Another suggestion: "Is Hazou on the same page with us?" Consider his reaction to Hinata's lack of support for Jiraiya, or his lack of knowledge about our plans for R2, which partially caused this recent embarrassment with Shikamaru. I'm sure there are other examples too.

Eh, I think this is more of a feature of the quest format, rather than a problem. Hazou's personality is what it is, and him being unaware of everything we talk about hasn't been an issue thus far. And it's not like we can really help it. What do you propose, voting for Hazou to simply think about whatever long term plan we cook up? That's even worse than the annoying "discuss among ourselves" sections.

I'm not sure what you mean by "embarassment", given that Hazou has one largely irrelevant line in the whole chapter. The reason for that, to my best understanding, is that the purpose of that chapter was for Shikamaru to explain his plan, and everything else is window dressing to make that explanation flow better. I don't like that chapter, but I don't think the events described in it are in any way a result of some failing of ours.
 
"Just because they could be after you, doesn't mean they are."?



Eh, nobody is going to convince me that Shikaku wasn't trying to keep Hazou off-balance during that conversation. There isn't any other reasonable explanation for him pretending to take notes, even if you take the most generous interpretation of everything else he did. The truth of it is probably somewhere in the middle - Shikaku acted as if Hazou could keep up because that's how he prefers to interact with people, while also appreciating the advantage it gave him.
I'm still a little bit miffed that Shikaku assumed we'd have to solve the chakra diffusion problem to have a defense against Skywalkers. After all, our most concrete and viable defense idea to date is using 5SB on the roofs of important buildings, a completely different tack from what Shikaku was picturing. I personally see Shikaku's conversation there as closer to 'keeping Hazou off-balance' than just 'you can keep up with me', because I believe Shikaku wouldn't have discarded the possibility that Hazou also had some miracle static defense otherwise.

Still, not much came out of that trick that wouldn't have already been apparent from Shikaku's performance in the rest of the conversation, so I'm only a little miffed on the principle of the matter, not because I feel like we were wronged or anything.
 
Eh, I think this is more of a feature of the quest format, rather than a problem. Hazou's personality is what it is, and him being unaware of everything we talk about hasn't been an issue thus far. And it's not like we can really help it. What do you propose, voting for Hazou to simply think about whatever long term plan we cook up? That's even worse than the annoying "discuss among ourselves" sections.

I'm not sure what you mean by "embarassment", given that Hazou has one largely irrelevant line in the whole chapter. The reason for that, to my best understanding, is that the purpose of that chapter was for Shikamaru to explain his plan, and everything else is window dressing to make that explanation flow better. I don't like that chapter, but I don't think the events described in it are in any way a result of some failing of ours.
It's not our failure as such, but... it's responsible for the dynamic displayed in that chapter. Hazou was portrayed as a short-term thinker, with no idea how to win R2, to contrast Shikamaru who already thought so very far ahead. But we-the-hivemind had plans for R2, even if they weren't aligned with Shikamaru's. If Hazou was aware of them, it would've been closer to a negotiation instead of a condescending lecture, we would've been in a better position to re-negotiate or modify Shikamaru's plan, etc.

I'm not sure what to do about it. Add an optional section to each plan, with a short summary of our discussions/future plans/attitudes? Very informal and loose. I recall something similar was already attempted; "Non-Binding Suggestions", I think it was called? @faflec, do you remember that? If yes, could you link it?
 
It's not our failure as such, but... it's responsible for the dynamic displayed in that chapter. Hazou was portrayed as a short-term thinker, with no idea how to win R2, to contrast Shikamaru who already thought so very far ahead. But we-the-hivemind had plans for R2, even if they weren't aligned with Shikamaru's. If Hazou was aware of them, it would've been closer to a negotiation instead of a condescending lecture, we would've been in a better position to re-negotiate or modify Shikamaru's plan, etc.

I'm not sure what to do about it. Add an optional section to each plan, with a short summary of our discussions/future plans/attitudes? Very informal and loose. I recall something similar was already attempted; "Non-Binding Suggestions", I think it was called? @faflec, do you remember that? If yes, could you link it?
We did have a list of non-binding suggestions, but it was added in manually to each plan.
 
We did have a list of non-binding suggestions, but it was added in manually to each plan.
That's what I'm suggesting, yes. Write short, high-level summaries of all our relevant discussions which happened during plan-making period. Put links to them in all plans.

Maybe that's too much work to solve a minor issue, granted.
 
I don't really care to have Hazō portrayed as a chessmaster?
I'm not sure I'd want him as a Machiavellian schemer either, but I don't want him to look like a dunce. I want him to occupy a nice middle-ground where he's known to be a competent schemer but is by default honest and non-manipulative unless he has a good reason to scheme.
 
I don't really care to have Hazō portrayed as a chessmaster?
No but if we are expending significant effort to think about Thing B while we vote in a plan that handles Thing A, and Thing B needs to be taken care of afterwards...

It would not be to our detriment to throw in some token ideas( line or two) about Thing B on the off chance it is useful.

In this instance, it just cost Hazou some embarassment. As a whole, this is a part of the "Discrete-Time Update Problem" that we have as the Hivemind. We cannot continuously update Hazou with our plans and info (or at least, we can't do updates breaks whenever we feel like it) so he is potentially going to be without secondary info that we haven't explicitly voted into a plan.
 
I mean, as we were informed by Jiraiya, it's also indicative that he respects us. As we saw during the clan council meeting, he was perfectly willing to dumb things down for those less quick-witted, if a bit annoyed to do so.

It sure is quite convenient that Nara have a well known rhetorical tool that they can use to flatter or insult people with, all without being too direct about it or fearing repercussions. Do keep in mind that someone like Shikaku is perfectly capable of dumbing things down even for an audience who would be able to keep up just to insult them (Shikamaru did the same with Neji during the exams).

Point being: Him jumping ahead does not mean he didn't do it to mess with us. He could be doing that and play a level higher because superficially "everyone knows" that this a sign of respect given by Nara so the stealth insult might have slipped under the radar.

Do I think he did it only to mess with us? Probably not, but I think it was a very convenient and intended side effect.
 
Also, two of the QM's have hugged my STR compositon post. Leads me to believe I am incorrect about something (or they are sympathetic towards my prayers to RNJashin).

...

We're somehow fighting fucking Hotsprings in Round 2 as our assigned Red Team aren't we? The irony....
 
The mol question started bugging me today, so I decided to run numbers on it.

Molecular mass of air is ~29 g/mol.
SSL air density is ~1.225 kg/m^3

Therefore, under SSL assumption, 42.24 mol/m^3 air.

The implosion seal grabs a 20 m radius sphere of air. There are two general use cases: air burst above 20 m, and surface burst. The demonstrated forest clearing was accomplished by a surface burst, so it only grabbed a 20m hemisphere of air.

Vol_in_airburst = 4/3 * pi * 20^3 = 33510 m^3
Vol_in_surfaceburst = 33510/2 = 16755 m^3

The first volume matches well with the original estimate, and the 42.14 correction is close to the rounded correction that was used above. However, unless the implosion seals got launched 20 m in the air above ground zero, we actually need to run this with a hemispherical air capture.

Using the telephone pole snapping analogy tells us 175 kg of TNT will snap all trees within a 15 m radius. Use this, along with the number of molecules in a 20m hemisphere of air, and return to the trusty Volume Compression formula...

Vf = 16755 * e^(-7.32e8 / (42.24*16755*8.3144598 *293)) = 10959 m^3
This Vf is also a hemisphere, so the spherical volume would be 21918 m^3

Rf = (Vf*3/(4*pi))^(1/3) = 17.4 m

I am not a 100% sure that trees that are already within the sphere of effect would be snapped, as they wouldn't have the load imbalance from an impinging/reflecting shock on one side and standard atmosphere on the other.
@OliWhail
I'd be willing to calculate what intake volume would be required for a 1-2 m (I suspect somewhere on the order of 3-8 m) release radius that also yields a 175 kg TNT equivalent detonation, as I'm reasonably sure that would look more like a 1-zone of effect lung-burst attack coupled with the multiple-zone effect explosion.
Id probably model it as something like (2 x roll successes) to dodge and Weapon: 8 in the local zone, with regular dodge against Weapon 8-2 per zone radial to the initial zone for other zones - so it acts a substantial explosive out to 4 zones radius. (for one implosion seal. stacked is a whole-nother ballpark)

Meh, it was relatively easy to come up with. In the spoilered code, just modify Ri until Rf is the value you want.
import numpy as np

Ri = 9.1
Vi = 4/3*np.pi * Ri**3 / 2
n = Vi *42.24 # mol
R = 8.3144598 # J/mol-K
T = 293 # K
W = -7.32e8 # 175 kg TNT assumption
Vf = Vi * np.exp(W/(n*R*T))
Rf = (Vf*2*3/(4*np.pi))**(1/3)

My quick calculations tell me (for a 175 kg charge equivalent)
Ri = 9.1 m …… Rf ~ 2 m
Ri = 8.2 m …… Rf ~ 1 m
Ri = 7.5 m …… Rf ~.5 m
 
Lets collapse the building preemptively on our heads just to deny them their revenge.

WE SHOULD HAVE HAD HAZOU CHECK THE LOCKBOX TRAPS.

If the trap was similar to something in our arsenal, we totally could've trapped the lockbox and just waited for some idiot to open it and get ker-sploded. Ruthlessness be damned.

Oh well.
 
WE SHOULD HAVE HAD HAZOU CHECK THE LOCKBOX TRAPS.

If the trap was similar to something in our arsenal, we totally could've trapped the lockbox and just waited for some idiot to open it and get ker-sploded. Ruthlessness be damned.

Oh well.
Clarification: You want us to try to kill someone and get away with using the lockbox?
 
Consider the states of mind that would make the above likely: An EJ is spending inordinate effort into debating you in the hopes you do not accidentally uncover an actual IC conspiracy (or otherwise tricking you that its not real by making you think we are in scenario II of this paragraph) or an EJ is sufficiently frustrated with said paranoia about an invalid conspiracy theory that he is taking time to debate about its validity.

I think the second is more likely. He's a busy guy, and thats a lot of effort for some 2-3rd level rocks-paper-scissors trickery if it was real.
Oy! I can be manipulative and scheming if I want to! Maybe that was all some very carefully-worded second-level deception intended to disguise the fact that Jiraiya totally snuck out and killed Minami, leaving a Shadow Clone behind to conceal his absence! Didn't think of that, now did you?

Hrmph.

Also, two of the QM's have hugged my STR compositon post. Leads me to believe I am incorrect about something (or they are sympathetic towards my prayers to RNJashin).

...

We're somehow fighting fucking Hotsprings in Round 2 as our assigned Red Team aren't we? The irony....
Note that I typically use Hug marks to mean either "thank you" or "sympathy".
 
Clarification: You want us to try to kill someone and get away with using the lockbox?

We want to hit them over the head with the lockbox.

Failed attempts to open the box without the key will maim but probably not kill the incompetent who tried it. Your Kage have been advised of this risk and all signed off on it, so if anyone gets their fool ass killed it's on them.

Enemy genin trying to open the lockbox by ramming their heads against it and subsequently dying is covered by this clause.
 
Oy! I can be manipulative and scheming if I want to! Maybe that was all some very carefully-worded second-level deception intended to disguise the fact that Jiraiya totally snuck out and killed Minami, leaving a Shadow Clone behind to conceal his absence! Didn't think of that, now did you?

Hrmph.
Ah, right. That's a big oversight on my part, not thinking of that scenario.

Guess we should never bring this up again, because he'll certainly not react well. Can't even have Hazou think it. Not even subconsciously, nope.
Note that I typically use Hug marks to mean either "thank you" or "sympathy".
That was half a joke. I don't actually expect y'all to have arranged things in such a matter. Good to know.

@eaglejarl How's the progression in the update?
Someones eager to be done with this event, I see.

We're voting in a pile of plans for the time in between the battle's end and the event's end, didn't you hear?

Why wouldn't it still be murder?
How can you ... uh.. kill that which...um... can never die?
 
How can you ... uh.. kill that which...um... can never die?

TͮH̓ATͯ̃̉ͧ͗ Ỉ̆̏ͯ̈́S̑̄ͨ ̒ͫ̚N͗ͥ̆ͬO̓T D̃̔̉ͦE͛͋̉̽Aͮ̈́̊͆̄̈Ḋ̇ͩ̓͂ ̎W̓͑͑̿Ȟ̔I̅̌̀ͧCHͮ͆ ͦͮ̇̌C̓͐ͨ̉ͭ̔AͬN̔ E͆̓͋̉ͮͥTEŔ̂̽̽͂̔̊NAL̉̓ͦ ͑̆̅͌̏̔̚Lͦ̀̆̈ͦI̓̒̀E͂
̽ͩ̄ͨ̈́
͑̈́ͤ̎̾ͭͦANͫ̊̽͐Dͦͬ̓̽ ̓̐͌W̍̑̾̐̆̃ITͭ̓͑̔̒H ͐ͨ͒̉ͧ͒S̋͗TR̊̉̔̆A̋Ň̽͌ͫ̋́͆GͬE ͛ͦA͆ͥ͒̉̀ͥE͂͐ͫ͗OÑ̑̑̐ͪ̐S̎ ̍̄ͯ͑̎̾E͌̍̔̎̋͒̚Vͭ́̽Eͪͯ̃́ͨͩN̆͗ ̃ͫͩ̉̏͗D͑̒̃̊E͊̔ͬ̓ͬA̎͌̒ͨ͆͑T̋̅͂ͮ̒̏H̀̏̄̒ ̆͗͌̽̃̀̚M̆̔ͧ̈Aͮ̽̽Yͭ͊͌̿̈̆̽ ͦ͛̈́̅ͬD̍̽ͩͩIͩͬ̈́͋̇̋E̊
 
TͮH̓ATͯ̃̉ͧ͗ Ỉ̆̏ͯ̈́S̑̄ͨ ̒ͫ̚N͗ͥ̆ͬO̓T D̃̔̉ͦE͛͋̉̽Aͮ̈́̊͆̄̈Ḋ̇ͩ̓͂ ̎W̓͑͑̿Ȟ̔I̅̌̀ͧCHͮ͆ ͦͮ̇̌C̓͐ͨ̉ͭ̔AͬN̔ E͆̓͋̉ͮͥTEŔ̂̽̽͂̔̊NAL̉̓ͦ ͑̆̅͌̏̔̚Lͦ̀̆̈ͦI̓̒̀E͂
̽ͩ̄ͨ̈́
͑̈́ͤ̎̾ͭͦANͫ̊̽͐Dͦͬ̓̽ ̓̐͌W̍̑̾̐̆̃ITͭ̓͑̔̒H ͐ͨ͒̉ͧ͒S̋͗TR̊̉̔̆A̋Ň̽͌ͫ̋́͆GͬE ͛ͦA͆ͥ͒̉̀ͥE͂͐ͫ͗OÑ̑̑̐ͪ̐S̎ ̍̄ͯ͑̎̾E͌̍̔̎̋͒̚Vͭ́̽Eͪͯ̃́ͨͩN̆͗ ̃ͫͩ̉̏͗D͑̒̃̊E͊̔ͬ̓ͬA̎͌̒ͨ͆͑T̋̅͂ͮ̒̏H̀̏̄̒ ̆͗͌̽̃̀̚M̆̔ͧ̈Aͮ̽̽Yͭ͊͌̿̈̆̽ ͦ͛̈́̅ͬD̍̽ͩͩIͩͬ̈́͋̇̋E̊
Green would be a better color. :whistle:
 
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