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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Kiba said:
OK. Technically, this is possible. But we're going to pay a very high price for it.
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Not really, a ninja can just walk into Iron and then go over the ocean, so he doesn't have to use as many Skywalkers in the first place. And the price of confirmation, if this was Akatsuki or not seems like a good investment instead of speculating.
 
Kiba said:
I just remembered EJ on Discord saying it wasn't Rock as he laughed manically. Granted, this might be an inaccurate memory.
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The exact quote is "Hidden Rock did not show up at dinner". Contextually, the emphasis' on the "at dinner" part. Knowing EJ's penchant for technical honesty, it could be interpreted as evidence in favour of Rock being behind the attack — after all, it indeed happened not at dinner, but at morning. But it's also possible that EJ was playing one level higher, and the statement's surface-level implication (Rock didn't do it) is correct, or he was playing two levels higher, or three...

The bottom line is, it's not a straightforward statement, and couldn't be used as evidence either way.
 
Kiba said:
This whole damn thing makes me depressed. Giving Skywalker to Leaf seems like the worst idea ever.
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Speaking of joining Leaf, we joined because we wanted help stealing the capybara scroll, right? How likely would we have been to succeed on that if we hadn't joined?

Edit:
Assuming we had actually gone in that timeline. :thonk:
 
Sentient Tree said:
Speaking of joining Leaf, we joined because we wanted help stealing the capybara scroll, right? How likely would we have been to succeed on that if we hadn't joined?
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No, we joined because Hazou IC decided it was our best option. We joined then and there because the Capybara mission accelerated our plans.

As for our chances of success...they're pretty high, but likely with Bad Consequences. It's a hospital in Sound, we could have given Mist even more footholds over the continent.
 
Kiba said:
Giving Skywalker to Leaf seems like the worst idea ever.
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We can take them away, you know. Invite Leaf's top sealmasters to a meeting, kill them all, then escape into the woods. The Tower forbade clans from stockpiling them, and now the Tower's own stockpile is gone; it's entirely possible there are no Skywalker blanks left in all of Leaf except those at our disposal.

Shall we take our toys and go? Perhaps re-sell them to Cloud in exchange for citizenship... (Though, honestly, I'd vote for Snow instead. We could single-handedly turn that minor village into a superpower, and take over it in the process. Yukino will probably appreciate it, too.)
 
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Noumero said:
We can take them away, you know. Invite Leaf's top sealmasters to a meeting, kill them all, then escape into the woods. The Tower forbade clans from stockpiling them, and now the Tower's own stockpile is gone; it's entirely possible there are no Skywalker blanks left in all of Leaf except those at our disposal.

Shall we take our toys and go? Perhaps re-sell them to Cloud in exchange for citizenship... (Though, honestly, I'd vote for Snow instead. We could single-handedly turn that minor village into a superpower, and take over it in the process. Yukino will probably appreciate it, too.)
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I don't appreciate the joke.
 
Noumero said:
...
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Usually, I tolerate or ignore jokes like this. But I would appreciate it if you stop making them.
eaglejarl said:
Well, first step in fixing a problem: Be sure you have a problem.


Question for the room: Please 'Informative' this post if you agree with Kiba that the way Hazō's agency is handled is damaging your enjoyment of the quest.
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I didn't expect the 'informative' to be high as it was. I find it a relief that I wasn't the only one. However, it isn't as high as I hoped it to be.

eaglejarl said:
Maybe just stop threatening people? Over the entire course of the quest, I think almost every negative consequence has happened as a result of y'all threatening someone. The only exception I can think of is pissing everyone off by leaking Noburi's chakra-drain ability to Minami. The results are usually positive when y'all play nice.
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It was never just about threatening people. Hazo always seem to fail at social interactions. He do dumb things and get ridiculed, blasted for it, or in some case, nearly killed.
 
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Kiba said:
[Our problems were] never just about threatening people.
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Citation needed.


Kiba said:
Hazo always seem to fail at social interactions.
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Neji disagrees. As does the clanless team on the way back from the Exams. As does Honami. As does Kabuto during the final basement discussion. As did Jiraiya during the "rescue Naruto by making him Toad Summoner" conversation.

Seriously, dude. Asymmetric visibility is a thing, so try to do a real evaluation.
 
eaglejarl said:
Neji disagrees. As does the clanless team on the way back from the Exams. As does Honami. As does Kabuto during the final basement discussion. As did Jiraiya during the "rescue Naruto by making him Toad Summoner" conversation.

Seriously, dude. Asymmetric visibility is a thing, so try to do a real evaluation.
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I misspoken. Not always, but frequent enough.
 
Kiba said:
I misspoken. Not always, but frequent enough.
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I think it's gotten a lot better ever since Hazō got rid of his addiction to his own feet. Before that we had a lot of Hazō saying dumb stuff because characterization/compels, but I think recently it's mostly been stuff we told him to say. And most of that seems to be threats.

I think the idea someone had to start showing social combat rolls in chapters might help. We probably think that we can threaten people in part because we think it would work narratively. But if you look at it, there's little reason for any threat Hazō makes to be taken seriously. He has a 5 in intimidation, and doesn't add thousand yard stare points to it anymore. A civilian could potentially be scarier than him.
I think that if we see the rolls more often we'll start remembering that Hazō is actually not specced into threats at all. And hopefully we'll keep them out of our plans then.
 
Sentient Tree said:
I think it's gotten a lot better ever since Hazō got rid of his addiction to his own feet. Before that we had a lot of Hazō saying dumb stuff because characterization/compels, but I think recently it's mostly been stuff we told him to say. And most of that seems to be threats.

I think the idea someone had to start showing social combat rolls in chapters might help. We probably think that we can threaten people in part because we think it would work narratively. But if you look at it, there's little reason for any threat Hazō makes to be taken seriously. He has a 5 in intimidation, and doesn't add thousand yard stare points to it anymore. A civilian could potentially be scarier than him.
I think that if we see the rolls more often we'll start remembering that Hazō is actually not specced into threats at all. And hopefully we'll keep them out of our plans then.
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I want to draw attention to that first point: Hazou spontaneously Ouroborusing is startlingly rare nowadays. He's still not the best at recovering from being put off-balance, but he's improved quite a lot given how little time has actually passed IC.

So instead of being disappointed that Hazou isn't a social god yet, I'm enjoying watching him climb his way up to par at breakneck speed.
 
I hope we get to see good news, like Rock not being behind the attack.

It makes peace a lot harder to achieve when you're trying to work with someone who stabbed your parents in the back.

@eaglejarl

What are your thought on character analysis and will you be implementing structural change around this idea?
 
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Another thought that I've had recently, though I dare not put this in Hazou's head:

Even if Rock is planning to vassalize Leaf, and pulls it off, that doesn't exactly mean Rock wins in the end. Great Britain was unified by Scotland, after all, and it didn't take long before England was the main seat of power and culture, and the same might happen here. Leaf has a larger population and economy than Rock, so it's perfectly plausible that, say, a Rock/Leaf dual-Kageship would over time lean more and more towards Leaf until Leaf is de facto the dominant partner economically and culturally.

Of course, Hazou saying that would be treasonous or something probably, but OOC if Rock is going for vassalization then Leaf's got a good shot at absorbing Rock in the end instead of the other way around.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Another thought that I've had recently, though I dare not put this in Hazou's head:

Even if Rock is planning to vassalize Leaf, and pulls it off, that doesn't exactly mean Rock wins in the end. Great Britain was unified by Scotland, after all, and it didn't take long before England was the main seat of power and culture, and the same might happen here. Leaf has a larger population and economy than Rock, so it's perfectly plausible that, say, a Rock/Leaf dual-Kageship would over time lean more and more towards Leaf until Leaf is de facto the dominant partner economically and culturally.

Of course, Hazou saying that would be treasonous or something probably, but OOC if Rock is going for vassalization then Leaf's got a good shot at absorbing Rock in the end instead of the other way around.
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Hopefully. I am not optimistic given how much Iwa-nin hates Leaf, and Leaf versus Iwa-nin.

It's also a bitter pill to swallow, because it is a subjugation, as opposed to a joint-alliance and/or cooperation.

Inferno Vulpix said:
I want to draw attention to that first point: Hazou spontaneously Ouroborusing is startlingly rare nowadays. He's still not the best at recovering from being put off-balance, but he's improved quite a lot given how little time has actually passed IC.

So instead of being disappointed that Hazou isn't a social god yet, I'm enjoying watching him climb his way up to par at breakneck speed.
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I consider the threat a continuing pattern of Hazo's foot in the mouth issue.
 
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faflec said:
  • Regardless, Leaf needs to demonstrate their strength quickly, and negotiate like hell.
    • Scouting missions to the Iwa border and to Suna seem to be priorities.
      • Checking the "relief party"'s strength lets us know how much threat we're under; though they'd have to move quickly.
      • Suna's our ally, and them being hit provides evidence in favor of an Akatsuki attack.
    • Keep tabs on the Iwa-nin, and see what other saboteurs are nearby (check underground). Should mass sensor-types, on Skywalkers if needed.
    • We should also verify their story. Where's the lumber merchant they were escorting?
    • Iwa knows Leaf invented Skywalkers, maybe demonstrate their use en masse as a show of strength?
    • Ami's could be leveraged into suggesting Mist's already helping. Demonstrating a Leaf-Mist alliance could deter Iwa if they knew an attack would be met by Mist's forces.
    • Should we instate Asuma as Hokage? There are pros and cons to doing so...
    • Orochimaru's still alive; his mere presence could make Iwa think twice.
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Another idea to run by Mari and Asuma:

I'm thinking we should covertly send half a dozen ninja equipped with Skywalkers and 12-SINs to Rock's border, ordered to bomb Rock unless Asuma calls them off in a few days/a week/a month. Getting symmetric leverage over Rock should do wonders for Leaf's chances to survive as a geopolitical entity if negotiations go poorly.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
I want to draw attention to that first point: Hazou spontaneously Ouroborusing is startlingly rare nowadays. He's still not the best at recovering from being put off-balance, but he's improved quite a lot given how little time has actually passed IC.
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I am unfamiliar with the terminology. To me, Ouroboros primarily suggests the villainous(?) secret(?) society from the Trails games, and I think its only mention in MfD so far has been Orochimaru's idea for a clan crest.
 
Noumero said:
Another idea to run by Mari and Asuma:

I'm thinking we should covertly send half a dozen ninja equipped with Skywalkers and 12-SINs to Rock's border, ordered to bomb Rock unless Asuma calls them off in a few days/a week/a month. Getting symmetric leverage over Rock should do wonders for Leaf's chances to survive as a geopolitical entity if negotiations go poorly.
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12-SINs aren't particularly effective tbh.
 
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