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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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[X] SOCIAL KOMBAT: Gōketsu Mari vs Nara Shikaku. Fight!
[X] Mari messes with / mentors Nara Shiori. (but I repeat myself)
 
1234qwerty said:
[x] Hazō buys a telescope
[x] a meeting of the merchant council
[x] last telescope salesman in konoha goes out of business
[x] an unfortunate travelling telescope salesman arriving everywhere we've been just after we leave
[x] Hazou henges into a horse's corpse
-[X] Someone beats Hazou over the head with a telescope


I think my method looks like yours but without step 3. The first seal is arbitrarily placed because it's unusual for exact wall position to matter, then the second seal only has to match the first. This might create some challenges if the ground level doesn't match, but I'd think digging a whole or stacking some dirt would trivially solve the problem. It's possible that ground compression would be a problem, but that's beyond me. Everything else comes from the stated 1 minute set up time.

Let me see if I understand -- sorry if I misrepresent your view. You expect 0.5 degree accuracy to be the best accuracy ninja can achieve regardless of prep time? If so, I disagree. I think millimeter accuracy at least is possible with mundane tools. If the seal worked as I hypothesized, accuracy would be limited by how fast a ninja could iterate through all possible combinations of angle and position -- holding all but one variable steady at a time -- while within the initial search space. In this case, time would be an important variable; I tried to do the math but gave up, and it's possible 1 minute wouldn't be enough time. Changing tracks, we don't necessarily need to do a mathematical analysis of similar rigor in character; bamboo should be common and is a pretty good wood for this application and I think it should be trivial to try making a pole of adequate width with that.

Good news(if this is allowed, don't know much about which shapes are acceptable, just going by the same equation as last time). New force wall numbers for millimeter tolerance:
  1. For a right triangle with sides 4m and 0.001m, the corresponding angle is arctan(0.001/4) = 0.00025 radians.
  2. Using Ash wood as before, [4*20*710*8/(arctan(0.001/4)*12310000000)]^0.5 = 0.384m as the base length of the pole.
  3. Such a pole would weigh 0.384*0.005*4*710 = 5.45kg. A very manageable weight. Hopefully, a pole 0.384m by 0.005m by 4m isn't too ridiculous.
[(4*2*10*8*710/(12310000000*0.0001745329))^.5] = 0.46m base length. [(4*2*10*8*710/(12310000000*0.0001745329))^.5]*.005*4*710 = 6.53kg weight pole.

Possible name inspiration for the new device. Geta is the name of Jiraiya's Japanese style sandals in canon. Force walls will look like these if they have thin, long support bars. The ones on the right in the picture look the most similar, but the ratio is off.

Not sure about the feasibility of this proposal but figured I'd mention it. What if instead of using a pole, each seal were aligned by clamping it to the force wall itself after activation? Force walls have friction, so clamping should still work. Shorter beams should mean a much smaller achievable angle of deflection. Could use 5SB somehow if we have to to avoid moving the seals during clamping. Not sure if you know, but there's a bit of distance between the seals and the force wall, something on the order of an inch.

Lastly, some miscellaneous thoughts: to prevent opponents from discerning how force walls function, obscure the shape of the pole so otherwise identical movements don't look identical(mostly so they mistake which side of the force wall they're standing on for purposes of targeting the seals). Of course, use 'black seals' so it's not clear this is even a seal based weapon, or add fake seals in other places to be mistakenly targeted. Force walls are invisible so lasers/light based attacks will work through them. This is something we could potentially use to our advantage later. Also good as invisible barriers in bad sight conditions to be slammed into at ninja speeds, which might be good to add to our fort.
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You have to have first seal be pointed at the center of mass of the second seal with 0.25 degree accuracy and second seal be pointed at the center of mass of the first seal with 0.25 degree accuracy. You can maybe achieve second with your method, provided you get the first to work. How do you achieve the first?

Furthermore, you have to have the seals alligned to face one another in both azimuthal and inclination angles, with the same precision. Suppose I'll grant that you can maybe get the azimuthal angle sorted out with ropes or some such, if you can get a seal to be perpendicular to the rope you use for direction with 0.25 degree accuracy, which I don't think you can. Look at my pictures in the paper and see if you can tell me when lines stop being perpendicular to the border of the picture, and then same arguments as for being parallel apply. How do you fix the inclination angle? It has to be equal to the slope angle of the earth in the place where you are placing the seals with same 0.25 degree accuracy.

>Hopefully, a pole 0.384m by 0.005m by 4m isn't too ridiculous.
Pole has to have same thickness in both directions, otherwise it'd just deform in the less thick direction. If you need 38 centimeters to prevent deflection, then you need it to be 38 cm thick and wide. I have skipped your math on this in the previous post, but I assume it's equally mistaken?

Lastly, if you clamp the seals to the force wall you get reactionless thrusters, which are a mess not worth going into unless specifically going for that.
 
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1234qwerty said:
Maybe I'm modelling the problem incorrectly, but in my head it collapses to aligning one seal to some other immobile one. Imagine an invisible laser pointer and a photon detector. Once the laser pointer successfully hits the photon detector, a loud chime goes off. I don't see why it would be impossible to align them by only moving one, even if the photon detector required the laser to be exactly 4m away and the laser's beam didn't spread into a cone with distance. Then it's a matter of wiggling the laser until you hear the chime, except with force wall seals and some hypothetical mechanism for persistent alignment detection. Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.
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You have two laser beams and two photon detectors, and chime only goes off when both hit their respective photon detectors. If seal 1 isn't alligned to face exactly the position where you put seal 2, no rotation of seal 2 will produce a wall.

1234qwerty said:
Gah, I strongly suspected this but was thrown off by the equations having a separate variable for rectangular height and width. I'll have to read more carefully next time. To make up for it, I'll try to figure out what kind of dimensions I beams necessitate, as well as going back and fixing the math in the old posts when I'm less tired. Suffice to say, 76x the previously calculated weight would be less than optimal.
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S'alright. I had separate variables there because strictly speaking cross-section doesn't have to be rectangular, and you might want it to be larger in the vertical direction than in the horisontal one for some applications.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Velorien on Dec 6, 2017 at 12:21 PM, finished with 75621 posts and 10 votes.
  • 19
    [x] a meeting of the merchant council
    [x] Hazō buys a telescope
    [X] Mari messes with / mentors Nara Shiori. (but I repeat myself)
    [X] SOCIAL KOMBAT: Gōketsu Mari vs Nara Shikaku. Fight!
    [x] an unfortunate travelling telescope salesman arriving everywhere we've been just after we leave
    [X] Keiko and Shikamaru talk about the Nara-Yamanaka-Akimichi bloodlines/connection
    [x] last telescope salesman in konoha goes out of business
    [X] The Third Hokage, moments before the battle with Akatsuki.
    [X] Sakura,Akane and Haru exchange information about the ninja clans they know
    [X] Someone beats Hazou over the head with a telescope
    [x] Someone beats Hazou over the head with an explosive telescope
    [X] Zabuza tells Yukino what ninja he hunted down from Mist and other villages
    [X] War stories part 2, Jiraiya and the Jonin share information on the clans/villages they fought over the years
    [x] Hazou henges into a horse's corpse
    -[X] Someone beats Hazou over the head with a telescope
    [X] Hazou asks Jiraiya about the Sarutobi clan
    [x] The telescope beats Hazō with someone.
    [x] Someone beats a telescope with Hazou
Click to expand...
 
Oh lord, we're in the pre-update shitposting phase. Well, at least nothing's changed since before The Incident.
 
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