- Location
- Fifth Dimension
Are they? Is a chunin combatant being scared of a beyond S-rank threat not appropriate?
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
Are they? Is a chunin combatant being scared of a beyond S-rank threat not appropriate?
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Boosting this.
Macerators V4.0 proposed mechanics
Increase ejection speed significantly to 50 m/s, providing a Taijutsu boost of +12/+9/+6/+3/+0 at a range of Melee/Range:0/Range:1/Range:2/Range:3
Increase ejection speed significantly to 50 m/s, providing a Taijutsu boost of +12/+9/+6/+3/+0 at a range of Melee/Range:0/Range:1/Range:2/Range:3
- Location
- Italy
Are we just going to the Archaeopteryx island regardless of what Enma does? Because we risk remaining stuck there while the Conclave start or leaving Kagome alone.
Also, the plan read to me as " Use Clones for Directional explosive" and if directional explosives is difficult...well things could end up badly, maybe we could clarify to use clone if feasible, otherwise use SSA.
Finally could i ask why Darkness Seals instead of Banshee Lovers(Bonus to Alertness) or Macerators?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I think that it should probably be a little more incremental than that, myself. We can't even fire them at Range:2 and that's jumping all the way to range: 3 with double the bonus.
- Location
- Italy
How much was the jump between V2 and V3? IIRC 5m/s so this upgrade would be...
WC optimized below 300
I don't think we're going to Archaeopteryx if Enma doesn't. But also I don't see how Hazou could possibly get stuck there. He just unsummons and returns to the Horizon Chasers.
The clones all have SSA, if Kagome is helping we have to do maximum prep. So that's what we'll do probably.
Darkness seals because I think they'll be easy. I'll put in Banshee Lovers, that's a good idea.
It was 5 m/s, we finished it in 2 days without SSA. I was aiming for something much more substantial.
Implemented suggested changes
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Oh. I haven't really been following thread discussion much and I thought that there was some reason not to do it that was either mentioned or obvious enough that it didn't need to be mentioned to regular voters. Because otherwise "when travel is long and dangerous by land, go by air instead" was the first thought that I had. And Cannai said that it would be long and dangerous before we chose the route.
I may be mistaken, but didn't they leave already?
Do we know if Mites are suitable diplomatic representatives? As is, this part of the plan might be interpreted as bringing them merely as observers/witnesses.
I think I am missing something. How would we ever get stuck there? If we unsummmon we can reappear with the Horizon Seekers right after.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
[X] Action Plan: Here be Dragonsssss
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If we where only a chunnin combatant you might have an argument. But we are also an S-rank seal master. We claimed that we can hang with the big guys so now we gotta walk the walk
- Location
- Yes.
[x] Action Plan: Sssealing, Sssorcery
Also, here's a fork of @Sir Stompy's plan, with removal of GS history (why would Oro/Enma know?) and replacement of the Sealing section with MadScientist's prepwork for the Conclave.
[X] Action Plan: Here be Dragonsorcery
Word Count: ???
Also, here's a fork of @Sir Stompy's plan, with removal of GS history (why would Oro/Enma know?) and replacement of the Sealing section with MadScientist's prepwork for the Conclave.
[X] Action Plan: Here be Dragonsorcery
Word Count: ???
- Arrange Hebiue's stay
- Aim for reasonable level of comfort
- Bring her stuff from Leaf if she wants
- Sanity check with Mari/Kei
- Visit the Great Seal with Oro and Enma (if he desires)
- Make sure both of them have been briefed on the Dragons
- Include the report in the missive sent to Oro
- Use the tunnel to approach and examine the foundations for cracking
- Once the Dragons have been baited, examine the butte
- Attempt to get a look at one of the Dragons, use the telescope if necessary
- If Oro brings up memorizing the Great Seal, do not engage.
- Make sure both of them have been briefed on the Dragons
- Ask Enma if he would like to visit Archaeopteryx to see firsthand what the Dragons can do
- Wait until after Oro and Hebiue are not around. Do not mention this around them.
- We could also bring back (part of) one of the dead Dragons for the Conclave.
- If Enma's interested, bring Kagome to the island with you and ask Kumokugo for some Arachnid escorts
- Try to retrieve one of the Dragons killed by the Archaeopteryx
- Could Enma bring Arachnids (mites?) to Conclave?
- Ask Enma how long his journey to Pangolin will take
- Do the prep-work for making an entrance at the summon expo with your extended team. Time for showmanship.
- Research beforehand a combatwise-useless seal(s) that looks visually stunning (lights, coloured smoke, fireworks, giant bubbles, that sort of thing), to be set off as you walk in in formation.
- Get a hype-man to announce you all.
- Choreograph and rehearse your grand entrance in advance, with Mari as director.
- Practice cooperating socially as a team. Prepare tactics to work together to get Seventhians on task and keep them there, and to shut down/deflect bullshit.
- Maybe research a seal to produce a life-size hologram of the dragon Hazou killed, if plausible.
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Hasn't Oro just slipped a snake under our collar? For all we know he might be able to listen in on anything we're saying.
- Location
- Yes.
Fixed. @Sir Stompy this should go to you as well.
We're dropping her off right away, returning to Leaf for 2 days and then examining the GS. No idea how she could listen in after that.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The Condors in Arachnid left to rejoin Conjura and the Wings of Liberty. Last you heard, Contorite wished to testify about the importance of the Dragon problem, but was afraid to go to Pangolin where the only Condors at the Conclave are enslaved ones. Ruri can confirm that she has contact with him, and can ask him to go to the Conclave if you can make it safe for him. If you want Contorite present, you'll need to negotiate a way for him to retain his freedom in front of the Pangolins who functionally see him as part of a terrorist group.
- Location
- Yes.
Thank you, and edits made.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Noburi has 126 Sunny XP. I will update this action plan to reflect that, here in a bit.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Because that part is talking to Enma from what I can tell, so it would be on the 7th Path
Rules update regarding buffs
- Location
- USA
PSA: Players are being buffed
Straight talk, executive summary: We're making a rule change for reasons we think are critically important. It's going to flatten the maximum power levels across the setting, which is hugely in your favor, but it's also going to result in a reduction of everyone's punching power in the short term, and 'everyone' includes both the Gōketsu and people like Orochimaru. More importantly, it's going to keep the QMs from getting exhausted, so please be charitable.
In the wake of the Neck and Hyena battles, the QMs have been discussing the nature of combat in MfD as well as its correspondence to canon!Naruto. We have been lamenting the complexity of the mechanics and the resulting exhaustion felt while writing combats. The essence of the issue is the number of things that need to be tracked for every roll. It's not enough to say "Hazō's Taijutsu is X and Baddy McBadGuy's Athletics is Y, roll, okay, Hazō hits." Instead we have to remember to add in macerators and pangolin gauntlets and chakra boost (oh, wait, should that be Pantokrator's Hammer or is it better to do regular boost so as to affect all rolls?) and rocket boots and tags from Flashbang seals and tags from Banshee seals and invocations and and and… Forgetting any of these things is a big deal, because it could result in Hazō (or whoever else that we all like) getting hurt or killed. Furthermore, FtD combat was explicitly designed to be fast and highly lethal. Taking a single wound makes it far more likely that you're going to lose the combat, so if the QM forgets one particular buff then it can have serious consequences. It's stressful and a huge drain on energy and attention, making it harder to write a good scene.
The Gōketsu are strong because they have lots of things that each grant a small bonus and can all be used on the same attack. As an example:
Akane: 54 (Taijutsu) + 12 (PKH) + 6 (Shōryuken) + 6 (Banshee) + 6 (Flashbang) + 6 (Wide-angle Blast Rings) + 6 (Youthful Fist of the Mythological Beast That is Really Strong and Tough) + 9 (three tags from Flame Aura) + 6 (invoke "YOUTHFUL Taijutsu Star") + 6 (invoke "Equals at Last") + 6 (invoke "Team Uplift") - 1 (PCJ) + 3 (dice) = 123.
The players are strongly motivated to create more and more advantages, which is going to make fights harder and harder for us to write. Indeed, even EJ has said that he found the Hyena fight exhausting and much less fun to write than, for example, the straightforward punching of Let the Bodies Hit the Floor, which was a blast.
The implications for the setting are profound. Clans have had centuries to build up advantages, and most clans have had plenty of sealmasters and technique hackers in their past. If the Gōketsu can put together 60+ points worth of advantages in a couple of years, why aren't Nara genin attacking at 95 as a standard thing? Leave aside the question of S-rankers and jōnin, which is the bulk of what the players are going to be dealing with in the future as you climb higher and higher up the political and economic ladders. If we want to keep the quest simulationist then we need to come up with 20 or 30 buffs for each of those people.
We'd like to get out ahead of this before it completely breaks us.
We started looking around to see how we might handle it, and we went back to canon!Naruto because MfD tries to pay respect to the source material where the source material makes sense. What we noticed is that, in canon, powerful ninja are usually defined by general skill and a small number of powerful techniques. Examples include:
- Hiruzen: Summoning
- Nagato: Many individually strong abilities that don't reinforce one another
- Itachi: Mangekyō Sharingan (a garbage pile of random ridiculousness but not self-reinforcing ridiculousness, with the exception of basic Sharingan precognition adding to taijutsu)
- A: Lightning Release Chakra Mode, powerful taijutsu
- Ōnoki: Flight, Dust Element disintegration
- Gai: Eight Gates, Strong Fist, summoning (in theory)
- Minato: Flying Thunder God, Rasengan, summoning
- Tsunade: Strength of a Hundred, Creation Rebirth, powerful taijutsu
- Jiraiya: Sage Mode (Frog Kata, sage ninjutsu), Rasengan, summoning
- Gaara: Sand control, passive sand armour, jinchūriki chakra reserves
- Kakashi: Sharingan, Chidori, summoning (rarely)
- Orochimaru: Regen, immortality + body theft, biomodifications, cursed seal/nature chakra, unique ninjutsu, summoning
Note the pattern: most extremely powerful ninja can combine only two major advantages together in a single attack. Even Orochimaru, who practically has "powers as the plot demands", can only combine a small number of them on any single attack.
We're creating a new rule to save our sanity and bring us closer to canon: by default, a given roll can only be buffed by one active thing unless you have stunts that allow you to use multiple buffs together. If there are multiple effects running that would normally all benefit that roll then we'll use the strongest combination of them. For example, let's say you're running Ghost Scales and Flame Aura at the same time, and they are giving you:
- Ghost Scales: +3 to Taijutsu and 3 points of armor
- Flame Aura: +16 to Taijutsu from tags and Stealth reduced to 0.
You would fight with +16 from the tags, 3 points of armor, and Stealth of 0.
A quick bit of meta before we get to the mechanics: is this a nerf to you? Well, yes, from one perspective. Akane can no longer roll 123 on her attacks. On the other hand, it's also a significant bonus because you aren't going to be facing off against enemy chūnin who can roll 123 on their attacks. Hazō is extremely squishy because you've mostly invested in research stats and FOOM components; this new rule significantly reduces the level of the threats he's going to be facing and therefore makes him far more survivable.
With that said, let's do mechanics:
The new rule, short version: By default a given roll can benefit from any number of passive or innate bonuses (e.g. bloodlines and chakra boost) but only one active bonus (e.g. jutsu, seals) In order to use more than one active advantage at a time, you can buy stunts that let you use particular combinations together. In order to preserve narrative consistency as much as possible, we are awarding 300 XP for you to spend on such stunts.
The new rule, long version:
- Passive abilities such as the +3 from the Iron Nerve are unaffected and will combine with anything.
- Innate abilities such as chakra boost are unaffected and will combine with anything.
- All jutsu continue to work as they currently do. Ghost Scales still provides both armor and Taijutsu bonus, Flame Aura still provides multiple tags, etc.
- When you use active abilities (e.g. martial arts styles, blast rings, rocket boot seals, ninjutsu, etc.) to affect a single roll then by default only the highest bonus is used.
- In order to benefit from multiple abilities on a single roll, you must purchase stunts that represent a specific combination of abilities.
- To benefit from two abilities, you buy one stunt, for example "Macerators + Ghost Scales" or "macerators + fire jutsu".
- In order to benefit from three abilities, you must have purchased the stunts to combine each pair of abilities, then purchase another stunt that combines all three. E.g. If you want to use macerators + Ghost Scales + Flame Aura on a single roll then you must buy all four of the following stunts:
- Macerators + Ghost Scales
- Macerators + fire jutsu
- Fire jutsu + Ghost Scales
- Macerators + Ghost Scales + fire jutsu
- You may not have a single roll benefit from more than three abilities without extremely strong narrative justification.
- You cannot have a single roll benefit from two jutsu of the same element.
- All jutsu of a particular element are interchangeable for purposes of these stunts. If you have bought "macerators + fire jutsu" then you can use Flame Aura, Fireball, etc. with your macerators, although only one jutsu at a time.
- Non-elemental techniques are not interchangeable. You need separate stunts for "Ghost Scales + macerators" and "Pantokrator's Hammer + macerators".
- A stunt to combine two buffs costs 100 XP. A stunt to combine three buffs costs 200 XP.
- In order to purchase the stunt, the buffs must combine narratively. It is important to consider whether or not abilities will combine narratively before you invest in them. "Ghost Scales + Flame Aura" is an example of something that works (it both rips and burns and they work at the same range) whereas "Ghost Scales + blast rings" does not (the blast rings are inside the Ghost Scales shell so they destroy it upon firing).
- This applies to any numerical bonus directly associated with a ninjutsu (or seal or stunt or etc). E.g.:
- Hōzuki's Mantle gives +⅓ of its level to a close-combat skill.
- Flame Aura tags.
- FP-paid invocations of ninjutsu Aspects, like FP-paid invocations of "Power of the Pangolin" from Pantokrator's Hammer.
Exceptions:
- Some buffs do not stack.
- As normal, you may not use multiple Martial Arts styles on a single roll.
- You may not benefit from multiple boosts from ninjutsu of the same element on a single roll.
- Similarities:
- As mentioned above, elemental ninjutsu of the same element are covered by the same stunt.
- If Yuno buys "Lightning Hammer" to combine Thunderburst with Pantokrator's Hammer, then later learns Overdrive, a stronger Lightning ninjutsu, she may use Lightning Hammer to combine Overdrive with Pantokrator's Hammer without buying a new stunt.
- Different versions of a given seal are covered by the same stunt.
- If you upgrade macerators, all old stunts apply.
- Both types of blast rings are covered by the same stunt.
- As mentioned above, elemental ninjutsu of the same element are covered by the same stunt.
- Some bonuses are exempt from limits and can be combined with any other bonus. These include:
- Aspects, either invoked or tagged
- Chakra boost
- Built-in ninjutsu advantages, such as the +AB bonus that is part of the Water Dragon Bullet jutsu
- Passive bloodlines (Iron Nerve's +3)
- NOTE: These are the only exempt items that currently exist and likely ever will exist.
- Combination bonuses:
- A few advantages are so deeply intertwined that they are considered one buff. The only example that we've identified thus far is Explosion Master: the Explosion Master fighting style requires that you have blast rings on. You get to use both the fighting style bonus and the blast rings bonus without it counting against the buff limit.
- Debuffs are unchanged – you still suffer all debuffs (e.g. PCJ + PEA), and you may debuff your enemies without limit.
Examples:
Noburi has the following abilities:
- Water Whip (50). This is a close combat skill.
- Hōzuki's Mantle at 20. The text of HM says that it adds +⅓ HM level (20/3 rounded up = 7) to any close combat skill. HM is a water-element jutsu.
- Rocket Boot seals that will grant +8 (arbitrarily chosen)
- Up to 5 points of chakra boost
Without getting a stunt, Noburi can gain the full value from any of the following combinations:
- Water Whip
- Water Whip + chakra boost
- Water Whip + Hōzuki's Mantle
- Water Whip + Hōzuki's Mantle + chakra boost (CB is explicitly exempt from limits)
- Water Whip + Rocket Boots
- Water Whip + Rocket Boots + chakra boost
Noburi could buy a stunt that would allow him to combine the Rocket Boots seals with water-element jutsu (of which Hōzuki's Mantle is an example). He could then gain full value from any of the above plus:
- Water Whip + Rocket Boots + Hōzuki's Mantle
- Water Whip + Rocket Boots + Hōzuki's Mantle + chakra boost
Suppose he wants to use Water Whip + Rocket Boots + Hōzuki's Mantle + chakra boost without having the stunt? He can do it, sure, but he will only get the benefit from the Rocket Boots, since that bonus is greater than what HM provides.
Here is the same thing but said in a more numerical and broken-out fashion:
- Noburi:
- He uses Water Whip, base 50.
- He adds +5 from his chakra boost. This does not count as a buff, as it is an innate bonus.
- He rolls 55.
- He uses Water Whip (50) + Hōzuki's Mantle (level 20). The text of HM says that it adds +⅓ HM level (20/3 rounded up = 7) to his Water Whip score.
- He adds +5 from chakra boost.
- He adds +7 from Hōzuki's Mantle. This counts as his buff for the technique.
- He rolls 62.
- Without buying a stunt to combine the two, Noburi uses Rocket Boots and Hōzuki's Mantle together. He only gets the benefit of the Rocket Boots, as they provide the larger numerical benefit.
- He adds +5 from chakra boost.
- He adds +8 from Rocket Boots.
- He rolls 63.
- He still gets the non-numerical effects of Hōzuki's Mantle: Armor:2 against multiple opponents, Athletics penalty, and bonus to dodge ranged attacks.
- Noburi buys the "Rocket Octopus" stunt which allows him to combine Rocket Boots and any one water-element jutsu.
- He adds +5 from chakra boost.
- He adds +7 from Hōzuki's Mantle.
- He adds +8 from Rocket Boots.
- He rolls 70.
- He uses Water Whip, base 50.
- Akane:
- Wants to use Pantokrator's Hammer, Blast Rings, and Rocket Boots on a single roll. She needs:
- PKH + BR: "Explosions All Up In Your Face" – costs 100 XP
- PKH + RB: "Pangozoom" – costs 100 XP
- BR + RB: "Explosions from Both Ends" – costs 100 XP
- PKH + BR + RB: "Pangoboom" – costs 200 XP
- This costs 500 XP.
- She can then roll 54 + 12 (PKH) + 6 (YF) + 6 (BR) + 8 (RB) = 86.
- Wants to use Pantokrator's Hammer, Blast Rings, and Rocket Boots on a single roll. She needs:
As mentioned above, we're awarding a one-time bonus of 300 XP, which can only be used on two-buff-combination stunts. If you would like to use this XP award, please propose the stunts and vote in training plans by next week.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Er, because Oro already expressed that he knew something about it? When Hazou first made his model Oro was skeptical he found what he said he found. Oro may not know of the Great Seal specifically but it seems clear he knows about the Sage's capabilities and exploits in the past.
Enma OTOH has traveled all over the 7th Path multiple times. The Toads remembered the Dragons, who's to say others don't remember how it played out, including Monkey?
Who? Panda? A dog? Neji? It's kind of hard for me to imagine a hype man we can actually take seriously so an example would be nice. Unless we're trying to be silly? I don't really want to be silly at the Conclave though.