- Location
- The Void
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- She/Her
If this isn't a mood
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
Unaligned Player
Agony that desires to meet Extinction
- Location
- Adrift between sanity and madness
- Pronouns
- Shrug
KIba I am incapable of caring about my own life and I'm just a terribly broken person. Why would I care about the lives of people actively working to make the world worse?
Because I despise actions that make the world worse.
Unaligned Player
Agony that desires to meet Extinction
- Location
- Adrift between sanity and madness
- Pronouns
- Shrug
Can't parse.
- Location
- Bronx
Personally, the Hagoromo Elders/Leaders can go die in a ditch. What worries me is hurting innocent people who probably have no say in how their clan is run. If we're going to do this Uplift thing, we shouldn't be discussing inter-clan warfare yet.
Target the people responsible; if they don't change their views (or at least pretend to) then eliminate them. Economically, socially, or physically (although physically might be a bad idea: if Hinata knows, the Hyuuga Elders know, and if their vassal clan is ground into the dirt, they'll be coming after us).
Target the people responsible; if they don't change their views (or at least pretend to) then eliminate them. Economically, socially, or physically (although physically might be a bad idea: if Hinata knows, the Hyuuga Elders know, and if their vassal clan is ground into the dirt, they'll be coming after us).
Hard agree with Kiba on this one.
We are completely overexaggerating this slight. At this point we should clearly erase the Hyuuga too - they're xenophobic and would've killed us if Hiashi hadn't died. Oh, and the Minami put their blood feud above the good of Leaf with the summon network, so they're gone too. But no, because we have personal connections with Neji, Hinata and Hanabi, and feel guilt over Nikko and want the summoning power, we're willing to spare them both.
I find it astonishing that we were considering working with Akatsuki and being oh-so-pragmatic and utilitarian until someone dislikes that Keiko is a lesbian. That's it. There are plenty of people today that are against gay marriage, and we don't consider financially ruining them to be a good idea in real life.
Really, the only thing here is that is was a personal slight against our sister. Firstly, Keiko can take care of herself, and secondly, that kind of thing doesn't deserve this ridiculously unproportional response. The whole argument about 'ruining the alliance' is overblown too. Isan hasn't necessarily been widely publicized, for obvious reasons, we don't know how accurate Hinata was here, and it's not like the Hagoromo priests' refusal is going to bring down the whole alliance plan.
This is a feudal society. We can't hold them to the same standards we hold ourselves too. Furthermore, I'm not entirely sure why this offense deserves such horrible retribution. What about calling non-ninja softfeet? When people say that in front of us, we don't plan to ruin them. We're just being hypocritical because this actually directly affected us for once.
I'm also astonished that we're considering ruining the Hagoromo to be this easy. We have less than 10 people, only one of which is above jonin level, and that should be enough to destroy an entrenched clan? Clearly, destroying them is objectively better for Leaf and Asuma will praise us for ruining them.
I'm not saying we should just let this go. There is, however, a middle ground between ignoring it and going full scorched earth policy.
Personally, I would order the expensive wedding clothes from the Hagoromo (props to whoever suggested that). This fulfills Keiko's request to send a lot of business to the Hagoromo clothing services while also fulfilling the outward appearance of a peace offering. Then when we try and go around the Hagoromo priests - I suggest trying to switch an affiliated priest first, and then progressively going through Isan wedding, summon wedding, and last youth wedding (wow what could go wrong there. Maybe more of a last resort) - we can say that we didn't want them to have to further compromise their principles, and we apologize for going around them so we ordered a bunch of stuff from them.
Then we just treat them as more hostile than we otherwise would and take opportunities that are good for us and bad for them. We don't have to destroy them for not conforming to our future arbitrary moral standards when they have absolutely no reason to. Also on this subject, there was a reference in the last update to Kanda being 'unclean' aka gay since Yuno glanced at Keiko. Yet we let that pass, because apparently it's completely different.
Regardless, I'm not on board with the whole destroy-destroy-destroy mindset.
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You're completely right. We should just burn the fucking everything.
I know it was a long post, but you could at least read it if you're going to respond to it.
If we were going to burn everything, this is objectively so far down the list that it shouldn't change our decision. The whole scorch squad things and disease and war and second-class nature of non-ninja are slightly more important to me than opinions on gay marriage, especially when they stay opinions and not laws.
Also while I disagree with the princple, Oneiros' plan is currently winning, so I do have some suggestions to it.
[x] Action Plan: Blood and Wine
This sounds like a bad idea. Gives us a bad reputation, and we don't have the justification that the Minami did of a death. Also as people have pointed out we probably don't have the power and social standing to get away with it.
I would prefer to make sure that this is fact and not Hinata making things up, and also maybe check alternatives before we decide to blow things up
Like the offscreen part, but I'd add something about getting either Gaku or Mari to look into actually making wedding plans (setting a date, location, working out the priests, following Leaf traditions, food - there's a lot to get done). I would also point out that this is very soon after Noburi's birthday party, and I'm not necessarily sure why we'd want a pre-nuptial party as opposed to, say, talking to the dogs and just having another game night.
[x] Action Plan: Blood and Wine
The scorch squads are not enough. This whole world needs to drink of the blessedly cleansing kiss of fire.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Unironically yeah, any tradition that's based in bigotry has to go. Now, many of the Hyuga seem to be open to abandoning the more hateful aspects of their old ways and that's perfectly acceptable. Same with the Hagoromo. If they're willing to leave their bigotry behind that's fine. But you don't compromise with bigotry. There is no middle ground between "These people are people and deserve rights" or "These people are not people and do not deserve rights". Physically fighting them head-on isn't a good idea, but I suspect that we are capable of making it so abandoning bigotry is more beneficial than not, especially long-term.
And if you're wondering why some of the people in these comments are so passionate, many of them are living this struggle right now. Every day, having to face people who act like the Hagoromo. I'd imagine this circumstance would strike a few chords when you have your entire identity challenged by people who don't even know you, but have so much say over how you get to live your life.
(Btw, I think a lot of the current rhetoric is hyperbolic due to this passion. The contents of the plan are mostly sensible. I don't dislike your recommendations for the plan.)
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- Yes.
Many of them?
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- NY
I'm confused how we went from seeing that the Hagoromo Clan Head is a raging homophobe to implementing the Nine Familial Exterminations on the Hagoromo.
Homophobia is bad civilization. So is familial guilt.
Homophobia is bad civilization. So is familial guilt.
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- Yes.
My understanding is that we're just killing their political/economic power? I don't think we're doing an Itachi.
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- The Void
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- She/Her
We most definitely aren't planning on doing this. The worst thing we will do to hurt them is beat them up in an honor duel. No one should die
Unaligned Player
Agony that desires to meet Extinction
- Location
- Adrift between sanity and madness
- Pronouns
- Shrug
Oneiros is having a giant meltdown over this yes but one of these actively desires to make the world worse.
- Location
- NY
It's these quotes that gave me the impression (also @faflec wouldn't it not be doing an Itachi by virtue of us not being of that clan?)
Honor duel? I'm all onboard. Creating an alternate priesthood to axe their political power? I was on board with that one from the start. Ending the election deal? I'm shocked that wasn't done already.
"Utter destitution"? Yeah...we see what happens to the poor here. My objection is a simple one. No collateral damage.
Honor duel? I'm all onboard. Creating an alternate priesthood to axe their political power? I was on board with that one from the start. Ending the election deal? I'm shocked that wasn't done already.
"Utter destitution"? Yeah...we see what happens to the poor here. My objection is a simple one. No collateral damage.
- Location
- Book Fort
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- They/Them
Alterations made. And the plan was originally the result of time constraints and a moderate amount of idle wish fulfillment. I made it in five minutes during a lull at work, and I've found myself bereft of spoons lately, so this seemed like a nice idea... though, you're right and we should probably do more than just party. Edits made accordingly.
I'm okay with reducing them into a non-relevant entity, but I'm not okay with doing an Itachi. Keiko has a plan, let's trust her on this. Besides, we only know that their clan head is an asshat who is using his influence to keep other priests from officiating Goketsu weddings. We might want to ask around before we go all scorched earth. It might be that they just need a new clan head. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to ask around for the Hagoromo's reputation. I mean, the Nara have a reputation as introverted intellectuals, and "everyone knows" that the Hyuuga are purist traditionalists. It might just be that the Hagoromo value history and tradition as a clan, and that this particular leader is a bit too zealous.
I'm all for ruining their financial and political influence, leaving them open to the Goketsu influence (though influencing them would likely take money, and we won't have enough of it until the 7th path trade network gets up and running) of Uplift.
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- The Void
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- She/Her
We will make sure that the innocent are spared.
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- NY
We better. No "Jashin-sama will know his own" shit here.
Plan and rhetoric gives the impression of scorched earth, disproportionate responses.
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- NY
[X] Action Plan: Blood and Wine
- Location
- Book Fort
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- They/Them
I'd argue that there is no perfect way to do this, and innocent blood would be spilled. Who defines "innocence" in this? What about the guilty? Are there degrees of guilty, just as there are flavors of innocence? At what age do we start to condemn them? And what about Keiko? Do we ignore her say in this? She has a plan, let's trust her enough to go ahead and order the bulk amount of clothes, and then talk to her about this. She was the slighted party here, not Hazou.
I don't mean to give that response, and I apologize if that was the case. I just want to investigate the Hagoromo, and I trust Keiko enough to believe that her plan doesn't involve fertilizing her garden with the entire Hagoromo Clan. So we can place the order (just in case her plan is time sensitive) and then gather intel on the clan as a whole entity. Find out what their culture and beliefs are. It might just be that their leader is a dickhead, and that their clan is more similar to the Akimichi, rather than the Hyuuga.
Mind reading through my action plan as a sanity check, to let me know if there's anything in it that gives off Itachi vibes?
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- NY
I *think* (though do not presume to speak for him) that Kiba was referring to the other plan and quoted yours by accident? It reads as quite level-headed to me.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
From my perspective we are going after an organization not any individual. We will not leave any one destitute or without prospects. There will be no murder or acts of violence against the Hags. We will just remove there ability to hurt people
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