Turns out the Dust Release didn't end with Ōnoki, so then I had to be real careful.
Hidan causally telling Hazou exactly how to kill him for good.

Anything that disintegrates him will do it. Very good to know.

Although I think the current best plan is to cut him to bits with a skyslicer and then set those bits on fire.
Maybe thinkin' 'bout that and the Great Seal will let Sasori chill from the grind for a bit."

Hazō tucked away the confirmation that Sasori was working on a big project
As good as confirmation that Sasori is working on necromancy. We need to grind faster.
 
"Lord Jashin's the only one that made the bearded bastard bleed," Hidan said with a wink. "Gotta commemorate great feats, y'know? None of the others got a scratch on the shit. Now, answer the question. Have you managed to kill a single person since I was last here?"

Hazō racked his brain. "I've killed lots of chakra beasts," he said. "And I ripped the lungs out of a Hyena."
Don't forget the Cats we set on fire.
 
if your plan more or less does this I'll likely vote for you (wording choice differences are fine). Hidan seemed to like it the last few times Hazou told him to fuck off so, yknow

[X] We Put Thousands of XP in Resolve for a Reason
Word Count: Low
  • Thank Hidan for telling us about the murder-qoutas, but stand your ground. Hazou has been clear about who he wants to kill.
    • It was Hazou who killed an eldritch beast even the Sage never did, and the rest are on his menu.
    • Akane's killers need to die.
    • There are plenty of scum in this world that need to be killed, like the pedophile whose head Hazou smashed like a grape. If this world is Jashin's garden then the weeds should be picked so the flowers can flourish. It's as Hidan said, to Jashin all lives are equal, so Jashin is perfectly accepting of Hazou's choice of sacrifice, and all the happier for making his world better in the meantime.
    • Hidan asks if Hazou is doubting Jashin's choice, but Hidan's questioning sounds like Hidan is doubting Jashin's choice of chosen.
    • It's not a matter of reluctance to kill, it's about an appropriate target, and it was Hidan who asked Hazou to pick targets for him, trusting his judgement. Hazou has made it clear who is his target.
 
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"Remember Hazō, the greatest sin is mercy, and these peasants don't matter. You want Lord Jashin to give you a hand? Lord Jashin helps those who help themselves."

"So," Hidan said, gesturing broadly with his scythe to the growing population of the town that was coming out of their houses and bowing to the two ninja atop the walls that penned them in. "Help yourself."
"I'll take that under advisement. No seriously, not empty words, if sacrificing a few nobodies can get Jashin to put his fingers on the scales and help me change the entire world, that's something worth considering even in spite of all the politics and treason and whatnot. However, these guys are not the sacrifice I'll be making. We, that is my family and I, have put in work in this particular village and many others, and we still need to see if that work will pay off. If I need to kill a few civilians, I'd rather it not be the ones I've invested in first, kinda like stabbing your own foot."

Objection number 1: Killing off your own investments are bad. Objection number 2: 'Politics and treason and whatnot'.

Imply or even outright agree to kill non-leaf citizens somewhere, sometime. May need to follow through either immediately or near future. Still morally terrible, but satisfies political and investment objections so Hazo can go on living life in leaf and implementing uplift as best he can.

Dealing with the mental breakdown afterwards? That's Mari's job. Don't forget to yell out loud "for jashin!" with every swing of the knife, for good measure. With or without Hidan personally watching.
 
if your plan more or less does this I'll likely vote for you (wording choice differences are fine). Hidan seemed to like it the last few times Hazou told him to fuck off so, yknow

[X] We Put Thousands of XP in Resolve for a Reason
Word Count: Low
  • Stand your ground. Hazou has been clear about who he wants to kill.
    • It was Hazou who killed an eldritch beast even the Sage never did, and the rest are on his menu.
    • Akane's killers need to die.
    • There are plenty of scum in this world that need to be killed, like the pedophile whose head Hazou smashed like a grape. If this world is Jashin's garden then the weeds should be picked so the flowers can flourish. It's as Hidan said, to Jashin all lives are equal, so Jashin is perfectly accepting of Hazou's choice of sacrifice, and all the happier for making his world better in the meantime.
    • Hidan asks if Hazou is doubting Jashin's choice, but Hidan's questioning sounds like Hidan is doubting Jashin's choice of chosen.
    • It's not a matter of reluctance to kill, it's about an appropriate target, and it was Hidan who asked Hazou to pick targets for him, trusting his judgement. Hazou has made it clear who is his target.
Is there room for something like "Thank Hidan for telling us about the murder-qoutas."?

Goal is to move the tone a bit away from "How dare you, I'll do it my way!" to "Thanks, I will, but I insist on doing it my way".
Keep all the particular points, they're well argued.
 
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[X] Action Plan: Big Steel Ones
Word count: <300
  • Use SSA. See through the Paint.
    • Read Hidan as best we can.
  • How is between If it's blood Jashin needs, our hands are soaked.
    • How is between us and Jashin, and we can never even hint of it in front of Asuma, but we personally were responsible for hundreds if not thousands of deaths. Not just our orders - real and direct action without which hundreds if not thousands would still be alive.
  • But even if they weren't? This village? No.
    • We've done this dance before. Jashin picked us.
      • The greatest sin is mercy. Jashin demanded that Hidan commit that sin, over and over.
      • Why is Hidan so intent on testing us, over and over? Why is he repeating these tests? Samey-samey.
    • Jashin could have chosen anyone. He chose us.
      • Because we can do things Hidan can't, that no one else can. Why?
      • Because we're different. We are not the same.
      • And Hidan is trying to make us the same.
  • Jashin is the god of life and the god of death. The end of life is more and more certain, and with it, the end of death.
    • The game is coming to a close, the players packing up their pieces. Hidan has seen it. It's happening too soon.
    • We mean to keep it going a few rounds more.
    • We will defeat the Dragons and save the Paths.
    • We will wrench humanity out of its downward spiral.
    • Because of what we are. And we will not change to suit a man's preconceptions.
  • If we find ourselves in need of more of Jashin's favour, we will be in touch.
    • But in the meantime, we have abominations to seal, rifts to open, and a woman to woo.
    • He can come find us when he's found Akane's killers. Them? We'll kill with a song in our heart.
  • Go home.
 
Jashin could have chosen anyone. He chose us.
  • Because we can do things Hidan can't, that no one else can. Why?
  • Because we're different. We are not the same.
  • And Hidan is trying to make us the same.
I find this extremely persuasive. "We serve Jashin through different means than Hidan, even if we don't understand them". Thanks for managing to write it well, I was having trouble.

How is between If it's blood Jashin needs, our hands are soaked.
  • How is between us and Jashin, and we can never even hint of it in front of Asuma, but we personally were responsible for hundreds if not thousands of deaths. Not just our orders - real and direct action without which hundreds if not thousands would still be alive.
It's public knowlage that the giant death storm was Hazou's sealing failure. I'd rather not say anything to Hidan that might make him think more about it, or wonder if it's repeatable/deliberate.

For the love of Jashin our agency, don't outright mention this.
 
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[X] We Put Thousands of XP in Resolve for a Reason
Word Count: Low
  • Thank Hidan for telling us about the murder-qoutas, but stand your ground. Hazou has been clear about who he wants to kill.
    • It was Hazou who killed an eldritch beast even the Sage never did, and the rest are on his menu.
    • Akane's killers need to die.
    • There are plenty of scum in this world that need to be killed, like the pedophile whose head Hazou smashed like a grape. If this world is Jashin's garden then the weeds should be picked so the flowers can flourish. It's as Hidan said, to Jashin all lives are equal, so Jashin is perfectly accepting of Hazou's choice of sacrifice, and all the happier for making his world better in the meantime.
    • Hidan asks if Hazou is doubting Jashin's choice, but Hidan's questioning sounds like Hidan is doubting Jashin's choice of chosen.
    • It's not a matter of reluctance to kill, it's about an appropriate target, and it was Hidan who asked Hazou to pick targets for him, trusting his judgement. Hazou has made it clear who is his target.

I find this extremely persuasive. "We serve Jashin through different means than Hidan, even if we don't understand them".
Adding something like this would probably improve your plan.
 
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Doubtful. If Hazou says "How many you want me to kill? 10?" Hidan will clarify that in a single sentence. And it's important to know for feasible plans like paying people's families to kill them so Hidan doesn't slaughter them all.
Hidan strikes me as a "I know it when I see it" sort of person. As mentioned earlier, the greatest virtue in Jashinism is conviction: Hidan will be much happier with a Hazou who boldly marches forward on whatever his plan is than a Hazou who continually waffles and looks to Hidan for guidance.

Genuinely, I think we would save lives by not asking for a number here. Our goal is to make Hidan happy enough to let us leave the rest of the village in peace, which means every point we score from non-murdery sources subtracts from the number of lives we have to take before he's satisfied. If we walk in and set up some twisted death game where some of them may live but others will have to die, the spectacle may even entertain Hidan enough for us to let the majority of the village flee into the night.

Of course, that's still far from optimal to say the least and I'm fond of FS's plan right now, but if we do find ourselves going down the murder route we should ask no questions, make no barters, don't stall for time or try to appeal our case. If we end up having to murder, we do it right for the sake of all the people here we'll be able to save by play-acting Hidan's perfect slaughter disciple.
 
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Sacrificing civilians for Hidan/Jashin is not that dissimilar from sacrificing Ninja to Orochimaru's final gift program. Innocents die to appease an S-ranker and get them to help (or at least not interfere with) uplift. Tragic on a smaller, more personal scale to give Hazo time to grow and effect change on a grand scale.

Which bring me to the idea of having a lotto or accepting prisoners or whatever from a dozen or so villages which Hazo would then sacrifice in Jashin's name. Gold to the family and stuff like that. Villages can grow and prosper from the trade of the village idiot or old man jenkins.

yes, this is very ethically disturbing but I have a hard time beliving Hidan is gonna just go away and let Hazo continue to not kill anybody in peace so this is where my brain is at. Hazo could really pump those murder numbers up without drastically impacting the local villages at all. Or even impact them in a good way if they can then reinvest the gold in a till'n'fill type mission or something like that.

Look, I don't want this, but I want to randomly walk into a peaceful village and kill everybody even less. If we can modify the selection process in such a way that it's mostly 'voluntary' or 'acceptable' sacrifices, that'd be way better. And we might also find out if Jashin is real if he actually starts helping us. (and we need to know it's real before we can figure out how to kill it)




Edit: Just for clarity's sake, I don't approve of any plan that bows down to Hidan's demand and starts killing the villagers in front of us. I do approve of the plans that stand firm in Hazo's conviction and has him give some variation of "not these people, not today, not even because you said so". HOWEVER I don't feel like such a plan will have the result we want unless we basically appease hidan by promising to start making sacrifices for Jashin. If not these people today, then some other people tomorrow will have to do. So I'm trying to think about that right now, who how and when, to appease Hidan and prevent a slaughter, knowing we might later have to follow through with whatever we're promising.
 
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Also, we should really ask Asuma if we can be the one to deliver executions in Leaf from now on. There's gonna be a next Hidan visit, sooner or later, and this is what he does if Hazou hasn't been killing people in the meantime. I don't know how often execution happens but it does happen, Hazou's had to do it once before just within the Goketsu. If we can save the lives of innocent civilians by having Hazou deal the killing blow, that's an unmitigated win for us and for the people of Fire.

Or maybe we'll finally kick Hidan of this habit if something like FS' plan works really well, but we should probably keep this in mind. Hidan keeps doing this and we should really find a way to put his fragile little heart at ease before he stacks even more sins on Hazou's conscience.
 
We should also probably get clarification on how many he wants us to kill. Also explain that our seals are like his scythe, at least in actual battle. They should count.
Hidan strikes me as a "I know it when I see it" sort of person. As mentioned earlier, the greatest virtue in Jashinism is conviction: Hidan will be much happier with a Hazou who boldly marches forward on whatever his plan is than a Hazou who continually waffles and looks to Hidan for guidance.

Genuinely, I think we would save lives by not asking for a number here. Our goal is to make Hidan happy enough to let us leave the rest of the village in peace, which means every point we score from non-murdery sources subtracts from the number of lives we have to take before he's satisfied. If we walk in and set up some twisted death game where some of them may live but others will have to die, the spectacle may even entertain Hidan enough for us to let the majority of the village flee into the night.

Of course, that's still far from optimal to say the least and I'm fond of FS's plan right now, but if we do find ourselves going down the murder route we should ask no questions, make no barters, don't stall for time or try to appeal our case. If we end up having to murder, we do it right for the sake of all the people here we'll be able to save by play-acting Hidan's perfect slaughter disciple.

I really think this:
[] Kill the oldest 1/3rd of the population. Justify to Hidan that we are harvesting the ripe crop, and leaving the rest to grow and multiply.

This is enormously fucked up and monstrous. This is a establishing a lower bound on how many people we can save without getting murdered by an insane S-ranker.

Now let's come up with something better, that actually saves everyone.
Is by far our best option, out of possible plans that involve Hazou slaughtering anyone.

It's decisive and brutal, earning Hidan's approval. It lets us frame when this test is "done", preserving as much life as I think we can get away with. It demonstrates with the principles Hidan wants us to have. He may even appreciate our perspective, although he'd do it differently. It also gives us a perfectly consistent case to argue against killing more of them, while still playing "good jashinite".

That said, I'd really rather turn our efforts to not blithely massacring innocents. I don't expect to spend more time discussing how to optimally kill these people unless the thread genuinely can't come up with something better.

There was a reason I chose to immediately lay out (what it think is) the optimal murder plan, then challenge the thread to do radically better.
 
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the finger on the scales we are handing to the sketchy god jashin is probably more important than the deaths.
edit: like suppose this allows jashin to do mass murder somewhere. or bind hazou's mind
 
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..... This is going to end with Hazou being a second high priest of Jashin and gaining the ability of eternal death isn't it

I'm surprised none of you have thought of just going like all right come along I need you to start tracking where her killers are
 
[x] Action Plan: Jashin Take the Wheel
Word count: <400.
  • Mindset: Prepare to slaughter these people.
    • Your theological arguments won't work if Hidan thinks they're a rationalization. You can't deceive him. Avoiding the massacre requires becoming genuinely willing to commit it.
    • Put on extreme-utilitarian glasses. Recognize these people's global unimportance compared to your agenda. Imagine Akane's killers in their place. Commit to resurrect them. Recall how much of the world's brokenness stems from people's own choices; everyone, including those villagers, is complicit. Dip into Out to see them as meatsacks. Whatever works.
    • If your ploy fails? Yup, slaughter them.
    • Conviction is the greatest virtue.
  • Thus resolved, start a theological argument. Not because you want to save these people; let go of that. Do it because you think Hidan is failing Jashin.
    • Guideline: don't be boring.
      • Be dynamic, passionate. Field arguments proactively, don't get stuck on details.
      • Dip into Out for better insight into alien mentality.
    • Hidan said Jashin's all about balance. The world is not in balance. Humanity is projected to go extinct within the century, and then there'd be no birth nor deaths, just the suffering-incapable beasts.
    • Hidan's unaimed slaughters are a contributing factor. Those buffets may please Jashin short-term, but they're like eating the seeds while the whole crop's failing. What needs killing are the weeds threatening civilization: those defecting against it, the warhawks, monstrosities like the Dragons.
    • Why else'd Jashin chosen Hazou, whose ideology is so far from Hidan's modus operandi? Why'd he favoured Hazou so blatantly? Does Hidan think Jashin chose wrong?
    • If Jashin governs life and death... Hidan has death covered. But who preserves life?
      • Implication: your role?
  • Which's all just speculation, of course. Hidan refused to explain the metaphysics; but you're refusing to do things on his say-so.
    • If Hidan's just being an essie and wants to make you kill people for funsies, all talk of "Jashin" a rationalization? Makes sense.
    • If Hidan wants to actually serve Jashin? He better convince you this slaughter is net-beneficial.
  • Play it by ear from there.
    • Don't resurrect your desire to save these people; don't rationalize reasons why Jashin won't want this slaughter.
    • Genuinely determine whether it's what benefits Jashin. Accept the conclusion.
    • Perhaps Jashin's mechanically restricted: only able to empower its disciples for killing. If so, you're willing to do it — but in serviceof Civilization, not by harming it. You have your own kill list.
      • (If Hidan wants short-term targets: suggest hunting bandits.)


Kudos to Zerovirus on Discord for the core idea.
 
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Use SSA. See through the Paint.
  • Read Hidan as best we can.
My initial thought was that getting a mental consequence right now is a terrible idea, but a brief conversation shouldn't be enough to cause one. Reminder that Hazo currently has two mild mental consequences.
The game is coming to a close, the players packing up their pieces. Hidan has seen it. It's happening too soon.
Possibly worth bringing up that Hidan's Jashin-dreams seem to indicate he should stop killing people.
Please don't mention this.
He can come find us when he's found Akane's killers
:( But it would be so fun to go with.
 
[X] Tell Hidan about EM Nukes, ask if those sacrifices are sufficient
Hidan already mentioned that unless we killed with our own jutsu/weapons he wouldn't count it as a sacrifice. EM nukes are Akane's jutsu, so while it would make Hidan fonder of Akane, it wouldn't do anything for Hazou.

[] Kill the oldest 1/3rd of the population. Justify to Hidan that we are harvesting the ripe crop, and leaving the rest to grow and multiply.

This is enormously fucked up and monstrous. This is a establishing a lower bound on how many people we can save without getting murdered by an insane S-ranker.

I agree, this is the worst we should do. As others have suggested, I think it'd be far more palatable to gently but firmly tell Hidan to F off, that - beyond logical arguments like "that village is an investment we made and it goes against our interest to kill them" - there's plenty of *lovely* sacrifices around in the form of bandits and criminals.


  • How is between If it's blood Jashin needs, our hands are soaked.
    • we personally were responsible for hundreds if not thousands of deaths. Not just our orders - real and direct action without which hundreds if not thousands would still be alive.
  • But even if they weren't? This village? No.
    • We've done this dance before. Jashin picked us.
      • The greatest sin is mercy. Jashin demanded that Hidan commit that sin, over and over.
      • Why is Hidan so intent on testing us, over and over? Why is he repeating these tests? Samey-samey.
    • Jashin could have chosen anyone. He chose us.
      • Because we can do things Hidan can't, that no one else can. Why?
      • Because we're different. We are not the same.
      • And Hidan is trying to make us the same.
  • Jashin is the god of life and the god of death. The end of life is more and more certain, and with it, the end of death.
    • The game is coming to a close, the players packing up their pieces. Hidan has seen it. It's happening too soon.
    • We mean to keep it going a few rounds more.
    • Because of what we are. And we will not change to suit a man's preconceptions.
  • If we find ourselves in need of more of Jashin's favour, we will be in touch.
    • But in the meantime, we have abominations to seal, rifts to open, and a woman to woo.
    • He can come find us when he's found Akane's killers. Them? We'll kill with a song in our heart.
  • Go home.
  • (Same as my response to Faflec) How exactly the use of EM Nukes our direct responsability? Hidan wants us to kill with our own hands, and unless we were the one to use the EM jutsu, it doesn't count.
  • Sounds good; how we fill our "quota" is our business, not Hidan's. We can promise to fill it this month (though how do we know if we killed enough?) through a mission by killing bandits or something. We can also talk to Asuma to let us execute death prisoners so we can keep the charade going.
  • I like this point a lot: if Jashin is about balance, then we can't let life die. We want to restore balance by increasing the number of births, and killing off villages goes against restoring balance. Also, is it possible that Jashin wants us the be the counterpart of Hidan? If Hidan symbolizes massacres and deaths, then could we be births and life?

I will also note that "if all lives are equal then we can choose who we want to kill" will probably not convince Hidan. He'll just be confused and reply "why wait for another opportunity, why choose if it's all the same anyway?".

Dumb idea: if we have to build a temple, how about we use a brothel? Sounds fitting. Not sure about those virgin sacrifices though. (edit: it would probably destroy our reputation, though making the Hagoromo foam at the mouth sounds delectable)
 
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I'm surprised none of you have thought of just going like all right come along I need you to start tracking where her killers are
On an emotional level, I agree, it would be very satisfying. But is it a good idea to drop everything we have going on for this, right now? There might be some heavy political consequences depending on who we kill, though honestly with Hidan there we could always push for an AMITY sanctioned retaliation. Also, It would buy us some time to find better sacrifices on the way.
I am not against it, but I am not convinced it's the optimal play either.

edit: Twin mentioned on Discord that Hidan gave us the answer to his 'test' when he said that "mercy is a sin" and "conviction is a virtue". I think we can definitely push on this: we are not being merciful by letting these people live, we are avoiding further imbalance - Humanity is dying btw- and reaping those lives is depriving Jashing of sacrifices down the line. I do have sacrifices in mind, wanna go on a Jashing pilgrimage rn? We can ask him more about his dreams on the way and hopefully make him understand that perhaps Jashin WANTS more lives/prosperity/civilization than deaths right now.
I think what Hidan really wants right now is for Hazou to fill his quota. We need to provide an immediate alternative to distract Hidan from killing the village anyway.
 
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"Hey!" Hidan said, taking the pot and a cup. "I think he's precious. Look, kid, you ain't gonna be the first to try to win me over with…"
"Ah, never mind. You're not the first to try, but you're the first to succeed," Hidan said.
Chadzō.jpg
It's awesome seeing Hazō pull off a stunt like this. Feels like he's come far.

"Fuck that, I did my part. You fiddle with the numbers and the ryō. C'mon, kid," he said, gesturing at Hazō to follow. "We gotta lotta catchin' up to do."
Damn, he's charming.

Say, I heard you were makin' some strides towards real equality in this town. Lord Jashin likes that. He thinks everyone's equal, man or woman, ninja or civilian. Can I buy men in this town's whorehouses yet?"
Uh, glad that Jashin is progressive? Although I don't think that helps our image.

"No temple!? No massacres!? Sage's blood, you don't even have a convert? What have you been doing these past two years?"
To be fair it's not as if Hidan bothered to make sure Hazō was catechized. Also, two whole years? Damn.

If it can't suffer, it ain't worth puttin' out of its misery, y'know?
...This has some interesting implications for Jashinite theology. Or maybe Hidan just says shit.

"I'd bet you're behind on your quota! We gotta patch that up for you. Just to be safe, kill humans."
Those are rookie numbers, you've got to get those numbers up.

"Hidan, you didn't exactly give me any scripture to go by. Lord Jashin may be guiding me, but I don't know what I should be doing to worship or spread the message."
Exactly!

"There's two things you gotta do," Hidan said. "One: slaughter people in his name. No chakra beasts, no clones, no wishy-washy 'oh but I technically was responsible for his death if you look at it this way'. Actual, real slaughter. Two: convince other people to do the same. It's easy enough because people like a god that gives back. Build a temple, give some sermons, sacrifice a couple virgins, and they come flockin' in."
Thank you for the clarification, Hidan. We might have some trouble actually doing this...

"If you meet someone claiming to hear the voice of a god in their head, you better kill them even more than usual. They cut out Lord Jashin's tongue. You'll never hear him speak."
Holy forbidden lore, batman!

They're all lying to themselves, Hazō. That's why you gotta be honest and actually rip out people's viscera when you feel the desire in your heart. Got it?
Did an eaglejarl write this?

"S-rank escort mission," Hidan said, pointing his thumb at his chest. "'Cuz you're escortin' an S-ranker. Now c'mon."
That makes a surprising amount of sense.

"Dragons, huh? Makes me wish I was a summoner so I could go out there and sacrifice one to Lord Jashin. Maybe I'll massacre a few towns extra and pray real hard so the Lord can point me to a scroll."
We could just tell him about the otter scroll. It is a quest from Jashin... and it's not as if we'll be able to complete it ourselves anytime soon.

Hazō turned, but saw only empty forest.
Level alertness, chump!

"Remember Hazō, the greatest sin is mercy, and these peasants don't matter. You want Lord Jashin to give you a hand? Lord Jashin helps those who help themselves."

"So," Hidan said, gesturing broadly with his scythe to the growing population of the town that was coming out of their houses and bowing to the two ninja atop the walls that penned them in. "Help yourself."
I'd be fine with it tbh. Unless it drastically changes Hazō's characterization.
 
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