@faflec , Can you include the clause "like Kagome, things we say shouldn't be held against us" for future Leaf negotiations as mentioned here

I also think we should incorporate the multi-layered deception in my other post, as that addresses a lot of the issues regarding Leaf's potential betrayal, but that may be more controversial. Regardless of whether we actually go to Leaf, a social safety-net clause is extremely important.
Right, so this is the sort of thing that isn't going to be part of my plan: I'm limiting myself to writing only about the current discussion with Inoue-sensei and getting a good present for Keiko. Once we get notes on our current sealing advancements I'll add that in as well. But "what we should ask from Konoha" should be decided after we actually decide to join Konoha (but obviously before we actually go to Jiraiya).
 
That's fine, as long as those clauses are in whatever future plan is relevant, I will support those plans barring other disagreements.
 
[X] Action Plan: No Politics Please

Goals:
  • Survive.
  • Cheer up, Inoue-sensei
  • Respond to the "Join Konoha" question.
  • Make a good present for Keiko.
Methods:
Non-Scene Spare Time Hazo (COMPLETELY OPTIONAL)
  • Goal: To increase access for Hazo to hivemind's scientific knowledge to better acquire COSMIC POWER.
  • Steps:
    • Begin taking notes on the natural world.
    • Ponder ideas about the nature of reality.
    • If possible, conduct experiments.
  • Supporting Information:
    • It is not necessary for the QM to write out this scene, and may be skipped or omitted at QM's pleasure.
    • The QM may inform us of Hazo's ideas.
    • Notetaking is a new quirk/habit he took up.
      • Notes should be about the natural world, people he saw, objects, concepts, etc.
      • No mission-sensitive info should show up on that notes.
      • Only shown in appropriate context(IE, not on infiltration mission or when he's debriefing and so on).
    • Sapre time is most likely near bedtime or at dawn.
    • See Science for potential discoveries Hazo might make.
  • Potential Issues
    • Lack of access to EN's knowledgebase.
      • Unfortuantely, this cannot be fixed easily, unless more books are brought.
    • Hazo got misleading or wrong answers to questions.
      • Can be fixed easily enough if QM informs us what he thought.
Scene Inoue-sensei
  • Goals:
    • Finish the conversation with Inoue-sensei.
    • Get back to her on Konoha.
  • Steps:
    • Explain to her that it isn't her fault.
    • Say you'll think about Konoha, but
      • that you need to think about it and
      • will only do so if it's in the whole team's best interest.
    • Get back to her on Konoha at a later date.
      • Analyze the "Join Konoha" question. Consider both the Pros and Cons.
      • Will not commit to anything yet. Need actual team discussion.
      • Does not have to happen this update.
  • Supporting Information:
    • On Konoha:
      • Consider the political question from all angle.
      • State that the pros are pretty good.
      • Explain the Cons
        • Needs to be in everyone's interest
          • Not interested in disbanding the team, or abandoning Inoue
          • Kagome will be anxious about returning to Konoha so soon.
          • Risky for Kagome and Hazō, being dangerous sealmasters.
            • Leaf will take our threats very seriously, if they weren't before.
            • People make mistakes occasionally; Hazō does frequently.
        • Does making Leaf powerful help our long-term goals?
          • They gain near-undisputed aerial control, which will unbalance things.
          • Leaf might not actually be all nice.
            • Example: That Hyuga brat from team Gai
            • Leaf showed us only what they want us to see.
            • Leaf might have a dark underbelly that we did not get to see.
          • Leaf may consider us too risky to be nice to
            • Could end up dead.
            • Staying in Konoha mitigates this somewhat.
            • May be assasinated by anti-us factions.
          • Won't prevent WW4 from breaking out.
          • Won't guarantee a merciful Leaf.
          • Will make it hard to fix corruption in Leaf, eg. Scorch Squads
        • Yagura will get mad
          • Mist will go to war with Leaf, which we do not want.
          • OOC: Given the war that may or may not come soon, this may be a non-issue.
        • Unexplored Options:
          • Hidden Mountain: Keiko might has a way in as the Pangolin summoner.
          • Bargaining for something else other than citizenship.
          • Leave the EN altogether.
          • Establishing Hidden Heaven
        • Mori and Wakahisa clans will hate Keiko and Noburi.
          • Both of them really do care about their clans. Unlike us; we just care about mummy.
          • We have to run this with them anyway; if they don't accept we aren't doing it anyway.
  • Possible Issues:
    • Inoue-sensei might get puzzled about the political analysis.
    • Inoue-sensei might decide to kill us depending on our answer.
      • Unlikely. Also, extremely silly.
Scene Noburi
  • Goal: We want to help Noburi finish his medical training safely.
  • Steps:
    • Let Noburi know that Hazo is supportive of his ambitions as a medic-nin and that we want to help him on that path.
    • Don't spend much time on this before the team Leaf discussion in a later update, since we might not go to Hashimoto.
    • Discuss potential issues, and how we might address them.
    • Suggest that we should be cautious.
  • Supporting Information; Potential Issues
    • Hashimoto might not want to teach Noburi
      • Ask Noburi what things Hashimoto might want (ryo, Macerators...) and offer to help with getting these things.
    • Hashimoto might reject Noburi completely no matter the rewards.
      • Ask for referal to another medic-nin that the team could learn from.
    • Hunter-nin might notice Noburi and/or his barrel.
      • Bring up Noburi disguising his barrel as a travel sack or appropriate covering.
      • Suggest Noburi obfuscate his movement through clever Henge use:
        • Noburi + Inoue go to Hashimoto's.
          • When Noburi leaves, Inoue creates a Water Clone Henge'd as Noburi.
          • Inoue & clone leave.
          • Repeat when Noburi leaves (at a set time?).
Scene Gift for Keiko
  • Goal: give Something on Keiko's Birthday that she will like.
  • Steps:
    • Brainstorm gift idea with the team.
    • Build it.
    • Gift it.
  • Suppporting Information:
    • Gift Ideas:
      • Drawing.
      • Depictation on a whetstone.
      • Choose one to three scenes from the list, ordered by what Hazo think is best.
        1. Retrieving the Pangolin summoning scroll and becoming the Pangolin summoner.
          • Emphasis on her overcoming obstacles.
          • Depict the scene after she comes back with Pandaa (ask Kagome's help with this).
        2. Beating us all in that game of EN!Risk (include Team Keiten).
        3. An image of us all (Akane included) with her in the middle (this should be in the center).
        4. Terrifying the shit out of the Irie and Hinago patrols.
        5. Taking down Arikada's bodyguards without using chakra.
  • Potential Issues:
    • Kagome-sensei might panic/blow up Hazo at the idea of using sealing fragments
    • Keiko might be depressed by gift showing her in less than favorable light.
      • Use CCnJ to show why this is not the case.
Scene Sealing Projects
  • Goal: Do more sealing research
  • Steps:
    • Finish the Skywalker project if it isn't already. (including safety protocol, safety engineering, safety testing, etc)
    • Choose the next sealing project and work on that.
  • Supporting Information:
    • Have the team/Kagome pick and choose projects
      • Ideally, it should have the maxmium reward while still fast enough to develop before the next mission.
      • It should be within Hazo's skill level.
    • Seal and technology work, listed in order of desirability. Spend time researching or discussing, depending on idea:
      1. Research alarm seals and Banshee seals
      2. Macerator 3.0
        • Shear force to ≥ 35,000 mPa
        • Priority velocity to ≥ 300 m/s
        • Combine with PMYF.
      3. The Zeppelin Project.
        • Start with basic hot air balloon.
          • Acquiring heatproof fabric (or equivalent) for balloon.
          • We know shops sell fabrics, but there may be a more convenient source.
          • Safely producing heat.
          • Consider rigid frame variants, or contained ones that require less active heating.
          • Consider safety protocols for final use; should overlap with Skywalker rules.
          • Outline potential seals for fancy variants.
        • Explain using ancedotes and examples such as the jump and sky lanterns.
      4. Ask about the feasibility of Spider Yoyos
        • Preferably timer-based versions of Skywalkers on throwable wires, so you can Spiderman around.
        • Alternatively, put them on long, rigid rods if stability can't be worked out for wires.
      5. Poor Man's Shadow Clone Shuriken
      6. Bazooka: Longe range AoE weapon
        • Use a modified version of the unidirectional explosive seal to propel projectiles.
        • If flexible material available, 5SB variant is feasible:
          • This is to protect the barrel during firing.
          • A separate flat platform from bazooka itself to allow quick sealing before shooting,
          • Hang flexible frame inside rigid exoskeleton, with an excess square off bottom with the 5SB preplaced
          • Need not be particularly gun-shaped or bazooka shape.
      7. Gun: Smaller cousin, less collateral damage
        • See the Bazooka for detail
      8. Advanced PMYF Macerators with payloads (for smokebombs, flashbangs, pepper spray).
        • Note: We have to research making the Macerator seals with PMYF function.
Contingencies
  • We should already be ready to relocate at any time.
    • We should know where we are going to escape.
    • We should have enough seal blanks for escape + mission.
  • Escape paths:
    • Have traps set up so we can escape to the southwest river or the eastern coast (depending on the situation).
    • More if Kagome-/Inoue-sensei say so.
  • Jiraiya calls us in:
    • Figure out what country we're going to, then draft plans
    • Will probably involve water/coastal routes
    • Should be a good stopping point to end an update.
  • Pangolin stuff:
    • Be polite and careful. Let Inoue-sensei or Keiko take the leads.
    • Get ready for a mission. See the Jiraiya section.
  • A wild ??? appears:
    • End update if dangerous things start to happen
    • Focus on opsec, for now.
 
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...

Hear me out.

What if (if we agree with Inoue-sensei) Konoha locks up in a seal factory for the rest of our lives, and she knows this?

What if the plan is to remove us from the group, in the process buying the team's safety (either by joining Leaf, or other means)?
 
[X] Action Plan: A Foray into Politics
The red text is unfinished and the green text may be debatable. Please help.

Goals:
  • Survive.
  • Tell Inoue-sensei this isn't her fault.
  • Respond to the "Join Konoha" question.
  • Make a good present for Keiko.
Methods:
  • Tell Inoue-sensei this isn't her fault.
    • Our actions aren't her fault.
    • Without your teachings and leadership we would have all died horribly months ago.
    • Even if we choose to go to Leaf and everything works out on that end, we'll still need you.
  • Respond to the "Join Konoha" question.
    • We want to actually consider this from all angles.
    • State that Inoue-sensei's "pros" for Konoha are reasonable.
    • Ask about possible problems with going to Konoha, beyond what's already stated:
      • Kagome will be anxious about returning to Konoha so soon.
      • Mist will erupt into a frothing rage and declare war if and when they find out.
      • We absolutely establish ourselves as an innovative, if not powerful, sealmaster.
        • Leaf will take our threats very seriously, if they weren't before. A Freudian slip kills us horribly.
      • Leaf may choose to take Skywalker seals and kill us to keep us from falling into enemy hands/betraying Konoha.
        • Staying in Konoha mitigates this somewhat.
        • The anti-us faction (who Jiraiya was pushing against) may try to assassinate us for this reason.
      • Leaf becomes absurdly more powerful because they gain (near-)undisputed aerial control.
        • Will making Leaf absurdly powerful help Hazou's dream?
      • Mori and Wakahisa clans will hate Keiko and Noburi.
        • Both of them really do care about their clans. Unlike us; we just care about mummy.
        • We have to run this with them anyway; if they don't accept we aren't doing it anyway.
    • Conclude that this sort of thing should not be decided quickly.
      • Suggest that we (i.e. just Hazou) are not averse to this plan, but the above considerations must be taken into account.
  • Make a good present for Keiko.
We should bring up the option of establishing Hidden Mountain as a legitimate power, then trading sealing tech to solidify an alliance with leaf. I'm still leaning towards joining leaf outright, but we should discuss all possibilities.
 
Mmmm...

Kagome would really not take the news that his apprentice had voluntarily seal-sweatshopped himself well.

Like, I wouldn't be surprised if that gave him a breakdown.
 
...

Hear me out.

What if (if we agree with Inoue-sensei) Konoha locks up in a seal factory for the rest of our lives, and she knows this?

What if the plan is to remove us from the group, in the process buying the team's safety (either by joining Leaf, or other means)?
I don't believe that she would do that to us willingly.
 
Thread moves fast.
Don't want to cry in front of bullies? ... Don't want to let J know that you're pissing yourself in fear?
You repeated yourself there :p (but actually)
If we're enough of a VIP, other villages will risk jonin level suicide missions to see us killed. If Hazou cannot defend himself in the event of an assassination attempt that gets close enough, he's dead. As such it's in their interest that their new seal-master is capable of defending himself, because he's more useful alive than dead.
This seems fairly wrong. Like, if a jounin is attacking us, we need to be ~Jounin to be able to defend ourselves against them. It's much easier for them to just assign their own protector to us, and have us use a protection box if we need to.
Yeah, we can pull a light-side Orochimaru! :p
Things Orochimaru has done (or that we suspect him doing):
  • Defect from Leaf
  • Found a village trying to make civilians lives better
  • Found an international free medical organization
  • Hire someone to research resurrection techniques
I fail to see how he is a dark-side Orochimaru?
Bargain Skywalker seals for something good (Leaf Citizenship or something equally shiny),
Or hide from Jiraiya until we have actual opsec so he won't just steal it anyway.
This is the crux of the issue on "do we do stuff with Jiraiya or not." In either case, we're running away and grinding until we can defend ourselves before we go back out into the world. In one situation, that means go off to our own little corner of the wilderness and make a living (likely by going far away, then nuking it to oblivion and back again), and in the other, that means go off to the strongest village and sign up. They're different, but they both have us likely doing some pretty substantial time-skips as we make seals and train.
Our bargaining chips aren't going away.
Our bargaining chips are going away. Our "walk on air" technique is incredibly easy to copy if anybody gets the idea we had. If ninja become known for running through the air, people will start trying to figure out how we did that, which means, unless we leave absolutely no witnesses to our use of them and make no reports to superiors, the cat will get out of the bag. It's like nuclear proliferation, if high-schoolers could make nukes in their garage and nobody had happened upon the method yet. Once you demonstrate the ability, everybody's going to try it. We will not have this bargaining chip if we use it, which means we can either do nothing, or use it now.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Is Hazou capable of drawing? Would the remaining time be sufficient for a good quality drawing of Tenten and Keiko?
One possible problem with this gift idea: Keiko could interpret it as us telling her we want her off the team?
 
Our bargaining chips are going away. Our "walk on air" technique is incredibly easy to copy if anybody gets the idea we had. If ninja become known for running through the air, people will start trying to figure out how we did that, which means, unless we leave absolutely no witnesses to our use of them and make no reports to superiors, the cat will get out of the bag.

Watching us run through the air does not tell you how to do it. For the idea to be reverse-engineered, the people we're fighting must basically be seal specialists (unlikely), survive the encounter (not trivial), not just immediately dismiss this as an unknown jutsu or seal (extremely unlikely), be sufficiently creative to find out how to do this themselves (unlikely) and decide to share the idea (not particularly likely). A modicum of opsec solves the rest.
 
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Watching us run through the air does not tell you how to do it. For the idea to be reverse-engineered, the people we're fighting must basically be seal specialists (unlikely), survive the encounter (not trivial), not just immediately dismiss this as an unknown jutsu or seal (extremely unlikely), be sufficiently creative to find out how to do this themselves (unlikely) and decide to share the idea (not particularly likely). A modicum of opsec solves the rest.
Opsec is not one of our strengths, though.
 
The Skywalker seals require Jiraiya's proprietary Air Dome seal. Depending on how common that is, it could be nigh-impossible to engineer independently for other powers.
 
The opsec for those shoes is to used them for crossing borders and to not get into a fight where you need to use them, hence weapon development of our 'bazooka' and 'guns'.
 
Also would Hazou really want to become a citizen of a country that locks him in a kill box for poor word choices
 
IIRC, Ui originally took the founding members of the village with him into hiding since the world was too dangerous for civilized people.

Actually, Ui went off to fight the army of Warlord Sen. As he was leaving he told his apprentice, Jukodo Akio, to take the Pangolin Summoning Scroll to safety in a city on the other side of the mountains; he probably asked the the local blacksmith and his wife (and possibly others?) to go along as responsible adults. Akio and his group made it part of the way to their destination and then, for reasons you never found out, stopped. There weren't a lot of them when they left Ui's house, so they must have brought in more people from the outside at some point in order to go from "a small family" to "a small village." Akio was only partially trained as a ninja, but he was the only source of ninja training available. In the centuries since then the village must have reinvented essentially everything -- taijutsu, ninjutsu, sealing, everything.

*This is dependent on how much they were affected by TGR, though. @OliWhail @Velorien @eaglejarl could we have a new estimation of Hidden Mountain's military ability in light of those changes?
I'll get back to you when the others are around.

This would allow you to
Something I've noticed, Rihaku -- you always say "you" instead of "we". Why is that? This isn't meant to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious. It's outside my experience with quests and their players.

One possible problem with this gift idea: Keiko could interpret it as us telling her we want her off the team?
Context is important. If you CCnJ-explain what the intent is it will help a lot. It won't fix a bad choice but it will keep a decent choice from being misinterpreted.
 
Mmmm...

Kagome would really not take the news that his apprentice had voluntarily seal-sweatshopped himself well.

Like, I wouldn't be surprised if that gave him a breakdown.
He would probably try to kidnap us and break out of the village with a liberal use of explosives.
 
[X] Action Plan: Propose victory plan for Leaf

All the ninja in the world are either missing nin or part of a nation. So we can either do things the hard way by gathering a ton of missing nin, which could take years and years and years and may not actually work due to lack of resources, or we can do the same thing by gathering contacts within the Elemental nations, and that requires a bunch of different contacts from different nations to be willing to work together...

Or we could just go with Leaf, which is already closer to reaching our goal than any other place in the world.

This is what I propose.

  • We propose the following entire plan to Mari honestly and completely, along with our reasoning behind it. If Mari approves the plan, then we do as Mari suggested and take our new invention to Jiraiya, and propose te following entire plan to him honestly and completely, along with our reasoning behind it. Then Jiraiya will bring the following plan to the Hokage if he thinks it's worth the Hokage's time.
If the Hokage gives the go ahead on our plan, this is what will happen.

  • Fire will make a treaty with its allies promising not to harm each other's civilians, and to promote the civilians' quality of life. It will offer this treaty to every other nation too, and the ones who refuse or who break the treaty (like Mist obviously will) will be declared an enemy of Fire and it's allies. (That will also be part of the treaty).

  • Our teammates and the missing nin in Jiraiya's network will start going around helping civilians all over the Elemental nations, while spreading the word that any civilian who wants a better life will be welcomed in the lands of Fire and it's allies, and also that any enemy ninja who are still alive after the war will be treated well as full citizens of Fire or its allies if they win.

  • The foreign ninjas will be skeptical of this at first. But the other nations obviously don't want their civilians fleeing to Fire or its allies, so they will try to stop the civilians from leaving either be killing them or otherwise trapping them. This will be very bad for their PR. Fire will capitalize on this by portraying themselves as the heroes on a mission to free the foreign civilians. Many good non-Leaf ninja will defect to Fire and its allies as a result.

  • It might even be possible that we could convince non-Leaf ninjas to spy on their own nations if we promise that their nation's people including ninjas and civilians will be treated better if Leaf wins. They might be skeptical at first, but once they realize that we are treating their runaway civilians well, the foreign ninjas will have reason to believe that we are being honest with them about all of this. It would basically be making foreign ninja into loyal traitors to their home countries.

Fire and its allies will be United Nations facing a divided world.

With the possible threat of another great ninja war on the horizon, we might not have years and years to gain political power in Leaf. And even if we did it's not certain that we even can gain political power in Leaf since we aren't native born Leaf nor are we from noble Leaf families and they might not ever trust us enough.

But we don't need to gain political power in Leaf to get this plan to be carried out. We just need to give this plan to Jiraiya and have him propose it to the Hokage. If the Hokage thinks it has a good chance of working he will approve it. Otherwise we'll just come up with another plan.

We probably won't get a better opportunity than this one...ever. If we want to uplift the world, this is likely our best and possibly only chance.

Also this is my first plan. Feel free to point out flaws and suggest corrections.
 
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Also this is my first plan. Feel free to point out flaws and suggest corrections.
Without criticizing the feasibility of the plan itself, I note that you are jumping the gun. We are not in a position to dictate Konoha policy towards other nations even with Skywalker seals; it'll take years to get to the point where we'd have said influence. I'd argue that if you want to try this plan you should propose, or vote for, plans that involve us going to Leaf and building up our political power first, and then work towards ninja UN.

tl;dr One step at a time

Anyway, I had a thought on Keiko's present from us. Thoughts?
  • Painting/carving/similar depiction of all the times Keiko was a badass:
    • Retrieving the Pangolin summoning scroll and becoming the Pangolin summoner.
    • Terrifying the shit out of the Irie and Hinago patrols.
    • Skewering Arikada's bodyguards without using chakra.
 
On Keiko's gift, I've seen a lot of talk about drawing a picture, and the first comment raises the question whether we're any good at drawing, but I didn't see anyone respond with an actual MfD canon answer. Does anyone know if we're good at drawing or not?
 
Without criticizing the feasibility of the plan itself, I note that you are jumping the gun. We are not in a position to dictate Konoha policy towards other nations even with Skywalker seals; it'll take years to get to the point where we'd have said influence. I'd argue that if you want to try this plan you should propose, or vote for, plans that involve us going to Leaf and building up our political power first, and then work towards ninja UN.

tl;dr One step at a time

Anyway, I had a thought on Keiko's present from us. Thoughts?
Add making friends with Tenten to that list and I think it's pretty golden.
 
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