Unaligned Player
Agony that desires to meet Extinction
- Location
- Adrift between sanity and madness
- Pronouns
- Shrug
I'm willing to trust that this will be reasonably used by the QMs.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- Yes.
QMs: We foist off the hard work of implementing the rule onto the players. Whenever you want to train a skill above the cap, you have to point to an instance when it was used in a situation where stakes were present, indicating both the chapter and the consequences should the skill check have failed. We the QMs will tell you if the stakes justify raising the skill.
I think of 'risk' as additional bonus or extra rewards given to us for narrative tasks.
If people still improve cooking skills despite having no stake at all, let them. It would be unrealistic for people who are genuinely trying to challenge themselves to not uncap their skill level.
If on the other hand, they are doing something new but with also an addition of a stake, then they might gain extra XP as rewards for making the story more interesting.
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- Location
- USA
I'm sure this has been discussed extensively before, but I'm fairly new to participating, so forgive me if this is too much rehash.
I see a few factors that play into the current gameplay style being more reactive and risk adverse than the QMs might want.
Firstly, player investment in the protagonist's survival. There's no simple answer to this one - simply having some other perspectives for combat missions (e.g. Akane) as others have suggested seems to be the best workaround. Given the level of investment in Akane as well, it may be worth considering having some more expendible perspectives - perhaps a fresh KEI team (or even an AMI team - that could be fun) that the players aren't invested in directly yet, but would still have fun controlling. I'm not sure if this would be worth taking the time away from the "main" characters from a general player base or QM perspective, but it would be a way to consider doing more combat.
Secondly, our combat abilities are advancing very slowly (so far as I can tell), and a large part of this is, if I'm not mistaken, due to Shadow Clone optimization/FOOM. In my opinion, skills that can make XP go up faster are traps for optimizers - many optimisers (including myself) will feel obligated to min/max with them if they're present in the system, which reduces the ability to focus on skills that are more fun and meaningful for the character's development.
My suggestion here is probably going to be unpopular - remove any sort of attribute based advantage for Shadow Clones in terms of XP gain (e.g. Resolve benefits to XP). Give all the characters that have been training with FOOM some kind of FOOM based flat XP gain rate bonus when using shadow clones to compensate. Then, people only need to focus on leveling Shadow Clone if they want Shadow Clones to be a major part of their narrative or gameplay (e.g. Kei and Snowflake), not an XP optimizer thing. We can treat FOOM as still existing from a narrative standpoint as a form of optimized Shadow Clone training that Hazou designed (and thus can still be potentially learned by others, traded, etc.)
I would also consider rolling back XP spends on Resolve and allowing those to be "respeced" to some degree if you go this route. Reallocating some of our characters points from Resolve to other attributes would potentially allow them to be more combat viable, and thus potentially make it feel "better" to send them into the field.
Thirdly, the penalties from consequences make it so that Hazou is disincentivized from doing anything dangerous while he has consequences...which is a lot of the time. I understand the reasoning behind these debuffs, but I think they might actually be detrimental to gameplay. Narratively, they make a lot more sense than something like Hit Points, but they impact the decision making process in ways that may reduce the fun of the game (e.g. by making us take fewer risks).
Finally, in my opinion, there are existential threats (e.g. the Great Seal) that Hazou is better equipped to deal with than virtually anyone, whereas he's currently just barely a Chunin-level combatant. As such, doing anything like going to war seems like an inefficient use of Hazou's skills. This ties back into the whole Shadow Clone thing - basically, I think it'd be infinitely more reasonable to send Hazou out into the field if he had combat stats that warranted it, but he doesn't.
The proposed systems change (the soft caps/thresholds for skills) might address some of this, but for my own personal prioritization for things in the game, it wouldn't have much of an impact. It doesn't change my opinion on Hazou's priorities (fixing the seal is a good use of Hazou's skills, field missions is not, imo), nor would it change how I'd probably be training his skills (if I was involved in that process).
Again, I haven't been heavily involved in the quest, so much of this may be rehash or super obvious, but I thought I'd share in hopes of it being helpful.
I see a few factors that play into the current gameplay style being more reactive and risk adverse than the QMs might want.
Firstly, player investment in the protagonist's survival. There's no simple answer to this one - simply having some other perspectives for combat missions (e.g. Akane) as others have suggested seems to be the best workaround. Given the level of investment in Akane as well, it may be worth considering having some more expendible perspectives - perhaps a fresh KEI team (or even an AMI team - that could be fun) that the players aren't invested in directly yet, but would still have fun controlling. I'm not sure if this would be worth taking the time away from the "main" characters from a general player base or QM perspective, but it would be a way to consider doing more combat.
Secondly, our combat abilities are advancing very slowly (so far as I can tell), and a large part of this is, if I'm not mistaken, due to Shadow Clone optimization/FOOM. In my opinion, skills that can make XP go up faster are traps for optimizers - many optimisers (including myself) will feel obligated to min/max with them if they're present in the system, which reduces the ability to focus on skills that are more fun and meaningful for the character's development.
My suggestion here is probably going to be unpopular - remove any sort of attribute based advantage for Shadow Clones in terms of XP gain (e.g. Resolve benefits to XP). Give all the characters that have been training with FOOM some kind of FOOM based flat XP gain rate bonus when using shadow clones to compensate. Then, people only need to focus on leveling Shadow Clone if they want Shadow Clones to be a major part of their narrative or gameplay (e.g. Kei and Snowflake), not an XP optimizer thing. We can treat FOOM as still existing from a narrative standpoint as a form of optimized Shadow Clone training that Hazou designed (and thus can still be potentially learned by others, traded, etc.)
I would also consider rolling back XP spends on Resolve and allowing those to be "respeced" to some degree if you go this route. Reallocating some of our characters points from Resolve to other attributes would potentially allow them to be more combat viable, and thus potentially make it feel "better" to send them into the field.
Thirdly, the penalties from consequences make it so that Hazou is disincentivized from doing anything dangerous while he has consequences...which is a lot of the time. I understand the reasoning behind these debuffs, but I think they might actually be detrimental to gameplay. Narratively, they make a lot more sense than something like Hit Points, but they impact the decision making process in ways that may reduce the fun of the game (e.g. by making us take fewer risks).
Finally, in my opinion, there are existential threats (e.g. the Great Seal) that Hazou is better equipped to deal with than virtually anyone, whereas he's currently just barely a Chunin-level combatant. As such, doing anything like going to war seems like an inefficient use of Hazou's skills. This ties back into the whole Shadow Clone thing - basically, I think it'd be infinitely more reasonable to send Hazou out into the field if he had combat stats that warranted it, but he doesn't.
The proposed systems change (the soft caps/thresholds for skills) might address some of this, but for my own personal prioritization for things in the game, it wouldn't have much of an impact. It doesn't change my opinion on Hazou's priorities (fixing the seal is a good use of Hazou's skills, field missions is not, imo), nor would it change how I'd probably be training his skills (if I was involved in that process).
Again, I haven't been heavily involved in the quest, so much of this may be rehash or super obvious, but I thought I'd share in hopes of it being helpful.
Players who want Hazo to be a viable combatant that Asuma himself would be comfortable with sending out can work on getting Hazo ready for these sort of missions. Incidentally, working on Sealing projects will improve Hazo's readiness as a combatant especially if we targets seals like chakdar, rocket boots, or skywalkers.
Otherwise, the most efficient way, narratively speaking, is for Hazo to work on sealing, which is plentiful full of challenge and stakes.
Otherwise, the most efficient way, narratively speaking, is for Hazo to work on sealing, which is plentiful full of challenge and stakes.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
I like the core concept of needing real world experience to improve, I don't like it functioning as an absolute mechanic. I think it should apply in some cases, not be involved at all with other skills, and only partially implemented with yet others.
Alternatively,
Rather than a hard cap, how about a soft one? Reduced XP gain in skills that Hazo hasn't had to use in serious situations recently. Hazo can know, logically, that getting a skill up is important, but become bored or frustrated with training it. "How am I even supposed to get better at this, aside from spamming the jutsu mindlessly? Is that even working anymore?"
In comparison, If Hazo, say, recently just barely dodged a kunai to the eye, he'd be properly motivated to give dodge training his full attention. It would be 'unlocked' for at least a few levels, up to QM based on impact of the event that unlocked it.
Alternatively,
Rather than a hard cap, how about a soft one? Reduced XP gain in skills that Hazo hasn't had to use in serious situations recently. Hazo can know, logically, that getting a skill up is important, but become bored or frustrated with training it. "How am I even supposed to get better at this, aside from spamming the jutsu mindlessly? Is that even working anymore?"
In comparison, If Hazo, say, recently just barely dodged a kunai to the eye, he'd be properly motivated to give dodge training his full attention. It would be 'unlocked' for at least a few levels, up to QM based on impact of the event that unlocked it.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Question: what's something you'd like to see Ino and Hazou talk about?
I have an idea for a repeating refrain for a fluffy Ino/Hazou omake, but I can't think of anything for the actual meat of the update. Considering the private setting it'll be in, the most natural thing would be to have them talk about something important to their relationship, but my creativity isn't being very cooperative.I'm half-tempted to write about Ino asking about the Orochimaru Debacle, but that doesn't seem like it would fit the mood of the chapter...
Edit: Nevermind, got it
I have an idea for a repeating refrain for a fluffy Ino/Hazou omake, but I can't think of anything for the actual meat of the update. Considering the private setting it'll be in, the most natural thing would be to have them talk about something important to their relationship, but my creativity isn't being very cooperative.
Edit: Nevermind, got it
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- Location
- USA
What are some of their shared interests, if any? Exploring that type of thing can be fun. This can either be purely in terms of recreation, or areas of overlap in terms of work.
Have we ever investigated how Yamanaka memory abilities interact with the Iron Nerve "downloading" information, for example, if at all? Discussing and/or testing that could be fun (and potentially result in more Thousand Yard Stare points).
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Oh, I've already got what they're doing and what the setting is, I just needed something for them to talk about. I've got it all figured out, now, but thanks! ^.^
- Location
- Yes.
Ask Ino if a jury is supposed to be edible, because we haven't been able to find one when we look around and everybody acts weird when we ask where we can sample a jury.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
In my mind...
- Resolve (for FOOM)
- Sealing
- Athletics
- Physique?
- Location
- [REDACTED]
Lurker chiming in here!
What about unlocking Resolve caps similar to the way we earn fate points but with a higher threshold? This would, I think, align mechanical-simulationist and narrative concerns. Resolve is, after all, a word that describes ones determination in achieving a goal.
In the rules it's what we use to resist intimidation, mental attacks, etc. From a game design perspective it make sense to have this skill and "resolve" is as good a name as any. However, why can't we be just a little bit fuzzy here and take the name of the skill at face value. Yes, resisting a jonin aura takes resolve, but could you not argue that taking a risky, bold, high commitment action to promote Uplift, etc takes a certain amount of resolve as well?
I would argue the ability to push past the fear, the doubt, and put it all on the line for one's goal takes a lot of resolve.
What about unlocking Resolve caps similar to the way we earn fate points but with a higher threshold? This would, I think, align mechanical-simulationist and narrative concerns. Resolve is, after all, a word that describes ones determination in achieving a goal.
In the rules it's what we use to resist intimidation, mental attacks, etc. From a game design perspective it make sense to have this skill and "resolve" is as good a name as any. However, why can't we be just a little bit fuzzy here and take the name of the skill at face value. Yes, resisting a jonin aura takes resolve, but could you not argue that taking a risky, bold, high commitment action to promote Uplift, etc takes a certain amount of resolve as well?
I would argue the ability to push past the fear, the doubt, and put it all on the line for one's goal takes a lot of resolve.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We would have to set things up so we might lose the roll. Since right now is impossible to fail with our training plan
- Location
- Texas
Uncap resolve based on the number of voters in the last cycle? More Hivemind members == more determination? 😅
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Incorrect. We can, at the extremes, get a mild consequence, if I understand it correctly.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Indeed, we have our safety margin calibrated to 'safe on -6 or better', and if we roll once a day we should get -9 or -12 (and thus a Mild Mental Consequence) approximately twice a month. It turns out that gives us a higher effective XP rate than 'safe on -9 or better' which has one less training block per day but makes it so we only get a Mild Mental Consequence once every 81 days.
(strictly speaking I think it's even more efficient to go for 'safe on -3 or better' but then the Milds start coming in much more frequently and we even start getting the risk of a Medium, and that pushed too far into compromising our capabilities for our tastes)
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
Oh no, our training plans require us to do a performance review for Hazō? I do enough of those at work, I don't want to do more for fun lol
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Our Resolve is pretty high. What would it take to unlock its cap in particular?
Edit: And how will the new rule work with characters other than Hazō? We maje their training plans but they have lots of real life encounters we aren't privy to, including classified missions.
Edit: And how will the new rule work with characters other than Hazō? We maje their training plans but they have lots of real life encounters we aren't privy to, including classified missions.
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- Location
- Yes.
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