@eaglejarl@Velorien If I'm not mistaken, isn't it our chosen policy to allow us to adjust the plan if a chapter doesn't get all the way through it? It's one thing to see a plan not go well, it's another thing entirely to be strapped in a chair forced to watch it go wrong while being unable to do anything about it. And there are a fair number of things I wanna change with this new info.
And while I have you, the current open vote regarding what Jutsu we want kinda worryingly implies that we are going to spend an entire favor on one technique, and we also are automatically choosing that regardless of what we decide as a group. This time around, I would vastly prefer having an update involve our team reward discussion, with Hazou making his various proposals and ideas we put into the plan, and the rest of the team comments on it and what they personally desire for their favor, and what they're willing to take for the groups sake. Like, I want to know how cool the group is with options like helping our momma out.
"This is the problem. You can't build up because you would get smacked down. You won't be trusted because you can't bring yourself to trust. And you can't build a better future because you're bound by your fear of the past.
"And the reason you don't see a different world? Everyone with power, the movers and shakers you just mentioned. They have a good thing going. Making things better means changing things and changing things is scary. Changing things means a possibility of loss. Even if your personal power is built on the suffering of thousands, those thousands are faraway and hidden, and those you care about are near and visible.
"Things are the way they are because the status quo is easy.
I like the omake but I think this is a bit too surface level. You basically state what the current decision makers think, but don't elaborate why they think that way.
The why being: The current villages are optimized for survival against other hostile villages. If they weren't, they would not have survived to this day.
Then we need to bring up the prisoner's dilemma part that @ClawClawBite mentioned: They can't optimize to other directions, because that would require them to weaken themselves against the other villages.
If Konoha didn't demonize the other villages, their ninjas wouldn't fight as hard against their enemies and then Konoha would die.
If Konoha didn't hoard its technology and keep it a secret, the village would not keep its unique advantages and then Konoha would die.
If Konoha didn't actively undermine the other villages, they would get stronger and then Konoha would die.
Only way for a village to get out of this, is for all the other villages to commit to the change and not pursue temporary advantages in any of these areas. That, or the village has to rise so high above the others in power that they can't hope to challenge it.
This is all kinda present in your omake, at least in the background, but I think it should be brought more to the surface and perhaps explicitly stated somewhere.
Speaking of Omake, I've been sitting on this one for a while...
OMAKE: How Konoha Happened
Madara internally groaned.
They had been planning this raid on the Senju for weeks.
Weeks!
He had taken special care in his planning to avoid any and all contact. It was supposed to be a silent infiltration. Get in, steal as many scrolls from the Senju library as they could carry, get out. Done.
And then there was this guy.
"Hey, Maddie. Watcha doin'?"
Fuck this guy. Fuck him, and fuck his stupid grin.
"Robbing you."
Senju Hasirama burst into laughter. "Aw, man," he said, wiping away a tear, "you're such a riot, Maddie."
"I can easily add 'murder' to my agenda."
Hashirama gave him a look that clearly said "I can see through your mask of antagonism.", which was especially annoying since it wasn't a mask.
"Looking for a spar, eh? Sure. I can spare a few minutes."
"No I-" Madara started. And then stopped, as he realised that Hashirama had just given him carte blanc to beat his face in. "...yes. Yes I am."
Hashirama positively beamed. "Alright, but just to warn you: I've improved by a larch amount since we last sparred!"
What was he... oh Sage-damnit!
Madara rushed forwards, his sharingan flickering into place. The world came into sharp focus and slow motion, letting Madara step around the thorny vines springing out of the earth with contemptuous ease.
"Wow Maddie! Those eyes of yours are a real pine to fight!"
"Fire Element: Deforestation."
As all the plant matter in a hundred metre radius burned to ashes, Madara spun into an axe kick aimed right at Hasirama's neck.
There was a splashing noise.
"Phew! That was close! But thanks to my water clone, I'm A-Oak-kay!"
Fuck. This. Guy.
Madara threw a dozen shuriken at where he heard the voice from, even as he turned. He leapt into another kick (it's good to keep your hands free for jutsu or weapons), and just about dodged the tree that had erupted into his path. He kicked off from a branch, throwing another salvo of shuriken, and with a few handseals, coated them in flame.
"Wuh!" Hasirama grunted and he dodged them, "This fight is getting to be a real birch! I'd better spruce up my training regime!"
Madara finally snapped.
"One more pun, Senju! One more! And I swear to Indra I will shove my sword right up your ash!"
His face crumpled in horror as he realised what he'd just said. At the same moment, Hashirama's split in glee.
"No..." Madara fell to his knees. "You... You've corrupted me... Somehow..."
Hashirama, still stifling laughter, waltzed over and gave Madara a hug.
Speaking of Omake, I've been sitting on this one for a while...
OMAKE: How Konoha Happened
Madara internally groaned.
They had been planning this raid on the Senju for weeks.
Weeks!
He had taken special care in his planning to avoid any and all contact. It was supposed to be a silent infiltration. Get in, steal as many scrolls from the Senju library as they could carry, get out. Done.
And then there was this guy.
"Hey, Maddie. Watcha doin'?"
Fuck this guy. Fuck him, and fuck his stupid grin.
"Robbing you."
Senju Hasirama burst into laughter. "Aw, man," he said, wiping away a tear, "you're such a riot, Maddie."
"I can easily add 'murder' to my agenda."
Hashirama gave him a look that clearly said "I can see through your mask of antagonism.", which was especially annoying since it wasn't a mask.
"Looking for a spar, eh? Sure. I can spare a few minutes."
"No I-" Madara started. And then stopped, as he realised that Hashirama had just given him carte blanc to beat his face in. "...yes. Yes I am."
Hashirama positively beamed. "Alright, but just to warn you: I've improved by a larch amount since we last sparred!"
What was he... oh Sage-damnit!
Madara rushed forwards, his sharingan flickering into place. The world came into sharp focus and slow motion, letting Madara step around the thorny vines springing out of the earth with contemptuous ease.
"Wow Maddie! Those eyes of yours are a real pine to fight!"
"Fire Element: Deforestation."
As all the plant matter in a hundred metre radius burned to ashes, Madara spun into an axe kick aimed right at Hasirama's neck.
There was a splashing noise.
"Phew! That was close! But thanks to my water clone, I'm A-Oak-kay!"
Fuck. This. Guy.
Madara threw a dozen shuriken at where he heard the voice from, even as he turned. He leapt into another kick (it's good to keep your hands free for jutsu or weapons), and just about dodged the tree that had erupted into his path. He kicked off from a branch, throwing another salvo of shuriken, and with a few handseals, coated them in flame.
"Wuh!" Hasirama grunted and he dodged them, "This fight is getting to be a real birch! I'd better spruce up my training regime!"
Madara finally snapped.
"One more pun, Senju! One more! And I swear to Indra I will shove my sword right up your ash!"
His face crumpled in horror as he realised what he'd just said. At the same moment, Hashirama's split in glee.
"No..." Madara fell to his knees. "You... You've corrupted me... Somehow..."
Hashirama, still stifling laughter, waltzed over and gave Madara a hug.
[x] Action Plan: Making Acquaintances
Goals:
Stay alive.
Get some barbecue with Team Asuma.
Hear the story of the chunin exams.
Contingencies:
-Try to prevent anyone from mentioning Choji's weight.
-If they do, do our best to deescalate the situation.-Deescalate any arguments that arise, particularly between Keiko and Shikamaru.
-Talk to Ino about how impressed we were by the Yamanaka in Jiraiya's company who we met. Express how vital we think the Yamanaka are/have the potential to be in healing sick minds and generating collaboration and empathy.
-Don't talk about their clans if they seem like that's always what people talk to them about.
-Don't bug Asuma about being the Hokage's son.
-Express our genuine gratitude for how Jiraiya has handled us if it comes up.
This plan is awful. Watch and learn.
[X] Action Plan: Figure out our handlers
Goals:
Stay alive.
Get some barbecue with Team Asuma.
Hear the story of the chunin exams.
Contingencies:
-Choji's weight is unusuall for a career as physically active as a ninja. We should ask about.
-If we don't have arguments now they'll happen later. Best to get the bad air out of the way sooner rather than later.
-The mindreading technique is really some thing, but what have the Yamanaka done recently?
-If people often speak to about their clans its likely that they're very good in those conversations. Refer to them as often as possible in order to let them have an easy conversation.
-Asuma is the Hokage's son. I bet he has lots of great stories.
--If there's a lull in the conversation, bring up how Jiraiya must either really trust us to assign a team inferior to us in strength, with 4 future clan heads on it to guard us, or somebody should start worrying about who's next in line and what dirt they have on the J man..
I'll consider changing my vote to your plan if you change
to "-If there's a lull in the conversation, bring up how Jiraiya must either really trust us to assign a team inferior to us in strength, with 4 future clan heads on it to guard us, or somebody should start worrying about who's next in line and what dirt they have on the J man."
and insist on ramen instead of bbq.
TBH, it's not a great story. Naruto seems incapable of understanding that constantly being a prick to everyone around you isn't a good idea, and his authority figures alternate between encouraging this behaviour and savagely ripping into him for it.
There's some competence and cleverness there, which is the main redeeming feature, but I didn't enjoy the story as a whole.
I only mention it because it had a scene where Naruto asks Choji "What good exactly is a fat ninja?" and promptly gets socially bitch-slapped for his rudeness.
TBH, it's not a great story. Naruto seems incapable of understanding that constantly being a prick to everyone around you isn't a good idea, and his authority figures alternate between encouraging this behaviour and savagely ripping into him for it.
There's some competence and cleverness there, which is the main redeeming feature, but I didn't enjoy the story as a whole.
I only mention it because it had a scene where Naruto asks Choji "What good exactly is a fat ninja?" and promptly gets socially bitch-slapped for his rudeness.
Is that because you'll be busy or because you're choosing not to? If the latter, please do keep proposing things. You had a good plan, it was just big.
For the record, voting is open. You can continue with the existing plan or come up with something new.
Okay, here's my plan again with some additions from the ones made by @Jello_Raptor and @Dictator4Hire. It is a long plan so don't expect me to list everything that has been changed; just read the damn thing.
Especially read the rewards carefully, I would like us to pick those now so we can focus on other things in the next vote. If there's a discussion to be had we can do it while J is around. He already knows everything about our capabilities anyway.
@eaglejarl@Velorien How do you want to handle us asking for jutsu/sealcraft? We don't know what J has to offer and it feels kinda awkward deciding when we don't even know the options. Should we make a proposal now, get a counter proposal in the update, and then make the actual decision in the next update? Or maybe do one of those "You get a jutsu!" and then we retroactively vote for what it is?
The plan is also pushing for turning Keiko into our face, if that is not something you don't want to see, now is the time.
Hazou and Keiko are going to try and learn new things this update. I'm not sure what is useful to us and how to divide the labor, so I'm open to change what I currently have there.
@Radvic (and everyone else too) Did you want to discuss something else with J in addition to the stuff I now have there? I'm not really sure what else we can do now but agree with whatever he says.
As usual, ping me if you want something changed. I'm confident there are plenty of errors still there.
[X] Action Plan: In the Shadow of Leaf
Goals
Do as we are told and keep Jiraya happy
Check up on Akane
Agree on rewards
Start training
Don't cause an incident
Methods
Continue the discussion with Jiraya
About the high order thing he got so excited about during the debrief
How likely is it that we are going to get killed to make sure that we don't spread it around?
How are you going to ensure that doesn't happen?
Is the Hokage likely to do that? If not, are his aides/confidants/minions/rivals going to act independently?
What about the people you are going to give it to?
Is this going to happen every time we come up with a new stuff? What are you going to give us to incentivize further creativity?
Why did J want us in Leaf and how long do we actually have to rest before are getting stabbed again?
Does he know other people who are up to changing the world
Preferably the sort of people J has a hard time interacting with because of who he is or who they are?
Did Jiraya get the paralytic sample? We have no idea about its potency but it should be with our stuff.
Haggle for rewards
Most of these rewards are centered around making us stronger and better assets, so it's against Jiraya's interests to be stingy here
Hazou's suggested list of rewards, ordered by priority
Medical training for Nobby for the foreseeable future
An ongoing deal where Nobby gets access and training in Leaf's medical facilities when he asks for it
Konoha has the best mednin around, this should be an easy thing to do
It is very important since it keeps us alive and opens new angles of attack
Information on our families in Mist
Is mom still in active duty? Prisoner? Alive?
Whatever the others want to know
Free Pass to cross Fire borders
This should come packaged with Akane's reinstatement
Akane is not much of a carrot if we can't come to see her
MechApt specialization for Akane
Naturally don't decide this until Akane wakes up and has had her say
She needs something to pass the time
Get a tutor and reading materials
Mist generation jutsu for Nobby and Mari
You do have water ninjutsu specialists in Fire, right?
The jutsu needs to create actual mist instead of a chakra construct
Or just Mari if Nobby is busy
New Sealcraft for Kagome and Hazou
As long as higher priority rewards have been satisfied, get as many seals as we possibly can
We showed you ours, now show us yours!
There's a very good chance we will make improvements, we can kick those back at you for reasonable compensation
Priority on what Kagome deems necessary
Hazou specific sealcraft requests:
Wide approach (Hazou's preferred option)
Multiple low-to-med utility stuff for ninja operatives
Examples in order of priority
Communication devices
Advanced alarm seals
SCBA
Night vision
Eye/ear protection
Sound muffling seals
Deep approach
One heavy specialization
Everything Jiraya has on storage scrolls
Earth Jutsu for Hazou
Didn't you agree to this last time?
Hazou has room for two 10 dice jutsu
Some ideas, use training plan vote to decide
Tunneling jutsu
Personal combat tunneling
Tunnel building for out of combat
Sensory jutsu (Tremor Sense, See Through Stone, etc.)
Nintaijutsu (Doomu, Earth Fist etc.)
Ranged attack with a roll tied to another skill or attribute
An up-to-date bingo book or comparable intel
I can't believe we didn't ask for this last time
New ninja gear and essentials, our old ones are rather contaminated
Talk to Nobby and Keiko about changing our main Diplomancer
Talk to Nobby first
Our reasoning
High level Diplomacy is really hard, and Nobby is already pursuing two other hard subjects (Medicine, Water Jutsu)
Keiko will have to learn to maneuver social situations with the pangolins anyway
Vampiric Dew and keeping out of sight go so well together
"I am not blinded by the fog of war, Hazou. I am the fog of war. A team mysteriously vanishes in the forest, and you think that of me? No, I am the one who makes them vanish!"
It would be nice if our only medic wouldn't be the most obvious target to attack in the party
Our emotions
Nobby is an incredible ninja and has nothing to prove to anyone
He is obviously the most socially adept out of the genin, but that goes for his chakra control and potential as a ninjutsu specialist too
It is his call, job designation won't work in the long run if people are not 100% behind them
If Nobby agreed, talk to Keiko
Figure out with Nobby how to sell the idea to Keiko
It sucks for the moment, but it'll synergize really well with her pangolins.
Some of her best friends are giant insectivore armored tanks. Even when she's not talking to the pangolins directly better social skills will allow her to capitalize on the fear and respect that inspires.
Her bloodline is pretty kickass, but social skills are its big failure mode. If she can get good at diplomacy she can start using them together to be even better at analysis.
She might be able to go full psychohistory in the future.
We've got her back and know she can do this if she wants to
Meet our minders
Try to get along with them
Use them for social practice
Keiko
Try to build bridges and make nice with them (Diplomacy)
Hazou
Create an extra youthful personality, and see how long it takes them to see through it (Deception)
When they do, swap to a muted personality that is really depressed and negative
When they call us out on that, apologize and tell them that we needed the practice
Ask to spar with them a bit to assess their skills to cultivate our bonds of YOUTH!
Keep Nobby water ninjutsu a secret, only have Hazou and Keiko do sparring
Maybe do team spars if that seems fairer, or more interesting?
Only use standard skills and academy jutsu
No chakra boosting or combat styles
Give our minders advice on how to interact with Kagome
Don't interact with Kagome
If you do, do it from far away
No sudden movements
Don't seem suspicious
Don't ask any questions
Check on Akane
Bring flowers
Tell her about Jiraya's unilateral decision to reinstate her
Don't push for a decision about sticking with us
It is a big question, and her recuperation will take time, she has time
Discuss rewards with her (see rewards section)
Ask Jiraya to deliver Nobby's spare barrel
He can't train properly without one, and he is not building one while in Leaf
Ask for the one stored in the medical clinic at Iron
Ask for the broken barrel too (It was a good barrel!)
See if he can't find a backpack or similar disguise for it. Nothing to change it's functionality, just some way to cover it up and hide what it is.
Communicate Hazou's feelings to Keiko
Use clear communication no jutsu.
"Keiko, I'm trying to be helpful and yes that means stating the obvious sometimes. It's not meant to imply that you haven't thought of these things, just that I think it's important."
"I would appreciate if you stop being snippy just because I mention some step that you think is blindingly obvious."
"Mind you, correcting my mistakes, and overruling me when you think I'm wrong is important and neccesary. I just feel hurt by the personal jabs you make when I am trying to use a mode of communication that requires trust and mutual goodwill."
Go out and explore Konoha
Akane
Get better
If able, read MechApt specialization books and get tutored
Noburi
Med-nin Intern Quest
If medical training is not available, join New Team Talky on their excursions
Mari
Socialize with the older Leaf ninjas
Ply her trade
Plow some jounin
You know, Mari stuff
Kagome
Learn new Sealing stuff!
Preferably somewhere close to the team and no other people around
I'm sure they have a library an old grumpy man we can poke with a stick somewhere
I doubt Kagome is the first insane sealmaster they have entertained
Hazou + Keiko (The New Team Talky)
"Keiko! We are going to go out and make friends!"
Talk to civilians and low level ninjas
Learn about Konoha, its people, and the relationship between ninjas and civilians
Start with our minders
Some tour options
Hazou is craving ramen. (The hivemind wills it)
Those hole in the places/tiny pop-up stands are the best.
Take a tour of the historical sights, see what stories Konona like to tell about itself to itself.
War Memorial
If we have a tour guide/minder, ask them about it.
Hokage Monument
If we have a tour guide/minder, ask them about why the monument was created? what should we know about each Hokage.
There are hot springs, I'm sure we could all use a relaxing soak.
Everyone should probably take an extra towel to whip any peeping toms.
Inoue is free to use genjutsu if she wants.
Take a look a weapons shops.
Keiko could use something exotic as a gift to Panchipaama?
Our standard kit could probably use a sharpen and polish.
Hit the library
If there's no public library, see if we can get our minders to get us access to books we're interested in
Get a general idea of what sort of text there are available (or not available)
Focus on different topics so you can teach them to other party members after leaving Leaf
Hazou's focus
Natural philosophy with an emphasis on mathematics, physics and chakra laws
Political philosophy and its history
Keiko's focus
Law, Konoha specific and international
International trade and agreements
"We don't want another DMZ incident."
Nobby's focus (If she is not busy with medical training)
Agriculture, Biology, Botany, Chakra Beasts
Contingencies
Don't piss off Leaf
Be polite to everyone we meet
Listen to our handlers and follow their instructions to the letter
Don't give the Yamanaka a reason to scan us.
Politely ask, if we are allowed, under what conditions the Yamanaka will scan us so that we might not necessitate that happening. Explain that we have clan reasons for not wanting our brains perused by a new ally.
"We have a variety of mental conditions from bloodlines to paranoia which we believe may cause discomfort or harm to mind reading attempts."
Safety and Security Rules
Politely but firmly insist that we want to wear veils or something similar to obscure our faces from prying eyes. We know it won't be enough to deter someone like a Hyuuga, but it might help in case there are any Mist spies in Leaf passively looking for their missing-nin
Never be in a group of less than two (Except for Mari)
Keep a watch in our rooms even at night
Make sure we all have whatever the local equivalent of white flags are
Try to stay in public areas with a reasonable number of civilians and other ninja
Combat contingencies
White tactics only
Use any panic buttons Jiraiya has given us
Try to leave the city or converge on Jiraiya's office to turn ourselves in. If trying to turn ourselves in, make sure we're waving our white flags.
Assume we are being spied on at all times by multiple hostile parties
Ask for a way to contact J or his trusted agent fast if we get in trouble
A panic button: Colored fireworks, sealing based solution, or something quick like that
A slower but more covert way: a deadrop, a trusted messenger, preferably something outside Konoha's standard military structure
