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- Yes.
Wait...so I guess the canon flashback where the Third became Hokage during WW1 isn't canon then?
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
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- United States
In terms of a partial review, these two premises are in conflict and need to be reconciled (by lowering the estimate accordingly, at a minimum).
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- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I recall some discussion a while back on how we would do that. If memory serves the main crux of it was sending a message to the Crows and getting in touch with Itachi and bootstrapping that into full Akatsuki interaction. It was never more than an idea, though.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail
Based on new information on how long Minato reigned as kage, I redid the calculation.
I was working on the recalculation based on the new information when you posted. I lowered Minato's income from 500,000,000 million ryo to 250,000,000 and redid the calculation. It helped that I can copy and paste the formula in google once I tweaked the numbers.
Note that Naruto still have more money than God.
Changelog: Economic Questions
- Eliminated a redundant question about income from Naruto's investments. Reducing the # of questions for clan finance from 13 to 12.
- Show more clearly the basis for Naruto's inheritance being what it is.
Based on new information on how long Minato reigned as kage, I redid the calculation.
- How much money Naruto has from his inheritance and ongoing management of that wealth?
- All this information is based on Rihaku's modeling work. See Rihaku's analysis on Naruto's finance.
- We begin by assuming Minato's reign as hokage last a short two years and that all his income before his kageship are insignificant. Him being the greatest sealmaster in the world also add to his income. This gives him 250 million ryo instead of the 500M ryo used in Rihaku's analysis. Adding the Uzumaki wealth, which is estimated to be 360 million ryo, giving Naruto's estate an estimated 610 million ryo. However, 8% percent of his wealth went up in smoke due to the Kyuubi's rampage. Assuming Jiraiya and/or Hirzuen gave Naruto a competent money manager, his wealth will have an assumed 5% compound interest growth.
- 610,000,000 * 0.92 = 561,200,000
- Using the formula: A = P(1 + r/n)^(nt): 561,200,000(1 + 0.05/1)^(1*13) = (1,058,226,298.67 ryo, best case estimate)
- Thus, Naruto's fortune should be worth about 1 billion ryo.
- If we assume that reparation is paid out for the damage, let's assume 24%(Triple of 8% damage).
- 610,000,000 * (1 - 0.24) = 653,600,000
- 463,600,000 * (1 + 0.05/1)^(1*13) = (874,186,942.381 ryo, reparation/donation estimate)
- For an even more pessimistic estimate, let us assume that the Uzumaki are flat broke, giving Naruto only 250 million ryo. Perhaps the interest rate isn't as great as we think it is. Instead of 5%, it's 3%.
- 250,000,000 * (1 + 0.03/1)^(1*13) = (367,133,428.363 ryo, pessimistic estimate)
- For liquid cash, use 5% of whatever we think Naruto have.
I was working on the recalculation based on the new information when you posted. I lowered Minato's income from 500,000,000 million ryo to 250,000,000 and redid the calculation. It helped that I can copy and paste the formula in google once I tweaked the numbers.
Note that Naruto still have more money than God.
Changelog: Economic Questions
- Eliminated a redundant question about income from Naruto's investments. Reducing the # of questions for clan finance from 13 to 12.
- Show more clearly the basis for Naruto's inheritance being what it is.
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- USA
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- He/Him
Link, please?
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- UK
As someone who knows your ground rules on this point and trusts you to have followed them, I feel you're underestimating how legitimate @No-one of Importance's reading is. The story did present the alternative as 'you didn't invent Skywalkers so the quest is over, GG', and whether or not that would be truly adhering to simulationism, it certainly would have not felt like it. This colours how the actual path gets read, even if you didn't intend it that way, even if the presented alternative is not the actual alternative, and even if the readers know in their thinky part of their brain how the sausage is made.
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- United States
"During the First Shinobi World War, Tobirama, by that time the Second Hokage, led a team consisting of Hiruzen, Homura, Koharu, Danzō, Kagami Uchiha, and Torifu Akimichi. During a mission they started to be pursued by Kumogakure's Kinkaku Force, an enemy that somebody would need to distract and inevitably die at the hands of in order for the rest of the team to escape. Hiruzen volunteered to be the decoy, boasting that, as the strongest of their group, he stood the best chance of surviving the encounter; nevertheless, he asked Danzō to look after the others. Tobirama volunteered himself instead, and before going to his death he appointed Hiruzen as Third Hokage."
Hiruzen Sarutobi
Hiruzen Sarutobi (猿飛ヒルゼン, Sarutobi Hiruzen) was the Third Hokage (三代目火影, Sandaime Hokage, literally meaning: Third Fire Shadow) of Konohagakure. A disciple of the village's two previous Hokage, Hiruzen was a powerful ninja, hailed as a "God of Shinobi" and renowned as The Professor (プロフェッサー...
naruto.fandom.com
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- USA
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- He/Him
I'm unclear on your point...could you rephrase?
Oh, I thought you meant that we had done an interlude showing Hiruzen becoming Hokage during the first war.
We moved this incident from the WW1 to WW2, since the timeline did not make sense otherwise.
JulieK
Unintentionally funny
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- Israel
Ooh, something exciting to look forward to!
Re punching: You're the QM, go ahead and introduce some dangerous enemy who needs to be punched.
Re not-punching: It seems incredible that the Hokage had such a high salary. (Was that included in the calculation of the entire Tower budget?)
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I am told the Kage earned 150M ryo per year. No idea if he pay taxes on that or that's after tax calculation.
I just realized my analysis is a slight underestimate WRT Minato's earning. However, that does not affect the general conclusion regarding Naruto's wealth.
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- UK
No-one of Importance said the events around Akatsuki felt scripted. You seemed offended, and pointed out that they were not. My point is that even though they weren't scripted, by some measures they still feel scripted. My expectation is that this perspective is less visible to you from your perspective as a writer. My intent was simply to bridge the inferential gap on this point.
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- The Void
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A system based around a one man having absolute power probably benefits that man
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
I am reasonably confident that both IC and OOC decisions to be working with Jiraiya/Leaf and choosing to sell Skywalkers to them instead of to any other village were motivated by the knowledge that Leaf is the "good one". @faflec, do you recall any chapters/discussions that would serve as strong evidence for that?
That said, you're right: neither Rock nor Cloud are evil incarnate, and if we had a unique opportunity to sell them superweapons in exchange for giving us notable influence on their politics, we would have likely taken it. I predict that our behaviour subsequent to our exaltation would have been different, though, with a lot more focus on trying to influence the village's internal politics.
Also, you were asking: the chapters where we capsized[1] the Sunset Racer are these ones: 139, 139.1, 140.
Interesting. Akatsuki were far from being good people as defined by virtue ethics. Does this mean that, in the hypothetical Pain Quest, assuming we've had strong reasons to believe that we'll be able to destroy all chakra, you would have cheered us on even as we befriended mass murderers and ordered kidnappings and torture?
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- [REDACTED]
@No-one of Importance the only thing of actual value I have to add to this conversation is the observation that isolationism is virtually an inherent net negative from an economic and thus uplift-centric point of view. It's essentially fracturing the market, and larger more unified markets tend to be better for all parties.
Although I disagree with most of what you've said, I do agree that interludes featuring the common folk of this world (regardless of if they're being helped or hurt and who by) would add narrative and moral weight to the quest without sacrificing simulationism. However, it would sacrifice player agency in setting interlude focus and would probably be a lot more spoon heavy for the QMs, which is especially problematic because interludes are generally for when the QMs are low on spoons.
Although I disagree with most of what you've said, I do agree that interludes featuring the common folk of this world (regardless of if they're being helped or hurt and who by) would add narrative and moral weight to the quest without sacrificing simulationism. However, it would sacrifice player agency in setting interlude focus and would probably be a lot more spoon heavy for the QMs, which is especially problematic because interludes are generally for when the QMs are low on spoons.
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- Location
- Yes.
The amount of discussion is insane and spread out over several updates. I would recommend starting here and ending here. Incidentally those two chapters are some of the bigger IC discussions, and there was mention of Leaf being far better than Mist in the former.
Yes, the chapter was retcon'd; despite that, I see no reason why this info shouldn't be valid.
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- USA
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- He/Him
Ah, I see.
Well, I don't know what to tell you. Death of the author is not a thing the author can control.
As to being offended... I'd say "annoyed". Probably part of that is the whole mess with one of the mods recently coming into the Discord and asserting that people were lying when they said the thread ran on simulationism instead of narrative.
EJ's journal, entry #475,831:
After ascending to my rightful throne, have my Legions of Terror track Noumero down and repeatedly thwap him with a herring.
Were they? They had the virtue of altruism (they wanted to save the world), the virtue of non-violence (albeit tempered with pragmatism), the virtue of egalitarianism (they were including civilians in their efforts), and the virtue of respect for learning (they did a ton of research instead of simply conquering everyone; also, there really needs to be a word in English that means "respect for learning".)
At least, you could make that case. That's the other problem I have with virtue ethics: There's no way to see inside someone's heart, so there's no way to determine if they actually have these virtues or if one is misascribing those virtues based on generously interpreting the person's actions.
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
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- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
Well, since there was some talk about interludes showing us more suffering...
[×] (Interlude) - Ninja Bird torments the simple peasant Romero
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- UK
Sorry to hear that. For whatever its worth, I'm not asking you to resurrect the author, this was just something I spotted and the part of me that wants everyone to have perfectly calibrated world models at all times forced me to point it out. This was all biased by @No-one of Importance defending a minority view that I share (with caveats; whereas he bemoans consequentialism, I bemoan the players).
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Just to check, have you run into the phrase "death of the author"? It is a term of art in literary circles and means that the author's intention for meaning is no more valid an interpretation than the opinion of any given reader.
JulieK
Unintentionally funny
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- Israel
According to this post Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
Leaf's entire military budget is 600 million Ryo
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- UK
Yes, though my understanding is closer to TVTropes' "an author's intentions and biographical facts (the author's politics, religion, etc) should hold no special weight in determining an interpretation of their writing", which is more about how readers should interpret text than about which interpretation should be canonical.
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- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yep.
Oh, note that I fail reading forever. Looks like the Hokage's salary is in fact ~105M ryō, not 150M as I previously stated.
JulieK
Unintentionally funny
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- Israel
Dear sir
My name is Mr Akiyama Riku I was private secretary to FOURTH HOKAGE Namikaze Minato.
Hokage Namikaze left a private bank account containing R300M (Three Hundred Million Ryo) which according to Leaf laws is now ownerless because no one has claimed it in 13 year.
If you can assist in transferring this sum to your bank account in another hidden village I will be grateful.