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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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1234qwerty said:
Looking at the plan, you're right it's not clear whether we run the plan by Mari. What if Mari OKs not going to Asuma? I'll make edits when I'm at a keyboard, but any other suggestions?
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If she's crazy enough to allow us to do the mission without getting our all-but-legally-Hokage's permission, yes.

As for your plan...
  • What the fuck are Macerator nets supposed to accomplish? I have no visual understanding, even after having read your mechanism: how are they supposed to boost our speed? I don't understand how launching the planks speeds us up, and (citation needed here) would normal humans be able to handle moving at such speeds without protection?
  • Is Chouza going to have the time to speak with us? IIRC he's leading a major part of the relief effort, and while it may be dying down he's probably still got his hands full.
  • Why can't Akane come? How is i–are you sending Hazou alone ARE YOU INSANE WHY THE FUCK EVERYONE IN THE KNOW IS GOING TO THINK HAZOU IS TRYING TO ESCAPE AND KEIKO IS GOING TO KILL HIM AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
 
As I've said on the discord, suggesting we or someone else go on a skywalker scouting mission to see what Iwa isn't telling us seems like a good idea to me. Worst case we're suggesting something they already have covered. But we need to actually get Asuma's permission (I see little reason he is going to deny sending a scout to figure out if Iwa is bluffing.)
 
1234qwerty said:
How do the nets work? Imagine Hazou had a tow rope attached to his waist and a plane was pulling him along. This is kind of like that, except a semicircular net attached to Hazou and instead of a plane macerators are shooting out chunks of wood with a lot of momentum that is also transferred to Hazou. Each time the wood is sealed/resealed, it adds part of the 20/s macerators shoot their contents out at to Hazou. If 300m/s is too fast, Hazou can judge for himself how high he's comfortable with. Eye and ear protection would be good. This isn't a half baked idea, I'm just implementing something that was thought up a long time ago.
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Um. I don't think anyone ever did the biologic trauma assessment of that set up. Because that will kill or cripple you if applied even a bit wrong.
 
Twinnstars said:
Flight that requires clan secrets to function, purrrfect
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That isn't the problem. The problem is those harnesses are *not* trivial to make in such a way that you don't shear limbs or break bones when exposed to sudden acceleration (or deceleration). Climbing harnesses to this day occasionally get recalled because they were calibrated a bit wrong and left people traumatically injured. It's much rarer now that we have consistent manufacture, but trying this in less than a day? You're just asking for Hazou to lose an arm or a leg.
 
1234qwerty said:
Each time the wood is sealed/resealed, it adds part of the 20/s macerators shoot their contents out at to Hazou.
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Macerators convert wood planks to wood chips on storage and you can't storage seal a pile of woodchips. You can only storage seal stuff with a physical bounded volume. i.e a solid object or closed container IIRC. I also don't see how you are going to maintain a particular trajectory when the nets are swinging around in different directions due to momentum and dropping down due to gravity.
 
1234qwerty said:
If Chouza doesn't have time, that has a graceful failure mode, doesn't it? It gets skipped. Unfortunately, Hazou has to go it alone on such short notice, partially because of the dexterity required for execution, partially to keep the technique secret. Technically, we could bring one person if we strapped them to Hazou's back.
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I don't trust that Hazou has the dexterity, even accounting for IN. If he did, Skyhoppers would be a thing.
1234qwerty said:
How do the nets work? Imagine Hazou had a tow rope attached to his waist and a plane was pulling him along. This is kind of like that, except a semicircular net attached to Hazou and instead of a plane macerators are shooting out chunks of wood with a lot of momentum that is also transferred to Hazou. Each time the wood is sealed/resealed, it adds part of the 20/s macerators shoot their contents out at to Hazou. If 300m/s is too fast, Hazou can judge for himself how high he's comfortable with. Eye and ear protection would be good. This isn't a half baked idea, I'm just implementing something that was thought up a long time ago.
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So you're launching the wood at a net which is connected to Hazou, and hoping that the wood works...OK, I'm not sure the Macerators (which are just storage seals) can seal fast-moving objects midair, nor will you be able to distribute the sudden increase in momentum from their use effectively (though you could mitigate this with lighter weights).

But honestly? My biggest issue with this is that I don't think the increase in speed is going to be worth all the prep time we'd need to get it to work. We already have the speed to get there within a matter of hours, and I'm pretty sure getting the thing to work is going to take a significant percentage of tha time.
 
faflec said:
Iwa: This makes no sense. Why didn't they strike earlier, while we were reeling and disorganized? Why give us the opportunity to fortify and reorganize? It's been 3 days!!!
  • Did Akatsuki attack all the nations? Iwa might've recognized Deidara's work, and deduced that they attacked us as well. Leaf's got fertile land Iwa needs, so they might be bluffing by claiming responsibility and trying to force us into capitulating.
  • OTOH, if Iwa was responsible, or aren't hurt badly by Akatsuki's attack, they might have the strength to attack if we call their bluff.
  • ...you know, it is surprising that Leaf was attacked mere hours after Orochimaru came back.
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Maybe:
  • Orochimaru's return triggered the attack?
Unless you want to imply that Oro might be behind it, which sounds weird but isn't impossible.

Also we could make some skywalkers, it's not like Hazou can infuse them right now anyway. That would be helpful for sending any scouts anywhere.

[X] Action Plan: Rocks Fell, Everyone Died
 
Kiba said:
@faflec I am weary of casting suspicion on any Leaf ninja.
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ContextBot said:
Maybe:
  • Orochimaru's return triggered the attack?
Unless you want to imply that Oro might be behind it, which sounds weird but isn't impossible.

Also we could make some skywalkers, it's not like Hazou can infuse them right now anyway. That would be helpful for sending any scouts anywhere.

[X] Action Plan: Rocks Fell, Everyone Died
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Changes made. I didn't add making Skywalkers since Kagome hasn't cleared us to make seals, or seal blanks.
1234qwerty said:
but it seems worth a try before giving up, no?
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I thought the whole point of this was to get the information as quickly as possible, not do experiments in an effort to speed things up and hope that the time to test the experiment doesn't outpace the time saved.
1234qwerty said:
I was under the impression it would take 9 hours to get there normally and take many skywalkers, maybe more than Leaf has? This saves skywalkers and lets us do a round trip before the Iwa ninja in Leaf even start making their way back. I could cap the time Hazou tries making this work at 2 hours, or however long it would take to gather storage scrolls and rubble. To be honest, my preference would be to use force walls instead, but I don't want to rely on Hazou figuring out curveballs in using them mid-update. I'd use rocket boot seals for the whole trip if we had enough, but I don't think we do. Any other idea to replace the macerators with? It'd be safer if we rigged up a balloon and enclosed box to shoot them into but for that I truly think we don't have the prep time.
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The 9 hours is without Skywalkers FMPOV; Skywalkers just makes it impossible to attack/move from. There's nothing stopping Hazou from moving to the border (or somewhere near the border) normally, then use Skywalkers to do the rest of the distance.
faflec said:
[X] Action Plan: Rocks Fell, Everyone Died
Word count: 295

Grab Mari and talk to her about Iwa's appearance.
  • Iwa: This makes no sense. Why didn't they strike earlier, while we were reeling and disorganized? Why give us the opportunity to fortify and reorganize? It's been 3 days!!!
    • Did Akatsuki attack all the nations? Iwa might've recognized Deidara's work, and deduced that they attacked us as well. Leaf's got fertile land Iwa needs, so they might be bluffing by claiming responsibility and trying to force us into capitulating.
    • OTOH, if Iwa wasresponsible, or aren't hurt badly by Akatsuki's attack, they might have the strength to attack if we call their bluff.
      • Upon consideration, Orochimaru's return to Leaf may have precipitated the enemy to attack early.
  • Regardless, Leaf needs to demonstrate their strength quickly, and negotiate like hell.
    • Scouting missions to the Iwa border and to Suna seem to be priorities.
      • Checking the "relief party"'s strength lets us know how much threat we're under; though they'd have to move quickly.
      • Suna's our ally, and them being hit provides evidence in favor of an Akatsuki attack.
    • Keep tabs on the Iwa-nin, and see what other saboteurs are nearby (check underground). Should mass sensor-types, on Skywalkers if needed.
    • We should also verify their story. Where's the lumber merchant they were escorting?
    • Iwa knows Leaf invented Skywalkers, maybe demonstrate their use en masse as a show of strength?
    • Ami's could be leveraged into suggesting Mist's already helping. Demonstrating a Leaf-Mist alliance could deter Iwa if they knew an attack would be met by Mist's forces.
    • Should we instate Asuma as Hokage? There are pros and cons to doing so...
    • Orochimaru's still alive; his mere presence could make Iwa think twice.
  • Mari, as a more competent <everything>, how should we proceed?
  • Lower priority: Could you check these letters?
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1234qwerty said:
A skywalker team can be sent ahead of Hazou to not waste any time. It's true that Hazou doesn't have to use skywalkers the whole way, but the problem is we don't know where the supporting Iwa ninja are. We don't want to accidentally run into them on the way. I want to emphasize, macerators make an 18 hour round trip into a less than 2 hour round trip.
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Is IN even going to work at the repeatedly increased speeds he'll be moving in? Like, IN works if the individual's circumstances are very very close to the original motion; if Hazou's continually moving at faster and faster speeds, wouldn't shit like wind quickly have a noticeable effect on Hazou's ability to time things right? Not to mention that Hazou has to deal with getting the logs, and keeping the net from tearing from the high speeds...

...come to think of it, how is the net going to be kept ahead of him instead of flapping on his face? They're in front of him, but if they have a lot of slack they're going to just flap in his face instead of staying in front enough to use the thing. Ugh.

Jashin damn, I'm sorry, I feel like I'm a bit of a killjoy here. But I honestly see so many ways this thing can go wrong, and the IC time it'd take to actually figure out how to fix all the issues I'm seeing will make the work impossible to do before a normal Skywalker team gets the intel and back.
 
So I don't like the plan, but I will help with design principals.

A net isn't going to cut it, it will move too much and be too unpredictable, IN doesn't help outside factors like wind, varying air density, etc. You'd need a metal cage, with bars designed to take the blow and distribute it evenly. It would have to be made very precisely, so rigging something with ninja wire ala the skytowers isn't viable. Due to the needs of the harness, a one-size-fits-all design isn't possible, it would probably at their current stage of tech only be possible to make one on an individual basis, and it would take days/weeks of testing for viability for each one.

At this point it would likely be easier to corrupt the seal even more, and have the seal exert equal momentum backwards as the force with which it ejects an object. Then you put the seals on the back of something and use them akin to very strange ion drives.
 
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I'd really like it if you guys would reconsider adding a simple fluffy scene that a QM requested that wouldn't even take up EJ's writing time :(
 
MrCogmor said:
Wouldn't being subjected to that force tear apart the seal?
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Possibly! We'd need to experiment very carefully. But I think if we can have the opposing force ejected out the same distance below the seal as the object is ejected above it the seal itself won't be touched by the force.

As I said earlier I'm basically trying to create a seal-based ion drive, where you can plaster the seal to the outside of a box and then have the box go flying. If this works the next step would be a mechanism for repeated usage, or for automatically exchanging one for the next.
 
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