- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
PSA: I know that @faflec 's plan won, but eh. Apparently democracy isn't really a thing these days so I'm going to disregard the will of the majority and go with @RandomOTP 's plan instead.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- Liverpool
Feeling salty about your political climate? Can't blame you.
And no worries. [X] Let Bird Duke do as he wants, we got shinies.
- Location
- Yes.
faflec.reaction
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Wait, I have a plan? ...Which one of my cyclical, navel-gazing musings actually amounts to a plan?
Edit: not necessarily complaining, just a little confused and surprised.
Edit2: oh, this was a joke about my first vote? Oh, I get it! ^.^
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- Location
- Europe
Still one of the better plans we ever voted in or not I guess. The Oro talk gave us -1XP , this one should give us at least 1 if not more.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's the joke. There's only one plan this week, it's just that @RandomOTP forgot to put the 'Action Plan:' on the front.
(For the record, the actual policy is that we use the votes as written, regardless of typoes or etc, so if the voting base ends up split due to a typo by one or more voters, that's not our concern.)
EDIT: Incidentally, @RandomOTP , I hope you don't mind me using your name in this joke. It's not intended as a criticism.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Damn it, if you hadn't explained the joke then after the update came out we could have asked where our bonus XP was!!
Perhaps info post or add to first post? I'd imagine most assume the opposite so could save some future salt
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
CC: @MMKII, @Inferno Vulpix, @Cariyaga.
As you all know, raising Resolve increases the amount of clone-hours we could absorb daily, which increases our XP gain rate, which means a feedback loop. It is therefore optimal, from an XP-maximization perspective, to monofocus on Resolve, and only detour into raising other skills when the columns require us to.
I've built a tool for thorough evaluation of such paths via spreadsheet magic. First, a step-by-step summary of one such path:
Here's the spreadsheet. You are encouraged to copy it over and revise my build; I'm not at all sure the above is an optimal end-state.
As you all know, raising Resolve increases the amount of clone-hours we could absorb daily, which increases our XP gain rate, which means a feedback loop. It is therefore optimal, from an XP-maximization perspective, to monofocus on Resolve, and only detour into raising other skills when the columns require us to.
I've built a tool for thorough evaluation of such paths via spreadsheet magic. First, a step-by-step summary of one such path:
- Spend all our current XP (266) to raise Resolve to 28 and Shadow Clone to 10. 15 XP will be left.
- (Edit: That's a mistake. It's more optimal to spend all XP on Shadow Clones until they're at 30, then focus on Resolve; this saves about nine days. I fixed it in the spreadsheet, but it's relatively minor, so I won't be rewriting the rest of the post.)
- Wait ~99 days. Raise SC to 30. From here on out, it's a cycle of grinding Resolve and detouring to maintain columns.
- Grind 1: For the next 175 days, continuously raise Resolve until Resolve 59.
- (Note: During the first Grind period, it's important that we take each next Resolve level as soon as it is available, as opposed to buying them in batches: this speeds it up by about two months. It's not necessary during further Grind periods (shaves off ~two weeks combined, on the scale of years).)
- Detour 1: At that point, we receive 10 XP per day, and need to raise one other skill to 50 as we raise Resolve to 60.
- Example: go Presence 15->50, which'd take ~122 days.
- Grind 2: ~56 days to Resolve 69.
- Detour 2: 11.2 XP/day. Need to raise two other skills, one to 60 and one to 50.
- Example: Presence 50->60, Empathy 10->50, and Resolve 70. Takes 165 days.
- Grind 3: ~57 days to Resolve 79.
- Detour 3: 12.8 XP/day. Need to raise three skills: one to 70, one to 60, one to 50.
- Example: Presence 60->70, Empathy 50->60, Rapport 10->50, and Resolve 80. Takes ~203 days.
- Grind 4: ~58 days to Resolve 89.
- Detour 4: 14 XP/day.
Physique raises itself to 51 via PCJ around this point. Need to raise four skills: one to 80, one to 70, one to 60, one to 50.- Example: Presence 70->80, Empathy 60->70, Rapport 50->60, Deceit 24->50, and Resolve 90. Takes ~216 days.
- Grind 5: ~59 days to Resolve 99.
- Final stage: 15.2 XP/day. That's it, that's the victory condition. (Well, almost. There'll be a brief five-year period where Elder Gods would be able to stop us, but afterwards we'll probably become the most dangerous thing in the setting.)
- Resolve 100
- Presence 90
- Empathy 80
- Rapport 70
- Sealing 60
- Deceit 60
- Alertness 50
- Calligraphy 50
- MedKnow 50
- Physique 45
- Athletics 40
- Chakra Reserves 40
- Taijutsu 40
- Shadow Clone 30
- PEA 30
- Technique Hacking 30
Here's the spreadsheet. You are encouraged to copy it over and revise my build; I'm not at all sure the above is an optimal end-state.
- Each step describes a character sheet state, including the cost (in XP and time) of moving to that state from the previous state. It also tracks the current XP bonus and the maximum number of clones Hazou can use for one-block training.
- The skills that are raised during any given step are marked.
- I've marked rows alongside Resolve 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, and 100; they're the "detour" periods.
- Yes, I took into account that CR, TH, and Sealing are double-cost.
- This table assumes we'll never go beyond SC 30. It doesn't work for SC 40+; you'll need to fiddle with the formulas if you want that for some reason.
- Some numbers in the first three rows are calculated manually, since they need to take into account our current nonzero XP and generalizing formulas wasn't cost-efficient. Don't touch them.
- Physique is calculated automatically. Don't touch it. Yes, it assumes that SC bonus XP won't count towards it.
- Base XP is placed in the upper-right corner of the table; I've set it to 4.
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- Location
- Yes.
Statement of curiosity: Why go Resolve 28 and SC 10, instead of rushing for SC 30 (for the XP bonus) and then grind Resolve?
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Yep, I spotted this inefficiency minutes after posting. I'll tweak it in the spreadsheet in a moment.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I don't feel like working it out, but this probably saves single digit amounts of days in the long run. Of course, we shall do it.
Because Shadow Clones are really the Power of Friendship.
And Friendship is Optimal.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Twelve days, actually. Fixed.
Edit: No, wait, it's indeed nine days, taking the Severe Consequence into account. It expires in about 68 days, yes?
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Approximately, yes. We healed 1-2 other Consequences during this time period IIRC, so it likely heals in ~68 days with a 2ish day error spread.
This is assuming that Shadow Clones do not accelerate the healing of mental consequences or something.
(I'm wondering how much mileage you would get using Earth jutsu as column skills for the Resolve rush? I think this saves you some ~4k XP in the long run but the catch 22 is that they're just not nearly as useful as the social skills are from a utility standpoint. Less so to the extent that its probably not too worthwhile to plan for that scenario.)
- Location
- Yes.
Wait a second, wouldn't it be better to prioritize Chakra Reserves over Resolve, and only level the latter to ensure that we win the Resolve vs. clone sickness roll? Chakra Reserves is what tells us how many clones we can make at a given time, which in turn tells us how much bonus XP we get. Resolve...doesn't.
Like, if we rush SC 30, we'll be able to do 1 SC (costing 175CP) and run the Resolve check at 20 vs. 23, meaning we'd have to level Resolve to 23+ (or wait for the Consequence to heal, whichever comes first); but after that our priority should be to get CR 21 since we'll be able to make 2 clones at a time without dying, and then level Resolve to 26+ to up things.
Shouldn't our priority should be SC 30 and then working CR to the level where we can get the next tier of clones (CR 21, 26, 31...) and then leveling Resolve to compensate for the clone sickness roll?
Like, if we rush SC 30, we'll be able to do 1 SC (costing 175CP) and run the Resolve check at 20 vs. 23, meaning we'd have to level Resolve to 23+ (or wait for the Consequence to heal, whichever comes first); but after that our priority should be to get CR 21 since we'll be able to make 2 clones at a time without dying, and then level Resolve to 26+ to up things.
Shouldn't our priority should be SC 30 and then working CR to the level where we can get the next tier of clones (CR 21, 26, 31...) and then leveling Resolve to compensate for the clone sickness roll?
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Chakra is factored out of most of these plans under the assumption that a sufficiently large chakra farm will be present to allow us to cast SC as many times as we want, to my understanding.
- Location
- Yes.
Ah, I see, my mistake.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
This basically hinges on routine access to a Wakahisa or being a Jinchuuriki. If you don't have one of those, then you're essentially up shit creek and this takes another 10 years to do or some shit like that even if you're minmaxing.
If only PotO was available. We could cut down the amount of training days before we hit optimum training time.
I like the new focus on becoming a social-spec first and then seal master second.
We should do a more indepth analysis of builds that would be optimal.
Here's what we know:
-With SC, social skills are easily transferable between clones.
-All clones can cast justu (except for summoning).
-Clones do not benefit from iron nerve and requires calligraphy for them to function better with sealing (but they can infuse seals).
Some thoughts:
--> Deceit/Stealth may be a better skill to raise over empathy. SC clones make excellent suicide bombers (WMDs). If on the off chance we ever deign to develop seal nukes, we could easily take out entire settlements. Just imagine, Hazo, with Noburi, starts making 5 clones and putting them in various stages of dress. If our deceit is high enough, if even one of the clones can get into a hidden village, we could do enormous damage with minimal cost. Even if we didn't have nuke seals, let's do some quick math:
Heck, another better idea would be to arm said clone with skywalkers, use storage seals to suddenly poof into existence large weights to accelerate it into villages, and recreate the era of aerial bombardment. This is like the new nukes guys! If leaf strikes first we can avoid the cold war!
I like the new focus on becoming a social-spec first and then seal master second.
We should do a more indepth analysis of builds that would be optimal.
Here's what we know:
-With SC, social skills are easily transferable between clones.
-All clones can cast justu (except for summoning).
-Clones do not benefit from iron nerve and requires calligraphy for them to function better with sealing (but they can infuse seals).
Some thoughts:
--> Deceit/Stealth may be a better skill to raise over empathy. SC clones make excellent suicide bombers (WMDs). If on the off chance we ever deign to develop seal nukes, we could easily take out entire settlements. Just imagine, Hazo, with Noburi, starts making 5 clones and putting them in various stages of dress. If our deceit is high enough, if even one of the clones can get into a hidden village, we could do enormous damage with minimal cost. Even if we didn't have nuke seals, let's do some quick math:
- The human body has an average surface area of 1.9m^2.
- Each seal, assuming it is 100mm by 50mm, has an area of 0.0005m^2.
- If we covered every square inch of a SC clones naked body (assuming it needs direct touch to infuse them all), we could fit at least 3800 explosive tags on a singular SC clone.
- Assuming each explosive tag is about half as powerful as a modern hand grenade, which gives off 800kJ, the total energy dispersed is 1,520,000,000 kJ. (This is my wonkiest assumption here, but reading through the past, it seems about right. Explosive tags give off audible shock waves and create enough sound to completely drown out conversation when set off about 5-10 feet away, so it is somewhat equivalent to hand grenades).
- In comparison, 1 tonne of TNT is about 4.184E+09 J or 4,184,000 kJ, meaning that such a suicide bomber would be equivalent to 363 tonnes of TNT.
Heck, another better idea would be to arm said clone with skywalkers, use storage seals to suddenly poof into existence large weights to accelerate it into villages, and recreate the era of aerial bombardment. This is like the new nukes guys! If leaf strikes first we can avoid the cold war!
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- Location
- Yes.
I'll point out that explosive seals don't detonate when destroyed and seals can only be activated by the user's hands (and feet, if they're modified like Skywalkers were). You'd need to do some sort of modified SIN, while also making sure to keep the seals far enough apart to avoid a sealing failure like the Blotch.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
A very chilling realization.
It could potentially be very dangerous to let this leak to other folks in Leaf. On the scale of
Assuming that this is some way to get another +10 XP/day without being a Jinchuuriki so long as you have a Wakahisa, I would rather not let:
1)Orochimaru
2)Ami
3)Kabuto
and to a lesser extent
4)Ryugamine
Know about it. I'm not really sure about their endgoals or motivations, but even if theres a small percentage chance that their end goals and/or methodology for them aren't aligned with ours, well, we should be careful on rolling those dice. I wouldn't bet on it.
Orochimaru would be exceedingly difficult to neutralize for obvious reasons, and the thought of Orochimaru getting another 15-20 Orochimaru's to do 15-20 times more Orochimaru research and being ~2 times better at learning Orochimaru things is probably the biggest setting-level threat I can think of at the moment that doesn't come from a sealing failure. Ami is a close second, with Kabuto not far behind. Ryugamine isn't higher up because the details of SC are presumably neither known to him nor are they easily acquired.
And, well:
SC Docs said:
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Yeah, I realized it was dumb idea almost immediately. What if we copied what we did with Kagome though. A clone having hundreds of storage tags holding extremely dense materials dropping them from a large height? "Meteors enter the Earth's atmosphere at speeds ranging from 14 kilometers/second (31,000 miles per hour) to 45 kilometers per second (100,000 miles per hour)."
If we go up high enough and start dropping tonnes and tonnes of boulders via storage seals, aim wouldn't even matter. Imagine 40 clones dropping 200 boulders each. Assuming a boulder was dropped from a height of 9448.8 meters: the energy would be 1000kg*9.8m/s^2*9448.8m = 92,598,240J. Of course, friction would greatly reduce this but I'm too lazy to do that indepth of a calculation. I'm going assume half.
1 tonne of TNT = 4,184,000,000 J
1 boulder = 46,299,120 J = 11kg of TNT.
Not that bad, still a very viable strategy. If we go up higher, we could larger impacts. Or if we could fit aerodynamically shaped high density objects, we could get our full worth.
Note: What about giant bolders with primed explosive tags?
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- Location
- United States
Can someone do the math for Naruto to figure out how high his resolve is to not get clone sickness and then how high Itachi's genjutsu attack was in order to oneshot Natuto despite that ridiculously high resolve?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Completely ignoring the moral of my previous post because magitech WMDs are fun:
With SC we can probably send one up very high into the atmosphere with protective gear and Tunneler's Friends and have them set up a whole bunch of Skytowers + a ninja wire net over one of the other villages.
Fill the net with an absolute fuckton of rock inside a big MEW box. Take down the Skytowers in synchronization.
Yay Minor Asteroid Drop no Jutsu!