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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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[X] Action Plan: Talk to Tsunade
  • Check with the clan where appropriate.
  • Tsunade:
    • Quietly donate 1M+ ryo to her charity.
    • Meet her at her convenience. Invite Akane/Noburi.
      • The Gouketsu are doing till'n'fills. We're looking to broaden them, coordinating with your efforts:
        • Include sending teachers.
        • Teach ninja MEW in exchange for wall-building.
      • Proposal: Develop tools and techniques for civilian doctors.
        • Med-nin are more effective, but there are few ninja, fewer still willing to help civilians.
        • It'd be difficult, but possible. Civilians invented telescope.
      • What happened to the Hyuga deal? Offer general assistance with her projects, no strings attached.
      • Advice for Goketsu clinic?
  • New Summoner: yourself. Inform the clan.
    • Internally: A tough one, but Akane got SC, and Haru is too new. It's best for the clan, and Leaf.
  • "Basic inferences" (share with Mari):
    • "The Five" aren't cognition-bloodline clans. But they're related:
      • The Frozen Skein involves contacting something. Ami wouldn't "surrender" to it "just because it's more real".
      • Being at risk of "surrender" is alike Keiko's "going too deep". Going deeper equals "nearing" the entity.
      • Keiko goes "deeper" whenever she needs more processing power: it comes from the entity.
      • Conclusion: Mori intelligence is "borrowed" from a sealed horror. Extrapolating, other cognition-bloodline clans are the same, the Five their respective entities. Their "purpose" is to keep the Five sealed?
    • It's exactly what you worried about. They're not existential threats only "inasmuch as they're still sealed", and apparently the Nara, who might be responsible for that, weren't sure until Pain told everyone. For all anyone knows, they could break out at any moment.
    • The Akimichi/Yamanaka probably don't know. Ino seemed surprised by the cognitohazard warning back when, suggesting she didn't recognize the name "Mori".
      • She might've lacked clearance.
  • Misc.:
    • Accept the latest rendition of the Yasuji deal.
    • Begin summoner training.
    • Conduct Ami-style training daily.
 
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RandomOTP said:
Jashin is a god --or as good as --and exists. Hazou has Jashin's favor, for better or worse.
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Well yes, @eaglejarl likes punching and sexy scences. Duh.

RandomOTP said:
Danzou was the one who lead the Scorch Squads
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When in doubt, blame Danzou.

RandomOTP said:
When the Sage gave chakra to the world, the Summoning Species were accidentally given sapience. Humans couldn't tell/didn't care, so the Sage took them to a different realm/reality and left the Summon Scrolls as a way for diplomacy while maintaining the Summon's protection. Fuuinjutsu is forbidden on the 7th Path because the sealwork that protects the 7th Path is infinitely complex and sealing failures are infinitely dangerous.
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Remember: Kagome said it's a prison.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Keiko seems to think that Nara protocol still applies in this case, so I bet she'd feel betrayed if we tried to (essentially) learn Mori/Nara secrets from Isan.
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Yeah, so?

RandomOTP said:
Kagome is a Universal Constant and has a special place in the wider cosmology in MfD/the Out
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I always though that Kagome is immune to grue's mindwipes because of some sealing failure he may even not realized happened when it happened.

Also, Danzō is alive and well. And clearly just faked his death.
 
Byzantine said:
Someone should probably tell the Nara that freaking out about this is pointless. All of Isan knows.

I mean, they aren't stupid, but it is very easy to overlook the obvious when freaking out. And if Yuno knows it there is very little chance that it isn't common knowledge in Isan, in which case it coming out is entirely inevitable and should be prepared for rather than suppressed.
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Wasn't there an omake where Hazō and Kagome had genocided Isan because of the temperature control jutsu being a nuke in waiting? We may get to see the Nara do the same.
 
That went reasonably well. Thankfully there aren't many Nara left, so they can't destroy Isan on their own, and I doubt their ability to convince Asuma to commit Leaf's resources to it at such a difficult time.

It does sound like we'll be visiting Isan soon, though. Honestly, a bit surprised it hasn't come up yet. Leaf needs allies and Keiko makes for a lot of leverage.
 
No time for edits, feel free to yoink.

[x] Action Plan: Yadda Yadda Continue Yadda Yadda
Word count: <300


  • Post-contest:​
    • Celebrate.
      • Thank everyone who made it possible.. Every clan member and resident did something to help.
    • Scroll allocation (done privately with the clan).
      • Inform everyone. [See: In-thread vote.]
      • Internal thoughts: It was a tough choice, but between Akane getting SC and Haru not yet having proven himself, this is the best option for the clan and Leaf.
      • Ask after preferences on the other currently free scrolls?
      • Ok. We'll try to get you those.
        • Tone: Trivial. As if discussing grocery shopping.
        • Note: You are acutely aware it will be monumentally difficult. So be it.
  • Misc:
    • Have words with Akane.
    • Accept the latest reasonable rendition of the Yasuji deal.


[x] Action Plan: It's The Plan We Wanted From Before But With Some Rearrangement + Ruminating At The End (Clever Quip; Cue Laugh Track)
Word count: 315


  • Post-contest:​
    • Celebrate.
      • Thank everyone who made it possible.. Every clan member and resident did something to help.
    • Scroll allocation (done privately with the clan).
      • Inform everyone. [See: In-thread vote.]
      • Internal thoughts: It was a tough choice, but between Akane getting SC and Haru not yet having proven himself, this is the best option for the clan and Leaf.
      • Ask after preferences on the other currently free scrolls?
      • Ok. We'll try to get you those.
        • Tone: Trivial. As if discussing grocery shopping.
        • Note: You are acutely aware it will be monumentally difficult. So be it.
  • Take some quiet alone time to meditate and internally reflect on that meeting with Keiko and Yuno.
    • Seems like you accidentally stumbled upon Big Smartypants Clans' Secrets. Ultra top-secret bloodline stuff?
      • Well, it could be something else, but ... what else (non-Ami related) would be so important that Keiko would automatically flip out?
      • Hmm...
    • Pondering:
    • Hmmm...
      • "The Five are still sealed."
        • Note: Nagato didn't say this as if it were a good thing, necessarily.
      • "Insofar as the Five are, according to Pain, still sealed, they are not an existential threat to be addressed..."
        • Keiko said this with authority.
      • Keiko did say something in that conversation a while ago about contacting entities. Summoner stuff? Or something else?
        • She warned you against doing the Out thing without... defenses in place, when trying to ...interface... with... entities.
        • Interface. Entities. Sealed.
    • Sagessweatyballs, the Smartypants Clans use their bloodlines to talk to Ominuous-Title-Worthy entities from beyond our dimension.
  • Misc:
    • Have words with Akane.
    • Accept the latest reasonable rendition of the Yasuji deal.
 
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Next update is EJ's, right? He likes higher stakes and loathes writing about teenage romance, so...
[X] Action Plan: Talk to Tsunade
[x] Action Plan: It's The Plan We Wanted From Before But With Some Rearrangement + Ruminating At The End (Clever Quip; Cue Laugh Track)

EDIT: I feel like Hazou' about to be eaten by an infohazard... let's do it.
 
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Nolrai said:
So what's the secret that Yuno uncovered?
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"The Five Forbidden Clans"

More specifically:
  • That there's something interesting about the five thinker clans.
  • That they are, in some sense, 'forbidden'.
  • That they might be related to what Pein said about 'the Five are still sealed'.
OOC, we know that the Mori Voice exists, and that Keiko has studiously not told us of its existence (Hazou knows that the Frozen Skein is a depresso espresso, but not that there's an actual voice at the heart of it).

There has been much speculation that the Mori Voice is a chakra entity (perhaps a facet of chakra itself) sealed away and only accessible from the Frozen Skein. In similar veins, there has been speculation of whether there's also a Nara Voice, a Tama Voice, etc.

It appears that in the modern world, those three points I mentioned above are unknown outside of the Nara and/or the other four thinker clans, and they want to keep it that way. If Isan knows about "The Five Forbidden Clans" then Isan might know about the Mori/Nara/etc. voice, and expose some of the thinker clans' deepest darkest secrets to the world by accident.

Knowing that a secret exists is half the battle of figuring it out. Even if all you know is that there's something Forbidden, perhaps something sealed, about the thinker clans, then you know to probe for information. Even if Isan doesn't know the true secrets, they appear to know enough to shred the Nara's such protections. It's too late to stop Team Uplift from learning that there are secrets behind the thinker clans, but it's not too late to contain the OPSEC breach, and to prepare for the worst once Leaf and Isan make contact again.
 
[X] Action Plan: Talk to Tsunade

If this plan were an album, it'd probably be called something like "Now that's what I call Uplift! Vol. VI"
 
Is the dog Scroll vote still open? Because giving it to Hazou is a shitty plan, as I've explained before.
  • Hazou has much better places to spend his XP.
  • Hazou is a clan leader and sealmaster, he is not going out on many missions, he is too valuable at home.
    • When he does go out on non-trivial missions he will be well protected and supported, as Kagome was, and he can always request that scrollholder join him.
  • None of our economic plans require Hazou to be the one actually holding the scroll.
  • The finer control we would have over the scroll is easily offset by the chance that hivemind induced stupidity messes things up.
    • We are still outside-context actors here, we can't catch everything that people can in-story.
    • Hazou is already in one of the best places he could be as our PC, he's got power, money, and competent trustworthy minions he can delegate to.
      • The hivemind is much better at big picture and long term planning than it is at handling short term details.
Hazou loses to Akane and Haru on:
  • Relative benefit to clan (since Hazou's opportunity costs are higher than everyone else's)
  • Relative benefit to Leaf (since Hazou will not be in combat as much as others)
  • Relative benefit for the Hivemind (Fine control just means we can make bigger mistakes without giving us any benefits that could compensate)
Seriously people, I beg you: Don't give the scroll to Hazou, it is a bad idea.

[x] Dog Scroll: Akane
[x] Dog Scroll: Haru
 
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The dog vote had better not still be open tbh.

e: these multi-update votes where we have to vote the same thing multiple times are exhausting, is what I'm saying.
 
Ohh, I get it. It's pretty simple actually.
  • The sage built the ChakrAI from some super-intelligence he had short-term control over.
    • Split its processing into at least 6 segments:
      • 5 sealed into bloodlines
      • The ChakrAI itself
    • Other bits/capabilities were likely cut up into the tailed beasts, etc...
  • The process of sealing each segment into a bloodline helps constrain the AI to a more human friendly value function, while still allowing its intelligence to be 'used for good'.
    • The drawbacks are meant to limit each clan's total power, so they don't end up dominating the entire human population.
    • The bloodlines are basically acting the role of the SCP foundation in this universe.
    • A person who has all their bloodlines gets root access to the full computational power of the AI, with no checks on its use.
  • The clans have worked to suppress the information about their relationship to further reduce the chances of someone doing something stupid.
    • There is a high incentive for short sighted person to create a forced breeding program, among other things.
  • Shikaku (and now presumably Keiko and Shikamaru) know they need a higher access level to help fix long-term damage.
All that's left is figuring out whether we're on the inside or the outside of the box.
  • The Out, chakra in general, sealing, dojutsu and how they work seem to support everyone being inside the box, but makes it harder to explain how the sage came to exist at all.
  • Hazou et.al. being outside the box would provides a much better explanation of how the sage came to exist, and why the sage created/distributed chaka, the tailed beasts, bloodlines, and all the other stuff, at the cost of requiring a more complicated explanation for how each of those things works.
Right now I'm leaning towards everyone being outside of the box, but not by much.
 
Hm...perhaps the Five are simply Tailed Beasts whose dominions are rooted in some form of intelligence, and the Sage (or whomever) distilled their intelligence and made bloodlines out of it, in order to make them available but not a threat.

...maybe I'm just crazy.
 
Velorien said:
Before the timeskip, deep in the forest...
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I would suggest editing this so that story only readers aren't confused in the future. It makes sense now since it is the most recent update but I have a feeling that there will be plenty of timeskips in the thread's future too.

Jello_Raptor said:
Is the dog Scroll vote still open? Because giving it to Hazou is a shitty plan, as I've explained before.
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I respectfully disagree.

Jello_Raptor said:
Hazou has much better places to spend his XP.
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What are these places? I concede that sealing is always his main strength but summoning as a secondary priority would also act as another force multiplier.

Jello_Raptor said:
Hazou is a clan leader and sealmaster, he is not going out on many missions, he is too valuable at home.
  • When he does go out on non-trivial missions he will be well protected and supported, as Kagome was, and he can always request that scrollholder join him.
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Asuma noted that a summoner does not necessarily have to go out on missions when we were discussing Noburi's future when his cousin visited.

And on a more meta level EJ likes writing combat, so having an excuse (as well as more firepower) when we go out is a win-win.

Jello_Raptor said:
None of our economic plans require Hazou to be the one actually holding the scroll.
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If we use summons as intermediaries to transport goods long distances we will need at least one summoner stationed at home while the others go out to the receive them. Hazou already needs to stay in Leaf so it might as well be him.

Jello_Raptor said:
The finer control we would have over the scroll is easily offset by the chance that hivemind induced stupidity messes things up.
  • We are still outside-context actors here, we can't catch everything that people can in-story.
  • Hazou is already in one of the best places he could be as our PC, he's got power, money, and competent trustworthy minions he can delegate to.
    • The hivemind is much better at big picture and long term planning than it is at handling short term details.
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The more details we have the better we can focus: the hivemind can do long term planning but it has proven itself far more capable of optimizing short term plans (such as Bodies Hit the Floor).

Jello_Raptor said:
Hazou loses to Akane and Haru on:
  • Relative benefit to clan (since Hazou's opportunity costs are higher than everyone else's)
  • Relative benefit to Leaf (since Hazou will not be in combat as much as others)
  • Relative benefit for the Hivemind (Fine control just means we can make bigger mistakes without giving us any benefits that could compensate)
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Hazou's personal benefits if he has the scroll:
  • He receives Summoner training which may help with his Out-related problems
  • Hazou can personally access the 7th path, giving us a first person perspective of another dimension and therefore better intel
  • Hazou is best suited to adapting immediately to developments when he can address them in person. If anything new grabs or demands his attention on the seventh path having the ability to just go there and address it immediately is quite valuable.
I will say though, that I believe choosing who will be the summoner without first talking to the Dog Clan seems a bit hasty. We have the ability to have Keiko or another trusted summoner to simply go to them and ask for an audience to pitch each of our pre-selected clan mates to the Dogs and then get their input.
  • Maybe they would like to have someone like Akane who is selfless to a fault and has the personality of a puppy?
  • Maybe they would like Haru's sense of loyality to his home?
  • Maybe they would be offended if they learn that a clan head did not even consider allying with them since it could show a lack of respect?
  • Maybe they're fascists even worse than the Pangolins and we want nothing to do with them?
We really need to start treating the summoning clans as people before we go about using them as tools again. It's what made Akane so mad at us in the first place and we promised to learn from our mistake.

[X] Dog Scroll: Summoner Selection Screening
Arrange a meeting with the dogs before anyone signs the scroll to have our candidates (so long as they want to be candidates in the first place) assessed by the Dogs facilitated by a friendly (to us) Leaf summoner (probably Keiko unless the Dogs dislike the Pangolins). When said summoner returns have them debrief us on what the Dogs are like currently and compare that to notes about the Dogs from people who worked with Kakashi and any other historical/official records.

Once we have that information then we can start making informed decisions. I'd much rather have a Dog summoner who will work well with the Dogs rather than assuming any summoner is the same as another. Personality differences matter especially for such a close bond.
 
Dictator4Hire said:
Once we have that information then we can start making informed decisions. I'd much rather have a Dog summoner who will work well with the Dogs rather than assuming any summoner is the same as another. Personality differences matter especially for such a close bond.
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There is no problem with that suggestion, but sending information between the Pangolin and Toads took ~10 days while the Condors where unconquered and in Enma's chapter he told us that he liked exchanging messages via Jiraiya with the Otters. None of those clans are that far away from each other, but it does take time.

We don't know how far away the Dog's are, for all we know it takes a month before the messanger arrives (and Pangolin aren't well liked so I wouldn't send them).

So our current vote is more like "Who starts training now". Just my opinion on things though.

e: We can still send the message.
 
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I've maintained that, narratively, I think Akane should get it. Hazou's a weapon's dealer for the 7th Path and his actions allowed the Pangolins to subsume the Condors --an action that will likely cause pretty big clan trouble between the Goketsu and whomever gets the Condor Scroll. Depending on how the Dogs view the Sage's "no seals" law, Hazou might be in for a Bad Time, regardless of the Dogs' stance on the Pangolin/Condor War.

That said, from a meta-perspective, EJ has said that he wants to write Hazou as the Dog Summoner, and I trust our QMs to write that struggle rather well. Whatever they might decide the culture/personality of the Dog Summons to be, I respect their ability to write enough that I'm confident in saying that they won't gloss over the narrative of the story. So, in the interest of QM-enjoyment of the Quest, I think that the scroll should go to Hazou.

Of course, I say that with the personal opinion that, regardless of whether or not Akane gets the Scroll, the Dogs interacting with Team Uplift is where the real entertainment is going to be.

Edit: What do you think Keiko and Kagome's reaction to the Dogs are going to be? Because I picture Keiko like a cat who's adopted a dog --being surrounded by puppers while acting as casually as she can, pretending like the dogs aren't even there, even as she gives them pets. I feel like Kagome would be the grumpy old dad, insisting that he doesn't like/trust the Dogs at all, but the moment no one's looking, he's sneaking them slices of jerky.
 
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RandomOTP said:
Of course, I say that with the personal opinion that, regardless of whether or not Akane gets the Scroll, the Dogs interacting with Team Uplift is where the real entertainment is going to be.

Edit: What do you think Keiko and Kagome's reaction to the Dogs are going to be? Because I picture Keiko like a cat who's adopted a dog --being surrounded by puppers while acting as casually as she can, pretending like the dogs aren't even there, even as she gives them pets. I feel like Kagome would be the grumpy old dad, insisting that he doesn't like/trust the Dogs at all, but the moment no one's looking, he's sneaking them slices of jerky.
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Assuming that this isn't a cultural/diplomatic faux pas. Maybe we have to sniff their butts as greetings?
 
RandomOTP said:
I've maintained that, narratively, I think Akane should get it. Hazou's a weapon's dealer for the 7th Path and his actions allowed the Pangolins to subsume the Condors --an action that will likely cause inter-clan trouble with whomever gets the Condor Scroll. Depending on how the Dogs view the Sage's "no seals" law, Hazou might be in for a Bad Time, regardless of the Dogs' stance on the Pangolin/Condor War.
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Actually we have a perfect way around this. Hazō had Kei claim that he was the one to cancel the deal. Basically the deal was made under Jiraiya and as soon as Hazo was in power he canceled the deal
 
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