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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:

I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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The world blowing up didn't kill Gotrek. He tanks city levelling blows in Age of Sigmar and picks up an axe that kills most Fyreslayers that even try to touch it.
 
Clan Ancestor first. Start with a sturdy foundation lads, we've no way of knowing if such a thing increases workload or not, and if it does it'll be long years before we chew through our research slate.
We are radical in some ways, and traditional in some ways, but the two things that stand out most about us are our Inter-Runelord Cooperation and Inter-Guild Cooperation tendencies. We have a care for prospective Runelords you see:

1- Are they working diligently to improve their Clan
2- Are they working diligently to improve their Hold
3- Are they working diligently to improve the Karaz Ankor
4- Through their works, are they exposing fellow dwarves to avoidable risks

We would take slow and safe and thorough over faster and more expansive every time. If the pace that can be safely worked at is set at a certain pace, plans should be shrunk to accommodate or additional resources should be sent for.

That said, we want those that will live and work all of the time. Spend time with family. Rest near your kin. Drink with your pupils. But do not waste your time by not planning ahead, by not filing the paperwork sooner, by not knowing the bylaws, by not talking to the guild heads aforehand.
The time of a dwarf is better spent enjoying life with kin, or improving their lives by your works, than getting surprised and obstructed by fellow dawi because you cannae be arsed to ask after their lives and their plans afore setting out.

The more time spent talking and contracting aforehand the less time you'll be surprised and obstructed by conflicting interests you hadn't a clue about. And that savings is multiplied for the hold by the amount of dawi that also dodge being inconvenienced by conflicts and delays and debates which were entirely avoidable.
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A third path of Runesmithing seems to be the step towards Grombrindal status. So before that we'd need to
1- Clan Ancestor (already stated functionally impossible while living. Becoming famous within our clan is likely well enough)
2- Hold Ancestor (Not only famous within our Hold, but a legend told of our Hold by those who know our hold)
3- Minor Regional Ancestor (Not only famous within the North, but an individual mentioned by at least the second or third story every time tales come up about the north)

So. I think we're on our way towards Hold pretty well. Regional, well. We'll see how these last bits of campaign go. Certainly our feats are excellent so far, but the ending of this may or may not be the stuff of high legend.
 
Yeah, but didn't he achieve his status a decent time after the other three, who did it relatively concurrently? Not to say thag anyone else got the 4th spot becore him, but iirc he got his slightly later than the first three?
I don't think there was a significant time gap between them. Or really any. The four of them kinda appeared together, each doing their own specific thing. Though I guess gazul might have been a bit later since dawi had to die first? Not entirely sure, especially the whole Lord of the Under earth part.
 
Deep magic and Trasmutation(alchemy) are things we've unlocked that could shake things up too.

Just think of it, those specialty beers from Deep Rock Galactic getting WHF equivalents
 
what's the video in the TEMPORARY THREADMARK ? It's blocked where I live

Edit: nvm, found it by searching the video id
 
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guys you don't try to become a god becoming a god happens to you we can't even do that it just happens
No I like that this quest doesn't have romance, also why would we want to be an ancestor god
Yeah, don't really get the obsession with the whole godhood thing that shows up in quests all the time. That's not hyperbole, near any quests were gods exist or the ability to become a god exists you see people occasionally talking about becoming a god quite often. I'm not really sure why though, like while some are awesome like the Ancestor Gods a lot of gods tend to just be assholes that were just born with that power and didn't earn them.

I imagine that if there wasn't the word 'god' at the end of Ancestor God that people would care nearly as much about becoming one.

On that note I definitely think that people shouldn't try to force it. If it happens it happens, cool. But I'd rather hope people don't decide to try to railroad the quest towards a certain path because they are basing every decision on whether or not it helps towards a god thing instead of the most fun options. It doesn't help that the QM pretty much states that it's pretty much impossible to become an ancestor god due to the massive head start they had in creating Dwarf society.
 
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I actually would only care to be an Ancestor because of the Ancestor part of the phrase. You see, the Dwarven Ancestors are just. Heroic. They're active, good, and are also straight up members of the race that worships them.

I mean. Becoming an Ancestor is something others elevate you to through your own deeds. See: Grombrindal

This quest didn't start off as a quest that makes the setting less grim, but the 1 - 100 against Hashit and the straight up killing of Kholek is massive. The North is no longer going to drift away and become lost, the East didn't fall and begin arming massive hordes, the dwarves have made a successful pact with an allied foreign race before the elgi showed up.
Black Orcs might not be invented at all.

The reason no other Ancestors ascended in the original timeline is a function of the collapse of the Karaz Ankor more than something built into the culture preventing other Ancestors from being capable of rising.

Also it's a fun thing to jabber about while we wait for next update. The amount of turns it would take to reach anywhere near that point would probably be years IRL, barring something wild happening at the end here.

Like. Spitballing here. There's a dragon? And some major demonic entities?

What else do we need for the Purification Rune besides dragon blood and perma-dead demon shards?
Because I'll tell ya, using a shard of a broken god as a regent in a purification rite? Now that's some Ancestor shit
 
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I imagine that if there wasn't the word 'god' at the end of Ancestor God that people would care nearly as much about becoming one.

I think paradoxically, people would care more if we relabel the lesser Ancestor gods as more Ancestor Saints, which is fitting considering the theme of Dawi Santa is so central to the design of Snorri Winterhearth. When most people talk about "Ancestor gods" , realistically, they aren't talking about ascending into the Seven (that's not going to happen), they are talking about aspirations of becoming the Dawi Equivalent of a Saint, whose veneration extends beyond the clan - first to the hold, perhaps then to the region, and then maybe for all the Karaz Ankor. Axe the god , replace it with the idea of becoming a saint, and we are technically already there with our clan, and almost there with our hold.
 
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I think paradoxically, people would care more if we relabel the lesser Ancestor gods as more Ancestor Saints, which is fitting considering the theme of Dawi Santa is so central to the design of Snorri Winterhearth. When most people talk about "Ancestor gods" , realistically, they aren't talking about ascending into the Seven (that's not going to happen), they are talking about aspirations of becoming the Dawi Equivalent of a Saint, whose veneration extends beyond the clan - first to the hold, perhaps then to the region, and then maybe for all the Karaz Ankor. Axe the god , replace it with the idea of becoming a saint, and we are technically already there with our clan, and almost there with our hold.
Oh no, when I talk about Snorri becoming an Ancestor God I mean adding an eighth to the seven. It'd be nigh impossible without some absurdly amazing stuff getting done, but if Snorri doesn't die, he's got a chance at it by the time Karl Franz would be born. Few thousand years old, oldest runesmith alice, and hopefully having done all kinds of awesome things, and I hope managing to create something uniquely his, or at least specialize into something like smednir did. Still like the idea of Snorri eventually getting industry going by the dawi somehow. That or runegenineeeing. Basically using runes and engineering as some kind of magitech, though that'd obviously be quite difficult.

Perhaps a more realistic thing to be the ancestors of is communication, if Snorri can get the runes of light and it's variants to work, well enough to allow near instant communication between the Holds, that might be a big enough deal to qualify, since it would have the potential to change the very fabric of the karaz ankor.
 
what gotten is so far is being a good dwarf we shoulnd't now have entire quest be reorient about tyring to becomg a god I say we countie as normal esspicaly as quest writer said it bassicily impossible too

[x] Retainers: Send them elsewhere without you.
[x] - [X] to aid the evacuation.
 
what gotten is so far is being a good dwarf we shoulnd't now have entire quest be reorient about tyring to becomg a god I say we countie as normal esspicaly as quest writer said it bassicily impossible too

[x] Retainers: Send them elsewhere without you.
[x] - [X] to aid the evacuation.
Sure, no issues with that at all. I just hope that by turn 500 or so, we'll be right up there with Grombrindal, and hopefully on the path to full Ancestor God.
 
Sure, no issues with that at all. I just hope that by turn 500 or so, we'll be right up there with Grombrindal, and hopefully on the path to full Ancestor God.
Snorri at age 2,000: "Can't die yet, haven't cleared the research queue."

Snorri at age 3,681: (at the start of the time of Woes/super earthquakes) -glances out of workshop- "What in tarnation?.....Really? Something as simple as this is what has you clean-jawed wazzoks all in a tizzy? Bah!" -taps a rune and about two dozen miner-class Gronti charge off to fix things- "Damn beardlings don't even know how to maintain the Ungdrin Ankor properly these days, grumble grumble grumble."

Snorri at age 7,483: (during the Great War against Chaos) "I'M BUSY!" -activates runic array that vaporizes about half the Chaos hordes trying to move through Norsca-

Snorri at age 7,703: (During End Times) "Finally. The research queue is empty." -Walks out of workshop, sees the world coming to an end- "This is unacceptable." -Charges back into workshop, grabs his armor and weapons- "Time to remind the beardlings how to actually fight."
 
I honestly always figured that since dawi have such a strong Older = Better thing going on, there isn't really so much a stark difference in category between respecting an Elder and venerating an Ancestor so much as degree of scale. It's the same act to them, it's just that the Ancestors are Old as opposed to the mere old of most Elders, so they get more veneration.

Snorri at age 7,703: (During End Times) "Finally. The research queue is empty." -Walks out of workshop, sees the world coming to an end- "This is unacceptable." -Charges back into workshop, grabs his armor and weapons- "Time to remind the beardlings how to actually fight."
I fully believe that something like this is what happened to make the Ancestor Gods do their vanishing act. Their research backlogs were getting so big in their negaverse quests that each turn post was breaking the forum's character limit, so they had to do some timeskips in order to cut down the options.
 
Snorri at age 2,000: "Can't die yet, haven't cleared the research queue."

Snorri at age 3,681: (at the start of the time of Woes/super earthquakes) -glances out of workshop- "What in tarnation?.....Really? Something as simple as this is what has you clean-jawed wazzoks all in a tizzy? Bah!" -taps a rune and about two dozen miner-class Gronti charge off to fix things- "Damn beardlings don't even know how to maintain the Ungdrin Ankor properly these days, grumble grumble grumble."

Snorri at age 7,483: (during the Great War against Chaos) "I'M BUSY!" -activates runic array that vaporizes about half the Chaos hordes trying to move through Norsca-

Snorri at age 7,703: (During End Times) "Finally. The research queue is empty." -Walks out of workshop, sees the world coming to an end- "This is unacceptable." -Charges back into workshop, grabs his armor and weapons- "Time to remind the beardlings how to actually fight."
honestly this is impormant point we have a choke hold now on chaos trying to enter old world and if we take back kragg drum then it further back than before at the rate it going we might follow cathy way and build some massive defnesive fortifaction for them to throw themselves at
 
It occurs to me that if soulcake wanted to do a timeskip to get us closer to relevent cannonical events - say the War of the Beard - Karag Dum with its time dilation field would be the place for it. Could fairly easily justify us losing a few centuries in this expedition, even if it barely takes a few months for Snorri.
 
It occurs to me that if soulcake wanted to do a timeskip to get us closer to relevent cannonical events - say the War of the Beard - Karag Dum with its time dilation field would be the place for it. Could fairly easily justify us losing a few centuries in this expedition, even if it barely takes a few months for Snorri.
Please don't. We have far too much to do.
 
So hey, now that Hashut is on the scene it seems like a good time to bring back up that old idea I had for a banner combo that would synergize with Ancestral Ageis:

Master Rune of Valaya, Rune of Gazul, Rune of Sanctuary

The goal is to provide protection against esoteric effects, and to shield even the souls of the dead from harm.

I can't think of a better defense against Hashut, especially with Gazul being the one to shatter him.
 
In the meantime, design a Grudge Rune aimed at Hashut.

Might not be able to hit him with it, but I bet it would do a number on any of his sorcerers etc considering they would be channeling his power.
 
It occurs to me that if soulcake wanted to do a timeskip to get us closer to relevent cannonical events - say the War of the Beard - Karag Dum with its time dilation field would be the place for it. Could fairly easily justify us losing a few centuries in this expedition, even if it barely takes a few months for Snorri.

GM's already said that he's not interested in time skips here and that the only way we are getting to the canon events is by a turn at a time. Something about how if he wanted to do canon he could have easily started later in the timeline.

[X] Tunnels: Take the paths down to the ritual site.
[X] Retainers: Send them elsewhere without you.
- [X] to aid the evacuation.
 
GM's already said that he's not interested in time skips here and that the only way we are getting to the canon events is by a turn at a time. Something about how if he wanted to do canon he could have easily started later in the timeline.
Course considering a turn is ten years and we are currently at 213 BP (turn 31) and the Empire forms at ~4522 that would be at about turn 460.
 
Course considering a turn is ten years and we are currently at 213 BP (turn 31) and the Empire forms at ~4522 that would be at about turn 460.
Yeah, but plenty of other legendary time periods to get to. War of the Beard/The Sundering, the rise of Nehekara, birth and undeath of Nagash, birth of the skaven, so on and such forth. We'll be around for all of it, and it's going to be a hell of a ride.
 
[Semi Canon] Fractured Aerie, +10 to an RER Roll [USED]
A Fractured Aerie


"He Who Dances with Frost"= Brana Speek.

"He Who Dances with Frost"= Khazalid






"Please, He Who Is Girded In Thunder, you fought with them during The Corrupting Storm, they will answer you if you ask them." The aforementioned Branaroki looked at the younger male, one barely out of his first adult molting it seemed like with glossy black feathers with an icelike frost on the tips of his pinions, and sighed in acquiescence, "Very well He Who Dances With Frost, but you are coming with me, it is long past time you got more used to speaking with Ones Who Are From Stone."

The other male, whom the Brana known to the Mountainfolk as 'Thunderbeak' could swear still had bits of shell on his head with the way his coloration was set, nodded eagerly and fell in line with the already leaving elder Brana, "Right right, are we going to have to go into the Fractured Aerie?" Thunderbeak turned back with a raised brow at the title He Who Dances with Frost used.

"The what hatchling?"

"The Fractured Aerie, that's what some of us have started calling this place. It feels...wrong somehow, like when we fly too close to the rotten winds." Thunderbeak clacked his mandibles together, the sharp retort the reason for the shortened name the Mountainfolk preferred to use, "While you are not wrong, this is not your aerie to name. When we get back, tell those 'some of us' that they are to use its Mountainfolk name unless they give us a different one. We do not roost here, we do not give it names that we have not carved."

He Who Dances With Frost nodded bashfully as he trotted up to the elder of the pair, and Thunderbeak gave a huff as he looked back to their path. Time was, before the Branaroki had Settled in The Aerie, the pair would have had to nip each other's flanks a bit over the matter if the younger Brana had felt strongly enough. But with their alliance and roosting with the Mountainfolk, there became a distinction between 'Matters of the Claw' where they would settle things as Brana had always done with strength and skill in a fight, and 'Matters of the Call' where they would simply talk it out. The latter had come about after it was revealed that the Mountainfolk did not have the durability and healing that the Branaroki were blessed with by their King, and so any disagreements with them would have to be handled in a different manner. So it was that matters that were deemed worth enough to speak of but not enough to fight about were called 'Matters of the Call' due to one Mountainfolk saying at the time, "It is best when you call out the mistakes of the young when you see them, else you have all sorts of foolishness taking root in their minds."

They passed a few Mountainfolk on their way, Thunderbeak exchanged nods with the Krakka Drakk members and per-functionary nods with those of 'Karak Dum', although He Who Dances With Frost often stopped to chatter and catch up with some of the Mountainfolk he knew in their language. Thunderbeak still relied on the torque protected by the armor forged by He Who Girds The Many but younger Branaroki like Thunderbeak's energetic companion were taught Khazalid along with the Brana tongue, it simply made no sense to do otherwise.

"Thorfil says the short prisoners are being kept in a different area now, more closed off and secure. We'll need to turn..." Thunderbeak nodded as the frost-winged Brana relayed the instructions one of the Mountainfolk had given and pushed on. As much as he hadn't approved of the presumptuous naming, Thunderbeak was willing to agree that the stones of 'Karag Dum' felt wrong to him too, too bathed in the Twisted Winds his senses told him...a similar feeling he'd gotten when near the 'short prisoners' had been held before as his temporary ward had just called them. With the hatchlings asking about it though, Thunderbeak could inquire on the matter without prying as it was to illuminate things for the younger Brana and certainly not for Thunderbeak's own curiosity.

However their journey was halted when they chanced upon the Prince of Krakka Drakk, Gimli. At first he'd been happy to see the brace of Brana but when He Who Dances In Frost conveyed their purpose to discover the truth of the 'short prisoners', the prince's expression darkened them and he ushered them into a side cavern, "Such a matter is not to be spoken of lightly, why do you want to know Frostwing?" 'Ah, so that is the hatchling's dwarven name' Thunderbeak thought, his head nodding slightly as the suspicion he'd had was confirmed, this was a dark matter.

"We are concerned because this seems to be causing you, our allies and friends, a great deal of strife and trouble. We want to know if we can help." Frostwing said, earning a deep sigh and beard stroke from the 'young' prince, who now looked a great deal older as the weight of the topic pressed on him, "'Tend to the hold' he says, well he was the one that started us being able to talk to you lot so I suppose I should share information with you as I would any Thane or Dawi. So be it, listen well as I will not be repeating myself and I would ask that you not spread this to others that are prone to gossip, we are still working through everything." Frostwing and Thunderbeak nodded,

"By our names we swear, we will not speak of this without the word of you or any that speak for the Mountainfolk." The vow seemed to reassure the Dwarf royal, who pulled out a flask and took a deep swig before capping it, "Good, thank you, I know what that means to a Brana...the 'short prisoners' are other Karak Dum...no, they were once Dawi of Karak Dum, what they are now we do not know. The Gift Giver says that they are under some deep magic but I think...I think he's hoping that is the case."

Thunderbeak tilted his head to the side, "Why would he hope for such a thing, to have such magics placed on these Mountainfolk? Only for Frostwing to click his beak fretfully and speak up,

"Because otherwise they turned willingly otherwise...they, they BETRAYED THEIR FLOCK!" Frostwing's started to spread and a cold wind swept through the cavern as the Branaroki started going into a killing rage, only for the young male to snap out of it when a well placed wing-buffet from Thunderbeak shocked him out of the cusp of bloody outrage, "Calm yourself hatchling and let the prince explain or so help me I will take you by the scruff back to the camp."

Gimli did not seem offended, merely in agreement in a coldly furious way, "Do not blame him overmuch good Brana, many of my kin reacted the same way when the origin of the Beastmen's arms and armor was discovered. We found survivors and the tale they had to tell was far worse, far more malignant than we could have ever conceived." Thunderbeak gave an understanding shake of his head as he used the same wing he'd swiped Frostwing with to press the smaller male into sitting down,

"Understood, and sit down you shellheaded fool, we are trying to be discrete on this hunt." Frostwing settled down with the agitated only the young could convey, which made Thunderbeak give him another buffet before pulling the wing back, while the dwarven prince used the time to compose his thoughts, "I will try to put this in Branaroki terms if I may? I want to make sure I can convey myself in 'Matters of the Call' correctly."

When both Brana gave their assent Gimli went into the tale that had been given to the Lord Gift Giver and others at the head of the Throng, of slow treachery and careful positioning culminating in being declared the guards of the Karak, which had Frostwing stirring in anger again, only this time Thunderbeak rumbled with him "They place themselves as protectors of their aerie only to misuse that trust? To willingly let in Egg eaters and young killers?!"

"Aye, the princess and others of the survivors confirmed it, they did that and more, and the worst... Apprentices were slain by their own Masters when they wouldn't turn." Thunderbeak was now confused as well as angry, because the way Gimli spoke of the deed, it was an especially foul one and Frostwing's still form and rumble of fury confirmed it. But for the Brana elder, there was something missing and as loathe as he was to press a fresh wound, he needed to understand, "This treachery of the Masters and Apprentices...this is a Mountainfolk concept we do not have a name for, or at least we didn't."

Frostwing's claws seemed to grasp and clench as if rending prey or an enemy but his head twitched as one of the Brana who had lost their kill would, "It, they...there are no words we have to describe it elder...it is wrong like it would be to slay one's own chicks but worse..." Frostbeak was so worked up that he'd slipped into the Brana speech and after giving a glare to the younger male to remain calm, Thunderbeak turned to Gimli while Frostwing descended to grumbling that would do a Mountainfolk proud if the gaze of Gimli was anything to go by.

"It is something we have trouble speaking of ourselves, it is such a core concept that the idea of breaching it...none had done this until now. If I may, Names are important and vital to a Branaroki's identity yes?" Thunderbeak slowly nodded and the dwarf continued, "Well, for Dwarves, in a way Titles are to us what Names are for you. Something to be earned and when earned carrying a responsibility to honor that title and live by it. For example, a Master Smith takes on the name and duties of 'One Who Shapes Metal To Useful Forms', a Master Healer is 'One Who Battles Injuries Of Others'. But in order to convey this knowledge, to honor the ones who taught them by finding those worthy of learning and taking them in...they take another title, 'Master'. Which to you might as well mean 'One Who Protects The Young.' as their name. These...Frundar, these traitorous unDawi have broken that name with their own hands and were proud of having done so."

Thunderbeak's claws shimmered with lightning for a moment as Gimli's attempt to convey the sheer enormity of the betrayal sunk home, of how important the Mountainfolk considered the bond between a teacher and student, the trust in leaving their chicks in the hands of another to be essentially taught to fly...only for them to be shattered upon rocks with the last sounds they hear the mocking laughter of their former teacher...yes, Thunderbeak could understand why Frostbeard and Gimli were so furious, but he was an elder and as the Mountainfolk would say, he had a duty to keep them calm.

With one more buffet laced with a touch of lightning magic, Thunderbeak broke Frostwing from his funk, "Enough! You are right to be upset, any Branaroki or Mountainfolk would be so...but we must remain in control, as the Mountainfolk have been about it. What is to be done, and if we should come across more of these...Frundar as you call them, what should we do with them?" Frostwing nodded along in a manner that was a touch to eager and hungry for Thunderbeak's peace of mind for the moment, he'd need to take the hatchling flying on a hunt to work off such instincts before battle.

Gimli gave a bone weary sigh and rubbed his face and beard with one hand, "If you come across any of them...do not risk yourself to take them prisoner. If you can without putting yourselves in harms way, do so. Otherwise...they made their choices, and while death might be too good for them, it will at least contain their spite and hate to the afterlife, wherever that thing they worship is. However, I have duties to attend to and I have little doubt that you have yours as well. For your concern and your aide once again I thank you, you are worthy allies and friends." Thunderbeak gave a deep bow of his own to match the one that Gimli gave to the Branaroki, Frostwing echoing the gesture without hesitation, before the Griffons got up to leave the cavern. The Dawi prince stayed a moment in the space, his expression somber and haunted as he found himself wracked once more with dread at the idea that there were things that could corrupt a Dawi so, let alone Dawi that would succumb.

He and those that had been told had slept poorly if at all after the revelation, and Gimli had little doubt they would continue to do so for a good time longer.


======================================


As they traveled back to the camp the other Branaroki were staying in, the pair did not speak, although Frostwing was snapping at air and hissing occasionally. This drew some odd looks from passing Mountainfolk but most were either too distracted with troubles of their own or simply accepted the behavior as reacting to the tainted areas of the hold, as other Brana sometimes did the same.

Thunderbeak however remained calm if only outwardly, in his mind however the Elder Brana was both immensely filled with ire and determination. They had been right to join the Mountainfolk in this, while this would not totally repay the Debt and the Bond, he was still glad that their kind were to help the One Who Are From Stone. He'd have to talk to others and the king about possibly settling here to help the rebuilding, assuming any of them survived the coming battles. He Who Quiets The Winds was leading well and quickly, but the Twisted Winds carried many things that could end them all...



========================================================

There we go, inspired by some discord talk, but I figured it couldn't hurt to get another Brana POV especially when it comes to stuff that even the Dawi are having trouble processing, which would make translating that veddy hard indeed.

Also wanted to show a bit of the generation gap/culture change that is probably happening with the Branaroki after they settled in Krakka Drakk and some dwarvish culture seems in and vice versa.

Hope you like @soulcake
 
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