my original argument. But yeah, most of those would be well over thousand.
 
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So not common, exactly, but not rare either.
Sure thats fine, I feel like you think my position is something different that what it actually is: I see living to 1000 as a dwarf in this period about the same as living to 100 IRL.
I don't know why you're focusing on runesmiths, do we have a source that explains they live longer or something?
Keep in mind I said:
So while its more possible in this time period its still misleading to say imply that its in anyway common.
So... not common. We agree?

the entire Grimnir's retinue
These are your example of ordinary dwarves who managed it?
 
Well, they aren't Runesmiths. Incidentally, @soulcake, is it possible for a Runesmith to end up as a King or Thane's Honorguard?
I think Grimnirs personal retinue is a more exclusive club than being a Runesmith. Not to mention it's self selecting for age. Runesmiths go through apprentices, Grimnirs retinue is the elders who don't slow him down too much.
Also again:
I don't know why you're focusing on runesmiths, do we have a source that explains they live longer or something?
 
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I don't know why you're focusing on runesmiths, do we have a source that explains they live longer or something?
Yeah, we do:
You see Snerra among the bundle of 40 or so beardlings who were participating this year, right at the end of the line standing before the Eldest members of Clan Winterhearth. You were not among them, despite your age, because Runesmith Clans, to their pride, tended to have very old dwarfs be far more common than usual, regardless of their possession of The Gift.
 
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Again
These are your example of ordinary dwarves who managed it?
Yes, because they are not connected to the glimmering realm. Both the quest and the canon seem to imply runesmiths(and therefore runelords) tend to live longer. Considering their connection to runes is the only thing that could be doing it, i assume its that. So Grimnirs retinue are "normal dwarfs", carrying on through pure stubborness and perceived unfinished business. Which is what i said in one of the first posts of this exchange.

So if a "normal" dwarf of our time can live as long as the most esteemed runelord to live in the times of quest canon, i don't think its unfair to assume that those among the ranks of legendary runelords of our time will live far longer than even that.


Q. How long do dwarfs live in this quest?
A. Dwarfs in the Time of the Ancestors and the Golden Age tend to live longer than their future descendants for a variety of reasons. Its not uncommon for regular dwarfs to reach their sixth century, which in turn has raised the age to be considered an Elder/Greatbeard and Living Ancestor. Runesmiths are similarly long-lived, with some of the greatest smiths alive being part of Thungni's first wave of original students. These are ancient Runelords who are well beyond a millennium in age.
Its even in the goddamn FAQ. Runesmiths live long.
 
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That dwarfs live basically indefinitely as long as they are stubborn enough and have a big enough commitment that they believe they need to see through.
Nobody is denying that spherical dwarves in a vacuum live extremely long lives.
My point is that most dwarves do not have the chance to live out that full life because of illness or a mine collapse or a beastman attack or whatever. Therefore saying that all dwarves can live extremely long lives is misleading.
So while its more possible in this time period its still misleading to say imply that its in anyway common.
 
Nobody is denying that spherical dwarves in a vacuum live extremely long lives.
My point is that most dwarves do not have the chance to live out that full life because of illness or a mine collapse or a beastman attack or whatever. Therefore saying that all dwarves can live extremely long lives is misleading.
Okay, and how is any of this refuting the fact that Snorri has a shot at living well beyond 2 millenia? Because thats what this entire thing is about and you keep miring into it way too deep, which is why i provided evidence of canon characters and quest canon characters to illustrate that runelords do, in fact, live that long in our times? Because i am getting kinda real tired of repeating myself.

Normal dwarfs can achieve age well beyond millenium, as evidenced by enough characters we met being that age. Runesmiths tend to live longer than normal dwarfs on average, so if the exceptional cases of "normal" if very stubborn dwarfs live that long, it is fairly logical to assume that the equally stubborn Runesmiths will live even longer. This is the only thing i was trying to point out.

Which ties back into the original "Even if Snorri could die of old age, he would most likely outlive this quest anyway" thing i was saying in the first place.
 
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Okay, and how is any of this refuting the fact that Snorri has a shot at living well beyond 2 millenia? Because thats what this entire thing is about and you keep miring into it way too deep, which is why i provided evidence of canon characters and quest canon characters to illustrate that runelords do, in fact, live that long in our times? Because i am getting kinda real tired of repeating myself.

Normal dwarfs can achieve age well beyond millenium, as evidenced by enough characters we met being that age. Runesmiths tend to live longer than normal dwarfs on average, so if the exceptional cases of "normal" if very stubborn dwarfs live that long, it is fairly logical to assume that the equally stubborn Runesmiths will live even longer.
WTF did I write?
Kragg is absolutely not normal. However the relevant thing is that soulcake has said Snorri won't die of old age so the important question assuming we don't mess up is how long soulcake will be able to run before life circumstances means that he can't apply so much time to keeping it running.
Did you read the same post that I thought I posted? Or just stop at the first sentence?
WoG is that Snorri cannot die of old age. Because that would probably be a shit way to end the quest.
Snorri can live to be 10 millenia never mind 2. The question is will we fuck up and get him killed first, and will soulcake still be around to run the quest.
And I stand by the argument that Kragg isn't normal.
 
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Erm, I remember Snorri meeting an 1500 old innkeeper in KaK.

The first council of Kraka Drakk had multiple 1000+ non-runelord characters.

Age is a bit more elastic for dwarfs than one would think, especially in the Golden Age, and super especially if they think there are things still to be done.

The above goes doubly for runesmiths (and maybe for direct descendensts of Ancestor Gods).
 
Can someone else explain whats going on? Because I'm totally lost.
Well... I can certainly try?

The original post that started the contention, in summary, that Snorri dying of old age is a long way away given that Kragg the Grim is over 1400 years old and in the current age we have regular non-magical dwarves living past 1,000.

The next couple bits are about what constitutes a normal dwarf compared to a runesmith and citations depicting that runesmiths do tend to live longer than other dwarves. During this section, there seems to be a bit of a divergence regarding whether it is common or not for dwarves to reach 1000 which it seems everyone agrees is that it is not common, but runesmiths are more likely to reach the age of 1000.

Then there seems to be a major disconnect between where one is saying that all types of dwarves can live past 1000 and one person saying that such a claim is misleading because dwarves die due to disease or mine collapse. Which was just weird because "Can" does not equal "Does."

Which spawned a circular track to the same argument about whether dwarves can live past 1,000 and the claim that due to Snorri's MC status he won't die of old age, which was then refuted by a claim that the original argument was with the understanding that Snorri could live long without such author's fiat. Which wasn't actually in the original post that spawned this argument, but the original post doesn't make much sense without the understanding of ignoring the Author's fiat in this regard.

So, we are basically back to where we started.
 
@soulcake Why doesn't Snorri wear Barak Azamar 24/7?
Social reasons: visiting the king while wearing armor has a very different tone to it.
Hugging daughteru wearing armour with skin of stone... Not fun.
Sometimes it's just plain inappropriate, like going to visit a friend.

It would be a statement: i am so scared of the world, i wear an impenetrable suit of armour all the time.

Plus, it can't be all that comfy. Sure, it fits like a glove. A heavy, rather stiff glove.
 
Social reasons: visiting the king while wearing armor has a very different tone to it.
Hugging daughteru wearing armour with skin of stone... Not fun.
Sometimes it's just plain inappropriate, like going to visit a friend.

It would be a statement: i am so scared of the world, i wear an impenetrable suit of armour all the time.

Plus, it can't be all that comfy. Sure, it fits like a glove. A heavy, rather stiff glove.
Its noted in the update itself. Snorri doesn't want to develop a dependency on it.
Tirelessness is an asset that has a time and place, and it should be used at need, not used as a crutch so he does not need to feel pain or fatigue.
 
@soulcake, given that in the update against the Shard Dragon had you writing something about Bara and her rune-staff, might I ask what rune-staffs are good for, other than as a (my assumption) channel for runesmiths to rune-cast / dispel and a long-ish two-handed hammer? And are they (rune-staff) considered Banners, Talismans, or Weapon?
 
All I am getting from these arguments is that we need to upload soulcake's mind into a gronti asap so he does not die before snorri does and keeps the quest going :V
 
Continuity check please
Hearthguard candidate

Balik Khazadsson.



Accounting for the variation in the number of drinks consumed, and what precisely those drinks contained, the answers for an individual asking after Balik Khazadsson was surprisingly consistent. He was an excellent dwarf to know. Trustworthy, reliable, a natural mediator and very lucky to have been admitted to the engineers guild as an orphan, and stay a member of said guild. It just that his ideas were a bit radical, well a lot radical, well not at all radical as that was master so and so's idea Balik was proving worked. Balik just didn't seem to understand other dwarfs priorities. You know, the basics that most beardlings learn at the knee of their parents, pity about that odd lisp he had.



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Balik had first come to the attention of the guild of engineers in Kraka Drakk somewhere around the tender age of 25. The issue had arisen when two younger dwarves from the foundling halls had argued over one of Master Snorri's toy bolt launchers. Balik had offered to mediate at first, then to take the toy himself and replace it with a new one each. In deference to an older dwarf providing guidance to reach an equitable solution, they agreed.



That he managed to do so untrained, revealed a fantastic touch with both siege weapons and replicating a masters work, impressed the engineer who caught him doing it. That he had borrowed said engineers workshop and tools without asking, made a mess and blunted his third favourite number seven chisel, did not. Nor did Balik's lack of understanding as to why this might be a problem. Balik solved the problem of arguing dwarfs, Hadn't he? No dwarf was hurt, and it was unlikely they would fight over that particular toy again, so what was the problem?



This resulted in an explanation about respecting property, paying attention to elders and just how talented he was to do what he had just done. He was then offered an apprenticeship in engineering and basic dwarf social norms to hopefully keep him out of trouble. Balik happily accepted. It was only partially successful.



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Balik quickly proved himself a capable dwarf and seemingly could replicate anything put in front of him. He could even make small simplifications that the oldest dwarves were eventually forced to call improvements. Well if you squinted and turned your head but had best be tested for at least another fifty years to be sure.



Balik's other major talent was resolving conflicts, mediating disputes and broadly getting dwarves to stop and listen to each other. Usually, by asking a question that revealed his ignorance and forcing other dwarves to explain what was happening in detail. This often led to the dwarves doing the explanation reconsidering precisely what the argument was about. What he was less good at was following advice like "Leave Master Dwain and Fili's Argument about fish alone. Yes, it's annoying that they block the main walkway, but our Grumbling will eventually get to them, and they will settle it."



A typical dwarf in his position, when faced with the dispute between Master Dwain and Fili would have a word with another apprentice, who would have a word with yet another apprentice. This would be discussed over drinks with his friends and would be overheard by some select other Master Engineers, who would then have a word with a few more Masters. Then both Master Dwain and Master Fili would be taken aside and have it pointed out how silly they were being and to go and get a longbeard to review both designs.



Balik building his own rod by combining Dwain and Fili's modifications and catching a significantly bigger fish than either might have been a bit of a radical solution if left to rumour and never fully acknowledged. A discrete word about an apprentice who outdid both by combining their work and perhaps they had better stop arguing so much and instead focus on proving that they were masters would have probably worked, been discrete and been proper.



Taking said rod and fish to the tavern Dwain and Filli where carefully ignoring each other in, dropping both on the bar and loudly proclaiming to the stunned silence how great their improvements worked and could he have some more tips was extreme. It did work killing the dispute between the masters stone dead. Or that could have been the laughter of every other Dwarf in the tavern at the looks on Dwain and Fillis faces.





After the laughter had calmed slightly in the face of Balik's politely puzzled expression, Dwain and Filli pointed out fifteen separate flaws in the rod, commented it was indeed a big fish and then stated confidently that that Dwain had left a Bolt Hurler strung and they had better get on with fixing that. Then both Dwain and Fili walked to the door, their bearing showing all the dignity of a master engineer out to fix a small oversight. They stepped into the street, checked both ways to make sure no one was looking and dashed out of sight, the memory of the sound of laughter enough to chase them all the way back to their workshops.



Back in their respective workshops, both found themselves thinking similar thoughts about the fish, the rod and the flaws, that each saw. Indeed, there was room for improvement. What else would you expect from a beardling of only fifty years? As for design, there was nothing that couldn't be traced back to ether Fili or Dwain or the guild approved base design. Nor could they argue that it was an inferior rod than either had made alone, even a beardling could see the improvement Balik had made. Filli and Dwain's problem was the resulting rod used ideas from that other fool. Both were masters of their crafts, dedicated to the ideal of improving their work, and if that's what a beardling could do what could they do together? That shared thought warred with dwarfish stubbornness and pride, but the first chink in the feud between them had been formed.

Further chinks occurred as their friends and acquaintances seemed to want to discuss fish or fishing rods with a particularly knowing look in their eyes. Dwain and Fili did not. The end result was a significant reduction in the number of trips to taverns or other places where Dwain and Fili's drinking could be interrupted by those Wazzocks. This was accompanied by a significant increase in impromptu lessons and other acts of showing the Beardlings hanging around the Guildhall that the Masters know what they were doing.

This turned into late nights at the Guildhall as they found themselves simultaneously avoiding interactions and wanting another look at the rod that Master Otri had "kindly" borrowed from Balik and hung in the main hall. Their first non-hostile talk in decades was in front of that fishing rod with both of them tentatively deciding that the Beardling had "it" and perhaps a few insights could be gleaned.



This led to actual politeness and then a deliberate collaboration with the only other Dwarf seriously thinking about engineering work, rather than the Wazzocks making jokes about fish. That Wazzock calling himself a master Otri should really work on his whip and pulley design rather than Laugh at Engineers actually working. Dwain's braiding method for the line and Fili's spinner design had been included in the Beardlings rod and were where Otris contributions? Peace was restored to the guild, Dwain and Fili stopped blocking the corridor with their argument's.



Six months later, Dwain and Fili disappeared together for a week to test a rod they had jointly developed and returned with several truly enormous fish. Their prizes were displayed, alongside the improved Fishing rod, in the Guildhall just along the corridor where Otri had to walk to reach the Main Hall.



Rumours that they had settled their differences by some sort of fish-based duel were obviously false. Fili and Dwain had of course, talked it out like rational dwarves. No self-respecting Master would go after each other with a freshly caught fish like a Garazi, no matter how senior the Ranger that apparently caught them at it insisted it was true.



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Dwain and Fili, fairly or not, got the blame for putting the idea in Balik's head that he could just bring any revision he wanted to the senior guild members attention. A typical dwarf goes through a period of intensive testing, building multiple prototypes and collecting a great deal of wealth influence and favour before approaching a senior guild member. Balik's method, to most of his targets consternation, was of walking into the Guildhall or targets favourite pub, dropping the project on the high table and going "How do I improve this combination of your ideas with the Honourable Master that you don't get along with ideas?"



Grumbling started to grow in taverns around Kraka Drakk and in the back rooms of the Guildhall. Wary eyes were kept on the door just in case Balik came in. Once was funny twice was ok but when it was Balik doing it to the former heckler, it wasn't amusing, after all those other dwarfs would laugh. A minor push to have Balik expelled from the guild for disrespecting his elders and reckless experimentation was quietly shot down. Firstly for dwarfs not put on the spot this was quite entertaining to watch. Dwain and Fili, in particular, were both very happy to have the love spread around widely. Other victims wanted to see Honourable master so and so receive his comeuppance too. Secondly, Balik had a confused air about himself as if he really didn't understand what he was doing wrong. He seemed to want to build and well he wouldn't be the first Dwarf to lose himself in a project and not stop to consider if it was sensible rather than if it was possible. That's what elders were for, to mitigate that sort of thinking. Finally, Balik was just that much of a prodigy. His latest Bolt Hurler was almost on par with a Jouneydwarf of a half century. Not that they would tell him that, pity about the weird addition of a barbed bolt and winder unit to retrieve it getting in the way of efficient operation. Why would any dwarf need a harpoon launcher?



Still, rumblings continued and it was eventually agreed that Balik Khazadsson was talented enough to not completely shame Kraka Drakk's engineer's guild if he want out and did a few jobs here and there. The hold reclamation in the north was into the second phase with the underway recovered and the holds with survivors reclaimed. There were a lot of heavily armed dwarves around able to offer him assistance if he got into trouble. The work would give some good experience and help show the engineering guilds commitment in sending out their newest prodigy. Besides, it had been ages since anyone in the guild had been able to have a proper Grumble without it being interrupted by Balik.



Therefore on Morgrim's day in 172 AP a seventy year old Balik Khazadsson was acknowledged as a journeyman engineer of Kraka Drakk in good standing, Given a cart full of new tools and a goat to pull it and sent out into the world to make a name for himself. He was also discreetly informed that the good standing he was currently in would decrease shortly if he didn't go and journey away from them for a bit. Balik took the news with an air of surprise and pleasure that almost covered the hurt in his eye at losing another home.



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Balik Kazadsson's Journeying took him north to the newly recovered Dwarf holds and beyond, and saw him talking to just about every sort of Dwarf. It also resulted in a trail of ruffled beards and frayed plats. Nevertheless, his disruptions would also result in an overall reduction in arguments in the communities he passed through. Here a small offshoot of a mining clan would have a series of carts upgraded, and two brothers would be talking to each other again for the first time in decades. Unfortunately, the subject, for the next few years at least would be of how the beardling engineer had upset things. Over there a forestry operation would have the kinks worked out of a timber sawhouse and the crane made far safer. The engineer who made it all possible was politely excluded from the clan celebration. A group of rangers would commission him to prepare earthworks for the next stage of the reclamation. They would leave with little more than a nod of thanks and the agreed payment as they moved on to the next target.



The true rewards he received from his labours where usually heartfelt thanks discreetly given by perceptive elders and discreet small treasures. On more than one occasion he would find a few loves of the good stonebread or a small keg of the really good ale hidden in his goat drawn wagon. From the rangers and other more military inclined dwarfs he received lessons in stealth tracking and other things a journey dwarf in hostile terrain would find useful. But those lessons couldn't last forever, and Balik would be again left with his cart and goat and his lonely search for the next Dwarf to help.



These same dwarves would return to places like Karak Drakk and over a few drinks, tell of their adventures. More than a few engineers stated that Balik hadn't changed a bit after listening to one particularly offended long beard tell the story of his interaction with Balik.



The Rangers Balik had been travelling with were tracking a group of trolls suspected of operating out of a former dwarven mine. Initial scouting had determined the trolls had taken the living quarters and probably eaten the family that had once owned the mine. A direct assault was risky, but there was a collapsed tunnel that could be recovered if enough pit props could be quickly made.



The Journeyman engineer in question had prepared for the assault by assembling an extensive collection of temporary pit props. If Balik had followed Master Otri's already radical design and carefully smoothed and squared timbers, there would have been less grumbling. It would have taken more time put the rangers at risk, but there would have been less grumbling. Balik saved time and increased productivity by precisely cutting the contact surfaces and leaving everything else, bark, leaves and all. What was worse was that he followed up by demonstrating their worth and ease of use in a fast install by propping and securing a partially collapsed mineshaft far ahead of schedule. That the unconventional props allowed the rangers to flank the trolls, had impressed and frustrated the long beard in equal measure.



Master Fili had plied the longbeard with Drink and asked for more details about the props used. A sketch later and Master Fili was crowing to the bar that Balin had proven his design for emergency props worked. This was followed by Master Otri demanding to see the sketch and then declaring Fili blind as it was clearly based on the work done by Master Durin. Then Master Dwain demanded to see the drawing…



By the end of the evening, there were three things every Dwarf there agreed on. The longbeard ranger was a good sort to have kept an eye out for Balik. That Balik was doing ok for himself and not disgracing the engineer's guild. And that they would have to come back tomorrow to debate the true origin of Balik's pit prop over another barrel of Folgis Strange brew.



Similar stories tricked back to Karak Drakk over the Decades. Many grumbles were heard in 177 AP on the vague topic of spears for Hunting should not be cut down and mounted on a miniature bolt thrower with a rope attached to allow for more effective retrieval. No matter how effective it was for fishing without getting wet, at least once the sights had been adjusted with Master Snorri "Silvereye's" Refractive sight.



In 182 AP, an argument about the proper use of harpoon launchers to assemble a temporary rope bridge across a flooding canyon ended with several engineers temporarily banned from the central market Bryggeroot tavern. Fili and Dwain had both built slightly different scale models of the scenario. Fili's demonstrated that the risky method reported to the guild that Balik had employed was safer than it looked. Dwain's made it seem much more dangerous. It is worth noting that neither had been to that part of the north and the critical point to the debate was the exact braiding method that Balik used to create the rope.



In 186 AP, the answer to the braiding method Balik used was proven definitively. Balik captured an exceptionally large troll by striking it with a harpoon and winching it up, resulting in the Troll being suspended in mid air and unable to move. As far as the gossips at the engineers guild were concerned, the cord suspending the live Troll was the most exciting part. The caravan saved by Balik had managing to transport the live Troll back to Kraka Drakk or that the Giftgiver himself wanted the Troll for something was secondary distractions at best. Fili was vindicated and wouldn't shut up about it for nearly a month. Then Otri started to make fairly unsubtle comments about Fishing rods.



188 AP was a year of pride and anxiety as Boggri Groundbreaker had encountered and commissioned Balik to fortify a section of remote farmland that were rumoured to hold some fascinating plants. Much celebration was had at the Market tavern later in the year. Balik had gotten only a lesser frown from the Living ancestor for his work, and Dwain and Fili were finally allowed back into the tavern instead of having to stand outside to drink.



189 AP a year of anxiety. Balik had run into Morgrim himself and went so far as to ask for clarification on something. It was sort of alright for Balik to do it to dwarves he knew but to the ancestor himself? The guild would never live it down. Dwain, Fili, Otri and Snorri, in particular, made a decent attempt to drink the hold dry in their distress. Ironically they would have been far happier had they actually heard Morgrim's explanation. That Balik's Harpoon bolt thrower was on par with what he expected from a dwarf of 400. Balik was also given a small device that, when correctly fitted allowed him to hear what a typical dwarf would. Finally, Dwarf speech made sense to Balik.



In 190 AP the office holding letters for journeying dwarfs out and away from the hold had to start a second box to contain the correspondence awaiting Balik's return. Nothing in the box was deemed urgent enough to hire a Branna to find Balik and get him back immediately. The final letter placed in the box was from a set of brothers apologising for rudeness years ago. They also want on to ask about the viability of a winch system to go with some carts he had built. The Dwarf on mail sorting duty grunted with approval. It seemed like Balik was finally sorting himself out. Might be worth a drink to go and Bother Master Fili with the news



In 191 AP one of Grimnirs companions, now following Morgrim, left a letter for MASTER Balik Kazadsson. The Dwarf on duty at the Guildhall just about managed not to make a complete fool of himself in offering to hold it until Balik came past again. Much debate and Drinking ensued in the Guildhall. It was eventually agreed that a message would be needed to remind Balik of dates. It would be quite embarrassing for an acknowledged Master to not to arrive for his one year post mastery celebration because he had forgotten. Oh and add that he needed to pick up his mail while he was here.

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Balik Kazadsson was surprised to find himself practically ambushed by Master Engineers Fili and Dwain outside Karak Drakk in early spring. Balik was presented with several sheets of paper documenting his bolt launcher and informed that his masterwork had, of course, been accepted. Still, the documentation had been damaged since by a bearding or a large rat or something. The issue right now was for him to attend his one year anniversary Feast tonight. The documentation needed to be settled and, as it was happening tonight and they needed a copy to show the Guildhall immediately he had better get writing. Stunned Balik complied.

The masterwork displayed in the Guildhall was not truly a fraud, Dwain had argued while setting it up. All the components of the masterpiece were things that Balik had worked on and sent back or left behind. He had just helped it along a little with assembly.

That said Dwain was pleased to remove the somewhat questionable device. Balik had been building his own and had brought almost all the pieces. Swapping two sieges weapons six dwarfs high in a room being set up for a feast without being noticed was infinitely more comfortable than deliberately misleading a dwarf. Just, couldn't the new Master have avoided drilling all these extra holes in it. What did a bolt rower need an additional winch for and why did the cable need to play out just here. He wasn't still messing around with that fishing harpoon idea, was he?



Hours later a still stunned Balik was nursing a mug of beer in a discrete corner of the hall as Master Otri explained the situation to him. Of course, Balik was a master now. The alternative was to tell Ancestor Mogrim that he made a mistake addressing a letter. Besides if there was one who was qualified to declare Balik a Master it was Mogrim himself. All this was just sorting out the paperwork. Dwain and Fili had volunteered to educate him on the master level secrets of the Kraka Drakk Guild, and that shouldn't take more than a year. Oh and here was his held correspondence and here was an unopened message from Mogrim himself. Better read that right away, good lad.



To Balik's surprise, it was not a letter from Mogrim. It was merely from one of Grimnirs Companions he had talked to about their duties as part of Mogrim's throng. It offered some interesting insights and advice nevertheless.



<><>-<><>​



Balik's return to the Kraka Drakk Guildhall was met with a lot more smoothness than any had expected. Baiik finally seemed to get those social hints hidden in the Grunts that the masters had tried to give him before and now was much more tolerable. His deft touch sorting out dwarves had sharpened as well, somehow got master Kili to have a civil conversation with Master Fili. This feat had not happened since Kili lost his arm to a dragon ogre back in the siege. Of course part of that was the Gift Giver relacing the lost arm and Balik's undisguised fascination with the arm. Hadn't there been a challenge for the engineer's guild to match the Runesmiths work? Balik might be thinking of taking the challenge up and leaving this silly harpoon idea behind what with the number of times he was seen examining one of the prosthetics.



In the year 193 AP Snoori Klausson, the Gift Giver, established his Hearthguard.
 
@soulcake, given that in the update against the Shard Dragon had you writing something about Bara and her rune-staff, might I ask what rune-staffs are good for, other than as a (my assumption) channel for runesmiths to rune-cast / dispel and a long-ish two-handed hammer? And are they (rune-staff) considered Banners, Talismans, or Weapon?
An auspicious question...

Rune Staffs use Talismanic Runes or Banner Runes rather than Weapon Runes for one thing (in this quest at least). They're a different medium for casting Runes, and can serve as a weapon in a pinch. The tradition for them is more prevalent the more south you go, where the Old Holds and their Runesmiths possess both the resources and knowledge to make Runes or Rune Combos better suited to uh "Casting." Long story short, they're dedicated casting tools, whose Runes/ Combos are focused more on the effect they cast rather than what they do to the tool in question. Snorri casting Wrath and Ruin is a neat and useful side benefit of casting the Runes he possesses on his person at any given time. A Rune Staff is ultimately just a medium for those Runes, it's just that it shows that's what it's for.

If I had a square form this would be funnier IMO but it'll do. >_>

Purpose Purist: A Rune Staff is for Runes made for CastingPurpose Neutral: A Rune Staff has Runes that can be Cast on itPurpose Rebel: A Rune Staff has Runes on it.
Form Purist: A Rune Staff is a staffA Staff inscribed with Runes made for more Casting is a Rune StaffA Banner is a Rune StaffA Rune inscribed beatstick is a Rune Staff
Form Neutral: A Rune Staff is a handheld objectA Talisman made for Casting Runes is a Rune StaffA Greathammer is a Rune StaffA Rune Inscribed Pan is a Rune Staff
Form Rebel: A Rune Staff is anything with Runes for Casting on itAn Anvil of Doom (Canonical) is a Rune StaffA Talisman is a Rune StaffA Gronti is a Rune Staff

Continuity check please

Ill give it my best shot with the time I have.
Balik had first come to the attention of the guild of engineers in Kraka Drakk somewhere around the tender age of 25. The issue had arisen when two younger dwarves from the foundling halls had argued over one of Master Snorri's toy bolt launchers. Balik had offered to mediate at first, then to take the toy himself and replace it with a new one each. In deference to an older dwarf providing guidance to reach an equitable solution, they agreed.

That he managed to do so untrained, revealed a fantastic touch with both siege weapons and replicating a masters work, impressed the engineer who caught him doing it. That he had borrowed said engineers workshop and tools without asking, made a mess and blunted his third favourite number seven chisel, did not. Nor did Balik's lack of understanding as to why this might be a problem. Balik solved the problem of arguing dwarfs, Hadn't he? No dwarf was hurt, and it was unlikely they would fight over that particular toy again, so what was the problem?

This resulted in an explanation about respecting property, paying attention to elders and just how talented he was to do what he had just done. He was then offered an apprenticeship in engineering and basic dwarf social norms to hopefully keep him out of trouble. Balik happily accepted. It was only partially successful.
Prodigy I can take maybe, but such norms would be taught by the Cult of Valaya. At 25 he wouldn't be this socially Inept out of ignorance is what I'm saying.
Balik quickly proved himself a capable dwarf and seemingly could replicate anything put in front of him. He could even make small simplifications that the oldest dwarves were eventually forced to call improvements. Well if you squinted and turned your head but had best be tested for at least another fifty years to be sure.
If this is implied to be done privately and in their own minds then this is acceptable.

The rest I wanna say is arguably a little too fortuitous for him? Might just be a weird first impression, maybe show off his flaws more there, but that's more subjective I'd say.
189 AP a year of anxiety. Balik had run into Morgrim himself and went so far as to ask for clarification on something. It was sort of alright for Balik to do it to dwarves he knew but to the ancestor himself? The guild would never live it down. Dwain, Fili, Otri and Snorri, in particular, made a decent attempt to drink the hold dry in their distress. Ironically they would have been far happier had they actually heard Morgrim's explanation. That Balik's Harpoon bolt thrower was on par with what he expected from a dwarf of 400. Balik was also given a small device that, when correctly fitted allowed him to hear what a typical dwarf would. Finally, Dwarf speech made sense to Balik.
Morgrim I feel like, you've made him a bit too open. There would be grunting, there would be gesturing, and a few mathematical equations thrown about but somehow Balik would know what Morgrim meant maybe possibly he isn't sure. The hearing aid I can see maybe, but it'd very mysteriously appear by his bedside or something one morning.
In 191 AP one of Grimnirs companions, now following Morgrim, left a letter for MASTER Balik Kazadsson. The Dwarf on duty at the Guildhall just about managed not to make a complete fool of himself in offering to hold it until Balik came past again. Much debate and Drinking ensued in the Guildhall. It was eventually agreed that a message would be needed to remind Balik of dates. It would be quite embarrassing for an acknowledged Master to not to arrive for his one year post mastery celebration because he had forgotten. Oh and add that he needed to pick up his mail while he was here.
This I would find hilarious. If you make it more a hint that this was a deliberate choice it'd work(because you don't get that old and not know, well that and Dwarfs usually introduce themselves by rank)

Im under the impression that this is from a third person perspective recounting his life, and that Balik's weirdness and impropriety is due to him being born with a bit of minor deafness but there's a lot of disbelief present until the payoff. I'll tentatively accept the idea? Not sure on how much of his background I'd make canon but a prodigal engineer with a weird background interested in the prosthetics made by the Gift Giver isn't out of question. Just let me know if you want the first post threadmarked or if you'll repost it outside spoilers.
 
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