Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

LSkullD · Dec 20, 2016

Chronocide said:
I'm kind of worried that all of this emotional drama may be bad for Akane's health. I think we should prioritize doing whatever will stress her out the least over long-term relationship stuff. That means not saying anything about Ino to her for now, since that complicates things greatly. Maybe we could get Mari's advice on how to bring it up in a way that doesn't make her feel bad, but I won't count on it.

There may be long-term relationship drama born out of this, but I'd rather put that off until Akane's better.

Besides, Shikamaru's here.

He has some experience with depression, having dealt with Choji's body diasphora induced self loathing for years before the chuunin exam and actually helping him get through the academy, and his family's bloodline has been bluntly stated to have created Keiko's, so he might be able to recognize parts of her mind that the others don't.

We could prompt this by asking Ino for help, her refusing, and then hoping she recommends Shikamaru.

EDIT: Also, I'm unfamiliar with how sealing works and I don't have much physics knowledge, so I can't help there, but you're going to have to sell Ino on this free merchant system by pointing out the economic benefits of free trade, which would also help resolve the wars incidentally. Ino's not stupid and she's not going to sell out Leaf because of a crush, so she'll only help us if it actually has more pros than cons.

Shneddly · Dec 20, 2016

Jello_Raptor said:
Barrier the balloon, then screw the valve into the hole.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you thinking of something like a hot air balloon shape? Nothing wrong with it for testing purposes, but I think dirigibles are much better for traveling long distances, being more controllable and aerodynamic.

Jello_Raptor said:
Not really. The implosion seal stores a bunch of air, air rushing in to fill that gap destroys the seal, and the destroyed seal releases the air it had stored.

If the implosion seal is triggered in an airtight container, the air in the container will be stored, but since there's no inrush (the container is holding the outside air back) the seal won't be destroyed and its contents won't be released.

I don't think this method is a good idea. If the implosion seal creates an instant vacuum, how do we set the dimensions to the exact interior of the balloon, so it doesn't leave air that can destroy it? If the seal instead sucks in air over a very short period of time, how do we stop that onrushing of air from destroying it anyway? Or when you open the valve, how do you stop that air from destroying the seal? Instead, I think we should make seals out of more durable materials than paper, and avoid that problem altogether.

Kiba · Dec 20, 2016

If you want chakra steel, you need to pay a lot of money.

Not unless we automate production of steels, improve transportation, etc.

OliWhail · Dec 20, 2016

Another welcome to @Nilay! Yay new people!

LSkullD · Dec 20, 2016

OliWhail said:
Another welcome to @Nilay! Yay new people!

Thanks!

I can't help with seal research though.

Radvic · Dec 20, 2016

Nilay said:
Thanks!

I can't help with seal research though.

It's ok, we've got people for that. We need people who understand hard things like emotions and character motivation

those are way harder.

Also anti-youth votes. We have a problem.

Also not accepting ~~candy~~ missions from strange men.

Also missing merchant opportunities by demolishing businesses.

Also not killing our co-workers.

Plz halp.

LSkullD · Dec 20, 2016

Gotcha.

Radvic · Dec 20, 2016

Don't forget to actually vote kids!

[X] Action Plan: Steal This Plan

But also, there's omake!

Omake Pt. 5: How Do You Turn This Thing On?

{X} Eat and experiment with the seal device Samurai Blue gave you

-o-

BOOOOOM

"BOOM SQUISH STINKING STINKERS!"

Kagome cackled as another strangly garbed man fell prey to his explosive trap. Hmm… He'd need to find a new structure soon. The ground under his Five Seal Barrier reinforced house appeared to be… lacking. Fortunately, there were plenty of other houses. This was a huge city.

Bratatat

Kagome had never seen these types of projectiles before. Fortunately his five seal barrier walls were holding up to the task. Unfortunately, his last explosives appeared to have wrecked the undersides of his shelter. Fortunately, the enemy had thus far demonstrated terrible reflexes. Never could be sure if it was a trap though…

Opting for the safer approach, Kagome threw out a couple of his larger explosive seals, waited for the telltale explosions, then used the time his enemy was hiding to dart to another building.

He made it before the smoke had cleared. Probably safe. He put up a few Five Seal Barriers just in case, then checked his supplies. Still plenty of pillaged paper. He could make a better bunker here. This time he'd better protect the floor seals.

-o-

Meanwhile Elsewhere

Mair took in her surroundings. Thus far, pretending to be deaf and dumb had worked wonders. This city was gigantic! And the people so tall! And pale! And the food was to die for. She hadn't spotted any ninja at all (and she'd been looking). Wherever she was, it was definitely paradise. Probably should go look for the kids though.

-o-

Meanwhile Elsewhere

"So, just to reiterate: I can take this to a library, connect it to their wifi, and then access the internet?"

"That you can!"

"And my mother can use it to make wagers online at various websites to make money?"

The employee looked at Keiko sadly,

"I suppose. I hope your mother does something aside from gamble though."

"…"

Keiko left the shop with a new laptop under her arm. This new world was quite complex. She wasn't sure where her team was, and this laptop was the first thing she hadn't stolen (purchasing with stolen funds doesn't count), but with this, she thought she might have a start.

-o-

Meanwhile Elsewhere

Noburi relaxed. This was the life. An Island with no chakra monsters, plenty of sun, and sea creatures all around. It was kind of lonely though. He should get out and go explore, an advanced Wakahisa had no fear of an ocean without chakra beasts. He would go today.

He glanced around.

Or maybe tomorrow.

-o-

Meanwhile Elsewhere

"YOUTH!" Akane shouted while punching through another dummy. She wasn't sure where she was, but she had to be sure to finish thanking the people who had taken her in from the cold. The language barrier made it difficult to understand them, but they seemed to like it when she punched through dummies while they had their hands full of a device.

"Feel the passion of the SPRING!" Another dummy down. The couple signaled she could stop.

She figured she'd probably done enough for these people in the time she'd been here. She should get going soon.

Maybe she should make a storage seal before leaving? They were so convenient, and Hazou made them all the time. How hard could it be?

-o-

Hazou looked around. Everyone was grabbing some white fluffy probably food looking paste from the middle, putting it on their plates, and eating it. He copied them. It was bland. The others started talking, but Hazou figured now would be as good a time as any to test the seal. After all, it couldn't be too hard right?
"So how far are you going tomorrow?"
He pulled it out of his pocket. It was black and reflective.
"Thinking about just going two shelters down tomorrow."
He touched it.
"We were thinking about going three."
Nothing happened.
"We'll be reading more Ender's Game in the mornings…"
He ate more food, then touched it with one of the metal objects by his plate.
"Maybe I can make it… it's just long."
Nothing happened.
"What's Lost doing?"
He touched it and sent some chakra through it.
"I lent him my phone. I'm unsure if that was wise."
Nothing happened.
"…"
He stabbed aggressively at it with his thumb and send a fair amount of chakra through it.
"…"
It adhered to his thumb.

Conversation died down around him. Everyone was looking at him with the cubar dangling impossibly from his thumb.

"Um. Lost, how are you doing that?"

"I can't figure out how to work this seal. Seem to have sent too much chakra through and now it's adhered to my thumb. Should wear off soon."

"Wait. Chakra? What did you do?

Hazou shook his hand around waiting for the adhesion to come off.

"I tried sending a chakra pulse through the seal. You know, to activate it? But now it's stuck to my thumb."

Double Dip had his seal device out with one face pointed towards Hazou while intently looking at the other.

"How do you even work these things?"

The phone dropped from his thumb to the table. Everybody was looking at Hazou. But he knew he had to find a map from the seal device. He was sure it had one! Samurai Blue had also told him about a dictionary. He would persevere! Maybe something's wrong with my chakra?

Hazou pulled out his storage seal he'd made earlier, and unsealed his paper box.

Nope. Chakra and seals still work. Just this one doesn't.

"Is there a way I'm supposed to mold my chakra while using the cuba-"

Everyone seemed too busy looking at his paper box to pay attention to him, so Hazou resealed it.

"Cubar." He said pointing towards the seal device now on the table again. "Not working."

"Um, Lost, could you explain to us how you did that?"

Double Dip and Camp Shoes were actively discussing something. Does this country not have storage seals? Where am I?

"Do what?"

Double Dip and Camp Shoes appeared to have reached a consensus.

"Make a box appear from nowhere."

They tapped Blue Samurai on the shoulder and asked him a question.

"It's just a storage seal. Ninja use them all the time."

Hazou looked around. This was not how he had planned dinner and seal experimentation to go. But then again, seal experimentation always carried risks.

-o-

Clearly, the plan derailed. There were no contingencies for this

What Do?

{} Explain everything
{} Explain Some things
- what
{} THEY'LL NEVER CATCH ME! RUN AWAY!
{} Pretend to have a stroke
{} Write In

Radvic · Dec 20, 2016

Also, inspired by our latest obsession with aerial combat:

Omake: Aerial Combat, An Early History.

-o-

FIRST KNOWN AERIAL ATTACK

"Hey! I'll bet I can throw a kunai after jumping off this cliff, then substitute back!

"Bet you can't!"

*Jumps off cliff*
*Throws Kunai*
*Brief look of panic*
*SPLAT!*

"Told Ya!"

-o-

FIRST KNOWN AERIAL BATTLE

"So, I've learned to henge into a sparrow. It's perfect. I can now spy with impunity!"

"Cool! Can you show me?"

"Yep. Be warned, it took months of practice to get the flying motions down. It'll take you a while to learn"

*henges into a sparrow*
*Flies ~200 feet up*
*Is eaten by a chakra hawk*

-o-

FIRST KNOWN AERIAL ASSISTANCE DEVICE

"carefully and cautiously now…"

*begins to infuse seal*
*seal begins levitating*

"…huh"

*seal darts towards sealmaster, impacts her in the stomach, then takes off with her into the sky*

-o-

FIRST KNOWN INTENTIONAL AERIAL ASSISTANCE DEVICE

"So, I made this seal which interacts with five other seals, it keeps things stationary."

"Cool daddy! Show me!"

"Ok."

*activates Five Seal Barrier*

"Yay! But, it's still being held up by other things?"

*Removes table underneath object*

"Nope, totally stationary on it's own, see?"

"FUNNY FLOATING TOY!"

*Child jumps on object*

"I'M FLYING!"

OliWhail · Dec 20, 2016

{X} Plan CCnJ Activate!

In contradiction to all logic, these guys appear to not know what storage seals are.
This calls for your signature technique!
Ask, and explain, both in very explicit terms including as many assumptions as you can, what they think you just did and what you actually did
- Don't actually go into a lecture on sealing -- if SOMEHOW they genuinely don't know what storage seals are, that's a more extensive conversation for another time.
Ask them to demonstrate the use of the cubar in a similarly explicit and assumption-revealing manner ("please explain as if you were talking to a particularly dense child who had lived alone in a cave his whole life")

E:

To make it easier for Counterbot, here is
[X] Ino Response Plan: Uplift Seed planting

"You really want to know? Being a missing nin is sad. It's sad because once you're outside system, it becomes clear exactly how much time and effort is wasted on maintaining the status quo instead of helping people, even though helping people would be so easy any fresh academy grad could do it. Instead, ninja fight, and the world suffers."
- Because Ino might like it, and it promotes the ideas of team uplift
In conversations, talk about ways that everyday civilians can be helped by basic ninja things
- Because we want to drive the point home

MadScientist · Dec 20, 2016

{X} Plan CCnJ Activate!

hypothermic · Dec 20, 2016

So... I've been thinking about linked lists as it relates to sealing (which is to say: pointers). Linked list - Wikipedia

So, when you use a storage scroll the "object" gets stored and saved in some pocket of unknown space and the seal then becomes a way to access that pocket in space. Essentially the seal is the pointer to the reference in memory, and the object stored is the "value" at that reference point.

So, with that in mind, what if instead of storing a value there (or in addition to storing a value) we stored amother pointer to a different point of reference? This, I think, will be the key to multi-storage seals. The problem of course is that seals don't and won't store other seals.

So I believe our first step to multi-seals is determining what, if anything, is the difference between an empty storage seal and a "filled" storage seal. Does the seal itself change(visual or chakra?) when it is actually storing something ie: is the memory location pre-allocated (when the seal is first written) or is it allocated only upon the activation of the scroll when it is used to store something?

Either way, determining what part of the seal stores the "address" of stored materials (far easier if the seal itself changes after storing something) could lead to a wide range of possibilities. A couple of these include:

- a 'search' scroll: if the address can be seperate from the seal itself then you could potential search for any known and active pocket (that is a filled storage scroll) and produce what is being held, deactivating that storage scroll. This would allow you to have a veritable warehouse of storage scrolls and be able to access them from anywhere and at any time, producing whatever you need to access.

-a 'stack' scroll if you can know the address of the first item you store in a multistage scroll and you can make an incremental change to address, then you can store an infinite number of things and access them in the reverse order they were inputted. Useful for storing copies of the same thing (barrels for noburi) or things that would be accessed in a specific order.

Ofc it may not work like this at all

bayesclef · Dec 20, 2016

I'd like more of the thread's input regarding

How to deal with Yamanaka
How to deal with Akane

For the first, I'm favoring @OliWhail's suggestion of answering that being outside the system throws into perspective how much energy is put into maintaining a system that could have so much less suffering but for better coordination, and being a stoic missing-nin in any further interaction. Unless it becomes clear to me this is a minority opinion, I'll edit that in tonight.

For the second, I'm favoring CCnJ, framed for low emotional turbulence. Also, that whatever we feel, now is very much not the time for us to be a relationship with anyone. Again, this will be edited into the plan unless it becomes clear it's a minority view.

Also, voters should be aware that I'm trying to implement modular planning, so there's a library subplan which should be voted on. Criticism and alternatives are encouraged.

bayesclef said:
[X] Action Plan: Steal This Plan

Structure:

What action to take

How to take it

Why to take it

As before, Methods marked with (O) (because highlighting on mobile is hard) and (O) can (in my estimation) more easily occur offscreen than others. If a higher-level point is marked, all sub-points should be treated as marked, and bold underline bits are activities or information Hazou considers most important to complete or obtain in a timely manner.

Goals

Survive

Keep Team Uplift safe/sane/~~consensual~~ free

Good relations with Jiraiya / Leaf command structure

Good relations with Leaf in general; no disruptive incidents, feuds w/ clans, etc.

Keep Team Uplift happy

Good relations with minders

Methods

(O) Ask Noburi to regale us with how he wrecked that Hyuuga guy

Listen attentively, laugh along with him, agree that he is awesome

Because it was honestly pretty freaking cool, and Noburi deserves the recognition

Continue our outing with Team Asuma

[Reaction to Yamanaka goes here once thread has reached consensus]

(O) Hazou should be willing to laugh along with everyone if the subject of Lee's innuendo comes up

Because it was pretty funny and it's not a big deal. Seriously, that had to have been on purpose. Right?

(O) Continue rapport building (discuss favorite foods and preferred relaxing activities; war memorial, Hokage monument (view of the city from the top?), theater district)

Because we value building our friendships with them

Nerd out with Nara and Keiko: list the advantages of lists (pretty much the simplest you can get while maintaining hierarchical relations between points, easy to make them exhaustive and then pare down/simplify, high info density per surface area) and commiserate over how troublesome conversations are. If Nara expresses agreement, solicit his thoughts on CCnJ.

Because making friends ain't bad

(O) Visit a library: follow the highest-voted action subplan of the form "Action Subplan: Library*" (that is, the highest-voted action subplan where the first word in the title is "Library".)

If J grants our request for a secure discussion, have it once Noburi gets back. If not, have it after Team Asuma has left for the night.

Bring up wanting Hana out of Mist -- see contingencies for specifics

Because we really want to see mom again, but don't want to hurt everyone else's family (since we know how much that would hurt, and don't want them to go through that), and don't want to spring this on them in front of J. Momma was kicked out the clan for marrying Dad, then Dad died, and Hazou was the only thing she had left. She was already almost drowning in life's worries before she probably heard of his apparent death. Hazou has no idea how she has been, but is extremely worried about what Mist ANBU might do to her, and what she might do to herself. We don't think there is much tying her to Mist anymore, and we definitely don't want to take an action that will be noticed and punished, but we really want to at least do something for her. Defection seems like the best bet, but this shit is dangerous, and she might be better off there, and we just don't know what to do about it.

(O) Based on additional info from Noburi's first day, what should the team bloodline experimentation policy be? Hazou feels it should be fairly conservative, i.e. anything more invasive than simply watching Noburi work should probably be run past Inoue-sensei first, to make it harder to pressure Noburi into doing anything.

Because we don't trust him, even after he did his duty to save Akane and agreed to teach Noburi

Visit Akane if Kabuto gives the okay when we pick up Noburi

Does she have favorite songs Hazou could learn on his flute (which we can probably argue for getting out of storage)?

Because music is nice and relaxing, and also not as complicated as talking while still showing we care through acts of kindness

[Awaiting thread consensus on what exactly to say to Akane re: our feelings for her]

(O, but you probably don't want to) Game night

Strategic Domination (Hazou should avoid rolling all sixes, giving credence to the lie that Iron Nerve simply involves improved kinesthetic sense) shogi, go, maybe games that are native to Leaf?

Because we promised and it will be fun!

Before bed

Say a quiet thank you to Inoue-sensei for taking care of everyone even though we know it's stressful and apologize for jumping the gun at the hospital if it was not already addressed. Possibly include a hug. Accept any resulting hair-ruffles stoically.

Maybe it will help her feel better and also help normalize affection among the team.

(O) Follow up on Kagome stress reduction: should we get that woodworking book, or perhaps something from the Akimichi Lore series, once we get paid? Also thank him for dinner, it was delicious.

Because it seems like he might enjoy new methods for doing his favorite hobbies.

(O) Continue to spend time deliberately de-stressing and encouraging others to do so. This involves meditation, stretching, hot baths, etc.

To minimize chances of anyone losing it, and also because being stressed out is unpleasant.

If we did not do it the night before, speak to Inoue in private about flirting-focused social difficulties / emotional processing.

Because Hazou is confused about both Ino and Akane (be open about this). Asking in private so she does not have to manage other dynamics simultaneously.

Contingencies

Default to CCnJ for any nontrivial interpersonal interactions (discussing the ramifications of our prank with Ino, bringing up our romantic difficulties to Mari, suggesting we sell copies of the macerator, asking to borrow Nara's book...)

Don't piss off Leaf

Be polite to everyone we meet

Listen to our handlers and follow their (reasonable) instructions to the letter

However, CONSTANT VIGILANCE around any Leaf nin who are not Akane, Jiraiya, Team Asuma, Gai, or Lee.

Try to minimize Kagome's stress level by not making him talk too much / interact with non-teammates if he doesn't feel like it, keeping close-by, encouraging him to eat any of the nice food we get that have already been checked for poison, esp. sweets and chocolate.

Safety and Security Rules

Default to not splitting the party

Keep a watch in our room even at night

Make sure we all have whatever the local equivalent of white flags are

When in public, try to stick to areas with a reasonable number of civilians and other ninja

Combat contingencies

White tactics by default

Use any panic buttons Jiraiya has given us (none yet, sounds like)

Try to leave the city or converge on Jiraiya's office to turn ourselves in. Make sure we're doing the equivalent of waving white flags.

If we aren't able to immediately disengage, end the update for combat planning.

Assume we are being spied on at pretty much all times by multiple parties

Our desire to arrange our mom's extraction from Mist, and our concerns about how that could impact the rest of the group.

Does Inoue-sensei think this is even a feasible thing to ask with a favor, or stacked favors, given Hana's large motivation to defect to work for J specifically and the additional utility she provides to our team in the form of jounin combat strength and decades of experience?

Ask if there is anyone else we would need to extract at the same, and whether we should avoid doing so at all to avoid putting Inoue-senei's family at risk.

Any Wakahisa or Mori clan members would be more difficult to extract but also less likely to provoke huge reprisals from Yagura.

Mom would be a valuable resource, but also an addition to the team - are others okay with that idea?

If the topic of why Fire isn't a model for what Hazou wants to acheive comes up again, consider drawing from

When you asked why Fire wasn't a utopia, I was confused because you had practically just said the answer yourself: none of the major players can trust each other, because each of them consider only their own people to have any moral weight. And that is what you said, that you would sleep well after killing a foreign citizen to save a Leaf one. Not that you would consider it a necessary tragedy to protect the people you care about, and not that you would devote so much as a second of thought toward avoiding having to make that choice again in the future, and you said all your counterparts in other villages feel the same way.

When the whole world does that, then everyone looks like monsters to everyone else. At that point, it's even easier to say all foreigners are morally irrelevant, trapping the entire world in a spiral of indifference and hatred, so we get the current state of the world even from initial conditions where everyone cares about people outside their clan or their village just slightly too little. And at that point, it becomes impossible to trust one another to do things like build utopias, since all that power looks like a threat.

Which gives us the answer to your original question: the reason Fire isn't a utopia is that even though it's strong, it's not as strong as everyone else all at once, and if you withdraw resources from maintaining your current military dominance to focus on things like civilian wellbeing, other nations will see that apparent weakness as an opportunity to help their people by hurting yours, who as we've established they don't care about. Boom, the next shinobi war. And if you did anything with your vast resources that would put you on a clear trajectory to become strong enough to fight them all off at once, like letting civilians live well enough to lead to significant population growth, the entire world will throw everything they had at you, even though they'd be eviscerated afterwards and have an even harder time stalling civilization's collapse.

They'd do it even if you weren't being hostile, like the world did to Whirlpool. It's probably pretty easy to see from the reversed perspective - if Mist suddenly became insanely good at sealcrafting, and started using it to protect their civilians and grow more food and help all their citizens live comfortably, would you be glad your neighbors were growing happy and prosperous? Or would you see the impending population boom as a threat to be sabotaged and undermined? And if you find a low-risk method that sabotages your enemies' future strength without going to war, well, how could you not take it, even if it's morally horrific and accelerating the gradual downfall of the human race.

You can't build up because you would get smacked down. You can't truly work with other nations to break out of the downward spiral because you won't be trusted and won't trust them, since you both know that trust would be exploited. So Leaf ends up having to contribute to the status quo, even if you guys are better about humanizing the enemy than others, according to Akane. But it isn't working, and something has to change, or everything is going to crumble into dust, and everyone is going to die - including Leaf. So, again, will you help us?

Part of that is why we need him on board - preventing wars from breaking out while the fixing is happening, and then figuring out a way to change the incentives that result in things like distrust and scorch squads. Make it so that "cooperate" becomes the winning option even in the non-iterated case of this prisoners' dilemma. (Massively improve agriculture per area to allow consolidation of civilian population? Set up a neurtral third party to arbitrate disputes and hand out the uplift tech on the basis of good behavior?) That, or make Leaf so strong so fast that everyone's best option is to give up, but even then people won't actually be reasonable since they're scared and angry and distrustful. Even if there were a jutsu to magically restore everyone's view of each other as people deserving moral consideration, it wouldn't be anything like a permanent solution, because the cycle would start all over again.

Also, compared to slowly dying villages in the wilderness, and to some extent compared even to Kirigakure, Leaf is fairly utopian already.

Current plan for talking about rewards with Jiraiya, in case he calls us in

Most of these rewards are centered around making us stronger and better assets, so it's against Jiraya's interests to be stingy here

Check if he is okay with us discussing fairly frankly some admitted longshots first; if not, skip this section.

Kurosawa Hana

Getting her out of Kiri

Jounin taijutsu expert with huge reasons to defect to work for him specifically, and would cause Team Uplift to be stronger, safer, saner, enormously grateful, and probably more stable due to her greater experience and mediating influence.

If this is gonna start the Fourth Jashin-damned Shinobi War, obviously not worth it, and is obviously a huge ask in terms of difficulty and risk, but is this a thing we that is even on the table as far as favors, or even accumulated favors?

If not getting her out, how feasible is an attempt to get a message to her, even just "your son is alive and loves you"? In addition to or barring that, could we get information on what she is up to and what her position is in Mist?

Does any kind of pass to cross Fire borders come packaged with Akane's reinstatement and our continued loyalty?

We recognize that this is unlikely due to the need to maintain deniability, but Akane is much less of a carrot if we can't come to see her (if she does not stick with us) / will need to be able to access Leaf resources and her friends and family if she does stick with us.

If J gets smug / team gives us shit for saying we're loyal to Leaf/J, maintain that since we are loyal to Akane who is presumably loyal to Leaf, we are at least second-order loyal to them, and in any case they appear to represent the best chance at fixing things.

If J asks why we're now uncertain whether she'll stick with us, maintain that we are simply planning for all possibilities and that the choice remains hers.

Check if he is okay with us discussing some generalities of less-longshot options before asking for a specific thing

Seal designs: are these even on the table? Would he be willing to give us either an array of low-to-medium level utility seals that he thinks would contribute most to our effectiveness, or to do a deeper dive into e.g. storage seals and the extremes of what they can be used for?

Examples of utility seals ordered by preference

Communication range, especially surreptitiously

Night vision or other sensory enhancements

Advanced alarm seals

Sound muffling seals / other stealth enhancements

Self Contained Breathing Apparatus

Something that lets us breath when there is no clean, breathable air around

Eye, ear and environmental protection

Protection against bright lights and noise

Protection against extreme temperatures

Protection against gas or liquid toxicants that only require skin contact

Jutsu: he said he would get us a teacher at the end of our interactions with him in Yuni - if that no longer holds, how much is he willing to teach us now (e.g. # of techniques at particular ranks - describe the jutsu plan quoted below if prompted)

Can we safely assume we will be given / at least have the chance to buy new ninja gear and essentials, what with our old stuff being potentially biosealer-contaminated?

An up-to-date bingo book or comparable intel would also be really nice but we're not about to spend a favor on it.

Technique Hacking

Is it something we could learn from a favor?

Jiraya's analysis on its usefulness for a team like ours

Are there missions he has planned for us that he can tell us about before we make our decision?

The update should then end for a vote on our reward

The winning plan from the jutsu vote:

[X] Jutsu Hazou: Whack-a-Mole Madness

Follow Whack-A-Mole, but prioritize Tremor Sense over Nintaijutsu.

[X] Jutsu Hazou: Whack-A-Mole
"Now that you asked, I do have a short list..."

This is Hazou's jutsu preference list assuming that the winning action plan has him acquire a new jutsu.

In general, Hazou doesn't have the time the get too invested in one jutsu. He would prefer jutsu that use his general attributes instead of deep jutsu mastery to make use of the techniques. (Attribute requirements > Dice needed for usefulness)

List of Earth Jutsu Hazou wants ranked in order of preference.

Primary requirements are what we want the jutsu to have at minimum. If those requirements are not met, move to the next jutsu on the list.

Hazou also doesn't have that much chakra, so prioritize chakra efficiency over the secondary and especially over tertiary requirements. We trust J's judgement in this.

Earth Nintaijutsu

Primary requirements

Doesn't hinder mobility

Provides high damage resistance or enhanced mobility or speed

Secondary requirements

Lets us punch dangerous surfaces (Lava, acid, metal spikes, horrors beyond the realm of man etc.)

Adds to Taijutsu dice even with specialized taijutsu styles (No, we totally don't have one. Stop smirking.)

Tunneling jutsu

Primary requirements

Fast, combat useful movement underground

Secondary requirements

Ability to leave the tunnels open

Ability to vary the the size of the tunnel created

Tertiary requirements

Long distance travel without absolutely insane chakra cost

Ability to detect what is going on in the surface

Provides protection from suffocation for extended periods of time

Tremor Sense no Jutsu

Primary requirements

Ranged detection without line of sight

Usable while fighting, so no active channeling required at least for close range detection

Secondary requirements

Enables us to read opponent movement in melee combat with zero vision

Tertiary requirements

No handseals at level reachable for Hazou

Heart and respiratory detection for social awareness

Skidmark no Jutsu

Decription: A jutsu that moves a patch (or patches) of ground around very quickly; used for moving ninjas and objects around the battefield

Primary requirements

The batch of ground doesn't have to be right next to the caster at start

Ability to move at least a ninjas worth of mass on top of the patch

Secondary requirements

We can change the size of the patch of ground

The moving patch of ground is stealthy and non-obvious

Commentary (ie NOT PART OF THE PLAN, NOT EVEN A LITTLE BIT):

@OliWhail's original plan had us discussing trading the macerator, but that never happened in the update and the letter for Jiraiya has already been handed over to Sarutobi.

We need a consensus on how we're going to react to Yamanaka. As of currently, there is a placeholder there.

Seduce her to bring us under Yamanaka protection

Let her down gently for Akane's benefit

Be a stoic missing-nin, thereby getting the benefits of (1) and (2).

"You really want to know? Being a missing nin is sad. It's sad because once you're outside system, it becomes clear exactly how much time and effort is wasted on maintaining the status quo instead of helping people, even though helping people would be so easy any fresh academy grad could do it. Instead, ninja fight, and the world suffers."

Ditto for our feelings for Akane

~~What are "White tactics" listed under "Combat contigencies"?~~

I'm taking suggestions.

bayesclef said:
I'm going to spin this off into its own plan, for great modularity. I encourage someone else to take over as maintainer.

[X] Action Subplan: Library of Unknown Unknowns

Goals:

Gain general knowledge relevant to our interests

Gain knowledge relevant to running our merchant empire

Gain knowledge relevant to Hidden Heaven

Methods

Seek out a wordworking book for Kagome

Because (1) stress-reduction and (2) we'd rather not have to buy one; the freer the better

Seek out and read Elemental Nations Vol. 1,2 and 4, unless Nara is willing to lend us a copy (ask him first)

Because (1) this is good for building rapport, both by showing genuine interest in one of his interests and the Ben Franklin effect and (2) the freer the better

Seek out books that are at the root of a large knowledge tree we know nothing of.

If the library is organized by subject, ask a librarian for an introductory book on every subject we anticipate being relevant to our interests. If we're unsure whether a tree of knowledge is going to be relevant, get an introductory book and give up on it if it's looking like a tree we won't use.

Because, for all we know, there are fields of knowledge that could prove enormously useful but we don't even know they exist to study them.

Seek out books relevant to setting up a merchant empire, if we finish all above books

Economics

Geography (or caravan routes, if that book exists)

Management

Because there's a good chance we begin setting up our merchant empire before we come back to Konoha or anywhere else civilized enough to have books.

Seek out books relevant to setting up Hidden Heaven, if we finish all above books

Physics

Chemistry

Government

Because Hidden Heaven is our long-term goal.

Commentary (ie NOT PART OF THE PLAN, NOT EVEN A LITTLE BIT):

I'm having trouble phrasing what we mean by "general knowledge." We want an introductory book on every field of knowledge that may come up for us (math, physics, chemistry, biology, economics, law), but not something like poetry or philosophy.

I'm assuming librarians exist. If not, the plan needs to be reworded to reflect this.

Will some of our reading choices draw suspicion of the "are these merely-nominally-aligned missing-nin up to something that may or may not be aligned with our interests"?

We should probably have an answer prepared for "why are you interested in [book]" that is different from "we're looking to set up a merchant empire" or "we're looking to set up our own hidden village."

Hidden Heaven is sufficiently far off that the best use of our time now may not be researching for it.

I haven't marked anything as (O), since the action plan which calls this has it marked (O). I also haven't marked anything as high-priority.

Questions for our QM's, @eaglejarl and @Velorien

Do libraries organize nonfiction by subject? (Answering "yes" is both reasonable and will make this plan much easier to read.)

Will the library contains librarians who will help us find books?

Velorien · Dec 20, 2016

bayesclef said:
Questions for our QM's, @eaglejarl and @Velorien

Do libraries organize nonfiction by subject? (Answering "yes" is both reasonable and will make this plan much easier to read.)

Will the library contains librarians who will help us find books?

Yes to both.

eaglejarl · Dec 20, 2016

OliWhail said:
We should just all go work for his startup

Once we have sufficient money I'd happily hire you all. That's going to be a while, though.

Radvic said:
Maybe she should make a storage seal before leaving? They were so convenient, and Hazou made them all the time. How hard could it be?

Oh, there's no way THIS can go wrong!

Also: yaayyyy, the rest of the team is here!

{X} Plan CCnJ Activate!

hypothermic said:
So... I've been thinking about linked lists as it relates to sealing (which is to say: pointers). Linked list - Wikipedia

*reaches for the aspirin*

Dictator4Hire · Dec 20, 2016

bayesclef said:
For the first, I'm favoring @OliWhail's suggestion of answering that being outside the system throws into perspective how much energy is put into maintaining a system that could have so much less suffering but for better coordination, and being a stoic missing-nin in any further interaction. Unless it becomes clear to me this is a minority opinion, I'll edit that in tonight.

I'd rather not tell her our long term motivations as a way to break the ice. Mari will give Hazou endless amounts of grief for revealing his master plans to the first pretty girl who catches his eye. I'll write up something (I believe to be) more appropriate soon.

I'm thinking some amounts of sadness for what we had to leave behind, but also surprise at how we are now doing things like talking with Leaf ninja allies. Throw in a dash of perspective about how each day is on borrowed time, life is too short for regrets, and asking Ino how she's doing and now we got a recipe for lowkey romance goin'.

bayesclef said:
For the second, I'm favoring CCnJ, framed for low emotional turbulence. Also, that whatever we feel, now is very much not the time for us to be a relationship with anyone. Again, this will be edited into the plan unless it becomes clear it's a minority view.

Akane has been very interested in Lee for quite some time, so I'd like to see how she reacts to him visiting her in the hospital and if there is any chance those two could get together. I don't want to offload Akane onto Lee per say, but I do want to know if Akane's crush remains. Our group's love lives are complicated enough without introducing love triangles (or even more complicated shapes) into the mix.

OliWhail · Dec 20, 2016

@bayesclef thanks for keeping up on the plan. I would, as a formatting thing, suggest that asking Noburi about his bout be moved to after we have picked him back up. Perhaps at game night?

@everyone: how much time are we expecting at the library?? Because that seems like a lot of reading to try to get done in a dedicated week, let alone part of an afternoon.

Chronocide · Dec 20, 2016

{X} Plan CCnJ Activate!

Also, I don't really see the harm in telling Ino how we want to make the world better. It's vague enough not to give anyone information that's easily used against us.

We already gave the Let's Fix the World speech to J in a village full of Hyuuga (who are presumably able to read lips), so at least one major clan already knows that much of our plans.

Edit: not to mention the ANBU watching us at the time, or anyone J told, or anyone who just happened to be nearby at the time, or ROOT agents, or listening seals, or spies in Leaf, etc.

I'm all in favor of the Akane plan, but I want to specify that I think anything involving potential romantic rivals is going to be too upsetting to an injured girl with a crush.

Jello_Raptor · Dec 20, 2016

Shneddly said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you thinking of something like a hot air balloon shape? Nothing wrong with it for testing purposes, but I think dirigibles are much better for traveling long distances, being more controllable and aerodynamic.

I agree, hot air balloons shapes are just easier to build and test with in the near term.

Shneddly said:
I don't think this method is a good idea. If the implosion seal creates an instant vacuum, how do we set the dimensions to the exact interior of the balloon, so it doesn't leave air that can destroy it?

We don't. We make the container slightly smaller than the radius in which it can seal air. If the container is invulnerable there's still going to be a bit of a pop, but the inrush won't get to the seal.

If we make container slightly larger than the radius the tiny amount of air left will just quickly equalize pressure and never gather enough force to be destructive.

The inrush is caused by the large differential in pressure between the zone of vacuum and the surround air, as well as the fact that there's a functionally unbounded amount of incoming air.

Neither of these is a problem with an invulnerable container of an approximately correct size. Tiny mistakes aren't an issue.

Shneddly said:
If the seal instead sucks in air over a very short period of time, how do we stop that onrushing of air from destroying it anyway?

It doesn't. At least not if the speed of it sucking the air in is greater than the speed of sound, and we have no indication that it isn't.

Shneddly said:
Or when you open the valve, how do you stop that air from destroying the seal? Instead, I think we should make seals out of more durable materials than paper, and avoid that problem altogether.

Open the valve a tiny bit, let the pressure inside and outside equalize slowly (over minutes rather than seconds) creating no major inrush waves.

elpachosan · Dec 20, 2016

bayesclef said:
Modular Planning

The year is 20XX. Modular sealing, although a dead end, led both to modular plans, and to other research opportunities. Sealing research has yielded the Scheherazade seal, creating a simulated reality on activation. After a brief but disastrous attempt to forkbomb the seal, all plans and plan modes must contain additional plans and plan modes for each of the 509 extant realities in which Hazou now participates. As a consequence, all plans have risen dramatically in complexity.

Our last vote was three years ago, the winning plan-set from which is still being implemented to this day. During that time, we were ambushed by Orochimaru, disguised as the Akatsuki, disguised as Itachi, disguised as a Zabuza from a different layer of reality sitting on another Zabuza's shoulders and wearing a trenchcoat. Thankfully, our extensive contingency list was prepared for that exact occasion, and we escaped with minimal casualties.

After the "Flowers, Sake, Beach Trip and Hand-Forged Ring Prank" ended in disaster, all shipping was briefly voted on independently in the form of [ ] Shipping Plans. Each time the system for determining romantic aspirations has failed since then, it has been replaced with something increasingly complicated. This has happened seven times thus far. All relationships are currently chosen by majority vote of the Elder Council of the Village Hidden in the Mountain.

----

In all seriousness, it does seem like a good way to adjust other plans without having to duplicate the entire thing. It'd just require a little bit more care not to make the overall plan too unwieldy.

Radvic · Dec 20, 2016

bayesclef said:
How to deal with Yamanaka

Here's a few option:

Superiority Complex: Act like we're a big deal. Try to make Ino like us.
- "Being a missing nin isn't like being a village nin. As a village nin, the mission ends, and you go home to your family. As a missing nin, the struggle to stay alive is constant. There is no end, and you've got to rise to the challenge or die. You learn things. Hard things. Things we don't talk about, but things that help you survive."
  *stare off into the distance*
  - Because Ino likes our mysterious side
- In conversations, say less rather than more
  - Because many things are better left to the imagination
- Emphasize the darkness and seriousness of missing-nin life
  - Because emo-Hazou best Hazou.
Uplift Seed planting
- "You really want to know? Being a missing nin is sad. It's sad because once you're outside system, it becomes clear exactly how much time and effort is wasted on maintaining the status quo instead of helping people, even though helping people would be so easy any fresh academy grad could do it. Instead, ninja fight, and the world suffers."
  - Because Ino might like it, and it promotes the ideas of team uplift
- In conversations, talk about ways that everyday civilians can be helped by basic ninja things
  - Because we want to drive the point home
Bubbly Happy Man
- "You know, it's pretty great! I get to be with my friends all the time, and we're totally free! We can do whatever we want, whenever we want! There's no rules, and we're with a cool lady all the time! It's basically an endless vacation." (might need to roll deception vs. Thousand Yard Stare )
  - Because Ino is all about living free, so she'd appreciate that, but also she won't like happy go lucky man, and Akane is our one true love.
- In conversations, always emphasize the bright side of things
  - Because Ino probably won't like an optimist (based on her liking dark and mysterious people)
HAZANE ALL THE WAY!
- "You know, it was pretty great. I get to hang out and train with the ones I love, and the one I love most of all."
  *look crestfallen*
  "But now she's hurt and it's all my fault."
  *look resolved*
  "But I'm sure if I try hard enough, I can make her happy again!"
  - Because Ino's a stickler for love stories. Maybe she'll help us with Akane?
- Talk about or reference Akane as much as we can.
  - Because we're star-crossed lovers.

bayesclef said:
How to deal with Akane

Here's a few options

Full Disclosure And Flirting: HAZANE ALL THE WAY
- Next time we see her, "Hi Akane, I was thinking about what you said last time, about flirting with you, and realized I didn't know what romance is. So I thought about it, and I think I like you, and would like to flirt with you if I can figure out how. I think I like you for several reasons. First, I think you're really awesome, and wish I was more like you in several ways, specifically your optimistic demeanor and determination. Second, Whenever you say things, they just feel right to me, er, well, 95% of the time you say things they just feel right to me. Third, Your attention and approval as my apprentice make me the happiest I've been in my life, and the thought of you forgetting or hating me makes me sick. Fourth, I would do anything -er- almost anything for you. Fifth, I think you're pretty, I love your smile, and I like watching you move. So, I'm pretty sure I like you and would like to flirt with you if you know how."
  - Because aww
Full Disclosure And INAZO ALL THE WAY
- Next time we see her, "Hi Akane, so, I was thinking about you asking me if I was flirting with you, and realized I didn't know how to do it, so I'm trying to flirt with Ino until you get better. Do you have any suggestions?"
  - Because we want her to sink further into depression?
Lousy Flirting and hiding
- "So, I used to play this song for my mom or dad whenever they came home from a mission. I thought I'd pre-emptively play it for you. It always made them happy, hopefully it'll make you happy."
- Sing Coming Home song.
  - Because Akane will probably enjoy it
Delay until she gets better
- "So, we stopped by a bookstore, and I saw a few books. Would you like a book to read while you get better? The books I saw were *list books*"
  - Because books.

Spector29 · Dec 20, 2016

hypothermic said:
So... I've been thinking about linked lists as it relates to sealing (which is to say: pointers). Linked list - Wikipedia

So, when you use a storage scroll the "object" gets stored and saved in some pocket of unknown space and the seal then becomes a way to access that pocket in space. Essentially the seal is the pointer to the reference in memory, and the object stored is the "value" at that reference point.

So, with that in mind, what if instead of storing a value there (or in addition to storing a value) we stored amother pointer to a different point of reference? This, I think, will be the key to multi-storage seals. The problem of course is that seals don't and won't store other seals.

So I believe our first step to multi-seals is determining what, if anything, is the difference between an empty storage seal and a "filled" storage seal. Does the seal itself change(visual or chakra?) when it is actually storing something ie: is the memory location pre-allocated (when the seal is first written) or is it allocated only upon the activation of the scroll when it is used to store something?

Either way, determining what part of the seal stores the "address" of stored materials (far easier if the seal itself changes after storing something) could lead to a wide range of possibilities. A couple of these include:

- a 'search' scroll: if the address can be seperate from the seal itself then you could potential search for any known and active pocket (that is a filled storage scroll) and produce what is being held, deactivating that storage scroll. This would allow you to have a veritable warehouse of storage scrolls and be able to access them from anywhere and at any time, producing whatever you need to access.

-a 'stack' scroll if you can know the address of the first item you store in a multistage scroll and you can make an incremental change to address, then you can store an infinite number of things and access them in the reverse order they were inputted. Useful for storing copies of the same thing (barrels for noburi) or things that would be accessed in a specific order.

Ofc it may not work like this at all

So this is the first post I've made, despite following this quest since Chapter One.

It's a neat idea, the problem is that unless we set up some other system, the end of the linked seal list will point to NULL, which might cause problems in terms of alternate sealing dimensions.

Also, if the search scroll is ever written or activated improperly, we might run across a Segmentation Fault.

Which is probably one of those things Kagome has been screaming about since forever.

EDIT: Nevermind, I posted twice back when we were in character creation.

eaglejarl · Dec 20, 2016

Welcome back, @Spector29!

*reads @Radvic's plan for what to say to Akane*
+1 for mature relationship communication

-10,000,000 for lousy flirting

Cariyaga · Dec 20, 2016

Spector29 said:
So this is the first post I've made, despite following this quest since Chapter One.

It's a neat idea, the problem is that unless we set up some other system, the end of the linked seal list will point to NULL, which might cause problems in terms of alternate sealing dimensions.

Also, if the search scroll is ever written or activated improperly, we might run across a Segmentation Fault.

Which is probably one of those things Kagome has been screaming about since forever.

EDIT: Nevermind, I posted twice back when we were in character creation.

I was about to say, it is a perfectly-MFD-thing to make a first post in the thread a dialogue on sealing woes.

Welcome back, though!

hypothermic · Dec 20, 2016

Spector29 said:
So this is the first post I've made, despite following this quest since Chapter One.

It's a neat idea, the problem is that unless we set up some other system, the end of the linked seal list will point to NULL, which might cause problems in terms of alternate sealing dimensions.

Also, if the search scroll is ever written or activated improperly, we might run across a Segmentation Fault.

Which is probably one of those things Kagome has been screaming about since forever.

EDIT: Nevermind, I posted twice back when we were in character creation.

You're probably right about the segmentation fault, but it's been a whIle since Kagome screamed really hard. That might be fun

I'm not so sure about the Null at the end being a problem. Depending on what we find out the list could end with a "normal" storage space. Like a specialized node with no next pointer. All that would mean is that a multiseal would have to, at minimum, store 2 things.

Or we could spawn some eldritch abomination from beyond time and space. So really, it's a win win

E: it may be that pointing to NULL is also what makes a storage scroll fill itself (since filling and emptying are the same activation)

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Banned Forever

Banned Forever

Banned Forever

(Confirmed Jelly)

It Only Gets Worse From Here

Handsome Gentleperson