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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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faflec said:
Without criticizing the feasibility of the plan itself, I note that you are jumping the gun. We are not in a position to dictate Konoha policy towards other nations even with Skywalker seals; it'll take years to get to the point where we'd have said influence. I'd argue that if you want to try this plan you should propose, or vote for, plans that involve us going to Leaf and building up our political power first, and then work towards ninja UN.

tl;dr One step at a time
Anyway, I had a thought on Keiko's present from us. Thoughts?
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Except with the war about to start, we don't have years and years to gain political power in Leaf. And even if we did it's not certain that we even can gain political power in Leaf since we aren't native born Leaf nor are we from noble Leaf families and they might not ever trust us enough. I say we give this plan to Jiraiya and have him propose it to the Hokage. If the Hokage thinks it has a chance of working he will approve it. Otherwise we'll just come up with another plan.
 
Oneiros43 said:
I'm not worried about the coming war.
See the 34th rule of acquisition
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I just looked it up and I'm not sure I understand. Why exactly aren't you worried about the upcoming great ninja war and what does the 34th rule of acquisition have to do with it?

Also, 34th rule of acquisition sounds kinda like some sort of innuendo for some reason. Maybe we should call it something else.
 
eaglejarl said:
Actually, Ui went off to fight the army of Warlord Sen. As he was leaving he told his apprentice, Jukodo Akio, to take the Pangolin Summoning Scroll to safety in a city on the other side of the mountains; he probably asked the the local blacksmith and his wife (and possibly others?) to go along as responsible adults. Akio and his group made it part of the way to their destination and then, for reasons you never found out, stopped. There weren't a lot of them when they left Ui's house, so they must have brought in more people from the outside at some point in order to go from "a small family" to "a small village." Akio was only partially trained as a ninja, but he was the only source of ninja training available. In the centuries since then the village must have reinvented essentially everything -- taijutsu, ninjutsu, sealing, everything.
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Hidden Mountain (or at least its founders) predates the whole Ninja Village system?

Also Hidden Mountain confirmed to have original styles of ninja techniques. Whether or not they are any good comes down to whatever the QM's decide, but this does open up the opportunity for lucrative technique trade.
 
MadScientist said:
I know we've already spoiled the pacifist run (at least until we get resurrection capabilities and bring back all those people we killed), but I'd rather we don't go full-on mass murder mode. If we're nuking people, it had better be because they're an existential threat.
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Question: Would KEWing (we now have a name for our apocalyptic jutsu) someone be enough to stop WWIV, and would it save more lives in the long run?
Actually, @Velorien, how do Inoue and Keiko respond to the following sentence: "Speaking hypothetically, if I had a way to destroy a single village-sized area and its inhabitants, is there a place we could hit that would stop the next war? Would it save more lives than it ends, if I did?

(@OliWhail and @eaglejarl are also welcome to answer, of course. I just figured Velorien would want dibs. In retrospect, so would Oil.)
 
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Pilot Klingon said:
Except with the war about to start, we don't have years and years to gain political power in Leaf. And even if we did it's not certain that we even can gain political power in Leaf since we aren't native born Leaf nor are we from noble Leaf families and they might not ever trust us enough. I say we give this plan to Jiraiya and have him propose it to the Hokage. If the Hokage thinks it has a chance of working he will approve it. Otherwise we'll just come up with another plan.
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We don't know if or when a ninja world war is going to start.
 
For Keiko's birthday, is there anything like the pendant we gave Mari that we can do? I want to get her something durable that symbolizes her connection to the team.
 
Pilot Klingon said:
Except with the war about to start, we don't have years and years to gain political power in Leaf. And even if we did it's not certain that we even can gain political power in Leaf since we aren't native born Leaf nor are we from noble Leaf families and they might not ever trust us enough. I say we give this plan to Jiraiya and have him propose it to the Hokage. If the Hokage thinks it has a chance of working he will approve it. Otherwise we'll just come up with another plan.
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That's...Ok, maybe my written point was a bit different from my actual point. I was trying to tell you that a single massive plan like this is a bad idea (i.e., we give plan to Inoue-sensei, then Jiraiya, and then make the UN). What I wanted to suggest was that we should give the plan to Inoue-sensei and get her thoughts, and end the update. Shorter plans get us more XP, and MfD doesn't follow the same rules with regards to time.

With that being said, having looked at the plan this won't work at all.
  • Treaties to the extent of "don't attack our civilians" already exist between all the nations, yet scorch squads still exist.
    • Scorch squads are deniable assets. If ninja from Village A are caught killing civilians from Village B, Village A will claim these ninja are missing-nin.
    • It's only when a large scorch squad encounters a ninja patrol that wars start. Because the two groups would fight, and ninjas would die. Retaliation would happen. Things escalate. War.
  • Ninjas helping civilians from foreign countries (i.e., who give their food/resources to foreign ninjas) will not benefit Leaf. This will be veto'd completely.
    • I know you're gonna say "But they'll be incentivized to go to Leaf!". See below.
  • Civilians have no way of traveling hundreds or even maybe thousands of miles just to resettle in the Land of Fire (see map in my sig).
    • Problems:
      • They have to abandon their homes, cultures, and ways of life.
      • They have to survive chakra monsters, bandits, and their country's ninjas pretending to be bandits (see below).
      • They have to find a good place to settle.
      • They have to compete with other settlers/native Leaf citizens for good spots to settle.
      • They have to rebuild everything and adapt to a new culture/way of life.
      • And all that for a (maybe) better future.
    • There's no way we, the missing-nin supporting Jiraiya, can help with this.
      • There's too few of us. Jiraiya doesn't have a ninja army at his beck and call.
      • His spy network doesn't focus on small towns. Why would backwater town #129 in the Land of Waterfalls matter?
    • Leaf could do the trick...but all hell would break loose.
      • Leaf has fewer ninjas in its borders. Secret coalition of enemy villages group up and vaporize Leaf. Skywalker seals won't save Konoha from being razed.
      • Leaf doesn't have the right to run rampant over other country's borders to do things other countries don't want them to do. That's a declaration of war.
  • Nobody is going to know if the Land of ABC kills its own traitorous civilians.
    • Competent ninjas are stealthy as hell. How is Jiraiya's spy network going to know that Random Village #35 was killed by its own country's leadership, and not...well...killed by wildlife/bandits while traveling to Fire?
    • International communications are word-of-mouth. It took weeks for word of our Hot Springs attack to reach Sound (see: Inoue talking to merchant leaving Sarubetsu). It'll take months for international communication to spread the word of how Former Village #205 was destroyed, and that's not taking into account the "how do you know ninjas did it?" problem.
  • Foreign non-Leaf ninjas going to Leaf? Nope.
    • Everyone will immediately declare war.
      • Missing-nin are universally reviled. There is a "unofficial" agreement that no country accepts missing-nin (which everyone breaks). Leaf and co. making it official...will be bad.
    • Other villages will spread counter-propoganda along the lines of "Leaf is talking out of their asses".
      • I don't think you've realized this, but ninjas are brainwashed from childhood to believe in their Kage.
    • Any ninjas that actually try to join are traitors.
      • They have to abandon their homes, cultures, and ways of life.
      • They have to survive their country's hunter-nin actively...hunting them.
      • They have to convince Leaf/their allies to not kill them.
      • They have to rebuild everything and adapt to a new culture/way of life.
      • And all that for a (maybe) better future.
    • A significant portion of ninjas joining up will be spies.
      • Because seriously, this is too good an opportunity to pass up.
      • Yamanaka aren't going to cut it, and only Leaf has them anyway.
These are the initial impressions for each major point of your plan. I did not do in-depth research.
 
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faflec said:
That's...ok. Maybe my written point was a bit different from my actual point. I was trying to tell you that a single massive plan like this is a bad idea (i.e., we give plan to Inoue-sensei, then Jiraiya, and then make the UN). What I wanted to suggest was that we should give the plan to Inoue-sensei and get her thoughts, and end the update. Shorter plans get us more XP, and MfD doesn't follow the same rules with regards to time.
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What for? We should at least give the QMs three scenes to work with. Shorter plans doesn't necessary give us more XP. Good plan does.

But it's also clear we don't need to burden the QMs with too many scenes that will have to be skipped.
 
A thing we desperately want, and Leaf would desperately want us to have as we start making world breaking seals, are things (devices/seals) that allow us to destroy the important thing (device/seal) upon capture/defeat. (Or, upon someone trying to remove the item that obscures the actual seal)

Leaf would be conflicted, because then we would have limited protection from them just taking our stuff (against everyone but Yamanaka). But they wouldn't want anything we make to fall into the hands of their enemies.

A political answer to the current dilemma may be to propose that we provide skywalkers to Leaf, in exchange for a measure of good will (No matter what, the only result of immediate naturalization is a seal-factory for us), and some kind of seal/device to reduce accidental proliferation. It is difficult to imagine a rational, military world that does not have something of that nature. For that matter, have we asked Kagome?

If we don't have that, we are actively dangerous to all nations when they find out, and will immediately be assimilated to seal factory, or killed. If we had tech to prevent proliferation, we might actually continue to be useful in the field.

As is, I think developing new world breaking tech is harmful to our goals. The likelihood of death and proliferation now is high, and that tech will be used to destroy any hope of other people accomplishing them.
 
faflec said:
That's...Ok, maybe my written point was a bit different from my actual point. I was trying to tell you that a single massive plan like this is a bad idea (i.e., we give plan to Inoue-sensei, then Jiraiya, and then make the UN). What I wanted to suggest was that we should give the plan to Inoue-sensei and get her thoughts, and end the update. Shorter plans get us more XP, and MfD doesn't follow the same rules with regards to time.

With that being said, having looked at the plan this won't work at all.
  • Treaties to the extent of "don't attack our civilians" already exist between all the nations, yet scorch squads still exist.
    • Scorch squads are deniable assets. If ninja from Village A are caught killing civilians from Village B, Village A will claim these ninja are missing-nin.
    • It's only when a large scorch squad encounters a ninja patrol that wars start. Because the two groups would fight, and ninjas would die. Retaliation would happen. Things escalate. War.
  • Ninjas helping civilians from foreign countries (i.e., who give their food/resources to foreign ninjas) will not benefit Leaf. This will be veto'd completely.
    • I know you're gonna say "But they'll be incentivized to go to Leaf!". See below.
  • Civilians have no way of traveling hundreds or even maybe thousands of miles just to resettle in the Land of Fire (see map in my sig).
    • Problems:
      • They have to abandon their homes, cultures, and ways of life.
      • They have to survive chakra monsters, bandits, and their country's ninjas pretending to be bandits (see below).
      • They have to find a good place to settle.
      • They have to compete with other settlers/native Leaf citizens for good spots to settle.
      • They have to rebuild everything and adapt to a new culture/way of life.
      • And all that for a (maybe) better future.
    • There's no way we, the missing-nin supporting Jiraiya, can help with this.
      • There's too few of us. Jiraiya doesn't have a ninja army at his beck and call.
      • His spy network doesn't focus on small towns. Why would backwater town #129 in the Land of Waterfalls matter?
    • Leaf could do the trick...but all hell would break loose.
      • Leaf has fewer ninjas in its borders. Secret coalition of enemy villages group up and vaporize Leaf. Skywalker seals won't save Konoha from being razed.
      • Leaf doesn't have the right to run rampant over other country's borders to do things other countries don't want them to do. That's a declaration of war.
  • Nobody is going to know if the Land of ABC kills its own traitorous civilians.
    • Competent ninjas are stealthy as hell. How is Jiraiya's spy network going to know that Random Village #35 was killed by its own country's leadership, and not...well...killed by wildlife/bandits while traveling to Fire?
    • International communications are word-of-mouth. It took weeks for word of our Hot Springs attack to reach Sound (see: Inoue talking to merchant leaving Sarubetsu). It'll take months for international communication to spread the word of how Former Village #205 was destroyed, and that's not taking into account the "how do you know ninjas did it?" problem.
  • Foreign non-Leaf ninjas going to Leaf? Nope.
    • Everyone will immediately declare war.
      • Missing-nin are universally reviled. There is a "unofficial" agreement that no country accepts missing-nin (which everyone breaks). Leaf and co. making it official...will be bad.
    • Other villages will spread counter-propoganda along the lines of "Leaf is talking out of their asses".
      • I don't think you've realized this, but ninjas are brainwashed from childhood to believe in their Kage.
    • Any ninjas that actually try to join are traitors.
      • They have to abandon their homes, cultures, and ways of life.
      • They have to survive their country's hunter-nin actively...hunting them.
      • They have to convince Leaf/their allies to not kill them.
      • They have to rebuild everything and adapt to a new culture/way of life.
      • And all that for a (maybe) better future.
    • A significant portion of ninjas joining up will be spies.
      • Because seriously, this is too good an opportunity to pass up.
      • Yamanaka aren't going to cut it, and only Leaf has them anyway.
These are the initial impressions for each major point of your plan. I did not do in-depth research.
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Is there some way to trick foreign scorch squads into being exposed to the public? Or some way to show people that all the nations use scorch squads without making an enemy of every nation in the world?
 
Kiba said:
What for? We should at least give the QMs three scenes to work with. Shorter plans doesn't necessary give us more XP. Good plan does.

But it's also clear we don't need to burden the QMs with too many scenes that will have to be skipped.
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No, I meant that the plan would span years of in-story time, which is insane.
Pilot Klingon said:
Is there some way to trick foreign scorch squads into being exposed to the public? Or some way to show people that all the nations use scorch squads without making an enemy of every nation in the world?
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Having thought about it for five minutes?

Scorch squads are considered to be "rogue missing-nin doing missing-nin things" when confronted about it. That's the official story.

There is no unofficial story. Kages tell the scorch squads (who are likely veteran ninjas with lifetimes of proven trust) to destroy Village #34. They do not write it down. That would be stupid.

How did Kagome know then? He got hearsay from whatever village he was working for, and concluded all the ninjas do it. He has no proof, just the conclusions of his home village. And hearsay turns it into a he-said/she-said that does not favor random missing-nin.

Catch a scorch squad? The whole point is that they don't get found until far after they've done their job. It's only when the squads go after large towns that they start fighting ninjas. And the squad retreats, or barring that, kill themselves. They're not a combat team, they're a stealth team (since they're going against civilians). They're loyal enough to suicide immediately when things look grim.

Trick to showing they exist? In a world where illusions exist, and even civilians believe that ninjas can make you think and do anything? In a world where Henge exists, and anyone can Henge into Yagura telling his scorch squad to do things?

Good luck.
 
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Adept_Woodwright said:
A political answer to the current dilemma may be to propose that we provide skywalkers to Leaf, in exchange for a measure of good will (No matter what, the only result of immediate naturalization is a seal-factory for us)
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What about getting a charter to found a vassal minor village, on (or above/below) isolated, uninhabited Leaf land? Gives us protection and them some knowledge/control over us, without the risks of full naturalization (enslavement for us, literal/metaphorical explosions for them).

(Sorry if this has been brought up already--I'm trying to avoid spending all my free time on the thread while still contributing a bit, and I know digging through the discussion too much is gonna drag me back in.)
 
Langevin said:
What about getting a charter to found a vassal minor village, on (or above/below) isolated, uninhabited Leaf land? Gives us protection and them some knowledge/control over us, without the risks of full naturalization (enslavement for us, literal/metaphorical explosions for them).

(Sorry if this has been brought up already--I'm trying to avoid spending all my free time on the thread while still contributing a bit, and I know digging through the discussion too much is gonna drag me back in.)
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So, basically VHitM?

We don't know what mountain might want though.

I don't really want to found a traditional hidden village, more like a safehaven or a colony.
 
Proposal: Feather Fall System
A safety feature in case Skywalkers fail and eventually for civilians who want to leave from Hidden Heaven.

Modify air dome seals to pulse on and off repeatedly, at a frequency that allows safe descent. Put a pair of them on a board with wooden hemispheres positioned to fit in the interior diameter of the domes (paired to prevent rotation).
 
schlega said:
Proposal: Feather Fall System
A safety feature in case Skywalkers fail and eventually for civilians who want to leave from Hidden Heaven.

Modify air dome seals to pulse on and off repeatedly, at a frequency that allows safe descent. Put a pair of them on a board with wooden hemispheres positioned to fit in the interior diameter of the domes (paired to prevent rotation).
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Combined with yet-to-be-unlocked impulse seal and parachute system, you're golden.
 
schlega said:
Proposal: Feather Fall System
A safety feature in case Skywalkers fail and eventually for civilians who want to leave from Hidden Heaven.

Modify air dome seals to pulse on and off repeatedly, at a frequency that allows safe descent. Put a pair of them on a board with wooden hemispheres positioned to fit in the interior diameter of the domes (paired to prevent rotation).
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Just make sure you have a rope that's reasonably elastic, otherwise the sharp forces from stopping a fall could make it snap.
 
MadScientist said:
Well.

That certainly explains @Velorien's cryptic "updated delayed because of Inoue-Sensei".

Um.

Okay.

Wow.

The question now is "Can we accomplish our goals better as a Leaf Obligate-Sealmaster than as a missing nin deniable asset?"

Or put another way: "Do we go with Plan: Hidden Heaven, or Plan: Make Leaf Win?"
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Basically, I think that if we go to Leaf, almost everyone will gang up on them, and they might win anyway, but at the cost of basically all our family and friends.
Muer'ci said:
Kei got along best with her, out of all people she's met. Hazou may be hazy on how much Kei likes her, but it's not a stretch to say "at least somewhat".
I kinda don't want to draw Keiko alone, but if not Tenten...
Huh. Give her an in-game version of that one cool picture of the team playing games, Pandaa and all? To remind her she's not alone? This might be even better.
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Radvic said:
Mkay, so potential problems with the first idea are just her getting embarrased probably? Which is probably ok. I could see her having problems with her gift being a drawing of the whole team which doesn't prodominatly feature her, since she could just go "Oh, look. I'm relegated to the corner. They don't need me." I think a better alternative would be to draw a scene that is important to us in our interactions with her. Ideas I have are:
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*rolls eyes*
This is Keiko. If we're not sure, we should go ask.

[X] Birthday Plan: Clear Communication no Jutsu
(This should happen onscreen.)
At the earliest reasonable opportunity, tell Keiko the following, adjusting for flow of conversation/words/whatever at Hazou's discretion:

"I have been thinking about my birthday present to you, but I realized that my first plan, which was developing seals that would synergize with your weapon specialty, would send the wrong message. Because unlike Noburi, your fields of specialty are not your primary interest.

"You are valuable to me for several reasons, and the most important one is not your skill with weaponry, or your powerful bloodline, but rather that you are one of the very few people I trust beyond reasonable doubt, and furthermore, you are the only person I know who understands me on some levels, mostly pertaining to human interaction. Those are the things I would like to emphasize with your birthday gift, and also, I would like it to last. Can you suggest anything appropriate?"
 
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I really want to see Hazou tear into Mari for being so hard on herself. Like, not destructively, but in the "What the HELL are you thinking, you crazy jounin, you've kept us alive for how long as missing nin of all things?" sense.
 
Does anyone want Hazou to die? If so I think we should set up a candle lit dinner between noburi and keiko for her birthday. Totally not a date. Figuring out how to get them both to the table without figuring out what's going on could be difficult.
 
Kalkin said:
Does anyone want Hazou to die? If so I think we should set up a candle lit dinner between noburi and keiko for her birthday. Totally not a date. Figuring out how to get them both to the table without figuring out what's going on could be difficult.
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Noburi would enjoy it. Keiko...

Keiko hasn't shown any romantic interest in Noburi.
 
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