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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Twinnstars said:
The problem is we do think of those novel seal ideas, but the only things that ever get voted through are the things that the thread agrees seems

1. Within our skill limit
2. Strong enough to be worth our time
3. Reasonable in setting

Variations of existing seals easily satisfy 2 and 3, leaving all the bickering over 1, which is solvable with a prep day.


The only way to get novel research through is by doing ALL the novel research, since otherwise the various blocs all invested in one specific seal never get any traction.

I'm just waiting for Hazō to have enough SC hours that I can direct my own research *haughty sniff*
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I don't disagree, but Orochimaru's still a cut above in terms of wild effects. The cannibal seal for one, as well as whatever seal apparently identified Hazou as a relative of the Uchiha and whispered in his ear. Even on the more conventional side of things, his demonstration in the Orbularium is very much not how we would approach the creation of a high-yield destructive seal.

It's not that Orochimaru has ideas that we're fundamentally incapable of thinking of, to be clear. It's that we tend to aim for the most reasonable-sounding version of a given idea, because the only real lever we have to reliably make seals easier is minimalism: strip down the extra features, pare it all down to the minimum viable sealtech. Orochimaru, by contrast, seems to have the knack for just figuring out which bells and whistles are most compatible with a given seal idea, and which esoteric seal ideas can be realistically done without even any of that minimalism. I'm not saying that we'll be locked out of figuring out creative effects without watching him, but it'll sure be a heck of a lot easier if we can just watch him venture off to some distant point in concept-space because he happened to see a path there, and then we trace that path itself and figure out all the ways we can branch off of it.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
I don't disagree, but Orochimaru's still a cut above in terms of wild effects. The cannibal seal for one, as well as whatever seal apparently identified Hazou as a relative of the Uchiha and whispered in his ear. Even on the more conventional side of things, his demonstration in the Orbularium is very much not how we would approach the creation of a high-yield destructive seal.

It's not that Orochimaru has ideas that we're fundamentally incapable of thinking of, to be clear. It's that we tend to aim for the most reasonable-sounding version of a given idea, because the only real lever we have to reliably make seals easier is minimalism: strip down the extra features, pare it all down to the minimum viable sealtech. Orochimaru, by contrast, seems to have the knack for just figuring out which bells and whistles are most compatible with a given seal idea, and which esoteric seal ideas can be realistically done without even any of that minimalism. I'm not saying that we'll be locked out of figuring out creative effects without watching him, but it'll sure be a heck of a lot easier if we can just watch him venture off to some distant point in concept-space because he happened to see a path there, and then we trace that path itself and figure out all the ways we can branch off of it.
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Huhhhh considering that primordial sealing is all about making conflicting flows of chakra help you instead of avoiding them.... uh I'm suddenly even more worried about Oro getting P sealing. I didn't think that was possible.
 
acidshill said:
I don't remember exactly what the QMs have said about this, but would increasing Orochimaru's Empathy stat (as through FiF) actually change his personality?
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Personality and stats explicitly do not correlate. The mechanics would do nothing about Orochimaru's personality. Narratively, though, it's fair to think that FiF's fluff would do something to Orochimaru if we accept the premise that it was somehow added to him.
 
Sir Stompy said:
w h a t
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Inferno Vulpix said:
So the one thing I was most confused still about the mental effect is why it was targeting Hazou in particular. There's no real reason in particular, Kagome's leading the exploration, Naruto's the strongest, and positionally Hazou's in the middle of the pack. My best guess is that it was targeting someone at random and we were lucky enough that it was us and we could react to it.

But someone on discord suggested it might be Uchiha-related. Back when Orochimaru made the trap there was still a strong Uchiha clan, and sharinghax being what it is any invasion of Orochimaru's lab would likely involve an Uchiha. I also don't find it implausible that in a given group of invaders, the Uchiha is the one most susceptible to a paranoia trap.
Idiot.
And Hazou's of the Kurosawa, cousin to the Uchiha. It would make sense for an anti-Uchiha defense to target him.
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Thanks.

Someone at random makes more sense to me.

Why just assume he had paranoia inducing anti-Uchiha seals? Wouldn't it be easier to to just have paranoia inducing seals?
 
Worth noting that becoming Orochimaru's apprentice may create a substantial and severe rift between us and Mari, Kagome, and Kei (our sister) such that it has very real and very concrete consequences.

EDIT: Also may strain our relationship with KEI, who are the most likely people to be tortured by Orochimaru, despite it being voluntary
 
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Sir Stompy said:
Thanks.

Someone at random makes more sense to me.

Why just assume he had paranoia inducing anti-Uchiha seals? Wouldn't it be easier to to just have paranoia inducing seals?
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It seems more difficult to making a consistently-targetting random seal than a consistently-targetting bloodline seal.
 
Saint said:
Worth noting that becoming Orochimaru's apprentice may create a substantial and severe rift between us and Mari, Kagome, and Kei (our sister) such that it has very real and very concrete consequences.

EDIT: Also may strain our relationship with KEI, who are the most likely people to be tortured by Orochimaru, despite it being voluntary
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Big shrug. Not much choice in the circumstances, if we still want to engage in necromancy.
 
Shrooms said:
I don't really think "No Oro apprenticeship = give up on necro" is good/fair framing at all, even as someone who is not strongly opposed to an apprenticeship.
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I mean -- sure, if you wanna go right on ahead with it without Oro's protection and be murdered the next time Hidan comes for a visit, be my guest? That's what I'm getting at here. I don't really see other options than that.

(This is a large part of why I wanted to side with Akatsuki.)
 
I feel like we've had this conversation so many times, Ami has successfully used this exact conflict to determine that Hazo is a hivemind. Nobody sane (or even insane in the usual ways) would bring this up again, and yet here we are.

Any Hazo that is consistent with the Hazo we've been enjoying reading about could not become Oro's apprentice under any circumstances. A Hazo that, despite himself, tried, would be a miserable, self-loathing wreck of a person who would not be enjoyable to read about. The quest, if it somehow survived the attempt, would likely become a full-blown horror story of many various shades.

Please don't do that.
 
redzonejoe said:
I feel like we've had this conversation so many times, Ami has successfully used this exact conflict to determine that Hazo is a hivemind. Nobody sane (or even insane in the usual ways) would bring this up again, and yet here we are.

Any Hazo that is consistent with the Hazo we've been enjoying reading about could not become Oro's apprentice under any circumstances. A Hazo that, despite himself, tried, would be a miserable, self-loathing wreck of a person who would not be enjoyable to read about. The quest, if it somehow survived the attempt, would likely become a full-blown horror story of many various shades.

Please don't do that.
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Sorry, I see the words "free XP" and my brain short-circuits.
 
We have three major routes to necromancy right now:
1. We convince Akatsuki to let us help. I have ideas for this, but it's a hard sell. We'd need some unlikely things to happen. The ability to smack down Hidan and have it stick, even for a round or two, would help a *lot*
2. We kill Sasori, and open the rift at our leisure, assuming we survive the counter-attack. We probably don't unless we go Uber missing, but we'd need to go to the rift anyways.
3. We sneak into the rift, avoiding conflict with Akatsuki. Close the rift behind us. Then we find our loved ones, run back to the exit, and hope Akatsuki isn't sitting there waiting for us.
 
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Twinnstars said:
We have three routes to necromancy right now:
1. We convince Akatsuki to let us help. I have ideas for this, but it's a hard sell. We'd need some unlikely things to happen. The ability to smack down Hidan and have it stick, even for a round or two, would help a *lot*
2. We kill Sasori, and open the rift at our leisure, assuming we survive the counter-attack. We probably don't unless we go Uber missing, but we'd need to go to the rift anyways.
3. We sneak into the rift, avoiding conflict with Akatsuki. Close the rift behind us. Then we find our loved ones, run back to the exit, and hope Akatsuki isn't sitting there waiting for us.
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You're missing a big one.

4. Attack Akatsuki after they go into the Rift. Kill their rearguard. Close it on the remainder and let them die inside. Then explore it at our leisure.

Paperclipped said:
Substitution Seal:

Hazō (Sealing): 50 + 0 = 50
Hazō (Calligraphy): 42 - 3 = 39

Hazō (Sealing): 50 + 0 = 50
Hazō (Calligraphy): 42 + 3 = 45

Hazō thinks he's about a quarter of the way done with this seal. It's not particularly challenging, just seems like it might take longer than usual for a genin-level seal.
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@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

How does Hazou feel about his reduced Calligraphy after succeeding at a couple of these infusions?

Is he confident that a 42 + 3 (Dampener) - 10 (Severe Consequence) = 35 will be enough for this?
 
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Sir Stompy said:
4. Attack Akatsuki after they go into the Rift. Kill their rearguard. Close it on the remainder and let them die inside. Then explore it at our leisure.
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They might not need a rear guard depending on how Sasori goes about it. If our entire plan relies on the Akatsuki not entering the Rift as a whole and then coming out with Pain in tow via some other means than the entrance, then thats probably not a great plan, since I can imagine a bunch of ways that could feasibly be done on the fly, and they are not stupid - if they need the entrance to not get closed on them then thats a big glaring weakness - one they will either prepare for or eliminate outright.
 
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