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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Velorien said:
"Unless and until she has a child of her own, Gōketsu Hazō has the purest Kurosawa blood, and if Hana hadn't made him turn down our invitation, he'd have been next in line to rule the clan. Instead, things get complicated."

"You sure you should be spilling the beans like this, Shin? This sounds like some serious shit."
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This also sounds like Shin and his team aren't the ones that tried to kill us, unless I am vastly misjudging his character.

But lets not let that stop us from keeping up the meme where every bad thing that happens to us, every proctor that talks to us and every piece of furniture is actually (henged) Shin.
 
Tua said:
This also sounds like Shin and his team aren't the ones that tried to kill us, unless I am vastly misjudging his character.

But lets not let that stop us from keeping up the meme where every bad thing that happens to us, every proctor that talks to us and every piece of furniture is actually (henged) Shin.
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From the same chapter:
Velorien said:
"Chill, Spider-girl. If it comes down to you facing off with your ex, Shin and I have your back all the way. Let him do his diplomacy shtick for a while, and once he's had enough we can crush Team Gōketsu like the dishonourable bastards they are. Bam! Closure for your childhood trauma, victory in the exams and massive brownie points with you-know-who all in one go."
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faflec said:
From the same chapter:
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Well yes. He also said as much to our face in the barracks but that doesn't mean he is behind everything bad that happens to us or that he tried to kill us. Though, like I said, it's going to make for a fun running gag anyway, especially once Shin learns how to induce sealing failures remotely.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
There really isn't much precedent for the Kage hat sitting on the same clan across generations, and I don't think the other clans would want to establish a precedent where some other clan gets absolute power forever. In fact, I think it would be harder for Ren's heir within the Kurosawa to become the next Mizukage, simply because of pushback against the office of Mizukage becoming a dynasty.

I don't think that the Kurosawa expect to be able to secure the hat for a second generation in a row, not with people like Ami to contend with.
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Well in Leaf all 5 Kages have been from the Senju clan or directly trained by them. So there is an unbroken line there. In Cloud we have A who is the son of the third kage there. In Sand have Gaara and his Dad form a line there. While In Stone we have Onoki who was trained by the Second Tsuchikage

So while not a guaranteed occurrence it happens fairly often
 
Oneiros said:
That's an interesting idea. Any idea about how we could pull it of?
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It's not really a complete idea yet, no. We could start with Hana though. She'd be the most willing to make the jump. Other than Hana and Ren, do we know any other Kurosawa? It'd depend on convincing them one by one that Leaf is a better option than Mist until you develop a critical mass that can shift the whole clan. Avoiding Mist's internal power struggle might be one lever we could use though, as well as providing a way in Hazō to avoid an internal clan power struggle over who will head the clan eventually.

Unrelatedly, does anybody know why Ami did the thing she did to Keiko, manipulating her? I don't follow the reasoning there.
 
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Tua said:
Well yes. He also said as much to our face in the barracks but that doesn't mean he is behind everything bad that happens to us or that he tried to kill us. Though, like I said, it's going to make for a fun running gag anyway, especially once Shin learns how to induce sealing failures remotely.
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Nobody tried to kill us. The hypothetical Shin in the Fourth Event had us dead to rights; if they wanted us dead we'd be dead. As for Team Downfall, barring sudden other Wakahisa in the Exams I'm going to assume it's the one on Shin's team.
 
Oneiros said:
Well in Leaf all 5 Kages have been from the Senju clan or directly trained by them. So there is an unbroken line there. In Cloud we have A who is the son of the third kage there. In Sand have Gaara and his Dad form a line there. While In Stone we have Onoki who was trained by the Second Tsuchikage

So while not a guaranteed occurrence it happens fairly often
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The Senju clan only ruled for two Kage, and they were brothers instead of parent/child. I don't think 'trained by' carries anywhere near the same sort of dynastic connotations. You're right in that two of the five major villages have had one Kage that was a direct descendant of another Kage, but I think 'rarely' better describes the phenomenon.

Either way though, it does not have precedent within Mist and clans have vested interests in keeping things that way, so that their kids might have a shot at the hat.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
It's not really a complete idea yet, no. We could start with Hana though. She'd be the most willing to make the jump. Other than Hana and Ren, do we know any other Kurosawa? It'd depend on convincing them one by one that Leaf is a better option than Mist until you develop a critical mass that can shift the whole clan.

Unrelatedly, does anybody know why Ami did the thing she did to Keiko, manipulating her? I don't follow the reasoning there.
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Velorien said:
Their time was up. Keiko couldn't afford a connection with the Mori, much less a vulnerable emotional one. Not until she assumed her full power within the Nara Clan and decided for herself what to do with it. Right now, Ami knew five different people on the Mori side alone who would exploit Keiko ruthlessly in order to shift the balance of power between the two clans.
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Basically Ami knew that Keiko's connection to her would be exploited by the Mori clan for their own ends, and Ami did not want that. So Ami immediately drew Keiko in close enough for them to meet, then pushed her into a position where she could reject her and keep Keiko from wanting to seek Ami out.
 
faflec said:
Basically Ami knew that Keiko's connection to her would be exploited by the Mori clan for their own ends, and Ami did not want that. So Ami immediately drew Keiko in close enough for them to meet, then pushed her into a position where she could reject her and keep Keiko from wanting to seek Ami out.
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Ah, I see. That's...awful. There must be some way Keiko can be with Ami without being made into a pawn by the other Mori.

Edit: Guess we have to adopt Ami now.
 
faflec said:
This is where I think we disagree. Ren has significant incentives to keep Hazou not-dead. This does NOT mean that she is going to keep him happy. Or supported. Or anything beyond a political pawn to extract concessions from Jiraiya.
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Hazou's value to Ren doesn't lie in extracting concessions from Jiraiya. Ren's position as Mizukage is very uncertain, and being able to establish an alliance with Leaf backed by blood ties between her and the Hokage's clan would solidify it significantly - it is, after all, something only she can do.

Technically, all she needs is for Hazou to be alive for this to work, but she can't afford to alienate him too much either. If anything, her intent to send Hana to Leaf is difficult to read as anything but a gesture of good will towards Hazou. And her plan may be to play nice with us in order to soften Jiraiya's stance in the negotiations. That it helps her sister and nephew whom she feels she has wronged is not an insignificant factor either, I reckon.

This makes Hazou something more significant than a pawn. As far as Ren is concerned, he has influence on the Hokage - which is strictly true, as Jiraiya at minimum has promised to extract Hana if he is able. This influence is political capital we are free to spend. We should spend it for maximum effect.
 
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faflec said:
Nobody tried to kill us. The hypothetical Shin in the Fourth Event had us dead to rights; if they wanted us dead we'd be dead. As for Team Downfall, barring sudden other Wakahisa in the Exams I'm going to assume it's the one on Shin's team.
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For clarity, there are other Wakahisa in the Exams. Keiko will have noted this during the post-tunnel "debrief".
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Ah, I see. That's...awful. There must be some way Keiko can be with Ami without being made into a pawn by the other Mori.

Edit: Guess we have to adopt Ami now.
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Personally Ami is completely wrong about Kei. Kei is a terrifying young woman who would break anyone in the Mori clan who would try to manipulate her
 
Oneiros said:
Personally Ami is completely wrong about Kei. Kei is a terrifying young woman who would break anyone in the Mori clan who would try to manipulate her
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Except Ami, which is what's so tragic.

Bad Ami, you don't get to push away your sister because you think it's the only way to keep her safe. She's safest with the two of you working together, you dummy.
 
Oneiros said:
Personally Ami is completely wrong about Kei. Kei is a terrifying young woman who would break anyone in the Mori clan who would try to manipulate her
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I'd give it even odds, actually. Keiko's got a lot of steel in her that Ami doesn't know about, but the Mori are an old wound of Keiko's and I could see her get beaten down by them as easily as I can see her standing up to them.

If Ami had shown Keiko support, though, she'd totally be able to stand up to them, so Ami still misjudged Keiko, I think.
 
...You know what we should do? We should prepare an Aspect "I know what you're doing" which can be invoked to defend against any attempts at social manipulation against our former clans.
 
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