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At that point it could be cheaper to get Earthshaping 60 instead honestly, which is <bark> and might let us do it anyway. We will need to raise Athletics etc up a tier anyway. No guarantees it would be able to make substrate though.

Not to mention the elemental stunts are actually quite good if we end up pursuing GC + some earth attack as half-cost offensive options rather than taji. Regardless, BoC is a long term thing for after we leave and lose substrate access.
 
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Not saying that the following would work, but simply as a seed to open up discussion a bit:

"Gaku, I [and name(s)] are going off to find the Otter Scroll because apparently all the other Leaf clans are too damn lazy and we're not going to sit on this even if they do. The research I've done says that the area is fairly safe, but just in case something bad happens and [I / we] don't make it back, here is a document defining the Gōketsu line of succession and a series of 'final message' letters for various friends and family members. Those letters should be sent ONLY if I'm declared dead. Seriously, some of the contents are embarrassing so do not send them unless you're sure I'm not coming back, okay?"

~some months later~

"Lord Nara, this is the 'final message' letter from Lord Gōketsu to you. He suggested that the contents might be embarrassing, so it might be wise to open it in private."

~Shikamaru goes to a private room and opens the letter~

Dear Shikamaru: Well, looks like I bit it. Guess I got too cocky, huh? Without me [and <names of people who went with>] I'm not convinced that the Gōketsu will survive, so I'd like to offer you a deal: adopt all of my civilians now and all of my ninja as quickly as you can, prioritizing the ninja over any other potential adoptees. In exchange, here is a sealed envelope containing all the Gōketsu shinies; if you agree to adopt everyone then go ahead and open the envelope and get the shinies. If you don't agree, please burn the envelope. Obviously I can't enforce this deal from beyond the grave but I'll trust you to be honest. You're a good man and I'm glad to have known you. --Your loving brother-in-law, Hazō
Is it weird that I want the letter to be given to Naruto?
 
Naruto isn't the guy half the hivemind has been spending a year making paranoid theories re: Akane/Asuma dying about.
Pffft. Fair. And I bet Naruto has accumulated a lot of adoption tickets over the last few years...

Heck, I'll vote for it. Jiriaya approved of Naruto, and Naruto is Kei and Noburi's friend. I trust their judgement of character enough. Besides, we'll (hopefully) be back, eventually.

I'm down.
 
he was also akane's friend and gets along well whit mari; his beef was only whit hazou. exactly like the chikamaru situation. i am sensing a pattern.
 
For the skill itself yeah. I mostly meant that it would give halfcost for other earth jutsu up to level 60 rather than 50, which is a huge discount if we were to decide to level GC and an earth element attack eventually. But come to think of it, if we were levelling something that high, it would likely still be cheaper to use that as the earth capstone instead and just get BoTC 30, anyway, so I suppose you are right.
 
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As far as we understand it, a seal is fundamentally an inanimate object that creates a chakra construct. Sealing is probably involved in some way in what's up with the Seventh Path, especially given recent things the Toads told us- there's certainly some long-lasting chakra constructs and no sign of a living being creating them. Storage seals react disastrously when you try to put other active seals in them, and the Sages were concerned about sealing going on in their Path. Summoning and reverse summoning are consistent with the locations you come/go to, much as storage seals are consistent with output/input, and both have a little leeway but only so much before Bad Things happen. I think it's fair to say that the 7th Path has behaviors consistent with what we understand of seals, if far more sophisticated and on a far grander scale.

I'm interested in Hazo spending some prep time on comparing his understanding of fundamental sealing theory (especially storage seal behavior), his download of a Summoning Scroll, and the recent 7th Path lore the Toads gave. See if he forms any theoretical connections, here. It's a little "QMs figure this out for us" but also practically everything Hazo knows about chakra and sealing is a black box to us and he's one of history's greatest sealing genii, with a bunch of esoteric lore available to him.
Further discussion has turned up parallels between Minatosealing and however the Sage made the Seventh Path- Minatosealing requires physical anchors for the chakra construct and for whatever reason Naruto and his bijuu seal absolutely can't go on the Seventh Path, where other seals/runes/etc can at least make the journey there. Does Naruto/his seal just play badly with the transportation? Is something about his seal inherently worse for the Path's stability? And what do the dragons provide to the Seventh Path? People have speculated on stuff like garbage collection but Twinnstars brought up the possibility that they're providing their extra reality to the Path to make it more than just a fancy storage seal.
 
Further discussion has turned up parallels between Minatosealing and however the Sage made the Seventh Path- Minatosealing requires physical anchors for the chakra construct and for whatever reason Naruto and his bijuu seal absolutely can't go on the Seventh Path, where other seals/runes/etc can at least make the journey there. Does Naruto/his seal just play badly with the transportation? Is something about his seal inherently worse for the Path's stability? And what do the dragons provide to the Seventh Path? People have speculated on stuff like garbage collection but Twinnstars brought up the possibility that they're providing their extra reality to the Path to make it more than just a fancy storage seal.
I imagine that it's the Fox itself that plays havoc with the Seventh Path's stability.
 
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  1. Fire Element: Burning Vortex – what seems like a Fire-style Water Whip.
  2. Fire Element: Flame Wall – creates large flame barriers that are challenging to pass.
  3. Fire Element: Sundance – a weak offensive ninjutsu that charges up over time if exposed to sunlight.
  4. Earth Element: Bleeding River Impalement – a large-AoE Earth-style ninjutsu.
  5. Wind Element: Vacuum Energy Ball – a ranged, armor-piercing Wind ninjutsu.
  6. Water Element: Surging Seas – a ranged attack that doubles as a movement technique.
Hmm, maybe we should also consider offering Burning Votrex as a trade option. It's a lot better than Fire Lash (even ignoring its specified TH potential). Flame Wall also might be tempting as well…

There's a very big buyer's market for Fire techniques among Konoha clans.
 
Okay, we know for a fact the Mori are connected to an Outer entity. Orochimaru thinks this is normal. Let's find out if we're the Iron Nerve entity.

[X] Be Hanzo Kurosawa
[X] Be Ryuugamine Mori

Let's do these next voting cycle, see what happens. We can tell Hanzo how much he sucks compared to Hazo.
 
Fwiw, I'm reluctant to separate Team Uplift even for Goketsu's sake, and I don't think we can afford to prioritize the Clan above our odds of being able to deal with X-risks. Goketsu will still have a bunch of capable ninja, Jiraiya's reputation, and the Hokage's goodwill- the Uchiha were comparatively better established in Leaf but they were also only left with one ninja when Itachi did his silly fun time family gathering and Sasuke managed alright. I don't think that Goketsu will be ruined.
There was nothing impinging on Sasuke's honor and his Clan wasn't a thorn in anyone's eye afterwards. They were also an honored founding Clan, which traditionalists didn't want to lose. And they have one of the best Bloodlines, so keeping them around is an investment into Leaf's future no matter your politics.

The Gokētsu in contrast will be a bunch of ninja who were Clanless until yesterday, might never even have personally spoken to Jiraiya and were adopted by the traitors twice over who pulled the wool over Leaf and should have been kicked out long ago instead of being allowed to debase Leaf's sacred moral principles (of heteronormativity and social hierarchy), drag the religious authorities through the mud, facilitate a Clanless rebellion, corrupt the youth that had to inherit leadership too early (probably in part due to Gokētsu machinations) and have one of them elected Hokage (who luckily wasn't as easy to manipulate after all which led to them all running away like cowards).

Let's be honest. Who will protect Clan Gokētsu as an entity? The Yamanaka and Nara will feel a mix of heartbreak and ideologically driven rage, with the Akamichi singing I told you so. The KEI and the Kei will have to save their political capital after their founding coordinators turned out to have always been nothing more than dirty missing in traitors from Mist after all. Naruto will himself have political issues by association. The remaining Gokētsu ninja have no social spec beyond Haru (who didn't think much of Team Uplift anyway) and may well be better of donating all assets to the KEI and rejoining it for protection and to distance themselves from the foreign traitors. They won't even have any Bloodlines to give them concrete value. And the Gokētsu civilians will be ripe for long overdue Yakuza retaliation.
EM rune nuke the rift site, hopefully without anyone noticing us set up I guess?
I thought the current plan was to somehow magically relocate the Rift. A frontal assault won't be feasible no matter how much of Team Uplift we bring. Except if we coordinate the attack with a Naruto-led Leaf assault. In which case the rest of Team Uplift will be present anyway.

Also Mari and Yuno can't even reverse summon. I don't see how the whole group is supposed to evade Akatsuki any better than one made up of just summoners. Because the most feasible strategy for that which I saw was remaining mostly on the 7th Path.
I maintain that the Gouketsu-as-a-clan is going to be destroyed if we leave and that fighting against that is futile and wasteful. Instead, we should set up a dead man's switch which offers the Nara a deal where they get all of our assets and a bunch of secrets (Earthshaping as a way to generate infinite money? notes on lithosealing?) in exchange for adopting all our civilians and leftover ninja, maintaining their standards of living, and continuing whatever Uplift projects we had in motion.

This is clearly the best way forward if we actually care about our people and projects, rather than the ephemeral "Gouketsu" label.
Why not just give it all to the KEI/Kei instead? They'd have to agree anyway, otherwise the Nara won't have the adoption tickets.

As for the Gokētsu being doomed even if just Hazō (or Hazō and Kagome) leaves, there's the option of successfully faking our death. Naruto won't be incentivized to investigate too deeply. Just enough to maintain appearance and not make Akatsuki grill him.
I mean, we could ask Cannai to echo what the Snakes said about Orochimaru, when we thought he had died: "we are not accepting Summoners at this time."
Wasn't that done when someone tried to summon a Snake? IIRC Orochimaru left the Scroll behind on Nagi Island. But in our case a) we won't be leaving the Scroll anywhere and b) everyone has embassies with everyone these days.

Also, how are we going to convince the Pangolin and the Toads to do something similar? We'd need full buy-in from Gamabunta, Shima and Fukuzaku, which will only happen of Naruto confirms to them that he's in on it. And the Pangolin Empire, which hosts the Conclave and 7th Path trading network, has no reason at all to cover for Kei on this.

Adoption tickets aren't required for interclan adoptions, only clanless to clan
That would be sensible. Sadly Mari and Asuma somehow bungled it so hard that even inter-Clan marriages need adoption tickets.

By the way, wouldn't it be really easy to fix that through a Clan Council vote? Sure, it weakens the KEI, but there is no reason they should have this power. And who would vote against that weakening of the adoption ticket stranglehold? The Kei, the KEI, maybe the Nara. I guess Naruto might both vote against it and veto the whole thing, but again, it doesn't make sense that they got that power in the first place.

@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped I forgot. Why did Asuma let adoption tickets remain necessary for Clan-to-Clan adoptions/marriages after he gave the monopoly over tickets to the KEI?
Pffft. Fair. And I bet Naruto has accumulated a lot of adoption tickets over the last few years...

Heck, I'll vote for it. Jiriaya approved of Naruto, and Naruto is Kei and Noburi's friend. I trust their judgement of character enough. Besides, we'll (hopefully) be back, eventually.

I'm down.
Didn't Naruto say he didn't want to become the Gokētsu Clan Head, for various reasons? Would naming the whole thing Uzumaki and doing the adoptions in the other direction really change that calculus? I think I have to read the relevant chapter again.
 
Naruto shook his head, his face twisting in a bitter smile. "You'd think that, wouldn't you? Trouble is, Mum was a kid when Whirlpool pulled their disappearing act. Forget ancient secrets, she didn't even know how many ninja they had in the village. The only person who might have had them was Lady Mito, but Whirlpool was still there in her time, meaning she was in a normal inter-clan marriage where she wasn't allowed to share one clan's secrets with the other. If she did anyway, they would've gone to the Senju, and Aunt Sunny never got round to passing them on to me.
Can someone remind me what the Quest canon on Naruto's ancestry is?
I have no idea who Lady Mito is. And if Lady Mito was from Whirlpool and married into a Leaf Clan (which Clan again?), does that mean that Ami was actually the second ever ninja to be exchanged between two villages instead of the first? And how does this relate to the Senju?
Next, I assume that "Namikaze" is a normal non-Clan surname and that Minato was born Clanless? Or otherwise, why did he take on his wife's Clan if it was a foreigner Clan and meant the extinction of his own Clan? Also, how did the Uzumaki get voting rights?
 
Can someone remind me what the Quest canon on Naruto's ancestry is?
I have no idea who Lady Mito is. And if Lady Mito was from Whirlpool and married into a Leaf Clan (which Clan again?), does that mean that Ami was actually the second ever ninja to be exchanged between two villages instead of the first? And how does this relate to the Senju?
Next, I assume that "Namikaze" is a normal non-Clan surname and that Minato was born Clanless? Or otherwise, why did he take on his wife's Clan if it was a foreigner Clan and meant the extinction of his own Clan? Also, how did the Uzumaki get voting rights?
Mito Uzumaki was Hashirama Senju's wife. First jinchuuriki of the Nine-Tails. They presumably got voting rights because of one or both of these. The Senju are cousins of the Uzumaki, in canon because they both descended from the Sage's younger son Asura. Minato seems to have been clanless, yes.
 
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Shadow Imitation – You know it, you love it. The user's shadow stretches out to ensnare an opponent's own shadow. If the connection is made, the user can control the opponent's body, making them imitate everything the user does.
Shadow Guardians – A defensive technique that is particularly effective against ranged weapons and in single combat.
Shadow Step – An enhancement to Substitution that hinders enemy movement.
Shadow Betrayal – A moderate debuff that hinders enemy movement.
Shadow Visage – A general-purpose defensive technique.

In Kei's opinion, she thinks Shadow Guardians suits her style, Shadow Imitation is generally strong, and Shadow Visage is appealing personally.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
  • Have Kei's thoughts on this matter changed after the Orochimaru deal?
    • Cloak of the Wind God and Whirlwind Barrier both have incredibly potent defensive capabilities.
    • Does she still think Shadow Guardians and Shadow Visage are good priorities for her to develop afterward?
  • Does Kei consider it realistic to ensnare someone like Hidan using Shadow Imitation?
    • If so…
      • What level of skill would be required to pull it off?
      • Is it something she could train to do, especially with her bloodline aiding her?
 
What is the current plan to reintegrate back to leaf of Naruto dies before the riff project is completed whit akatsuki's elimination?
 
What is the current plan to reintegrate back to leaf of Naruto dies before the riff project is completed whit akatsuki's elimination?
If Naruto dies then we can just show up and:
  • Hey, we're S-rank. You need help, let us back in.
  • Hey, we're SS-rank. Why are you on my property?
  • Uncle Oro, good to see you! Hokage? What's that??
  • "What do you mean, Ritsuo is the Hokage?" Hazō asked absentmindedly, as he scribed enough explosives to kill god, thrice-over. "You meant, like, until we get back, right?"
 
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