- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
*embarrassed shrug* In fairness, there wasn't a lot of other conversation going on. Besides, Jello started it.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I'm amused by it
e: Frankly, I've missed the player-QM banter that used to happen all the time
Last edited:
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
It's not about investment, it's about time learning the quicks and non-obvious bits of the language. A samart person will get there faster than a stupid person, but it'll still take time. Racket gets you farther with less time, but you hit a point of diminishing returns. Haskell has a way of turning parts of systems are are usually non-orthogonal into orthogonal composable components that takes time and practice to get used to, and the structure of the type system supports that process in a way that is hard to emulate in most other languages. Also optimization Haskell is black magic because laziness, while incredibly useful, does weird things to performance and memory use.
Haskell is not a perfect language, and it has a lot of style/design pattern/historical cruft to learn. I'd rather it didn't but my contention is that it's worth it for tasks where you need really complex non-timing guarantees to hold across lots of complex operations. Things like interpreters and compilers.
As for the latter, the only place where I've heard people go "Racket is exceptionally good at X" is developing languages and DSLs.
- Location
- CENTRAL US
I've gotta say, the programming debate is fun to watch. A bit disheartening from someone who washed out of their CS program after barely learning enough C++ to compile anything, but fascinating nonetheless.
Also what would a sealing Segfault look like? More tentacles?
Also what would a sealing Segfault look like? More tentacles?
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So it has unpredictable (a polite term for 'bad') performance and memory usage, is difficult to optimize, is difficult to learn, has lots of style/design pattern/historical issues, and is good mostly for low-level toolchain projects that don't actually solve first-order problems. Sign me up!
In seriousness: most of the discussion at (seventh RacketCon) was about type systems, and all of the other people there were worthy of respect so I've been getting interested. Do you have a recommended source from which to learn Haskell?
- Location
- UK
This assumes they have a memory model under which "segfault" is meaningful. Since its primitives are Lisp primitives, and there is no "dereference arbitrary pointer" operation, that's not going to happen. It's simply not expressible.
It's a trap! Don't fall for it!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hey, I gave the Christians a chance to convince me. (They failed.)
Heleor
^_^
<programming makes me want to poke my head in>
Most of the conversation is not something you'd find out in the earlier parts of a CS education. It requires a certain type (read: insane) mind to dig into the esoterics.
That said, in my current day job I'm writing a Prolog/Lisp/SQL fusion language[1] and we have almost a thousand people writing code in it. Fight me.
[1] Relational, extended lisp syntax, solver based on miniKanren.
Most of the conversation is not something you'd find out in the earlier parts of a CS education. It requires a certain type (read: insane) mind to dig into the esoterics.
That said, in my current day job I'm writing a Prolog/Lisp/SQL fusion language[1] and we have almost a thousand people writing code in it. Fight me.
[1] Relational, extended lisp syntax, solver based on miniKanren.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Hm.
You're in good company for insanityThat said, in my current day job I'm writing a Prolog/Lisp/SQL fusion language[1] and we have almost a thousand people writing code in it. Fight me.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Cool. Daniel Friedman did the keynote at (seventh RacketCon) about miniKanren. Very impressive talk, and I was pleased to find that I understood every word of it. (He enunciates well.)
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You absolutely can!
EDIT: I just realized that you may have meant "Could people please not..." as opposed to "Are we allowed to...." Sorry about that. It's going to be at least one and possibly two more updates worth of omake, but we're trying to get a system nailed down as quickly as possible.
Last edited:
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I understand your preference for more-salient updates, but -- on top of the acquiescence to these votes being optional on the QM's parts -- I feel that omake fulfill the purpose of these systems-exploring updates as well or better than canon ones would. Particularly when -- as indicated by the Team 7 Chuunin Exams one -- they are hardly guaranteed to be canon even if they involve characters in the story.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
You know, from the QM's perspective, I would begin wondering whether when my players wake up, if they think,
"Hm... I wonder how best I can screw with my dear, glorious, ever-generous purveyor of entertainment?"
And then I would weep and reminesce about days in which I could write about simple things, like superintelligent eldritch beings.
Last edited:
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
Unintitive ≠ unpredictable
And yes, though admittedly the community is pretty consistently working through historical issues. It's slow because the community also cares about not breaking things, think 1-2 years or 2-3 major versions between depracation of historical cruft and removal.
And, I didn't say it's mostly good for that, just that it's particularly good at low level toolchain work. Lots of people use it for many things, but my day job is low level toolchain work, so I end up caring about it more. Low level toolchain work is fun.
Personally I think it's hard to learn because we teach strict imperative as the "one true way" for everyone, and that sets up mental habits that need to be broken. Honestly, Haskell seems to be intuitive for people from a maths background so it's not like it's not using a consistent mental model.
That's a bit of an issue, there's a bunch of good resources but opinions vary wildly on quality and usefulness. For each of the major on-ramps you'll find passionate evangelists and detractors. There's a good list at the Haskell wiki, though I particularly fond of Happy Learn Haskell Tutorial for the basics and don't really have an opinion for more complex work. I mostly learned past that point by asking on IRC for pointers.
Edit: though Real World Haskell looks good for more practical use of the language, and the Haskell Road to Logic, Maths, and Programming for the mathy mindset that helps make Haskell anomalously good.
Last edited:
- Location
- Albany
I know I'm a bit late but this has been easily the best chapter in months!
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Yeah, when we let @Velorien go where his foul, blackened heart desires he inevitable produces gems <3
Hell, you'd have my vote!
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In a way, it's reassuring to hear that people haven't given up on waiting for it. It is still in progress, and this month has been a productive month, but a productive month for me is still pretty poor by most writers' standards, so I wouldn't expect it just yet.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
[X] Shining Down the Dimness
e: Also, seconding that I've been waiting on it too. It and 2YE are some of the first r/r fics I read
I certainly haven't noticed that; I sure as heck wouldn't be able to keep up writing an update a week for a long as you have.
e: Also, seconding that I've been waiting on it too. It and 2YE are some of the first r/r fics I read
Last edited:
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The key for me is other people. I wouldn't be able to motivate myself for this (or LUD) independently, but I don't want to let my fellow QMs or our esteemed players down.