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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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So assuming we could get implosion seals that weren't destroyed when they were filled with air. We'd have a seal that when destroyed increases the pressure in some area by some degree. Couldn't this effect be compounded unlike explosive tags? We'd just need to make a big fat pile of them and and come up with a mechanism that destroys them all in as short a time as possible.
 
Kalkin said:
So assuming we could get implosion seals that weren't destroyed when they were filled with air. We'd have a seal that when destroyed increases the pressure in some area by some degree. Couldn't this effect be compounded unlike explosive tags? We'd just need to make a big fat pile of them and and come up with a mechanism that destroys them all in as short a time as possible.
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We can already make non-breaking implosion seals by putting a seal inside a 5SB with limited space, so that air doesn't destroy the tag when activated.

What do you think of using a large 5SB box filled with implosion seals? You'd activate the implosion seals one at a time so the 5SB doesn't get pasted, and eventually you'd have an indestructible box filled with air. Detonate all the tags at once (standard explosive tag), and you have an absurd amount of air being released into the environment from a small space.
 
faflec said:
We can already make non-breaking implosion seals by putting a seal inside a 5SB with limited space, so that air doesn't destroy the tag when activated.

What do you think of using a large 5SB box filled with implosion seals? You'd activate the implosion seals one at a time so the 5SB doesn't get pasted, and eventually you'd have an indestructible box filled with air. Detonate all the tags at once (standard explosive tag), and you have an absurd amount of air being released into the environment from a small space.
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I'd want an explosive tag that had a timer minutes long, at the very least. This gets really insane really quickly even if you just assume it's one to one.

P1​V1​ = P2​V2​

1 atmosphere is 14.6959 psi. I'm just going to use 14.69.
Let's we have 19 tags that sucked in a 5 meter radius.
And that those takes all release contents instantly.
20 * (P1​V1​) = V1​P2​
P2​= 20 * 14.69 = 293.8 psi
 
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eaglejarl said:
Are you sure about that "fine iron dust turns to sparks"? I did some poking around and everything I found said that the sparks weren't due simply to the oxidation but the cutting of the steel on iron or whatever is throwing off the sparks.
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Yup, this requires particles much smaller than the sparks you find when metal collides. What is happening is that the iron particles are small enough to rust rapidly in contact with air. Rusting is an exothermic reaction and can heat the particles up. Particles too large will only have their outer surfaces rust, and the unrusted volume in the center adds enough thermal mass to limit the temperature. At a certain point the particle is small enough to heat up enough to melt and glow.

The idea is that the macerator can chew up iron finely enough for this to occur, and then distribute it in the air densely enough that there's going to be at least a handful of lit particles for every cubic millimeter. Enough that there's no real single path through the target area that won't be lit up.
 
Jello_Raptor said:
Does someone know of a way to rapidly sequester oxygen that doesn't generate a ton of heat? Some oxidization reaction that is just barely exothermic and has a reasonably low activation energy?
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I mean, Akane has a jutsu that lets her sodomize the laws of thermodynamics on command, why can't we just use that with a common oxidation reaction?
 
Jello_Raptor said:
Still requires raising the temperature, I'm trying to figure out how to suffocate people to death, not burn them to death.
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Mod the implosion seal to only store oxygen so that only 21% of the air in the area is removed so the shockwave isn't strong enough to tear the seal and release it again?

Edit: Or just store a bunch of wood smoke in a PMYF. That has carbon monoxide in, right?
 
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faflec said:
Forgive me for asking...why?
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A couple of reasons: it won't set forests on fire, ninja won't know to dodge the invisible, odorless cloud of inert nitrogen, and it can be less than lethal in many cases.

A cloud of oxygen-drained air would disperse/mix quickly enough not to kill those caught in it, but still knock them out long enough to make a huge difference. How long does a ninja fight last, like 10 seconds on the short end?
 
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@Jello_Raptor Just to confirm: You want reactions that don't produce heat, correct? Because my point about Elemental Mastery is that Akane can stabilize the temperature so that any heat released becomes a nonfactor.
 
faflec said:
@Jello_Raptor Just to confirm: You want reactions that don't produce heat, correct? Because my point about Elemental Mastery is that Akane can stabilize the temperature so that any heat released becomes a nonfactor.
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Oh! That's a really good point. The only issue is that it's not something we can use in combat, but oxygen deprivation isn't the most effective combat tactic anyway. Great for traps though.
 
Jello_Raptor said:
Oh! That's a really good point. The only issue is that it's not something we can use in combat, but oxygen deprivation isn't the most effective combat tactic anyway. Great for traps though.
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"According to the U.S. Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board, in humans, 'breathing an oxygen deficient atmosphere can have serious and immediate effects, including unconsciousness after only one or two breaths' "


Also, I can't imaging Zabuza has been trained to detect the symptoms of Nitrogen asphyxiation, not that he'd even have much time to notice them.
 
Jello_Raptor said:
Oh! That's a really good point. The only issue is that it's not something we can use in combat, but oxygen deprivation isn't the most effective combat tactic anyway. Great for traps though.
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Velorien said:
​
Elemental Mastery Technique details:

Effect: The user can raise or lower ambient temperature of a fixed area by 5 °C/level over a few seconds. The insides of objects and creatures are not affected directly.

Duration: Concentration (hand seals maintained) + 10 min/level. Afterwards, the temperature gradually drifts back to normal.

Cost: 3 chakra/5 °C

Area: 3 m radius + 1 m/level

Requirements: Resolve x 3, Control x 3​
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Duration is however long you concentrate + 10min/level. So Akane could make the handseals to force the area (8m RN) to a fixed point for some 50 minutes, even if she makes the handseals then stops caring.

Hm. Does anyone remember if Elemental Mastery fully affects water? I can't recall what the results of our ice-making experiments were.
 
Modified implosion seal (to remove oxygen) would work better:
Velorien said:
- Implosion Seal

Specialized storage seal. It instantaneously seals all the air within 5-20 m. (Exact radius set at creation time.) Anyone caught in the AoE gets to have their lungs implode as the air sucked out of them. The tag is destroyed by the inrushing air, which causes all the air that it sealed to reappear in a small area, at which point it goes surging out with enough force to wreck a building.
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Literally takes out the oxygen from the body, that should be instant KO, if not death.
 
So, if we're looking to get some semblance of real peace...

Political marriages? Change the paradigm, so people are battling via relations, rather than war.

Fire and Water for example, could cement an alliance via arranged marriage between the two expected to be the next Kages. From there, their heir will be in charge of both.

This will, of course, force Earth and lightning to ally. And, again, there will be another marriage, etc. Eventually, you'll have a single person (nominally) in charge of the big 5.

From there, the biggest issue is keeping the person in charge from being assassinated for any intermingling efforts to actually work.
 
faflec said:
Modified implosion seal (to remove oxygen) would work better:

Literally takes out the oxygen from the body, that should be instant KO, if not death.
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The idea was that we'd modify it such that it only takes oxygen, so they pass out instantly without any injury, other than falling on their faces. Most of air isn't oxygen, so I don't think it'd be lethal. Just unpleasant.


faflec said:
The easiest way to permanently stop people from killing each other is to kill them all yourself.
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Ahh, the canon Pein plan. "War requires several people acting in opposition- therefore, if you annihilate civilization up you can achieve world peace!"
 
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Kylinger said:
The idea was that we'd modify it such that it only takes oxygen, so they pass out instantly without any injury, other than falling on their faces. Most of air isn't oxygen, so I don't think it'd be lethal. Just unpleasant.
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Except that if I'm reading things right, the implosion seal takes out all the oxygen in the body. Which may include the oxygen bound to hemoglobin.

Can't really tell since the guys blow up in the process.
 
faflec said:
Except that if I'm reading things right, the implosion seal takes out all the oxygen in the body. Which may include the oxygen bound to hemoglobin.

Can't really tell since the guys blow up in the process.
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Yeah, at that point you might as well just use a mummification seal (implosion seal that targets water instead of air, leaving everyone in radius as a desiccated husk).
 
faflec said:
Literally takes out the oxygen from the body, that should be instant KO, if not death.
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I am going to go ahead and say that the implosion seal, as it currently exists, removes only gaseous substances from its radius - hence the collapsing lungs. It does not remove all molecules of all potentially gaseous substances.
 
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