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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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[X] Let eaglejarl write what he wants for the iron mine, we trust him.
[X] Action Plan: The Iron Mine, Simplified
  • Bring Keiko and Noburi with us to kill all the chakra monsters in the iron mine property.
  • Have a fuckton of relevant seals with us to kill stuff and store anything useful we find.
  • Use this opportunity to hazesee how Candoru fares in combat. Definitely let him face the odds alone, especially in the mine.
  • Stack buffs Punch hard.
  • Let eaglejarl have some fun writing this, Jashin knows we haven't done punching in a while.
  • Get people to reinforce the mine, so it doesn't collapse after we've been through it.
 
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RandomOTP said:
You've layered your post in enough sarcasm that I genuinely can't tell which of my points you're referring to. I'm honestly not trying to be antagonistic or intentionally dense, I promise. I'm rather oblivious in the best of circumstances and the written word lacks tonal inflection, body posture, facial expressions, and other social cues that can help to discern one's intent. So please understand that I'm being nothing but open and honest when I say that I sincerely can't tell if your post is intended to be the warm, harmless sarcasm between two people in the same social group, or if it's meant to be something meaner. This is the second sarcastic reply that you've made within a week, and it has me wondering if it's the latter, rather than the former. Specifically, it's the inclusion of the exclamation "wow," that has me wondering all of this; it has me wondering if you're upset with me.

Have I offended you somehow, or done something to anger you? Oneiros, I don't know if I could call us "friends," but I want to acknowledge that --while there have been instances where I've disagreed with you on an action plan or an interpretation of a character --I find that I have nothing but respect for you. Sure, I've disagreed with you before. And sure, I'll probably disagree with you in the future. But that's more because we're simply two different people, with different personalities and differing opinions, than out of anything spiteful. If you'd like, we can go over to the PMs to talk about it.

If your reply was about how Hazou doesn't yet have the ability to change the foundations of the civilized world: When I said "changing the systemic nature of current civilized world," I meant that I don't think Hazou yet has the ability to directly inflict change from wider perspective, such as deescalating international conflict to help prevent world war, or making the EN such that civilians aren't treated, optimistically, like second class citizens. He's simply not that influential just yet. We've done a whole lot, but there are a lot of things holding us back, politically --Hazou's Mist origins, Hazou's habit of treason that'll probably lead to a Game Over if we're not careful, Hazou's youth, and the constraints of acting within the Uplift philosophy itself. We'll get there, of course, if we're smart and if we're lucky. We But I don't think we're quite there yet.

If your reply was about how I don't think Hazou is "destined" to win: I'd posit that Hazou is only able to engage in such high stakes politics because of Mari's instruction and a heavy reliance on his own bloodline. Even then, Hazou was still batting out of his league --Minami gave him political pointers after Hazou wasn't able to remain calm and his bloodline couldn't hide it. It's worth mentioning that we were playing diplomacy with a handicap, since we all know that even if the Minami refuse, there's a good chance that they'll be forced into joining the Seventh Path Trade Network anyway --whether by the Porcupine's demand or by Asuma's pressure. That said, I think we did as well as we possibly could have.
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Well that response was much more antagonistic than I meant it to be which is why I deleted it soon after posting. Mostly there is a large tendency from the player base to down play all of Hazō's victories and constantly highlight any potential risk to an excessive degree. I find it all incredibly exhausting

also I strongly object to both of your responses. I fundamentally believe that we can successfully play on the highest level. For your comment on the Minami plan I just incredibly dislike how you minimize mine and Faflec's work. We wrote an amazing plan but you seem to want to give us no credit.


faflec said:
Marginally, yes. But I have a personal dislike of the "invite other people over, be badass/over the top to impress them", it kinda...it screams vanity to me.
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Yeah that's kind of the point. We are attempting to cultivate a reputation and this is a part of it
 
Oneiros said:
Yeah that's kind of the point. We are attempting to cultivate a reputation and this is a part of it
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Right, but my issue isn't with you wanting to cultivate a reputation, the issue is with the way you're going about it. Bringing along a bunch of Academy students/Genin specifically to watch us show off isn't going to make the sort of positive reputation that you want (read: next coming of the Sannin); it's going to make us look like a bunch of wannabe-showoffs. To be clear, I don't specifically mind you bringing those people around; I mind you having the stated reason (FMPOV) be to show off in front of them. There must be a justifiable excuse given for us to bring these people hundreds of miles away.

If it were me, I would take the time to look for local villages and merchants happening to pass around the area, go overboard with them by smashing all the chakra monsters nearby (in view of them) to ensure their safety. Or, hells, find and bring some competent prospectors who can assess the quality of the land, those people probably are in high demand and we probably want them to figure out how to make the land viable anyway. Civilians might not have the social standing that ninjas do, but they can probably spread the message just as fast.
 
I'd like the winning plan to have at least one bullet point about reinforcing the mine as we go, either with MEW or civilian miners who know what they are doing. We use so many explosives in our normal operating procedures I am concerned we could cause a cave in on ourselves.
 
Dictator4Hire said:
I'd like the winning plan to have at least one bullet point about reinforcing the mine as we go, either with MEW or civilian miners who know what they are doing. We use so many explosives in our normal operating procedures I am concerned we could cause a cave in on ourselves.
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Sure.
faflec said:
[X] Let eaglejarl write what he wants for the iron mine, we trust him.
[X] Action Plan: The Iron Mine, Simplified
  • Bring Keiko and Noburi with us to kill all the chakra monsters in the iron mine property.
  • Have a fuckton of relevant seals with us to kill stuff and store anything useful we find.
  • Use this opportunity to hazesee how Candoru fares in combat. Definitely let him face the odds alone, especially in the mine.
  • Stack buffs Punch hard.
  • Let eaglejarl have some fun writing this, Jashin knows we haven't done punching in a while.
  • Get people to reinforce the mine, so it doesn't collapse after we've been through it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Oneiros said:
Mostly there is a large tendency from the player base to down play all of Hazō's victories and constantly highlight any potential risk to an excessive degree. I find it all incredibly exhausting.
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I'll readily agree to being amongst those who often call for caution and wariness in our action plans. Hazou's said and done things --such as the Kabuto Killbox Incident and the Akatsuki Killbox Incident --where we've come very close to having a Bad End. So, I usually opt to err on the side of "slow and safely" because of that. I can sympathize with how frustrating it must be to want to sprint when you have weights tied around your ankles. I disagree, because I view the added "weight" as more akin to a kevlar/protective vest than ankle weights, but I can see where you're coming from and sympathize with the situation it puts you in.

Oneiros said:
Also I strongly object to both of your responses. I fundamentally believe that we can successfully play on the highest level. For your comment on the Minami plan I just incredibly dislike how you minimize mine and Faflec's work. We wrote an amazing plan but you seem to want to give us no credit.
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I, personally, don't think Hazou-as-a-character can play on the highest levels of politics just yet --it was just a few updates ago where we-the-hivemind were panicking at the thought of Ami knowing FOOM right now, because Hazou-the-character is already so vulnerable to her potential social manipulations. But I suspect that's just a characterization issue that we'll have to agree to disagree upon.

As for your secondary qualm? I'm sorry. I didn't mean to trivialize either of your efforts in crafting the line of discussion. Indeed, if I hadn't preferred giving EJ an action scene for that particular update, I would've voted for it. We just had different priorities for that specific update, that's all. It was a thoughtful plan of action that will have a genuinely positive impact in the story later on. Even if the Minami initially refuse, only to join the Trade Network later on, the groundwork that you and Faflec laid will go a long way to making the transition a far easier one than it would otherwise be.

As I said, that wasn't my intent to disparage your efforts. My points about Hazou's reliance on "Mari's instruction and his bloodline," that he was "batting out of his league," and that "we did as well as we possibly could have" was directed at the internal narrative of the story, and not the game's meta-narrative (the plans) that shape it. I never meant to cast doubt or scorn on either of your efforts, and I'm both embarrassed and ashamed that I might have led you or Faflec to think otherwise. I genuinely, sincerely, apologize. My comments were never meant as a critique of your combined efforts, but rather, as an observation of Hazou's internal character and the game's story as a whole.

If you'll allow me, let me try to explain just what I was trying to say. I meant that Hazou, as young and unaccustomed to politics as he is, has come a long way from housing game nights to try and dispel rumors of wild orgies. But Hazou's not a perfect politician just yet. He's a young man in puberty, and although he's vastly more mature than many of us were at his age, there will be times when his patience breaks where our own patience might have endured.

Luckily, Hazou's received advice on politics and manipulation from Mari, former Heartbreaker of the Mist. And that training gives him a leg up, much in the way that Rock Lee's training from Gai, the Green Beast of the Leaf, gives him a leg up on taijutsu. Furthermore, Hazou has a bloodline uniquely suited for political manipulation. It allows him to wear masks and act out roles with an ease that he wouldn't have otherwise. So that allows Hazou-as-a-character yet another boost when navigating political waters.

However, he's still relatively new to the world of politics. Hazou's mounting frustration slips through the Iron Nerve's clutches and reveals itself, leading the Minami Summoner to offer him political advice --a gesture of goodwill and flaunting superiority --which Hazou is forced to accept and then immediately implement --thus accepting her goodwill and acknowledging her superiority.

Hazou, as much as we-the-hivemind may occasionally forget (myself included), is a character who exists somewhat-independent of our own plans. We could make a theoretically perfect action plan for a given moment --and I would even argue that the plan that you and Faflec put together is as close to a perfect solution as we could have possibly made --but Hazou may not necessarily be able to execute it, as we see in the Minami debate chapter. That's what I mean when I said that we "did as well as we could have." We had a theoretically perfect plan and the only missteps that occurred in its implementation were the result of Hazou, as his own character, possessing flaws that are both critical to his characterization and independent of the hivemind's planning.

Edit: minor grammar corrections.
 
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Dictator4Hire said:
I'd like the winning plan to have at least one bullet point about reinforcing the mine as we go, either with MEW or civilian miners who know what they are doing. We use so many explosives in our normal operating procedures I am concerned we could cause a cave in on ourselves.
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I specifically mention avoiding explosions because of that, but I don't mind adding in a bullet point about reinforcement as a precautionary measure. After all, the team might be forced to use explosives, regardless of caution.

RandomOTP said:
[x] Action Plan: Canines and Caves
Words: 253
  • Off Screen
    • With Asuma's approval and input, arrange heavy escort mission for new Koi expert ASAP
      • Ask if Yuno can join the mine mission, bring her if she is.
    • Complete Chakdar seal before departing.
  • Enable Dungeon Crawl, with Candoru scouting ahead along the way
  • Throughout the mission and combat, Noburi employs mass chakra drain as necessary, so we can all keep using Summons/Shadow Clones
    • Approach the mine cautiously
    • Summon remaining Combat Summons and Shadow Clones before we get there
      • Ask Summons if they sense any threats
      • Have Candour scout out the land around the mine
      • Whenever possible, use Shadow Clones and Summons in combat
    • Clear the land around the mine
      • If Candoru isn't challenged by this, use Summons/Shadow Clones to direct beasts towards him, specifically
    • Have Candoru do the exploration of the mine by himself, scouting ahead as much as possible.
      • Once Candoru gives up/the summons get impatient, send in the remaining summons to help.
        • We're trying to get Candoru to admit he needs help.
    • Once clear/summons need help, maintain vigilance (ninjas and summons both) and cautiously enter the mine.
      • Reinforce as we go to prevent cave-ins
  • If we enter combat alongside summons
    • Avoid explosive seals due to possibility of cave-in/friendly fire.
  • Once inside, ensure that Purifier and Tunneler's Friend seals are always equipped, and a line of substitution targets all the way out.
  • After combat, move salvageable lumber to a reasonably secure location near the mine.
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RandomOTP said:
Sure, I'm open to changing it. I'd like to include her so that she has more time to connect with the Goketsu, beyond Akane and Noburi, but I'm not fixated on it. What's your thought process with removing it?
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eaglejarl said:
"Yuno should stay here," he said at last. "I don't want to send her to Isan until your sister is back or pronounced dead, but I also don't want to risk her on an unnecessary mission and I definitely don't want her going anywhere near Mist, where they might seize her and gain the advantage with Isan. I've been remiss in not getting to know her; things have been busy lately, but she's going to be our ambassador to a new ninja village. It's important that she and I connect. She can continue living at the Gōketsu estate for now, but I'll make a point of spending time with her while you're gone.
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A combination of the above quote and the fact that the last time Yuno did a mission with Noburi (several chapters earlier) the mission was specified to be near Leaf; our iron mine is several hundred miles away (near the SW Leaf-Rivers border).

If you want her to connect with the Gouketsu, have her spend appropriate-for-her-culture time with Haru or something.
 
faflec said:
A combination of the above quote and the fact that the last time Yuno did a mission with Noburi (several chapters earlier) the mission was specified to be near Leaf; our iron mine is several hundred miles away (near the SW Leaf-Rivers border).

If you want her to connect with the Gouketsu, have her spend appropriate-for-her-culture time with Haru or something.
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Huh, I didn't realize the mine was that far away. Yeah, I'll remove the segment. If Yuno does get permission, and then gets abducted or killed, Hazou's dead. Sorry, @Noumero, I thought that the mine was relatively close to Leaf :(

RandomOTP said:
[x] Action Plan: Canines and Caves
Words: 239
  • Off Screen
    • With Asuma's approval and input, arrange heavy escort mission for new Koi expert ASAP
    • Complete Chakdar seal before departing.
  • Enable Dungeon Crawl, with Candoru scouting ahead along the way
  • Throughout the mission and combat, Noburi employs mass chakra drain as necessary, so we can all keep using Summons/Shadow Clones
    • Approach the mine cautiously
    • Summon remaining Combat Summons and Shadow Clones before we get there
      • Ask Summons if they sense any threats
      • Have Candour scout out the land around the mine
      • Whenever possible, use Shadow Clones and Summons in combat
    • Clear the land around the mine
      • If Candoru isn't challenged by this, use Summons/Shadow Clones to direct beasts towards him, specifically
    • Have Candoru do the exploration of the mine by himself, scouting ahead as much as possible.
      • Once Candoru gives up/the summons get impatient, send in the remaining summons to help.
        • We're trying to get Candoru to admit he needs help.
    • Once clear/summons need help, maintain vigilance (ninjas and summons both) and cautiously enter the mine.
      • Reinforce as we go to prevent cave-ins
  • If we enter combat alongside summons
    • Avoid explosive seals due to possibility of cave-in/friendly fire.
  • Once inside, ensure that Purifier and Tunneler's Friend seals are always equipped, and a line of substitution targets all the way out.
  • After combat, move salvageable lumber to a reasonably secure location near the mine.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
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