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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Shrooms said:
Yes.
(idk i stole it from paper's plan :p )

EDIT: Perhaps "How many more would you like them to make of this model?"
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Hm...What I would recommend is for Hazou (or another less-busy ninja capable of using Skysliders) to test out the Skysliders and see how much ninja abilities can compensate for the current issues (and also field-test them in higher-altitude conditions), then show what we have to Asuma and ask if he thinks we should focus on making more Michikis for general use or focus on fixing the current issues.

And depending on how flawed the Michiki model is, maybe don't show Asuma them at all.
 
Pharos said:
Also, I recall someone mentioning mixing or treating spider silk with other substances to improve the material. Can we suggest that? I'll try to find the specific post
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You're thinking of mine. Linen canvas is notorious for retaining most of its strength while wet, hence its use in sails, which Hazou should be aware of being from a nautical culture. Wool retains much of its thermal insulation despise being wet, though caribou hair takes the cake on that. Not necessarily the same as retaining tensile strength, but worth looking into. Both are protein based, so sulfurization and heat treatment should permit them to cross-link with the silk on a molecular level. Hemp might be an adequate substitute. I'd shy away from polysaccharides like cotton, however. Ninja should be intimately familiar with clothing. They used to use silk because it would catch an arrow and allow it to be cleanly extracted from the wound regardless of its barbs.

Speaking of which: next project for uplift: proper wheelbarrows.
 
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eaglejarl said:
Various clan members have been deployed on various missions at Asuma's request. We'll be rolling for everyone's survival after some discussion of the odds. Mission counts are based on the assumption that people survived through the first ones and will be modified if it's later determined that they died.
  • Akane and Yuno have been out as a team three times, running patrol and deconfliction missions (i.e. "go here and kill everything that moves unless it's a citizen of Fire")
  • Mari was out for 4 days with a KEI chūnin backing her up, details classified
  • Mari was out for 3 days with a KEI chūnin backing her up, details classified
  • Noburi powered another Zoo Rush, although the details were classified and you haven't heard what happened
  • Haru was teamed with a KEI chūnin and sent to demolish a civilian mill town in Rock


Again, we'll be rolling for everyone's survival after some discussion of the odds.
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Also pinging @Velorien What is the result of the rolls, and/or how dead our loved ones are?
 
eaglejarl said:
@faflec , how many Wakahisa are currently in Leaf, where, and did any come after the initial batch who brought the fish?
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Lailoken said:
Three. Noburi, the fish tender, and the adjunct diplomat.
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These three (Noburi, Wataru, and Yasuji), plus some more depending on the final details of the Gouketsu-Wakahisa trade deal.
eaglejarl said:
  • Wakahisa aquaculture experts to come to the Gōketsu estate and direct the process of setting up an appropriate koi pond. All expenses will be borne by the Gōketsu.
  • An ongoing Wakahisa aquaculturist presence (2-3 experts, plus a couple of bodyguards and some civilian staff. These people will be rotated periodically) in dedicated housing at the Gōketsu estate. These experts will be responsible for all care and feeding of the fish.
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eaglejarl said:
Wakahisa was a squat, stubby man shaped much like the barrel that he wore on his back. His silk robes were a pale blue, the folds perfectly crisp; he must have donned them no more than minutes before approaching the Gōketsu gate, as there was no way such finery remained so clean on the road. The dandyish clothing did an excellent job hiding the shape and size of his body, including concealing his hands inside overly long sleeves. They did not, however, conceal the fact that Wakahisa's neck was a solid block of muscle with no visible fat.

Behind him stood a bizarre sight: Six massive covered wagons, each one essentially a mobile fortress. The wagons were pulled by two brace of oxen apiece, with a driver and a guard sitting on the buckboard. The guards wore Mist ninja headbands while the drivers were bare-headed and presumably civilians. Two dozen other civilians in homespun accompanied the group on foot, looking tired and travel-stained.
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faflec said:
This sounds about right. As for the training for the most recent chapter:
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I think that's too much, since they weren't training full time. Someone (@Paperclipped ? @Inferno Vulpix ?) did an estimate on based on likely number of days training.

faflec said:
These three [that @Lailoken quoted] (Noburi, Wataru, and Yasuji), plus some more depending on the final details of the Gouketsu-Wakahisa trade deal.
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Thanks, both of you.


RandomOTP said:
Just received news of a death in the family. My activity within the hivemind is likely to decrease for the next week or two. l pre-submit my apologies if I act out of character for a while.
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Oh no. I'm so sorry. Take care of yourself and you are pre-forgiven for everything.

Lailoken said:
I've just been through botulism food poisoning and spent days curled in a fetal position vomiting on myself and crying in agony. I've been recently reminded that, if I do everything right, I might have five years left to live and two or three of those might be functionally independent instead of chained to cords, wires, and IV lines forgotten in a hospice somewhere. Y'know the funny thing about veins bursting like overloaded pipes? It doesn't actually hurt. It feels like popping bubble wrap. You feel something on your foot and look down and, oh you're geysering blood. Then it keeps happening over the course of under a minute until you are covered in bruises and your skin has turned lemon. It's like something out of a horror film.

How has your week been?
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Yurgh, that's horrible. I'm so sorry and I hope things get as better as is feasible.
 
eaglejarl said:
I think that's too much, since they weren't training full time. Someone (@Paperclipped ? @Inferno Vulpix ?) did an estimate on based on likely number of days training.
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My mistake then.
Paperclipped said:
Ouch, 2.2 per day? Do you have any specific critical feedback about the plan that you'd like to convey to us (other than GM-had-fun section)?



SC Training: Akane did 3 missions -- it's about a day's travel to the border on the Lightning side, and about a day and a half to the border on the Earth side. With 2 days average for Lightning side missions and 3 days average for Rock side missions, I'll say she was on mission for about 8 days, so 6 days of training opportunity out of 14, with XP spread evenly through the split. I'll also assume that Kei got 10 days of training opportunity, only taking part in the one Zoo Rush which involved two days travel time. Please correct me if these training opportunity guesses are wrong. Base 31, 1.0x and 1.4x:

Akane: (31 * 6/14 * 1.0) = +13.2 XP
Kei: (31 * 10/14 * 1.4) = +31.0 XP
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Is this a good time to bring up again the fact that Noburi has sisters he would love to see again and an academy student exchange program is an excellent way to build an alliance and even an academy student Wakahisa can shuffle around chakra, which has kinda become a critical feature of Leaf's defense during an unprovoked world war of aggression?
 
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@eaglejarl @Velorien
First pass is done. What concerns do you have that I should address in the next version?

Additionally, what are the limitations on what can be brought to and from the Seventh Path? For instance, are we able to have our summons bring furniture to the Seventh Path and then summon them with said furniture inside the underground facilities? Assuming we coordinate in advance, of course.

_The_Bomb said:
Reposting, since I've made signifcant changes to the primary section in order to address the issues raised by the QMs that would make the project technically impossible. Edits are still ongoing but a solid draft will be done tonight.

FOOM OPSEC: Need to Know Bases
Using Pangolin construction workers and covertly obtained materials, secretly excavate two nested underground chambers. Once the chambers and their entrances are dug out and stabilized, Akane and her shadow clones will furnish/set-up their interiors. The first chamber is for a hyperOPSEC meeting room/storage site (useful in its own right but also a great cover for the construction and usage of the second chamber). The second chamber is for a mass shadow clone training facility. See specifics below.
  • HyperOPSEC Facility (our secret basement)
    • Located below maximum Byakugan range (learn from Shikamaru)
    • Entrance (and emergency exit) is discuised and located in secure/restricted areas of Gōketsu compound where clan members can regularly enter without suspicion.
    • Facility itself is small: a meeting room and small filing/storage area (design to Kei and Kagome's specifications)
    • Kagome and Kei are in charge of security. Make as physicially impenetrable and as impossible to spy on as conceivably possible, including having AB seals permanently active.
  • Training Facility (the secret basement of our secret basement)
    • Accessible only from a disguised entrance/tunnel in HyperOPSEC Facility
    • Much larger than above facility (exact design to FOOMers' specifications)
    • With Kei's assistance, Hazō implements and maintains security measures
  • Disguising Construction
    • Paneru and Kei's Pangolin construction workers will perform the necessary excavations.
      • They will not be aware of the purpose of either underground chamber. Once the tunnels and cavities are excavated and stabilized, their involvement will be finished.
      • For secrecy, summon only on-site
      • Any materials required for this stage of constructions will be purchased from Pangolins and ferried directly to site from Seventh Path by Kei.
    • Interior design and construction will be handled by Akane
      • Shadow Clones = Free Labor
      • Temporarily divert FOOM training towards learning required skills, if nessesary.
    • Quietly obtain materials.
      • Build above-ground training facility for all estate ninja. Purchase lots of excess training equipment and materials, some of which will quietly disappear from storage and end up in the underground training facility.
      • Similarly, obtain furniture and other interior materials using above-ground buildings as cover.
    • Move all materials to site secretly; keep sealed in storage scrolls whenever possible and transport using summon ferries whenever not.
    • Have Mari divert attention to legitimate projects

  • Standard Operating Procedure
    • Even in private, speak and act as if neither facility exists.
    • If you do not need to know specific information, you do not know that information.
    • Being informed about either facility requires verification of sufficient OPSEC ability from Mari
    • Mari, disguise base usage as something else. Have fun ;P
    • Training Facility
      • Continue non-SC training on surface.
      • Any heavy SC training or regular refilling must occur here
      • Create mass SCs only inside facility, barring emergency
      • Give no reason to suspect mass SC training
    • HyperOPSEC Facility
      • Clan meetings should occur in this facility whenever possible.
      • All discussion of Project Necromancy, FOOM, and Sage Mode may only occur in this facility.
      • Any materials related to said projects must be stored in this facility.
Check/Optimize with Mari and FOOM Clan Members before implementation.
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faflec said:
Hm...What I would recommend is for Hazou (or another less-busy ninja capable of using Skysliders) to test out the Skysliders and see how much ninja abilities can compensate for the current issues (and also field-test them in higher-altitude conditions), then show what we have to Asuma and ask if he thinks we should focus on making more Michikis for general use or focus on fixing the current issues.

And depending on how flawed the Michiki model is, maybe don't show Asuma them at all.
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How is this?

Shrooms said:
[X] He Blinded Me With Science
Word Count: Low

  • After training Kagome for the day, ask Snowflake to hang out. It's wartime after all, so they should make memories together while they can! Hazou hasn't been around her nearly as long as the others.
    • BE MINDFUL OF HER THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS, YOU WANT TO BE A SUPPORTIVE FRIEND AFTER ALL. NO SERIOUSLY HAZOU, PAY CLOSE ATTENTION.
    • Ami-Style training: Have Snowflake toss practice Kunai at Hazou to help him train back up to field-readiness. Have Hazou face away and dodge them solely by the movement of their shadows.
  • Celebrate Akane's birthday.
  • Offscreen Stuff:
    • Ask Akane to use Shadow Clone to test boarding a Skyslider from Skywalkers, perform a few high altitude tests to evaluate performance.
      • If all goes well, update Asuma on current Skyslider capabilities.
        • The first successful Skyslider, model name "Michiki", has been made.
        • Should the team produce more of this model, or should they focus on refining it first?
        • Emphasize the contributions of the civilian team
    • Hazoulation:
      • Give the team a large bonus.
      • Congratulate them and thank them, but note that their work isn't over yet.
        • Tools like this could be imperative to winning the war
        • Any improvements to stability, flight speed, and duration could be helpful.
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_The_Bomb said:
Fortunately, most of the charecters are already at the point where it would be smart to switch to a training plan that does not require Noburi to provide chakra for shadow clones. @Paperclipped designed each of his plans to come with a "No-Buri" variant where the charecter slowly raises their CR alongside their clone usage. I have been arguing for Hazō to take this approach on its own merits (higher chakra reserves being a good thing for a lot of reasons), but now that we have major OPSEC concerns I feel it is a no brainer.

This DOES NOT slow down FOOMing more than a very small amount. For Hazō, it would take him 2 years 5 months to get to the point where he is a kage-level sealer that can survive and escape from an ambush by a hostile jōnin instead of 2 years and 3 months. Yes, it only adds two months. For Kei, it's even less of an impact. It would take her 3 years to reach the her fourth detour instead of 2 years 11 months. Akane likewise is barely affected, taking 2 years to become a terrifying combat monster instead of 1 year 11 months.

I strongly encourage everyone to take a look at the specifics in the spreadsheets linked below. Paper did a really good job with them and they are totally understandable even to people with very minimal spreadsheet experience such as myself. I pulled these numbers straight from there.
Resolve Grinding (Hazō)
Resolve Grinding (Akane)
Resolve Grinding (Kei)
The specific paths I looked at were the Akane(with Buffs)/Akane(Buffs + No-Buri), Kei(with Buffs)/Kei(Buffs + No-Buri), and Hazō(Survivable Sealmaster)/Hazō(Survivable Sealmaster + No-Buri), as they were the ones I considered to be our best paths forward.

TL;DR We already have a great way to drastically reduce Hazō, Kei, and Akane's chakra consumption for FOOM training by slowly raising their CR as they increase their SC usage. It barely slows down FOOM and comes with the added benefit of giving everyone higher chakra reserves (very nice to have in combat and required to unlock goodies such as Sage Mode and possibly jōnin auras).
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Bumping this for thread consideration.
TL;DR We already have a great way to drastically reduce Hazō, Kei, and Akane's chakra consumption for FOOM training by slowly raising their CR as they increase their SC usage. It barely slows down FOOM and comes with the added benefit of giving everyone higher chakra reserves (very nice to have in combat and required to unlock goodies such as Sage Mode and possibly jōnin auras).
 
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Actually, Hotsprings has a bloodline similar to the Wakahisa, right? They're a close ally of Mist who have just had their cultivated neutrality violated and are a close ally of Mist and we're sending an unexpected surge force to relieve them, right?
 
Lailoken said:
You're thinking of mine. Linen canvas is notorious for retaining most of its strength while wet, hence its use in sails, which Hazou should be aware of being from a nautical culture. Wool retains much of its thermal insulation despise being wet, though caribou hair takes the cake on that. Not necessarily the same as retaining tensile strength, but worth looking into. Both are protein based, so sulfurization and heat treatment should permit them to cross-link with the silk on a molecular level. Hemp might be an adequate substitute. I'd shy away from polysaccharides like cotton, however. Ninja should be intimately familiar with clothing. They used to use silk because it would catch an arrow and allow it to be cleanly extracted from the wound regardless of its barbs.
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Perfect, thank you.

Shrooms said:
[X] He Blinded Me With Science
Word Count: Low

  • After training Kagome for the day, ask Snowflake to hang out. It's wartime after all, so they should make memories together while they can! Hazou hasn't been around her nearly as long as the others.
    • BE MINDFUL OF HER THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS, YOU WANT TO BE A SUPPORTIVE FRIEND AFTER ALL. NO SERIOUSLY HAZOU, PAY CLOSE ATTENTION.
    • Ami-Style training: Have Snowflake toss practice Kunai at Hazou to help him train back up to field-readiness. Have Hazou face away and dodge them solely by the movement of their shadows.
  • Celebrate Akane's birthday.
  • Offscreen Stuff:
    • Ask Akane to use Shadow Clone to test boarding a Skyslider from Skywalkers, perform a few high altitude tests to evaluate performance.
      • If all goes well, update Asuma on current Skyslider capabilities.
        • The first successful Skyslider, model name "Michiki", has been made.
        • Should the team produce more of this model, or should they focus on refining it first?
        • Emphasize the contributions of the civilian team
    • Hazoulation:
      • Give the team a large bonus.
      • Congratulate them and thank them, but note that their work isn't over yet.
        • Tools like this could be imperative to winning the war
        • Any improvements to stability, flight speed, and duration could be helpful.
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Are we allowed to use Skywalkers for testing? I thought they were a Tower-only military resource. The Akane-Ino date would've been way easier with Skywalkers. We can still get permission from Asuma for testing in conjunction with Skywalkers, he'd probably grant it.

For the Ami-style training, how is Hazou going to be seeing the shadows cast? I can't picture how this would work. Hazou faces a wall with a strong light source behind Snowflake?
  • Hazoulation:
    • Give the team a large bonus.
    • Congratulate them and thank them, but note that their work isn't over yet.
      • Tools like this could be imperative to winning the war
      • Any improvements to stability, flight speed, and duration could be helpful.
    • Suggestions for improving spidersilk: soak in tannins, weave xor layer with with linen, hemp or wool, treat with wax
Can we add this line or one like it?
 
Pharos said:
Are we allowed to use Skywalkers for testing? I thought they were a Tower-only military resource. The Akane-Ino date would've been way easier with Skywalkers. We can still get permission from Asuma for testing in conjunction with Skywalkers, he'd probably grant it.
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True
Pharos said:
For the Ami-style training, how is Hazou going to be seeing the shadows cast? I can't picture how this would work. Hazou faces a wall with a strong light source behind Snowflake?
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Shadows stretch pretty long in the morning and evening. Wouldn't work very well at noon though.
Pharos said:
Suggestions for improving spidersilk: soak in tannins, weave xor layer with with linen, hemp or wool, treat with wax
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Sure, I can add that
 
Shrooms said:
[X] He Blinded Me With Science
Word Count: Low

  • After training Kagome for the day, ask Snowflake to hang out. It's wartime after all, so they should make memories together while they can! Hazou hasn't been around her nearly as long as the others.
    • BE MINDFUL OF HER THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS, YOU WANT TO BE A SUPPORTIVE FRIEND AFTER ALL. NO SERIOUSLY HAZOU, PAY CLOSE ATTENTION.
    • Ami-Style training: Have Snowflake toss practice Kunai at Hazou to help him train back up to field-readiness. Have Hazou face away and dodge them solely by the movement of their shadows.
  • Celebrate Akane's birthday.
  • Offscreen Stuff:
    • Ask Akane to use Shadow Clone to test boarding a Skyslider from Skywalkers, perform a few high altitude tests to evaluate performance.
      • If all goes well, update Asuma on current Skyslider capabilities.
        • The first successful Skyslider, model name "Michiki", has been made.
        • Should the team produce more of this model, or should they focus on refining it first?
        • Emphasize the contributions of the civilian team
    • Hazoulation:
      • Give the team a large bonus.
      • Congratulate them and thank them, but note that their work isn't over yet.
        • Tools like this could be imperative to winning the war
        • Any improvements to stability, flight speed, and duration could be helpful.
      • Suggestions for improving spidersilk: soak in tannins, weave xor layer with with linen, hemp or wool, treat with wax
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  • Offscreen Stuff:
    • Ask Akane to use Shadow Clone to test boarding a Skyslider from Skytowers, perform a few high altitude tests to evaluate performance.
      • If all goes well, update Asuma on current Skyslider capabilities.
        • The first successful Skyslider, model name "Michiki", has been made.
        • Should the team produce more of this model, or should they focus on refining it first?
        • Emphasize the contributions of the civilian team
        • Ask permission to test Skysliders with Skywalkers
Maybe go with this to avoid treason?
 
@Shrooms if you'll include telling Asuma that the sky sliders would enable raids deep in enemy territory, like where the kraken scroll is will vote for your plan
 
Pharos said:
  • Offscreen Stuff:
    • Ask Akane to use Shadow Clone to test boarding a Skyslider from Skytowers, perform a few high altitude tests to evaluate performance.
      • If all goes well, update Asuma on current Skyslider capabilities.
        • The first successful Skyslider, model name "Michiki", has been made.
        • Should the team produce more of this model, or should they focus on refining it first?
        • Emphasize the contributions of the civilian team
        • Ask permission to test Skysliders with Skywalkers
Maybe go with this to avoid treason?
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Done
Oneiros said:
@Shrooms if you'll include telling Asuma that the sky sliders would enable raids deep in enemy territory, like where the kraken scroll is will vote for your plan
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I'm not sure they're reliable enough yet. If you really want to talk to him about the Kraken Scroll, I think that needs to be its own scene imo. And I don't think he'd be willing to send Hazou to do it, which is ultimately what you want, right?
 
Oneiros said:
Just curious are you opposed to Hazō taking any missions in the war?
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Not particularly. But think about it from Asuma's point of view. Hazou as a strategic asset (sealmaster, innovator a la skysliders, war crimes generator, clan head, Kagome's Summoning teacher) is a lot more valuable to have in Leaf than to have risked in the field for one more bit of Chuunin-tier firepower. If the Cantelope/Cantilever conversation goes well next update, I can see him attending Zoo Rushes where he's protected by S rankers, but Hazou doesn't really make sense to send on seek and destroy missions when Joe Chuunin can do it pretty much as well and isn't contributing anything else to Leaf's war-winning capabilities.
 
[X] He Blinded Me With Science

@Shrooms could we slip something in about asking Kagome about other ways to create seals (carving, tattoos, sculpture, etc.)? Might be a bit much, but just knowing anything about techniques beyond ink on a page would be useful.
 
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